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My Bad Ideas
soulforger
Posts: 1,649 Arc User
So, after seeing other bad ideas pop up, one after the other, I thought, this time, I'd add my own bad ideas, but in one convenient thread for safe keeping. My ideas are bad, at least I think they are, you are free to agree with me or not. And please, stay civil.
First idea will probably actually be agreeable with people.
First Idea:
Strip the bonuses and penalties from roles. I mean the inherent bonuses and penalties that each role grants. Such as Tank's bonus hp, threat and energy penalties. The superstat bonuses would be unchanged. Simply put, make the role nothing more than ceremonial at best, as a way just to flag oneself as a certain build, with no actual bonuses or penalties associated to that role. Now, some people might not like this idea simply because they have gotten to use to the bonuses (and lets face it, the penalties are hardly noticeable on anything but tanks). In reality, this would have to have the entire game (at least the end game content) retooled for more balanced groups in the term of hit points, damage, and healing.
Now, to my second idea, which I'm sure most people will hate, for it would be a big change.
Second Idea:
Remove Slotted Passives and Forms from the game (the third idea will tie into the slotted passives). The only reason why forms were introduced originally was to help balance melee vs ranged. This idea would have the bonus damage from melee forms be cooked right into all melee powers. That's right, a significant boost to melee damage. And to help offset this bonus, ranged attacks would get a smaller amount of bonus damage cooked into them. And so would the benefits of Compassion and Manipulator be cooked into the powers that would benefit from them. In short, this would be a buff to all powers in general, and the removal of forms. As for Slotted Passives and why they should go, well, that ties into my third idea.
Third Idea:
Rework the specialization trees into three trees (Offense, Defense, and Utility) and get rid of all stat scaling on specs. Of course, this would mean that all the spec options out there would have to be retooled and reworked to fall into the three trees (along with some massive pruning to make the new three tree system work with less options). The removal of stat scaling would result in a flat bonus to certain stats (whichever the option buffs, for example, a Defense tree option Granting 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% bonus to defense). Players would also start getting their spec points at level 1 instead of level 10, for a total of 40 points. Specifically, these spec trees would replace player's slotted passives, so in reality, the spec options would mimic what slotted passives do now. Further more, the bonuses of options would double in the right role (Defense options would double in effectiveness while in tank role), so this would not only replace slotted passives, but also replace the bonuses from roles.
And there you have it, my bad idea. Let it never be said that I was to cowardly to post my bad ideas.
First idea will probably actually be agreeable with people.
First Idea:
Strip the bonuses and penalties from roles. I mean the inherent bonuses and penalties that each role grants. Such as Tank's bonus hp, threat and energy penalties. The superstat bonuses would be unchanged. Simply put, make the role nothing more than ceremonial at best, as a way just to flag oneself as a certain build, with no actual bonuses or penalties associated to that role. Now, some people might not like this idea simply because they have gotten to use to the bonuses (and lets face it, the penalties are hardly noticeable on anything but tanks). In reality, this would have to have the entire game (at least the end game content) retooled for more balanced groups in the term of hit points, damage, and healing.
Now, to my second idea, which I'm sure most people will hate, for it would be a big change.
Second Idea:
Remove Slotted Passives and Forms from the game (the third idea will tie into the slotted passives). The only reason why forms were introduced originally was to help balance melee vs ranged. This idea would have the bonus damage from melee forms be cooked right into all melee powers. That's right, a significant boost to melee damage. And to help offset this bonus, ranged attacks would get a smaller amount of bonus damage cooked into them. And so would the benefits of Compassion and Manipulator be cooked into the powers that would benefit from them. In short, this would be a buff to all powers in general, and the removal of forms. As for Slotted Passives and why they should go, well, that ties into my third idea.
Third Idea:
Rework the specialization trees into three trees (Offense, Defense, and Utility) and get rid of all stat scaling on specs. Of course, this would mean that all the spec options out there would have to be retooled and reworked to fall into the three trees (along with some massive pruning to make the new three tree system work with less options). The removal of stat scaling would result in a flat bonus to certain stats (whichever the option buffs, for example, a Defense tree option Granting 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% bonus to defense). Players would also start getting their spec points at level 1 instead of level 10, for a total of 40 points. Specifically, these spec trees would replace player's slotted passives, so in reality, the spec options would mimic what slotted passives do now. Further more, the bonuses of options would double in the right role (Defense options would double in effectiveness while in tank role), so this would not only replace slotted passives, but also replace the bonuses from roles.
And there you have it, my bad idea. Let it never be said that I was to cowardly to post my bad ideas.
0
Comments
I can understand the removal of the inherent bonuses/penalties for each role (exception being Tank's 110% threat, and Support's CC bonus) I mean a lot of people run in Hybrid which has no inherent bonus/penalty anyways... But as I mentioned, tanks should still get that 110% threat and support should either get CC added to it's superstat bonuses or we should finally get a dedicated controller role that grants it instead of bonus healing.
Forms were a 2-fold solution for melee actually, they were to solve the issue with ranged having higher sustained DPS due to the very nature of ranged combat, and to solve the issue of melee lacking energy unlocks. The addition of ranged forms pretty effectively mucked that whole ordeal up... but since then we've seen the introduction of our first melee EU (Steadfast)... so if they do away with forms and tie the bonuses into the powers as you suggest, then they better hurry up and release an EU for all power sets in the process.
Passives... yea... NO... Your suggestion for this one is beyond terrible... you've effectively suggested "make all passives do the exact same thing"... Let's take a moment and look at the wide variety of bonuses that are available to us through passives shall we.
Defensive Benefits:
Health Regeneration, Shield, Flat-rate Damage Reduction, Flat-rate Resistance, Stacking Resistance, Flat-rate Dodge, Stacking Dodge, Stealth, Aggression Stealth, Health on Hit
Offensive Benefits:
Flat-rate Damage Bonus, Defense Penetration, Flat-rate Stat Bonus, Stacking Stat Bonus, Charge Speed, Bonus DoT, Bonus Debuff, Bonus Damage Spike, AoE DoT, DoT Damage Bonus
Utility Benefits:
HoT Aura, Resistance Aura, Damage Bonus Aura, Stat Bonus Aura, CDR Aura, Cost Discount Aura, Charge Speed Aura, Bonus Damage Spike Aura, Cost Discount, Bonus Healing, Energy when Hit, Energy on Knock, Energy when Dodged, Energy on Dodge, Increased Energy Gain, Healing Debuff, Debuff when Hit, AoE Slow Enemies, Healing Debuff on CC
That's a lot of bonuses to account for... and that's just generalizing these bonuses, if you were to go into specifics you could easily double or triple the size of the list. Now while it would be nice to build a passive piecemeal, you're just asking for a recipe for disaster with this. And in the end everyone is going to end up building pretty much the exact same passive... I mean just look at how specs turned out... practically everyone is running Wardicator unless they are a support build then they are either Sentinel/Sentry or Sentry/Overseer depending on if they are Healing or CC.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
As it is right now, Hybrid mode becomes a better option with higher level gear. As a character goes further into diminishing returns, spreading out becomes more useful. So, roles aren't terribly appealing as it is with BiS gear. The only thing that saves the support role is the bonuses to teammates from certain slotted passives.
Toggle forms are a significant source of energy gain. Many of the higher tier powers are expensive and I doubt energy unlocks alone can power them. Removing forms would likely make many builds unplayable. No, spamming the crap out of an energy builder to use an alpha strike is not an acceptable alternative. All that is really done is gimp every build ever, making combat boring, and force everyone to use REC as a super stat or at least spec for it.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It also would be nice if the threat modifiers could be toggled. They're meant to be benefits, but people might not always want them. Maybe the threat modifiers could be powers everyone has, like block, but with restrictions that you can only use the +threat one while in tank role, and you can only use the -threat one while in one of the damage rolls. At present, all forms really do is increase the rate at which everyone deals damage and generates energy. If that's all there going to do, the extra damage and energy could just be factored in elsewhere instead. What I'd like to see though, is forms reworked so the bonuses provided by each one are different.
I like how passives work now. I wouldn't mind if most aspects of roles vanished if we still had passives. Really, all roles do is have you choose if you want to be better at offense, defense, or support. Passives already let you make that choice, except they're interesting, because you can reach the same goal (e.g. “be harder to kill”) via different paths. It seems like, every time a game gives you multiple tree and points to split between them, the only good choice winds up being to concentrate all your points in one tree. Our current system only avoids that because each tree is locked out as soon as the next one becomes available.
I'd say if you want it to be viable to mix and match between offense, defense, and support, it's going to take a unique tree for each combo to make it actually work. That would be seven trees. One each for pure offense, pure defense and pure support. One for each pair of those three roles. And one for the jack of all trades.
I wouldn't mind if our current system of picking three trees from a pool of nineteen were replaced with picking one big tree from a pool of seven. As a bonus, that would mean our specialization trees would be divorced from our superstat choices. That always seemed unnecessarily limiting.
I can't say I'd be down with using specialization trees as a replacement for passives. There is a really important difference between specialization trees and passives. Passives can be switched at any moment, if you've taken the trouble to have two. Specialization trees can't be switched without a trip to the Power House and 50 globals.
I think any MMO should have a mix of abilities with varying, let's say, “liquidity.” Some things should be set in stone. Some things should possible to change, but require an outlay of time or resources. And some things should be changeable on the fly, with just a button press. I don't want to take all our high-liquidity options and switch them over to be low-liquidity.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Rec would still be sad. Most people would only take it because they feel like they have no choice... Random though: Make juggy and nimble mind scale with rec.
"Urr... this is all almost completely wrong. Hybrid becomes less appealing with high end gear, because what it mostly gives you is durable offense, and with high end gear you're plenty durable in an offensive role."
I'm not talking about normal content where end game gear makes things cake even on a messy build. And certainly not talking about beating up on defenseless PoHo dummies that don't fight back.
You can't run defense / support passives in offense role. There is a point where it becomes far more advantageous to invest into defense for damage than invest into offense for damage. Especially in end-game content with enemies throwing around crazy damage. Overspecializing doesn't do much for damage unless it's an AT. A character in j-gear / onslaughts / gcr with r7+ mods is probably so far into diminishing returns the damage loss from changing to a defense passive in hybrid isn't even noticed. The defense increase will most certainly be seen. Not being dead and not having to block or heal as much does nice thing for ability to do damage.
If support passives scaled with pre or role instead of pre and role, you'd see a lot more support sitting in hybrid so they don't have to deal with the unpleasantness in support role. With how new / end game content is going, defense matters a whole lot more.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
There's a difference between putting things in line, and making everyone the same.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
In TA, if you're tanking (main or off), holding threat can be somethings of a challenge, so usually you want to use tank role, though if threat isn't being a problem you can swap over to hybrid. If you're healing support role is purely superior to hybrid role. If you're dps, well, the biggest key to survival is not drawing enemy aggro to start with, and dps roles have threat reduction baked in. Thus, if you're using hybrid in TA, you're probably doing something wrong.
Kigatilik is essentially the same situation as TA -- if you're not a tank and you're being attacked, you're doing something wrong, and the snow storm is easily survivable in dps role.
Teleiosaurus is slightly different because the untargeted AoEs are dangerous, but they're dangerous in a way a defensive passive doesn't help with, as the big ones are a hold and a DoT that ignores defenses; both attacks have to be blocked regardless of your choice of passive.
Qwyjibo is the special case: it is legitimately hard to survive his AoEs while using an offensive passive unless you're being given healing support. However, high end gear makes it more practical to use an offensive passive, not less. Nor would I want to. It's typically around a 30% reduction in damage output, or a bit more.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
When I then switch to DPS role, my damage goes up 23%.
The total increase when I go from a defensive passive in hybrid, to an offensive passive in dps role is 45.2%.
I'm going to notice 18%. I'm definitely going to notice 45%. The team likely appreciates me doing that extra 45%, especially when you consider that good play means I won't be dying any more than I would in Hybrid with a defensive passive, and when you consider that the things that good play won't save me from are things that hybrid with a defensive passive couldn't save me from either. Then throw on there that people won't be shooting me cold glances like they would if I pull aggro while in hybrid, cause it's super fun knowing that someone is doing less damage and getting people killed.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The developers do not have enough resources nor man power to do any of the aformentioned.
Caliga's PRIMUS Database! --XXX--The Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers! --XXX-- Caliga and Conquer fanart!
As much as I'd like to see Freeforms have the same Diminishing Returns as AT's so you can build those specializations, I find that their is a trend of those seeking Defense(And Con) most of all, cause realizing over 2 years that FF's suffer more then AT's, for certain builds at the time I was following specs/stats that would specialize in their Role, for a Example building a Raw DPS Ranged would be about Avenger/Vindicator with EGO prime, or with Melee is Brawler/Avenger with STR/DEX Prime but no thanks to Diminishing returns I was losing more then I was gaining so I find myself using Guard/Wardicator just to keep up, cause Sacrificing defense matters more then offense cause you can't push it as high as AT's rending specializing less in favor of Generalizing since the benefits don't out-way the penalty, which is disheartening, I'm hoping that after they 'Tweak' all frameworks they can look into Roles being more worthwhile(Also like make CC a viable aspect for support mostly, yay...) then others being so self sufficient marginalizing Teamwork, I know their are other things to take care of like overhauling the Content/AI, but I wanted to express my concern with this statement.
I realize certain people want to aggrandize themselves by Meta gaming and not bother with teamwork, only caring about their own agenda's, but encourage teamwork would also be nice and choosing a specialization should stand out from those that don't, making both offense (Pure DPS) and currently Defense (Tanking)(Also lolwhatsthat? Support) viable options if you stat/build for it, ideally speaking, unless their is another way, I'm eager in a way if this was realized, a suggestion would be if they get rid of the AT's and replace with one Freeform, AT's could be training classes, while Freeform has the equal opportunity to perform as any specialized AT.
I take this quote from a review that I agree with.
"customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."