Well, I'm glad someone found that. Better than arguing. But, no where in comic book history does it state that such mutations are not magical. Nor does anything state that they are. So, mutations are iffy, especially in this game.
The established genre conventions have mutations as a 'scientific' 'non-magical' power source. To use the term 'mutation' without qualification references that trope, originated and codified with the X-Men. (The very idea of mutants originated with Stan Lee for X-Men #1 in 1963 because he didn't want to come up with an origin for their powers - they were born that way - and it was pretty definitively indicated that the causes of mutation were things like radiation. So yes, comic book history does definitively state mutations are not magical. And Lee, in turn, was referencing the biological concept of mutation, even if he didn't have a first clue about the actual science. Just like he didn't understand 'cobalt bombs' or any other scientific thing he used).
Further, 'nothing says it isn't' is never a good argument.
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On the subject of 'clearly not magical' heroes, Defender (power armor) and Justiciar (cyborg) certainly count. Which gives us two 100% lore compliant power sources (technology, mutation) that have nothing to do with magic.
Worth noting... Distinct differences between Magic Based & Non-magic Base power origins...
Mutation: A genetic alteration that you were either born with or acquired through exposure to a gene-altering substance. With very few exceptions you're life is forever changed upon the manifestation of a mutant ability. Whether this life altering experience is a good thing or not is entirely up to the individual (and in some cases the mutation itself). In Champions Lore there are a few examples of Mutations, the most notable being Sapphire and the Eradiates (including Grond)
Technology: Powers originating from a man-made device created through scientific means. Technological powers are almost always acquired by choice. Typically the individuals who use such powers had a life altering experience prior to acquiring their high tech gadgets. Individuals with such powers may easily choose to give up their powers forever if they wish and return to their life as it once was. In Champions Lore a couple prime examples of Technology are Defender and Mechannon
Magic: The casting of spells almost always involves a personal choice to learn the art. In the rare cases where an individual expresses magical powers but made no such choice, the powers are usually the result of a curse or a possession. In any case however, an individual who possesses magical powers can give up their powers forever, though for some this may not be an easy task. In Champions Lore a few great examples of Magic are Witchcraft, Valerian Scarlet, and the Lemurians
The key differences between these are that Mutations are usually involuntary and are a physical part of the individual, technology can be used by anyone even without the knowledge or understanding of how it works, and magic almost always requires knowledge and understanding of how it works to be used.
Typically Alien races derive their powers from either Mutation or Technology, though it's not unheard of for an alien race to use Magic. It's also not unheard of for any individuals or races to fuse one or more of these power origins together, take the Lemurians for example. The entire Lemurian society is a fusion of Magic and Technology, they even have traces of what could be Mutation mixed in.
Here's a question, why doesn't the radiation kill the irradiates right away? And grond as well? Since radiation instantly, and completely either destroys all life, or ruins in such a way that it would perish shortly after following exposure of this magnitude.
Here's a question, why doesn't the radiation kill the irradiates right away? And grond as well? Since radiation instantly, and completely either destroys all life, or ruins in such a way that it would perish shortly after following exposure of this magnitude.
Because comic book science is not like real science. Otherwise Bruce Banner would have been a smear on the desert and Peter Parker would have died of radiation poisoning several weeks later when bitten by a radioactive spider.
Here's a question, why doesn't the radiation kill the irradiates right away? And grond as well? Since radiation instantly, and completely either destroys all life, or ruins in such a way that it would perish shortly after following exposure of this magnitude.
Technically speaking it depends on the type of radiation and the levels of exposure... but in the case of the Irradiates, they should have died. However, it's actually a quite reasonable argument that many of them did infact die, but were subsequently reanimated. Afterall there is a peculiar enemy among the irradiates known as a Reanimator that will use radiation to reanimate the corpses of their fallen brethren. So, when you consider the fact that they are capable of reanimating via radiation, who's to say they didn't die from the radiation already? Quite frankly, in nearly every story that has radioactive zombies they are reanimated corpses, even if they are intelligent. And the Irradiates, for the most part are just that, radioactive zombies... sure they have a few among them that are quite clearly mutants, but even those mutants could be reanimated. Grond however... I'm pretty sure they just took the "Hulk" approach but in this case "Bruce Banner" never regained control (or just doesn't care to). Also it's not like there aren't any real world documented cases of people being mutated by exposure to radiation and in some cases living full lives.
(Just look up Chernobyl, Hiroshima, & Nagasaki survivors... warning it is not pretty)
Guys lets roll it back a bit and not start name calling. This conversation about how important a PnP's lore is or is not to a MMO version was getting interesting. That and the OPs other points were sound.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
No one is saying remove the magic or change the lore. My initial suggestion was to tone down the magic storyline and add more of a trope supervillain threat element. According to both YOU and nepht that would kill the CO pnp lore. According to you "It already appeals to the masses that do not care about the lore", so if this is the case, what's the problem with adding more trope comic content?
Same could be said about you two "block heads" incapable of seeing changes despite the possible positive outcome just for your own selfish selves. Once a new Superhero inspired MMORPG surfaces that appeals more towards the comic fans, you two can quietly chat amongst yourselves about your precious magic lore. Won't be hard to find each other being you'll be the only two on the server.
I've already said the game could use more stuff, but, this whole idea that magic needs to be toned down is not a good idea. You guys went on about mmo game featuring magic. Just one problem, how many of them are superhero games? Just one, this one, so its already there, no need to modify it in any way to add more stuff, they just need to add more stuff, that's it. No need to deviate from the pnp lore than already has happened.
Also, people said that DCUO would kill CO, it did not, so, regardless of if CoT (CIty of Titans) is any good, there will be a good number of people that will continue playing this game. And, its not about incapable of seeing changes that bring about positive stuff (which in reality, the shift away from the pnp lore would not, sorry to bust your bubble on this one, but it will not bring more people in), its about preventing the game from losing its lore and path.
But, we could always use more things to do, for thats the true number one killer (lack of content), so we could use more to do, just as long as it fits the lore. Be it magic or otherwise.
Things are REALLY getting lost in translation here. To remove the magic from this game is like the X-MEN comics removing mutation. YOU NEED THE MAGIC! There's no mistake in that. It's part of the reason why there are superheroes in this lore. Toning it down and removing are two entirely different things! No one is asking to strip this game of magic. Absolutely no idea where you're getting this from. Even Marvel/DC both have magic users.
Here's an example, remember the Canada storyline? Endgame - Spiritual magic. Vibora Bay Apocalypse? Endgame - Demonology/Magic. The new Nightmare event with the portals? Demons / Magic. How about anything that has to do with Hi Pan or most of the open world missions? Magic.
The endgame of those and most missions end with a portal, demons and (you guessed it) magic.
All I'm asking is to see more trope "evil villain" crimes such as the XP Alerts but as open world missions. KEEP THE MAGIC IN! Have a damn spell user commit petty crimes! Rob a bank or armored car or plot to create a massive bomb! Here's an idea, have an evil villain who uses "fire magic", who is suited up like a (heavens forbid) a Jack Kirby comic book character and have him hold the mayor's daughter/niece/God daughter/pen pal WHOEVER hostage for money. Not plot to summon a daemon, no portals, no book of the dead, just straight up cash. I personally would LOVE to see more of this stuff. Give us an event where you're evil "magic" villains has actual henchmen, that are not undead or demons, spread through out the city heisting parts to build some sort of trope device (e.g> bomb, weather device, mind control etc etc).
I'll reiterate once again so that I'm 100% clear, KEEP THE MAGIC, just be a little more comic book-ish with the missions and events.
Guys lets roll it back a bit and not start name calling. This conversation about how important a PnP's lore is or is not to a MMO version was getting interesting. That and the OPs other points were sound.
Exactly. There's no need for it. We're all fans of the game, having a mature discussion. There's no need to spark an argument by name calling.
Things are REALLY getting lost in translation here. To remove the magic from this game is like the X-MEN comics removing mutation. YOU NEED THE MAGIC! There's no mistake in that. It's part of the reason why there are superheroes in this lore. Toning it down and removing are two entirely different things! No one is asking to strip this game of magic. Absolutely no idea where you're getting this from. Even Marvel/DC both have magic users.
Here's an example, remember the Canada storyline? Endgame - Spiritual magic. Vibora Bay Apocalypse? Endgame - Demonology/Magic. The new Nightmare event with the portals? Demons / Magic. How about anything that has to do with Hi Pan or most of the open world missions? Magic.
The endgame of those and most missions end with a portal, demons and (you guessed it) magic.
All I'm asking is to see more trope "evil villain" crimes such as the XP Alerts but as open world missions. KEEP THE MAGIC IN! Have a damn spell user commit petty crimes! Rob a bank or armored car or plot to create a massive bomb! Here's an idea, have an evil villain who uses "fire magic", who is suited up like a (heavens forbid) a Jack Kirby comic book character and have him hold the mayor's daughter/niece/God daughter/pen pal WHOEVER hostage for money. Not plot to summon a daemon, no portals, no book of the dead, just straight up cash. I personally would LOVE to see more of this stuff. Give us an event where you're evil "magic" villains has actual henchmen, that are not undead or demons, spread through out the city heisting parts to build some sort of trope device (e.g> bomb, weather device, mind control etc etc).
I'll reiterate once again so that I'm 100% clear, KEEP THE MAGIC, just be a little more comic book-ish with the missions and events.
Ah, much clearer, yes, things got lost in translation.
I would not mind if CO went the FFXI route; low population game...heck, just let players create their own parties for certain content.
Imo, we should b allowed to summon one customized sidekick
And one loyal zen store sidekick.
The ability to summon more requires companion slots from the z-store, for 5,000 zen each of course.........
That only works in Final Fantasy 11 due to loyal fanbase and still being one of the few sub based games running for over a decade plus. Also that game doesn't suffer from power creep anyone can die in battle if not careful in Champions if built right can go afk and never die.
My idea to improve Champions is simple one remove limitations on silvers. To do this give silvers four slots at account creation two archtype ones and two freeform ones. This is so new players can get a feel for both perspectives and not just one. Step two in improvement is advertisement you need to get your game out there to the masses who do not even know of it.
Step three is bit harder it calls for mobs being balanced while at same time power creep being addressed. To some this is impossible but to me nothing is only some things are inplausible. Do these things and maybe the game could see revitilization and heck maybe even some great growths.
My idea to improve Champions is simple one remove limitations on silvers. To do this give silvers four slots at account creation two archtype ones and two freeform ones. This is so new players can get a feel for both perspectives and not just one. Step two in improvement is advertisement you need to get your game out there to the masses who do not even know of it.
I think silvers getting one FF slot is cool(during the free giveaway) . Four slots? 2 FF 2 AT?..Ehh, nah. How about: All Premium-ATs either reduced or free, and leave the slots at 2.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
IMO to improve champs, the devs should give us more story, all the latest updates have had more to do with open world pinatas than actual in game story progress. this can be done through new zones, comic series, adventure packs, dungeons, whatever. but get us immersed in the story again. Leveling a character from 1 to 40 is fun, quests and zones have their own lore, but once we reach 40 there is nothing more to do, story wise...
Well we're currently waiting on the second chapter of the story of how the Qliphotic realm is invading us.
Once they've sorted out the mess that is the game's gameplay, then they'll have plenty of time to spend on stories - luckily they've decided they'll spend some time on it inbetween too.
Comments
Further, 'nothing says it isn't' is never a good argument.
----------
On the subject of 'clearly not magical' heroes, Defender (power armor) and Justiciar (cyborg) certainly count. Which gives us two 100% lore compliant power sources (technology, mutation) that have nothing to do with magic.
Mutation: A genetic alteration that you were either born with or acquired through exposure to a gene-altering substance. With very few exceptions you're life is forever changed upon the manifestation of a mutant ability. Whether this life altering experience is a good thing or not is entirely up to the individual (and in some cases the mutation itself). In Champions Lore there are a few examples of Mutations, the most notable being Sapphire and the Eradiates (including Grond)
Technology: Powers originating from a man-made device created through scientific means. Technological powers are almost always acquired by choice. Typically the individuals who use such powers had a life altering experience prior to acquiring their high tech gadgets. Individuals with such powers may easily choose to give up their powers forever if they wish and return to their life as it once was. In Champions Lore a couple prime examples of Technology are Defender and Mechannon
Magic: The casting of spells almost always involves a personal choice to learn the art. In the rare cases where an individual expresses magical powers but made no such choice, the powers are usually the result of a curse or a possession. In any case however, an individual who possesses magical powers can give up their powers forever, though for some this may not be an easy task. In Champions Lore a few great examples of Magic are Witchcraft, Valerian Scarlet, and the Lemurians
The key differences between these are that Mutations are usually involuntary and are a physical part of the individual, technology can be used by anyone even without the knowledge or understanding of how it works, and magic almost always requires knowledge and understanding of how it works to be used.
Typically Alien races derive their powers from either Mutation or Technology, though it's not unheard of for an alien race to use Magic. It's also not unheard of for any individuals or races to fuse one or more of these power origins together, take the Lemurians for example. The entire Lemurian society is a fusion of Magic and Technology, they even have traces of what could be Mutation mixed in.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Here's an example, remember the Canada storyline? Endgame - Spiritual magic. Vibora Bay Apocalypse? Endgame - Demonology/Magic. The new Nightmare event with the portals? Demons / Magic. How about anything that has to do with Hi Pan or most of the open world missions? Magic.
The endgame of those and most missions end with a portal, demons and (you guessed it) magic.
All I'm asking is to see more trope "evil villain" crimes such as the XP Alerts but as open world missions. KEEP THE MAGIC IN! Have a damn spell user commit petty crimes! Rob a bank or armored car or plot to create a massive bomb! Here's an idea, have an evil villain who uses "fire magic", who is suited up like a (heavens forbid) a Jack Kirby comic book character and have him hold the mayor's daughter/niece/God daughter/pen pal WHOEVER hostage for money. Not plot to summon a daemon, no portals, no book of the dead, just straight up cash. I personally would LOVE to see more of this stuff. Give us an event where you're evil "magic" villains has actual henchmen, that are not undead or demons, spread through out the city heisting parts to build some sort of trope device (e.g> bomb, weather device, mind control etc etc).
I'll reiterate once again so that I'm 100% clear, KEEP THE MAGIC, just be a little more comic book-ish with the missions and events.
I would not mind if CO went the FFXI route; low population game...heck, just let players create their own parties for certain content.
Imo, we should b allowed to summon one customized sidekick
And one loyal zen store sidekick.
The ability to summon more requires companion slots from the z-store, for 5,000 zen each of course.........
That only works in Final Fantasy 11 due to loyal fanbase and still being one of the few sub based games running for over a decade plus. Also that game doesn't suffer from power creep anyone can die in battle if not careful in Champions if built right can go afk and never die.
My idea to improve Champions is simple one remove limitations on silvers. To do this give silvers four slots at account creation two archtype ones and two freeform ones. This is so new players can get a feel for both perspectives and not just one. Step two in improvement is advertisement you need to get your game out there to the masses who do not even know of it.
Step three is bit harder it calls for mobs being balanced while at same time power creep being addressed. To some this is impossible but to me nothing is only some things are inplausible. Do these things and maybe the game could see revitilization and heck maybe even some great growths.
42 40s, LTSer.
this can be done through new zones, comic series, adventure packs, dungeons, whatever. but get us immersed in the story again. Leveling a character from 1 to 40 is fun, quests and zones have their own lore, but once we reach 40 there is nothing more to do, story wise...
Once they've sorted out the mess that is the game's gameplay, then they'll have plenty of time to spend on stories - luckily they've decided they'll spend some time on it inbetween too.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.