Once such an alliance felt strong enough to move against the snakes, they'd certainly also feel strong enough to move against the world in general or heroes specifically.
Yeah but super hero stuff works largely the same way pro-wrestling does. Alliances never last long enough to "take over the whole WWF".
Certainly a good point. Going past the time frame that would apply to what I originally stated, Psi is a group already known to use "telepathic tailoring" on others. It would not be a stretch for them to attempt to take over the whole group that way, leading to its downfall; I doubt Argent would allow that, for example, which would end up putting them in the same boat they were before.
This kind of screams "series of mission" (old-style instances or queue-style stuff) where the groups get together to fight VIPER, realize the other members' duplicity, and break up into separate factions again. Serious possibilities there, but I doubt it would specifically fit into the Q-zone content.
How about Eurostar or another major super villain team, as a final showdown?
Viper are cool I guess, but I can't help but also think of Cobra and Hydra and to me, those kinds of agent class enemies are, no matter how well equipped and trained, ultimately cannon fodder for real super heroes. Sure, there will be some Viper Bosses and Viper Super Villains and paid Mercenary Super Villains working for viper on a temp basis, but even most of those guys are only a threat due to the forces they can bring to bear on a geographical area or community, like.. well, like a villainous army of terrorists are. Not like a Super Villain or a team of super villains.
I read, "Hydra takes over a small country" and I think "The Avengers roll in and kick a bunch of ****, some people unfortunately don't survive but the heroes did all they could, case closed".
Hydra= Viper, and Avengers = any solid group of player heroes in Champions.
I read, "The Masters of Evil take over a small town and hold it's citizens hostage" and I think, "Oh crap."
Not a bad point. Could be used in future content updates. TAKE NOTE, CRYPTIC!!!
as for the moaning, it's already going on ingame. It's more quilothic stuff what solo stuff is there?what it's all group what are the rewards? is that all
Well, y'know. It is more Qliphotic stuff, it is team content, and the rewards are hellish. None of which would have been on top of anyone sensible's list of "things we'd like next". But that's become boring in and of itself. They've stretched the budget for an event lair into a mini zone, and that's good, even if the zone lacks any comparison to the others in terms of construction, detail and finess.
The Mystical angle in CO exists as the reason for why superheroes and superpowers exist, and that's OK, it should be prominent. But the Qliphotic is supposed to be Hell, the ultimate in terror and suffering, not somewhere you can walk through with the right gear. There are supposed to be an infinite number of planes capable of bleeding into the Champions universe, so some new stuff would be nice. Probably cost too much, though...
This kind of screams "series of mission" (old-style instances or queue-style stuff) where the groups get together to fight VIPER, realize the other members' duplicity, and break up into separate factions again. Serious possibilities there, but I doubt it would specifically fit into the Q-zone content.
Yeah but super [villain] stuff works largely the same way pro-wrestling does. Alliances never last long enough to "take over the whole WWF".
The relevant trope here is Villain Team Up. As the TVTropes entry notes, such team-ups often fail because villains, naturally, don't trust each other. (Heck, there's an entire subtrope devoted to occurrences of this in comics...)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
" But the Qliphotic is supposed to be Hell, the ultimate in terror and suffering, not somewhere you can walk through with the right gear. "
No, no it isn't.
In fact, Qliphoth is explicitly NOT Hell or A hell, it is much, much worse than that. Moreover, the area we visit in the game isn't actually Qliphoth at all, it's a staging area created by Luthor Black, over decades, all in his bid to gain anti-God level powers. This staging area was specifically created so that living creatures from reality could interact with Qliphothic anti-life entities and not be driven insane nor always warped beyond comprehension. Black ultimately failed, due to "a plucky band of heroes intervention", as you know, but the "safe" landing zone he worked so hard to create still exists.
Qliphoth is much more thematically analogous to a magical variation of the Negative zone from Marvel comics, or a really eviler version of the Phantom Zone in DC, and is more like a "home of Chtulhu and all his pantheon of treats".
Hell is at least a part of the natural order of creation and destruction and the cycle of rebirth, Qliphoth is literally the absolute antithesis of reality and everything in it. Even hell and the Devils and Demons from it want nothing to do with and would rail against Qliphothic encroachment.
Yeah but super [villain] stuff works largely the same way pro-wrestling does. Alliances never last long enough to "take over the whole WWF".
The relevant trope here is Villain Team Up. As the TVTropes entry notes, such team-ups often fail because villains, naturally, don't trust each other. (Heck, there's an entire subtrope devoted to occurrences of this in comics...)
Like in the Vibora Apocalypse. Dr. Destroyer helps Therakiel.... but only so that he can betray and destroy him later.
It would be great to have a rampage against a really tough team of villains where you have to watch for multple mechanics tricks going on at the same time. Eurostar would be perfect for that, and so would the Crowns (if we weren't oversaturated in occult villains/organizations).
Not to mention magic isn't really the only reason superpowers exist in the Champions world. this fact is conveniently overlooked too often.
I mean.. isn't it tho? I remember someone explaining that all super powers do in fact come from magic or something. Maybe they will show up and clarify.
It would be great to have a rampage against a really tough team of villains where you have to watch for multple mechanics tricks going on at the same time. Eurostar would be perfect for that, and so would the Crowns (if we weren't oversaturated in occult villains/organizations).
I would actually like an encounter where we are fighting multiple mega villains, and we can actually try to make them hit each other with their attacks and if we do it good enough they turn on each other for a bit. Would be neat if, when we're getting close to making them turn on each other they start saying stuff like "DANGIT! Watch where you're shooting that!". Then when they start fighting the fight changes into us just trying to avoid all the nonsense and insanity shooting off from them while they pound each other for a bit before reconciling and going after us again.
I remember someone explaining that all super powers do in fact come from magic or something. Maybe they will show up and clarify.
As I understand it, and simplifying dramatically, the occult ritual during WWII went awry and basically broke physics, making superpowers possible. Not all superpowers come from that magic directly - the vast majority of them result from the broken physics, making "impossible" things routine for a handful of people. Happifun Security System X-4 is a robot, not a golem; the only influence of magic at all is the fact that the altered physics make its power systems and AI possible in the first place.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
It would be great to have a rampage against a really tough team of villains where you have to watch for multiple mechanics tricks going on at the same time. Eurostar would be perfect for that, and so would the Crowns (if we weren't oversaturated in occult villains/organizations).
Or maybe the Destroyers, Dr. D's loyal supervillain elite. Gigaton and Rakshasa are already in the game, after all. Likewise the members of Red Winter. Or the Ultimates, another venerable Champions villainous crew who could use some shine. Or Sunburst and his followers. Or Kinematik and his followers. Or more of VIPER's Dragon Branch.
There really are a lot of candidates to draw from, without dipping back into the magic pool.
for those wanting to see about the 'God' of Viper, download the PDF, Viper- coils of the serpent.
It has a lot in it about the background, from stone age times through to modern.
As I understand it, and simplifying dramatically, the occult ritual during WWII went awry and basically broke physics, making superpowers possible. Not all superpowers come from that magic directly - the vast majority of them result from the broken physics, making "impossible" things routine for a handful of people. Happifun Security System X-4 is a robot, not a golem; the only influence of magic at all is the fact that the altered physics make its power systems and AI possible in the first place.
It's a silly conceit that deserves to be ignored when you have a bunch of hi-tech and aliens and interdimensionals running around. "Super-powers" don't have to have common origin, and it's needlessly restrictive to do so.
I'm only arguing against the idea, not the messenger, of course.
The periodic waxing and waning of magic in the CU was an enabling device to explain why we suddenly had superhumans appear in 1938 (the same year Superman debuted in comics in the real world), and more broadly, why there were eras in the past and future when such extraordinary things were possible, and others when the world was more like the one we all live in. That was how Hero Games management chose to fit all the different settings they wanted to do into a single timeline (a decision often debated by the fan base).
I think the word, "magic," is what a lot of folks have trouble with, because gamers in particular have very strong preconceptions about what magic "really" is (which is an amusing conceit in itself). If the Hero Games guys had chosen to label their reality-bending device "cosmic energy" or "quantum flux" or the like, I doubt we'd hear as many concerns raised. But aside from preconceptions, there's nothing less inherently generic about magic than any of those other things.
It's a silly conceit that deserves to be ignored when you have a bunch of hi-tech and aliens and interdimensionals running around. "Super-powers" don't have to have common origin, and it's needlessly restrictive to do so.
I'm only arguing against the idea, not the messenger, of course.
Noted and appreciated. You absolutely have a right to your opinion, and to not like that choice of device. Truth to tell, I'm not overly fond of it myself. But in practical terms, the only restriction inherent in the magic effect comes from an individual's perception of it. The official characters from the game have all the diverse origins and power sources you see in mainstream comics; and the PnP books reiterate that the things that are not called magic, are not magic. Magic just made the laws of our reality more flexible.
Where is this new social zone? ive been looking everywhere for it...
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
The periodic waxing and waning of magic in the CU was an enabling device to explain why we suddenly had superhumans appear in 1938 (the same year Superman debuted in comics in the real world), and more broadly, why there were eras in the past and future when such extraordinary things were possible, and others when the world was more like the one we all live in. That was how Hero Games management chose to fit all the different settings they wanted to do into a single timeline (a decision often debated by the fan base).
I think the word, "magic," is what a lot of folks have trouble with, because gamers in particular have very strong preconceptions about what magic "really" is (which is an amusing conceit in itself). If the Hero Games guys had chosen to label their reality-bending device "cosmic energy" or "quantum flux" or the like, I doubt we'd hear as many concerns raised. But aside from preconceptions, there's nothing less inherently generic about magic than any of those other things.
For some reason, people think magic always involves robes...
The periodic waxing and waning of magic in the CU was an enabling device to explain why we suddenly had superhumans appear in 1938 (the same year Superman debuted in comics in the real world), and more broadly, why there were eras in the past and future when such extraordinary things were possible, and others when the world was more like the one we all live in. That was how Hero Games management chose to fit all the different settings they wanted to do into a single timeline (a decision often debated by the fan base).
I think the word, "magic," is what a lot of folks have trouble with, because gamers in particular have very strong preconceptions about what magic "really" is (which is an amusing conceit in itself). If the Hero Games guys had chosen to label their reality-bending device "cosmic energy" or "quantum flux" or the like, I doubt we'd hear as many concerns raised. But aside from preconceptions, there's nothing less inherently generic about magic than any of those other things.
For some reason, people think magic always involves robes...
Comments
This kind of screams "series of mission" (old-style instances or queue-style stuff) where the groups get together to fight VIPER, realize the other members' duplicity, and break up into separate factions again. Serious possibilities there, but I doubt it would specifically fit into the Q-zone content.
It's more quilothic stuff
what solo stuff is there?what it's all group
what are the rewards? is that all
Well, y'know. It is more Qliphotic stuff, it is team content, and the rewards are hellish. None of which would have been on top of anyone sensible's list of "things we'd like next". But that's become boring in and of itself. They've stretched the budget for an event lair into a mini zone, and that's good, even if the zone lacks any comparison to the others in terms of construction, detail and finess.
The Mystical angle in CO exists as the reason for why superheroes and superpowers exist, and that's OK, it should be prominent. But the Qliphotic is supposed to be Hell, the ultimate in terror and suffering, not somewhere you can walk through with the right gear. There are supposed to be an infinite number of planes capable of bleeding into the Champions universe, so some new stuff would be nice. Probably cost too much, though...
Yep, that'd be why the reuse assets rather than making a bunch of new ones.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
In fact, Qliphoth is explicitly NOT Hell or A hell, it is much, much worse than that. Moreover, the area we visit in the game isn't actually Qliphoth at all, it's a staging area created by Luthor Black, over decades, all in his bid to gain anti-God level powers. This staging area was specifically created so that living creatures from reality could interact with Qliphothic anti-life entities and not be driven insane nor always warped beyond comprehension. Black ultimately failed, due to "a plucky band of heroes intervention", as you know, but the "safe" landing zone he worked so hard to create still exists.
Qliphoth is much more thematically analogous to a magical variation of the Negative zone from Marvel comics, or a really eviler version of the Phantom Zone in DC, and is more like a "home of Chtulhu and all his pantheon of treats".
Hell is at least a part of the natural order of creation and destruction and the cycle of rebirth, Qliphoth is literally the absolute antithesis of reality and everything in it. Even hell and the Devils and Demons from it want nothing to do with and would rail against Qliphothic encroachment.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
I mean.. isn't it tho? I remember someone explaining that all super powers do in fact come from magic or something. Maybe they will show up and clarify.
Or like when these two villains teamed up to try to take over
I would actually like an encounter where we are fighting multiple mega villains, and we can actually try to make them hit each other with their attacks and if we do it good enough they turn on each other for a bit. Would be neat if, when we're getting close to making them turn on each other they start saying stuff like "DANGIT! Watch where you're shooting that!". Then when they start fighting the fight changes into us just trying to avoid all the nonsense and insanity shooting off from them while they pound each other for a bit before reconciling and going after us again.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
There really are a lot of candidates to draw from, without dipping back into the magic pool.
It has a lot in it about the background, from stone age times through to modern.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I'm only arguing against the idea, not the messenger, of course.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I think the word, "magic," is what a lot of folks have trouble with, because gamers in particular have very strong preconceptions about what magic "really" is (which is an amusing conceit in itself).
Courage is doing what is right even when it isn't popular or safe. Honor is retaining the dignity and virtue in one's self, so it can light the way for others in the darkest of times. Compassion is showing patience and mercy towards others, even when it isn't returned or deserved. A hero is defined by these 3 words, they set him apart from others as a beacon of hope and excellence.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
My characters
level 40 zone, not social.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.