Does the Champions Universe have something similar to the Marvel Ultimate Universe?

sigmaseven0

The title says it all.

piotrtiberius

Probably not, but it depends on how you look at it.

Pen and Paper rpgs don't tend to have strong continuity between editions - nowhere near as strong as the marvel universe had. And I don't think any official sources ever created a version of the Champions universe where almost everyone was a jerk.

On the other hand, Champions Online itself has made enough alterations to the universe that you could call THIS the Ultimate Champions Universe.

bulgarex

I guess it depends on your definition.

Champions PnP was first published in 1981, but while numerous adventures, villain compendia, and other types of supplement were published over that decade, there was little attempt to tie it all into a single continuity. In the early 1990s the then-editors made some effort to unify and codify a lot of that material into a more coherent whole, with the publication of the first edition of Champions Universe.

In the mid-'90s there was a change of ownership for Hero Games, which switched the game system engine from Hero System to something called Fuzion, and launched a revised official Champions Universe designated "the New Millennium." This setting would probably be the closest to an "Ultimate" version of the CU. It used many of the same names for characters and organizations, but very often altered their backgrounds, personalities, even powers. Stylistically it was probably a little "darker" and "edgier" than what had gone before, in line with what was popular during the Iron Age of comics.

The current official Champions Universe (and there are very few continuity differences between the PnP and MMO settings, particularly in books published after the IP purchase) is another setting reboot launched by other new owners in 2002, along with a new edition of the Hero System. It's closer in style and substance to the pre-NM setting, but made much more internally consistent, and part of an overall Hero Universe timeline extending many millennia into the past, and a thousand years into the future.

All of the above is separate from superhero settings using Hero System under license which were published by other game companies over the decades, including San Angelo: City of Heroes by Gold Rush Games; The Algernon Files by Blackwyrm Games; and Strike Force, the decades-long campaign run by the late great Aaron Allston. It should also be noted that the now-defunct Guardians of Order, Inc. joined with Hero Games in publishing an official crossover adventure between their supers game setting, Silver Age Sentinels, and the Champions Universe, titled Reality Storm: When Worlds Collide. Although the characters from SAS aren't part of the Champions IP, the events of that adventure are now noted as part of the official CU timeline in the latest edition of Champions Universe.

masterproteus

Champions originally contained deliberate analogues to various comic book characters and organizations. For example, Grond is Hulk, VIPER is Cobra from GI Joe(or Hydra perhaps), Dr Destroyer is Dr Doom, Mechanon is Ultron, and so forth.

bulgarex

There are differences between the characters in those pairings, but yes, the CU characters are largely analogues, or at least homages, to those published comic heroes/villains/groups. Similarly, Nighthawk is an homage/analogue to Batman, Vanguard to Superman, Black Harlequin to the Joker (with some Toyman thrown in), the Star*Guard to the Green Lantern Corps, etc.

markhawkman

Defender is analogous to Iron Man in powers, but more like Captain America in personality.

bulgarex

It's probably more accurate to say that there are elements of known comics characters in many Champions heroes and villains, and that some of them fill similar roles in the CU as other characters do in their universes. But there's also quite a bit that's unique to the CU, and even the most familiar analogues and homages have some distinctive twist to them.

The designers of the current setting wanted something distinctive, but also familiar and comfortable to readers of mainstream comics.

jonsills

Did the first edition of Champions, back in '81, include VIPER? Because according to a little quick research, COBRA didn't come into existence until a year later... ​​

canadascott

jonsills said:

Did the first edition of Champions, back in '81, include VIPER? Because according to a little quick research, COBRA didn't come into existence until a year later... ​​

VIPER is pretty much a contemporary with COBRA, and both are obviously inspired by Marvel's Hydra, Captain America's current organization.

jonsills

Oh, and as an aside, Scott, you're cited in the Wikipedia article on the history of Champions (you apparently were highly complimentary about the point-buy system in a review you wrote for Dragon, back in '82 ).​​

bulgarex

A big part of Champions history IS Scott Bennie. A lot of what you see in CO is based on some of his extensive creations for the PnP game.

markhawkman

Wait... Scott is one of the PnP writers? O_o'

canadascott

jonsills said:

Oh, and as an aside, Scott, you're cited in the Wikipedia article on the history of Champions (you apparently were highly complimentary about the point-buy system in a review you wrote for Dragon, back in '82 ).​​

The three major reviews of Champs at launch were written by me in Dragon, Aaron Allston in Space Gamer. and Steve Perrin in Different Worlds. All three of us went on to become writers on the Champs line.

Also, about once every year, Steve Peterson or Bruce Harlick posts " guy you wouldn't believe goes fanboy on him" story. It's cool to see the influence of the line.

bulgarex

markhawkman said:

Wait... Scott is one of the PnP writers? O_o'

Scott Bennie's Bio and Professional Game Credits. Everything listed between "Champions/Hero Games" and "Dungeons and Dragons (TSR)" was written for Champions/Hero System PnP.

If your adventures in Champions Online have included fighting VIPER or journeying to Canada, you've encountered stuff based on Scott's work.