Revised Kiga

roughbearmattach

Definitely Kigatilik is a much tougher Cosmic since last Thursday's changes.
His ranged attack is now an AoE, the icy tombs are much tougher, and in addition to healing when he defeats a hero, he gets a very significant defensive buff.

I think Frost Hounds actually turn invisible at times now (not a glitch, but from their powers).

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aiqa

We tried once before people said "this is impossible" and left. Also the biggest problem was people just standing in front of him, eating his cone AoE and all dying. Also people thinking they are to good to have to block during the ice storm. The dog tanks were not supported properly (either by healing or keeping howl stacks down, I couldn't exactly tell), so they kept dying and letting the dogs run lose. Dps ignoring ice prisons all the time.

That was really not any significant test of the cosmic, more a test of the players. Pretty much anything that you can do wrong in that fight, was done wrong.

roughbearmattach

aiqa said:

We tried once before people said "this is impossible" and left. Also the biggest problem was people just standing in front of him, eating his cone AoE and all dying. Also people thinking they are to good to have to block during the ice storm. The dog tanks were not supported properly (either by healing or keeping howl stacks down, I couldn't exactly tell), so they kept dying and letting the dogs run lose. Dps ignoring ice prisons all the time.

That was really not any significant test of the cosmic, more a test of the players. Pretty much anything that you can do wrong in that fight, was done wrong.

Though not everyone said it was impossible, what you say is true.

What Gradii said is true, too.

qawsada

roughbearmattach said:

I think Frost Hounds actually turn invisible at times now (not a glitch, but from their powers).

That was always the case since day one, kind of like how Freon can make himself invisible.

It seem that now that positioning is important and that the dps have to position themselves behind the direction that kiga is facing.

pantagruel01

While I haven't run Kigatilik since the update, the obvious implications are (1) the tank needs to stay separated from other players (it's a 10' radius AoE), and (b) aggro swaps onto a dps in the middle of a crowd are bad. In general it encourages people spreading out instead of forming a big cluster at Kiga's feet, though that would be easier if the altar were less annoying and/or there were less NTTG in the fight.

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aiqa

gradii said:

aiqa said:

We tried once before people said "this is impossible" and left. Also the biggest problem was people just standing in front of him, eating his cone AoE and all dying. Also people thinking they are to good to have to block during the ice storm. The dog tanks were not supported properly (either by healing or keeping howl stacks down, I couldn't exactly tell), so they kept dying and letting the dogs run lose. Dps ignoring ice prisons all the time.

That was really not any significant test of the cosmic, more a test of the players. Pretty much anything that you can do wrong in that fight, was done wrong.

Yes its called Melee, melee is screwed by kiga's attack being aoe since the tanks tanking him are also melee.

If the tank and melee dps make proper use of their 10 feet range, they should easily be able to position themselves so the dps is not hit by the AoE.

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aiqa

gradii said:

aiqa said:

gradii said:

aiqa said:

We tried once before people said "this is impossible" and left. Also the biggest problem was people just standing in front of him, eating his cone AoE and all dying. Also people thinking they are to good to have to block during the ice storm. The dog tanks were not supported properly (either by healing or keeping howl stacks down, I couldn't exactly tell), so they kept dying and letting the dogs run lose. Dps ignoring ice prisons all the time.

That was really not any significant test of the cosmic, more a test of the players. Pretty much anything that you can do wrong in that fight, was done wrong.

Yes its called Melee, melee is screwed by kiga's attack being aoe since the tanks tanking him are also melee.

If the tank and melee dps make proper use of their 10 feet range, they should easily be able to position themselves so the dps is not hit by the AoE.

Expecting that to happen is like expecting people to grow a 3rd arm.

We had a good player tanking Kiga, so if he didn't already make proper use of his 10 feet range you could have asked him, and apart from that you can only start with positioning yourself properly. Then if you see other people making a mistake with their positioning, just try to inform them about their mistake.

roughbearmattach

I was surprised by the AoE on the ranged attacks. Makes positioning even a little different.

crappynamerules

I don't get why he needed changing. Honestly he has already been a pain, second only to Teleiosaurus. I have literally had people who respawned run by and smack dogs around and grab aggro while I was a dog tank. And if they are up on that altar during the storm, good luck getting them back down. You basically have to make sure to get them on the stairs. If you drop down from a ledge it breaks LoS, and they drop aggro to you and immediately go back to what they were doing. And if they also now have the annoying ice-blind effect...what the hell?

chaosdrgnz43

Just when we think we get the handle on the fights, that's when the devs change stuff. It's how they "challenge" us.

To think that Kiga's snow storm could suddenly insta-kill my healer at times, they made Kiga's ice blast aoe too...

xacchaeus

its as though they forgot this was designed for 20 players, of course a zone full of heroes should be be able to beat him, what happens when you can only muster the intended 20?

rtma

xacchaeus said:

its as though they forgot this was designed for 20 players, of course a zone full of heroes should be be able to beat him, what happens when you can only muster the intended 20?

Is this suppose to be rhetorical? you got 3 options, try it, leave it or recruit more & Organize better.

spinnytop

chaosdrgnz43 said:

Just when we think we get the handle on the fights, that's when the devs change stuff. It's how they "challenge" us.

For all the complaining and moaning when the cosmics first went live, they were just too easy. I mean come on, am I the only one who noticed that Cosmics had quickly become an easy GCR farm? I'm sure some people noticed it and just didn't want to say anything, hoping it would stay - I'm also sure some people actually thought "Yeah, this is the level of challenge I'm willing to deal with for GCR", kidding themselves with the use of the word challenge.

We had about a week before the Cosmics were on absolute farm status.. heck farm isn't even the right word, they were on zerg status. That's not the caliber of content that GCR is meant to come from.

But hey, you guys should all actually feel proud of yourselves. The devs really underestimated the playerbase on this one, and the playerbase showed that they can handle much more than what was being thrown at them. Everyone really pulled together to show that the people who think CO is full of dumb, slow-witted players who can't play for squat are wrong - as it turns out, those of us that say the players here are much much better than that turned out to be right

darqaura2

spinnytop said:

chaosdrgnz43 said:

Just when we think we get the handle on the fights, that's when the devs change stuff. It's how they "challenge" us.

For all the complaining and moaning when the cosmics first went live, they were just too easy. I mean come on, am I the only one who noticed that Cosmics had quickly become an easy GCR farm? I'm sure some people noticed it and just didn't want to say anything, hoping it would stay - I'm also sure some people actually thought "Yeah, this is the level of challenge I'm willing to deal with for GCR", kidding themselves with the use of the word challenge.

We had about a week before the Cosmics were on absolute farm status.. heck farm isn't even the right word, they were on zerg status. That's not the caliber of content that GCR is meant to come from.

But hey, you guys should all actually feel proud of yourselves. The devs really underestimated the playerbase on this one, and the playerbase showed that they can handle much more than what was being thrown at them. Everyone really pulled together to show that the people who think CO is full of dumb, slow-witted players who can't play for squat are wrong - as it turns out, those of us that say the players here are much much better than that turned out to be right

That's great that it's turned into farm status. I stopped attending as my sleep schedule couldn't deal with all the "hurry up and wait involved". You young-ins with all that time on your hand have fun with it.

With that said if you get a bunch of folks who don't listen or pay attention then it can still hamper the rest of the group. Which is just normal mmo play.

I never thought the cosmics were all that difficult.

sammiefighter

spinnytop said:

For all the complaining and moaning when the cosmics first went live, they were just too easy. I mean come on, am I the only one who noticed that Cosmics had quickly become an easy GCR farm?

I noticed. But I also noticed the 20 person raids tended to wait until 50+ people showed up, or well 40 when the servers limits were lowered. So things go down fast and easy with 2x-3x the expected players.

As for Kiga, even before the patch he seemed to have some critical tipping point between "I'm out healing your damage no problem", vs "I'm a wet noodle and dead". If needed 'fixing' I'd probably would have looked at that (or its just some players know how to tip the scales here)

.. and then the dogs (strange spike attack, fear or ice cage might be breaking block), and points for dog tanks sine if play goes well, no reward still.
.. and then the extra 2 steps on the altar blocking attacks

.. Not more damage, not an aoe in a tight situation, a poor location and everyone isn't actually running loop builds with a base 250 defense plus con/hp gear.

colonelwing

spinnytop said:

chaosdrgnz43 said:

Just when we think we get the handle on the fights, that's when the devs change stuff. It's how they "challenge" us.

For all the complaining and moaning when the cosmics first went live, they were just too easy. I mean come on, am I the only one who noticed that Cosmics had quickly become an easy GCR farm? I'm sure some people noticed it and just didn't want to say anything, hoping it would stay - I'm also sure some people actually thought "Yeah, this is the level of challenge I'm willing to deal with for GCR", kidding themselves with the use of the word challenge.

We had about a week before the Cosmics were on absolute farm status.. heck farm isn't even the right word, they were on zerg status. That's not the caliber of content that GCR is meant to come from.

But hey, you guys should all actually feel proud of yourselves. The devs really underestimated the playerbase on this one, and the playerbase showed that they can handle much more than what was being thrown at them. Everyone really pulled together to show that the people who think CO is full of dumb, slow-witted players who can't play for squat are wrong - as it turns out, those of us that say the players here are much much better than that turned out to be right

Says the person who not only made a videoguide but also openly promoted exploiting an obvious glitch, when the Defenders didn't respawn properly. We are little bit hypocritical, aren't we? And don't tell me that they were meant to be farmed like that.

See ya (u3u, Wuwuw, [insertrandominternetkiddiememehere], etc. ...)

roughbearmattach

True that I felt the Cosmics were becoming a GCR farm. Teleiosaurus started off so wonky, so glitchy, that it was hard initially. Then some glitches were fixed, zone cap put in, and even the dino became like a fairly certain win.

Much of the pain comes from CO having too much autowin content since On Alert. When content is not a guaranteed win (Cyberlord, finishing Forum Malvanum, TA, etc), it can feel really jarring, even wrong, to players who actually like that Champions typically rewards players for participation, rather than skill/attention/persistence.

My initial post, by the way, was meant to be neutral. Kigatilik is harder now. Whether you like that or not is entirely your opinion. I haven't tried the revised Qwijybo or Teleiosaurus yet.

spinnytop

darqaura2 said:

That's great that it's turned into farm status. I stopped attending as my sleep schedule couldn't deal with all the "hurry up and wait involved". You young-ins with all that time on your hand have fun with it.

With that said if you get a bunch of folks who don't listen or pay attention then it can still hamper the rest of the group. Which is just normal mmo play.

I never thought the cosmics were all that difficult.

If the fight doesn't start within 10 minutes of me getting there I start doing other things o3o being young means I also have the attention span of a goldfish.

spinnytop

colonelwing said:

Says the person who not only made a videoguide but also openly promoted exploiting an obvious glitch, when the Defenders didn't respawn properly. We are little bit hypocritical, aren't we? And don't tell me that they were meant to be farmed like that.

See ya (u3u, Wuwuw, [insertrandominternetkiddiememehere], etc. ...)

The video still hasn't been taken down, and videos showing glitches are taken down, so clearly it wasn't a glitch. Also, the Cosmics being a GCR farm wasn't a glitch either... so what is the point you were making? o3o see ya

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

My initial post, by the way, was meant to be neutral. Kigatilik is harder now. Whether you like that or not is entirely your opinion.

Very true.

darqaura2

spinnytop said:

darqaura2 said:

That's great that it's turned into farm status. I stopped attending as my sleep schedule couldn't deal with all the "hurry up and wait involved". You young-ins with all that time on your hand have fun with it.

With that said if you get a bunch of folks who don't listen or pay attention then it can still hamper the rest of the group. Which is just normal mmo play.

I never thought the cosmics were all that difficult.

If the fight doesn't start within 10 minutes of me getting there I start doing other things o3o being young means I also have the attention span of a goldfish.

LOL!

I just simply log out.

There isn't anything in CO currently that I want to do besides comics.

The rampages I need I can never seem to see them get started, so I've just ignored that content. Nightmare Invasion is meh to me especially with how the auras work. None of my current toons need them and I can't get them for potential future toons.

So basically if I can't get to do a cosmic I just log. There really isn't anything else in CO to do at the moment.

Maybe one day I'll have interest in TA . . . or maybe not.

colonelwing

spinnytop said:

The video still hasn't been taken down, and videos showing glitches are taken down, so clearly it wasn't a glitch. Also, the Cosmics being a GCR farm wasn't a glitch either... so what is the point you were making? o3o see ya

Stop playing dumb, you were claiming that GCR were too easy to get... With your little glitch - exploit sessions, you were able to obtain things, that were not intended to be obtained that fast. Considered you abused a design flaw / bug / glitch... (possibly for weeks, if not months) you should just remain silent, before the wrong people read your exploit promotions and guides because, getting an unfair advantage over other gamers by abusing a broken game mechanic is clearly against the ToS. People had to kiss their accounts goodbye for way less..


That's why i'm calling you, a hypocrite.

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spinnytop

colonelwing said:

Stop playing dumb, you were claiming that GCR were too easy to get... With your little glitch - exploit sessions, you were able to obtain things, that were not intended to be obtained that fast. Considered you abused a design flaw / bug / glitch... (possibly for weeks, if not months) you should just remain silent, before the wrong people read your exploit promotions and guides because, getting an unfair advantage over other gamers by abusing a broken game mechanic is clearly against the ToS. People had to kiss their accounts goodbye for way less..


That's why i'm calling you, a hypocrite.

You might have a point if I had at any point said that people were wrong for participating in Cosmics while they were too easy, but that didn't happen. Call me whatever you like, I'm not buying it

nepht

Before any of the major changes we talking like before this year Kiga could be taken down with a team of 5 with OP builds. He was in no way cosmic at all.

pantagruel01

nepht said:

Before any of the major changes we talking like before this year Kiga could be taken down with a team of 5 with OP builds. He was in no way cosmic at all.

Urr... before the giant monsters patch went live all of the Cosmics could be soloed fairly easily.

nepht

pantagruel01 said:

Urr... before the giant monsters patch went live all of the Cosmics could be soloed fairly easily.

Yeah but who wanted to spending 10 mins doing Kiga people wanted that sweet 3 mins gank.

roughbearmattach

So, looks like the revised Kiga hasn't been beaten yet.

It's punishingly hard. Some are optimistic the server population will figure it out, but some others have stated that they just won't bother and farm dino and ape.

cptmassive1

Yep. Count me among the latter. Maybe we will get it but only with a specific team setup that needs to be present. But since the rewards are character bound GL ever getting that combo/balance to happen with any regularity.

Oh well, at least the other two are close together.

The monkey needs some tweaking too since the AOE seems to be ignoring blocks most of the time again. Something ain't right.

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biffsmackwell

Heh, you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. If you want them to pay heed, don't call them idiots by way of their decisions.

nepht

After today I have to agree with people saying that melee people have been screwed over with this. withing the space of four days I've done Kiga twice. The time when most people where ranged it was a success and once when a lot of the players where melee. The ranged folk handled it fine and the melee one was a train wreck.

Not that it was anyone's fault it just seems Kiga's buff was not fully tested with a range of builds before going live.

qawsada

We just defeated Kiga after everyone organize themselves. Also, Kiga mega charged attack start at 66% of his hp and it can be shared.

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xacchaeus

nailed it, the extra 7 gcr isnt worth the hassle at this point, and once something gets a bad reputation its next to impossible to get people back. Once the newness wears off, what will become of the revamped cosmics when you cant get a zone full of players?

markhawkman

Yeah, I feel the need to point out the event Cosmics... I'm pretty sure that lots of people take part in the Colossi fights that aren't top tier players. Yesterday I managed to score 732k in a Colossus fight... as a Grimoire AT....

spinnytop

bluegrassbeast said:

I am not opposed to difficulty in games

I don't believe you.

bluegrassbeast said:

Annoying difficulty: Making content lie unplayed since the industry no longer needed masochism to bleed quarters and matured.

CO is not the game for stupid-hard, high 'challenge' content, nor the audience.

spinnytop

xacchaeus said:

nailed it, the extra 7 gcr isnt worth the hassle at this point, and once something gets a bad reputation its next to impossible to get people back. Once the newness wears off, what will become of the revamped cosmics when you cant get a zone full of players?

once the rest of you leave, Conquer will swoop in and dominate it and anytime you try to come near it we'll scare you off by claiming it was buffed even more

xacchaeus

enjoy....

pantagruel01

markhawkman said:

Yeah, I feel the need to point out the event Cosmics... I'm pretty sure that lots of people take part in the Colossi fights that aren't top tier players.

Plenty of not top tier players in the non-event Cosmic fights as well. It doesn't take particularly elite builds to contribute.

markhawkman

pantagruel01 said:

markhawkman said:

Yeah, I feel the need to point out the event Cosmics... I'm pretty sure that lots of people take part in the Colossi fights that aren't top tier players.

Plenty of not top tier players in the non-event Cosmic fights as well. It doesn't take particularly elite builds to contribute.

That's exactly what I was expecting you to say. From what I've heard the new cosmics are not ridiculously powerful compared to Mega-Ds.

Hmm..... I haz pictures.... http://marhawkman.deviantart.com/art/ColossiScores-612405013

There was a LOT of people in the first one. I can only see about 1/3 the list and that's 14 names. So 40+ out of the 50 people in that zone took part in the fight. The second one... maybe 30.

pantagruel01

markhawkman said:

There was a LOT of people in the first one. I can only see about 1/3 the list and that's 14 names. So 40+ out of the 50 people in that zone took part in the fight. The second one... maybe 30.

Your point being? That's a typical player count for the non-event Cosmics as well.

magpieuk2014

Ooh, I'm in that list. That's a fun Cosmic, though (assuming it is a cosmic). Can be done with a variety of teams (ability and size), gives everyone something to do which is important to success, doesn't kill you too often with Rank 3 AoE of Inescapable Doom and doesn't go on too long. Win! I did try it with a melee toon, though, and it is still very difficult to see what is going on from down there when you're trying to tank the Colossus. Squish!

I have tried the MI/Canada cosmics but they just confuse me. Well, actually, I can't find Qwyjibo (how difficult can it be to find a flaming monkey??) and the Teliosaurus instructions have the same comprehensibility as an IKEA wardrobe (Align Teliosaurus (A) at right angles to Teliosaurus Baby (B), avoiding Tail Flange of Doom (C)...).... (everything falls apart)

qawsada

markhawkman said:

There was a LOT of people in the first one. I can only see about 1/3 the list and that's 14 names. So 40+ out of the 50 people in that zone took part in the fight. The second one... maybe 30.

Eh, you can easily get top score just by killing the adds and trash mobs alone. I manage to do so by spamming Shuriken Storm at the center of the portal all day every day.

markhawkman

pantagruel01 said:

markhawkman said:

There was a LOT of people in the first one. I can only see about 1/3 the list and that's 14 names. So 40+ out of the 50 people in that zone took part in the fight. The second one... maybe 30.

Your point being? That's a typical player count for the non-event Cosmics as well.

just that random peeps will show up simply because the event is there.

magpieuk2014 said:

Ooh, I'm in that list.

Which one?

magpieuk2014 said:

That's a fun Cosmic, though (assuming it is a cosmic). Can be done with a variety of teams (ability and size), gives everyone something to do which is important to success, doesn't kill you too often with Rank 3 AoE of Inescapable Doom and doesn't go on too long. Win! I did try it with a melee toon, though, and it is still very difficult to see what is going on from down there when you're trying to tank the Colossus. Squish!

Yeah, I can't tank it on any of my characters. Tsin'xing sometimes draws aggro if the tank goes down.... I think.... Not sure because I'm too busy blocking(or respawning) to look to see if the tank is actually dead or maybe he just failed to maintain threat.

magpieuk2014 said:

I have tried the MI/Canada cosmics but they just confuse me. Well, actually, I can't find Qwyjibo (how difficult can it be to find a flaming monkey??) and the Teliosaurus instructions have the same comprehensibility as an IKEA wardrobe (Align Teliosaurus (A) at right angles to Teliosaurus Baby (B), avoiding Tail Flange of Doom (C)...).... (everything falls apart)

qawsada said:

markhawkman said:

There was a LOT of people in the first one. I can only see about 1/3 the list and that's 14 names. So 40+ out of the 50 people in that zone took part in the fight. The second one... maybe 30.

Eh, you can easily get top score just by killing the adds and trash mobs alone. I manage to do so by spamming Shuriken Storm at the center of the portal all day every day.

what I do depends on character, if a ranged attacker I'll stay up high and attack the Colossus. The one pic is looking down at the street because I was literally looking down at the Colossus while attacking it.

kamokami

If people stopped blaming builds and gear for their lack of coordination and familiarity with new mechanics these things would not be nearly as challenging.

Once you get used to the fight, there are less catastrophic mistakes.....it happened with the first cosmic revamp and it's happening again.

If you believe in yourself enough to say, "we can do it" then you start thinking about figuring out how. If you don't, then it's much easier to write it off as impossible and walk away and call everyone who's still figuring it out a masochist.

qawsada

Kiga went down, again. Yeah, as long as it's organized, the dps call out the tomb, and the main kiga tank got the hold, it can be done.

markhawkman

kamokami said:

If people stopped blaming builds and gear for their lack of coordination and familiarity with new mechanics these things would not be nearly as challenging.

Once you get used to the fight, there are less catastrophic mistakes.....it happened with the first cosmic revamp and it's happening again.

If you believe in yourself enough to say, "we can do it" then you start thinking about figuring out how. If you don't, then it's much easier to write it off as impossible and walk away and call everyone who's still figuring it out a masochist.

Yeah, I still remember what it was like fighting Mega-Ds for the first time.... I had no idea when or what to block and got KOed by boom attacks regularly.