Passive Defense Comparisons

raighn

So I've been thinking a lot about the passive forms of defense we have and thought I'd do a few comparisons on the PTS to try and see where things stand up...

This is the result of the first round of tests with no superstats or specs... I intend to do some further testing at some point, but with how long the test for LR with VD took (kept losing stacks trying to get a successful dodge... took nearly an hour to get it to actually dodge at 5 stacks)... and the fact that I can't trigger Laser Knight or Elusive Monk at the laser testing area... it might be a while before I get any more tests done...

anyways... here's what I got using a combination of Legions & Onslaught Secondaries. 10 in all stats, no super stats or specs. With the exception of the Voracious Darkness test all tests include Defiance at 1 and 6 stacks... VD test is 2 and 6 due to how VD stacks it is impossible to get a 1:1 test with it. All tests are with R3 passives (except Defiance). I did not include the absorb from Invlun in the first round of tests due to this being a no stats initial test the absorb was insignificant (it was 2 points across the board, not worth including it' be the difference of .1% at most).

Gear Only: 20% Resistance
Tank Role Bonus: +110% Resistance

No Shield Linger
No Passive/No Dodge - 34.9% - You lose 1112 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Defiance - 45.5%~97.9% - You lose 1031 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 758 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Invuln - 74.6% - You lose 859 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Regen - 64.7% - You lose 911 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
PFF - 34.9% - Your Personal Force Field absorbs 1056 damage. You lose 56 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
LR - 207.3% - You lose 488 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.

Phalanx Defense - +10% Block
No Passive/No Dodge - 48.3% - You lose 1011 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Defiance - 59.9%~117.7% - You lose 938 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 689 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Invuln - 92.1% - You lose 781 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Regen - 81.2% - You lose 828 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
PFF - 48.3% - Your Personal Force Field absorbs 960 damage. You lose 51 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
LR - 238.6% - You lose 443 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.

Force Sheath - +5% Block or +8% Defense (debatable)
No Passive/No Dodge - 43.1% - You lose 1048 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Defiance - 53.7%~105.8% - You lose 976 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 729 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Invuln - 82.7% - You lose 821 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Regen - 72.8% - You lose 868 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
PFF - 43.3% - Your Personal Force Field absorbs 995 damage. You lose 52 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
LR - 226.8% - You lose 459 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.

TK Reinforcement - +10% Defense
No Passive/No Dodge - 51.5% - You lose 990 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Defiance - 62%~114% - You lose 926 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 701 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Invuln - 91.1% - You lose 785 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Regen - 81.2% - You lose 828 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
PFF - 51.4% - Your Personal Force Field absorbs 941 damage. You lose 50 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
LR - 245.6% - You lose 434 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.

Voracios Darkness - +10% Block per stack
No Passive/No Dodge - 48.4%~102.4% - You lose 1011 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 741 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Defiance - 71.6%~196.4% - You lose 874 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 506 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Invuln - 92.1%~162.2% - You lose 781 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 572 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
Regen - 81.2%~147.1% - You lose 828 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 607 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
PFF - 48.4%~102.4% - Your Personal Force Field absorbs 960 damage. You lose 51 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ Your Personal Force Field absorbs 704 damage. You lose 37 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.
LR - 238.6%~361.5% - You lose 443 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam. ~ You lose 325 (1500) Fire Damage from Blue Beam.


Items still on the list to test: IDF, AoRP, Laser Knight, Elusive Monk, STR PSS Juggernaut, EGO/PRE PSS Force of Will, DEX PSS Evasion, TBD+AS Loop (with various primaries), Sentry (Aura, Fortify, & Reinforce), & CoPD.

I'm not sure what stat values I should aim for with later tests that involve super stats... any suggestions?

Note: if my calculations of the final resistance values are off, please help correct them (and show the math)... I'm certain I calculated them wrong... [(1500-damage taken)/1500=?] Math has been fixed - thanks pantagruel.

Also: No I will not be doing Parsing tests, this is a test for the raw values not an average performance value test... I want to find out exactly how much different forms of passive defenses actually provide.

pantagruel01

Huh. Interesting. I've heard different stories about what layer the lingers are in, this seems to produce conclusive results:
Phalanx Defense: 10% in Block layer
Force Sheath: 8% in Normal layer
TK linger: 16% in Normal layer.
Voracious Darkness: 10%/stack in Block layer.

Demonstrating some work, using only the simpler to calculate passives:

No Linger

Normal layer defense is (base damage) / (final damage) - 1.
No Passive: 1500 / 1112 = 1.349
Defiance (max stacks): 1500 / 758 = 1.979
Regeneration: 1500 / 911 = 1.647

Note that regeneration is supposed to be +30%, so I've probably got some rounding errors showing up. This is not surprising, we only have 3 significant figures on damage.

Phalanx Defense

If phalanx defense is block layer, (no linger)/(phalanx defense) should be constant. This is in fact true:
No Passive: 1112 / 1011 = 1.10
Defiance (max stacks): 758/689 = 1.10
Regeneration: 911/828 = 1.10

Force Sheath

If force sheath is normal layer, (1500/no linger) - (1500/with linger) should be constant. This is true to within reasonable rounding errors:
No passive: 1500/1048 = 1.431 (+0.082)
Defiance(max): 1500/729 = 2.058 (+0.079)
Regeneration: 1500/868 = 1.728 (+0.081)

TK Reinforcement

Same for TK reinforcement.
No passive: 1500/990 = 1.515 (+0.166)
Defiance(max): 1500/701 = 2.140 (+0.161)
Regeneration: 1500/828 = 1.812 (0.165)

Voracious Darkness

1 stack is identical to phalanx defense, so we know it's 10%. 5 stacks is actually 5x as good:
No Passive: 1112 / 741 = 1.50
Defiance (max stacks): 758/506 = 1.50
Regeneration: 911/607 = 1.50

raighn

Seeing that Phalanx is only a 10% value makes me seriously wonder why it's a 3pt adv instead of 1pt like Force Sheathe & TK Reinforcement... when you consider that Laser Knight claims to be 33% resistance in the new description (still need a way to reliably test this) the cost for Phalanx seems a bit over the top, and the only other 10% block linger stacks up to 50% validating it's 3pt cost.

Even with that math, I can't help but feel like Force Shethe still is actually block layer, it's certainly not 10% though that's pretty clear... but it does seem to be about right for 5% block, which is actually pretty reasonable considering that it gives energy back as well (and more energy than blocking normally gives even)

pantagruel01

raighn said:

Seeing that Phalanx is only a 10% value makes me seriously wonder why it's a 3pt adv instead of 1pt like Force Sheathe & TK Reinforcement... when you consider that Laser Knight claims to be 33% resistance in the new description (still need a way to reliably test this) the cost for Phalanx seems a bit over the top, and the only other 10% block linger stacks up to 50% validating it's 3pt cost.

I'm not a big fan of Phalanx Defense, but bear in mind that it's the only block linger that doesn't reduce your damage output. Laser Knight and Elusive Monk directly reduce your damage, Force Sheath and Telekinetic Reinforcement require you to tap block every so often, Voracious Darkness requires you to actually block an attack every so often (which makes it the least convenient to maintain).

raighn said:

Even with that math, I can't help but feel like Force Shethe still is actually block layer

Well, let's test the assumption that it's block layer:

Force Sheath

If force sheath is block layer, ((no linger)/(force sheath) should be constant.
No passive: 1112/1048 = 1.061
Defiance(max): 758/729 = 1.040
Regeneration: 911/868 = 1.050

Doesn't look like block layer.

raighn

pantagruel01 said:

raighn said:

Even with that math, I can't help but feel like Force Shethe still is actually block layer

Well, let's test the assumption that it's block layer:

Force Sheath

If force sheath is block layer, ((no linger)/(force sheath) should be constant.
No passive: 1112/1048 = 1.061
Defiance(max): 758/729 = 1.040
Regeneration: 911/868 = 1.050

Doesn't look like block layer.

it is consistently close to 5% though... We'll have to see what happens when more defense is added...

pantagruel01

raighn said:

it is consistently close to 5% though.

The difference is substantially larger than the margin of error on damage values, and damage resistance is not random.