Rampage Token Drop Rate Drop

pwestolemyname

So, I keep hearing this rumor that the chance of getting a Rampage token goes down with each run that you do within a certain time period, either 24 hours or one cycle for a given Rampage. I have also heard the rate of getting a drop goes down after you get one token drop during that day or cycle. People have even claimed to have seen one of the devs/community managers say it was so.

I have not seen any evidence of this myself. I have seen people have dry runs where they get none for many runs and wet runs where they get several in just a few runs. All that means is that it is random and the chance is low.

I do NOT want to hear your anecdotes because those are meaningless. But, as I mentioned, I have heard there was an actual statement of this on the forums somewhere. I am hoping that one of you wonderful people might still have a link to it, or maybe even be able to find it. I have poured over so many old release notes with no luck of any mention of diminishing drop rates. Anyone that has or can find a link to that, I would surely appreciate it.

kallethen

I'm trying to find the post, it'll take a while cuz the search function on these forums isn't the best. But for now I'll say I know it should be a fact that the RNG chance for token drops decreases with each SUCCESSFUL acquisition of the token, which is reset each day. The diminishing returns doesn't happen on each run, just on each token drop you get.​​

chaelk

it's after you get a token and it's per cycle.
you're looking at about march 2014
comment was by TT.​​

pwestolemyname

See, in just 2 comments, we have two different rumors.

kallethen, thank you for checking, I spent a couple hours looking and I could not find anything. And, yes, you are very correct about the mediocrity of the search function.

chaelk, I looked in March of 2014, and a bunch of others from 2013 through 2014 and could not find any mention of it. Not saying it wasn't there, just saying I couldn't find it.

championshewolf

Actually the second "rumor" is not a rumor. That's the factual information. The token drop decrease begins after you get your first drop for that particular rampage during that cycle. It does not reset the next day or any of that, but you are still quite capable of getting multiple tokens on the same character. You have a set percentage drop chance on the first time then after that you have a decreased chance for every time there after. This decreased rate persists until that particular rampage comes back up, and only affects that particular rampage.​​

chaelk

hmmm, ok the PTS archive for those months is missing. what a surprise.
Let's see if we canget someone to find out for us.
@crypticarkayne @kaizerin​​

pwestolemyname

championshewolf said:

Actually the second "rumor" is not a rumor. That's the factual information. The token drop decrease begins after you get your first drop for that particular rampage during that cycle. It does not reset the next day or any of that, but you are still quite capable of getting multiple tokens on the same character. You have a set percentage drop chance on the first time then after that you have a decreased chance for every time there after. This decreased rate persists until that particular rampage comes back up, and only affects that particular rampage.​​

How do you know this for sure?

championshewolf

Because that is what TrailTurtle explained to us on multiple occasions.​​

kallethen

I'll defer to Silverspar's wisdom on this. The only post I could find for certain was a PTS patch note stating that there would be rampage tokens with diminishing returns. I couldn't find any specific post saying exactly what the terms were, but I absolutely recall that it diminishes only when you get the token, not per run. Silverspar's comment that it resets only when the rampage switches makes sense. I had assumed it was a daily reset like most stuff.​​

pwestolemyname

It's all rumor until there is evidence. I have heard all sorts of different stuff. Considering that the devs play drop-rate EXTREMELY close to the chest, I am skeptical that they really posted something about it.

championshewolf

pwestolemyname wrote: »

It's all rumor until there is evidence. I have heard all sorts of different stuff. Considering that the devs play drop-rate EXTREMELY close to the chest, I am skeptical that they really posted something about it.

Well you can call it a rumor until you are blue in the face, but this is what we were told by a CSR. Like it or not, it is how it is.​​

reaperwithnoname

The diminishing chance per run is a rumor (which I happen to believe based on my own anecdotal "evidence", which isn't really evidence at all, and is therefore worthless).

The diminishing chance after a successful drop, however, is kaiserin-confirmed: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/252775/justice-gear-and-tokens/p1

serpentuss

In my opinion the drop rate should be changed to have at least 1 token for the first completed rampage of the cycle. Cause it's already hard to bring together the people to even try to do it right now. It's totally insane

reaperwithnoname

Well, what they should have done from the beginning was have it be one token per success, and then have the number of tokens required for justice gear be many times more than currently to compensate. That way, the average time required to get them (and therefore the amount of grind) would be the same as it is now (since this is how long they have decided it should take), but no players would be dissuaded from participating due to poor luck, and nobody would get justice gear quicker than they're supposed to and leave the system early.

However, that idea has been around for a long time, and if they haven't changed it by now, they aren't going to.

diggot

Someone said yesterday in chat that the decrease in chance to find a token goes down account-wide when you get a token...and is in effect until it switches Rampage. I don't know how much truth there is to that.

But i still think its TOTAL BS to punish a players effort in getting upgrades. It should be UP TO US if we want to spend and entire day farming for tokens until our fingers bleed, and get rewarded for that effort - it shouldn't be punished.

However... there are players who's ran 50+ Rampages in 1 weekend and not gotten a token, and if that's not proof that the system is broken, i don't know what will convince you.

spinnytop

serpentuss said:

In my opinion the drop rate should be changed to have at least 1 token for the first completed rampage of the cycle. Cause it's already hard to bring together the people to even try to do it right now. It's totally insane

You know what would happen right? This sort of reward structure has actually been studied and documented, and what would happen is that most people would do 1 rampage per cycle, and no more. This would pretty much cripple the rampage queue.

reaperwithnoname

I wouldn't be against some sort of mechanic whereby at the end of each rampage, the game checks to see if you've gotten a token in the last, say, 15 successful rampages, and forces one to drop for you if you haven't. It would only come into play for extreme outliers, but those are the ones for whom the system isn't working.

But that's just a band-aid fix. The proper solution is guaranteed progress each rampage, with the end goal taking just as long to complete as it does on average right now. Cryptic has shown that they are unwilling to do that, or anything else to change the system. We're stuck with it.

serpentuss

reaperwithnoname#5949 said:

I wouldn't be against some sort of mechanic whereby at the end of each rampage, the game checks to see if you've gotten a token in the last, say, 15 successful rampages, and forces one to drop for you if you haven't. It would only come into play for extreme outliers, but those are the ones for whom the system isn't working.

But that's just a band-aid fix. The proper solution is guaranteed progress each rampage, with the end goal taking just as long to complete as it does on average right now. Cryptic has shown that they are unwilling to do that, or anything else to change the system. We're stuck with it.

Yeah this would be the right solution to the problem

roughbearmattach

Another good solution would be something like this:

1. Look at the average number of Rampages it takes to earn enough tokens for one piece of gear.
2. Make each Rampage automatically grant 1 token per run.
3. Make each piece of gear cost an amount of tokens equal to the average number of runs it takes anyway.

And that, essentially, is what GCR is, but without also costing Drifter Salvage.

reaperwithnoname

I already said exactly that. In two separate posts.

pwestolemyname

reaperwithnoname#5949 said:

The diminishing chance per run is a rumor (which I happen to believe based on my own anecdotal "evidence", which isn't really evidence at all, and is therefore worthless).

The diminishing chance after a successful drop, however, is kaiserin-confirmed: http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/252775/justice-gear-and-tokens/p1

THANK you! This is all I really wanted, a certification. Mucho appreciated!

pwestolemyname

And this post from Kaiserin from the referenced thread is exactly what I want to happen.

kaizerin said:

Tokens are intended to be a rare drop. You can infer this by their low drop rates (duh) and the diminishing drop rates after you get one. By extension, Justice gear is intended to be time consuming to get.



The suggestions above would make gear very easy to acquire. This would go against the intent.



Consequences of this would be harder to pop rampages since people will quickly acquire what they want (and outside of questionite there isn't much of worth in Rampages...this is a problem unto itself but is deserving of a thread of its own). This would also reduce the amount of long term goals in endgame, we don't really have many of those.



The root problem, and I have mentioned this many times in many threads, is that two of four of the rampages are boring and dumb. Suggestions I have read to 'fix' this problem never actually address the problem, but instead make it so you can avoid playing those Rampages altogether. That is not a solution.



Lemurian Invasion and Sky Command need to be looked at and fitted to the Gravitar/Fire and Ice encounter formula. You should enjoy playing them, not cringe when their icon pops up on the alert bar.







As far as token drop rates, if you want a higher drop rate something needs to change with the difficulty of the rampages. As is, they're all on farm basis and it does not take well constructed teams to conquer any of them. As mentioned the low drop rates exist to make Justice Gear time consuming to acquire, and to extend the longevity of the Rampages.



If Rampages were far more difficult, ie *required* 10 on the ball people present and had a high rate of failure, then the rewards could drop more often as more time would be spent trying to complete them.

Emphasis mine. I would take either of those solutions, or both. Make LI and SC harder and shorter and leave the drop rate as it is now. That would pretty much fix the whole problem right there.

OR Make ALL the Rampages harder and increase the drop rate. As long as it came came out the same time-investment. So, maybe you fail 50% of the time, but the drop rate is doubled. I don't think most people would like that, though, because it rewards skill and time-investment.

kaiserin

Well I wasn't a developer when I made that post.
But I can confirm that drop rates for rampage tokens lower on a character when you get a token as a drop until the next Rampage rotates in. Pretty sure Trailturtle mentioned this way back when Rampages first came out.​​

pwestolemyname

kaizerin said:

Well I wasn't a developer when I made that post.

But I can confirm that drop rates for rampage tokens lower on a character when you get a token as a drop until the next Rampage rotates in. Pretty sure Trailturtle mentioned this way back when Rampages first came out.​​

LOL Well, still a great analysis of the Rampages.

Thanks for confirming the drop drop. I looked and looked for that Trailturtle comment that many people cite, but could never find it.

spinnytop

kaizerin said:

Well I wasn't a developer when I made that post.

Being adorable won't get you out of giving in to our unreasonable demands little missy u3u

darqaura2

kaizerin said:

Well I wasn't a developer when I made that post.

But I can confirm that drop rates for rampage tokens lower on a character when you get a token as a drop until the next Rampage rotates in. Pretty sure Trailturtle mentioned this way back when Rampages first came out.​​

Yeah I can imagine the amount of work needed for what you originally wanted to do would not be trivial.

chaelk

the archived section that is missing from the PTS, is the section we are after. That's why people can't find it.​​