Pet Revamp/Overhaul

soulforger

Pet Revamp/Overhaul:

Right now pets are only effective against certain low level enemies. Against anything with AOEs or Cosmics, they are useless and worthless. The goal of this overhaul is to make pets usable in all content. This will be done in several different ways. First, let’s list a few downsides of pets.

1. Squishy: Pets have low hit points, even with the spec, and low resistance, resulting in them dying with ease, even against AOEs, which pets have higher resistance against.
2. Bad AI: Let’s be honest, most AI in this game is rather dumb. Pets are more noticeable than others though.
3. Overall, not worth the effort in high end content. Kiga heals on deaths, this includes pets. Dino one shots pets, Ape one shots pets, I guarantee that the next Cosmic(s) will also one shot pets. Meaning the toon that is a minion master (summons multiple pets), has lower damage over all, plus the other issues listed above.

So, how do we go about correcting this? Well, there are many different approaches we can take, but today, we’ll focus on my proposal. Below you’ll find the changes that I am suggesting.

1. First, pets will be split between permanent and temporary pet types. And a player can only have one permanent pet out at a time. It’ll be like Energy Builders and Energy Unlocks, can only select one of them. Of course to give the temporary options to players the devs will need to make copies of all pet powers in the game and make them temporary versions that last 30secs each. The permanent pet will deal less damage than the temporary pets will, but will always be out, where ‘as the temporary pets will have Cool Downs of 40 to 45 seconds, ignoring Cool Down Reduction so people just don’t keep summoning a pet before the timer runs out.
2. Make it so pets are immune to all crowd control and damage, in fact, remove their hit points. And while we are at it, remove their collision detection of players and each other so that they don’t take up space on cosmics and other enemies. This will greatly increase their usability in cosmic fights. Of course that leaves just one problem…
3. Fix the AI so they attack your target only and never wonder off target to attack something else. Or fix their AI so that they attack only the target you had selected when you summoned them. And, make it so that if the player pushes the pets summon power again they desummon the pet. Just in case something goes wrong and attacks the wrong target anyway (like on the Ape, if they start attacking a heart for some reason, you can desummon them.) Alternatively, since the damage from pets are more along the lines of dot damage with this overhaul, give them an advantage that causes them to NOT break crowd control effects. Another thing we can do to make them smarter is have them use their powers on their own instead of having to wait on the player to press a button. Of course for toggles (such as the muni bots and support drones have for changing forms) they will remain as something that is player activated. For support toons make the AI attack the target of the support’s target (if targeting a player).
4. If the above changes took place pets would be usable in all content, not just alerts.

The biggest obstacle I see to a revamp/overhaul of pets is time and money. But feel free to talk about the proposed changes.

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pantagruel01

soulforger said:

2. Make it so pets are immune to all crowd control and damage, in fact, remove their hit points.

While there are effects like this in the game (e.g. fire snake, ball lightning, collective will), the whole concept of a pet is that it's more than just animation for a DoT.

theravenforce

A pet master style build, should probably still be viable. I'd say at best two permanent pet powers, which you allocate and then anything else is temporary.

I do agree that generally speaking the way pets are implemented needs to be looked at, but there should be some sort of allowance for pets to be present in abundance without being OP or pathetic.

I would first do a review of every single Power based pet in Champions Online (so Munitions Bots, not something like Nightmare Generator) and work on giving them more models and making them worth taking as actual powers by boosting damage and survival.

The most basic problem with pets is that they can easily be used as tack on damage on a DPS build, so they can be thrown away as trash DPS, which seems to be how they are right now. So trying to make sure you don't overpower pets to make them decent for pet masters whilst making them grossly OP for DPS focused characters would be something to consider.

I only skimmed this proposal (for now), so I think you've got a few good ideas in there. I'll likely comment more later on what you've said entirely.

spinnytop

I agree that pets need to be changed from what they are - a swarm of nonsense that follows the player around and applies damage. Primarily because it's pretty boring. Every time I've played a pet master it wasn't long before I stopped because there just isn't anything to it gameplay wise - you summon all your nonsense, then you do whatever while your swarm of bees buzzes around.


A greater focus on temporary pets is something I would like to see. Temporary pets with a cooldown that have specific, powerful utility. Like instead of just summoning an angel that's a measly healbot, I want to summon an angel that blasts out powerful healing to everything around it for a few seconds then goes away. Instead of some little grape blob that can barely hold aggro off of me, I want to summon a juggernaut that aggros everything around it for a while, then goes away. I don't want to summon some little imp that goes pew pew, I want to summon a balrog that nukes the area with a hellstorm of fire and pain.. then goes away. I'm tickled pink by the idea of summoning an ice elemental that for a little bit just repeatedly locks everything around it in ice cages. Make these as useful and distinct as any other power, not just another clump of polygons that does basically the same thing...and is pretty bad at it. I wouldn't make them immune to damage though because that both means they can be more powerful, and means the player has to pick a good time to use them.

Permanent pets basically have to be weak because they're free dps output and can provide aggro distractions. I wouldn't mind seeing permanent pets remain rather weak and fragile, serving the role of cannon fodder. The primary change I would make to them is to make it so their cast time becomes instance if you have that one spec in the Commander tree, so that when they serve their role as cannon fodder the player can quickly replace them without having to invest too much time into it - if you're constantly spending your time resummoning your cannon fodder then they aren't really worth it.

One thing that would be interesting is giving permanent pets an Advantage ( 1 or 2 points ) that gives those pets a huge boost to toughness and damage output for a few seconds after they're summoned, that way players have a reason to repeatedly summon them and aren't too bummed if they die repeatedly.

Pet powers are currently pretty boring and they need both more reason to use them and a more interesting dynamic for their use.

reaperwithnoname

A total revamp seems impractical.

Pets need to have a higher resistance to the AoE of high end content (though not necessarily the AoEs of lower end content; perhaps cap the amount of damage pets can take from AoE?), need to no longer have collision detection (so that they don't take up spots that melee characters need), need to only attack your target, and need to not eat auras. That's all that needs to happen.

pantagruel01

spinnytop said:

A greater focus on temporary pets is something I would like to see.

Permanent pets would be okay if they were dynamic. I'd probably do something like:
All pets have basic and special attacks.

When you first summon a pet, it automatically targets your current target and attempts to use its special attack (if your current target is nonexistent or invalid, use whatever your command settings are). After doing so, it will continue to use its basic attacks, but will not use its special attack again.
If you have a currently active pet, you may tap your pet power to cause it to target your current target and use its special attack. This effect is on a short cooldown.

Pet special attacks do the level of damage you'd expect from tap powers with the energy cost and activation time of a pet, so up to several thousand depending on the build. Pet basic attacks are at about the level of their current abilities.