Tank Build - Might or Regen?

sovereignbreeze

Hi everyone!

I wanted to bring my old tank back from my days in COH. Long backstory short, he was related to Statesman in some capacity so he got all of his hand me down costume pieces and thus went by the name "Sovereign Breeze". He was a willpower(regen)/super strength tank. He was virtually impossible to kill as a tank be it in pvp or in pve content. His damage wasn't terrible either. He had an AOE (ground slam) and his main damage power was a wind up super uppercut.

I wanted to bring him in some form to the Champions World so he could live on, but I just haven't gotten the hang of the tanking system.

I thought I could make him , but I just don't understand the Might tree at all. I had a little better luck with regeneration but he was still missing something.

@flowcyto , thanks for helping me with my last builds. They actually worked out great with the elec/fire elec/force build. I really appreciate your help.

Here is my current Sovereign Breeze Build (I know it kind of sucks) :

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Superhuman
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Martial Focus
Level 12: Enduring
Level 15: Energetic
Level 18: Mighty
Level 21: Tireless

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo
Level 6: Defiance
Level 8: Enrage
Level 11: Uppercut
Level 14: Haymaker
Level 17: Aggressor
Level 20: Conviction
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Unbreakable
Level 29: Energy Shield
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

I have his gear as following:

Heroic Breastplate of Defense - Strength Armoring 7 (2), Impact Prism 7
Vigilante's Bolstering Bracer
Legion's Glove of Piercing - Strength Enhancement 7, Constitution Enhancement 7, Gamblers Lucky Gem 7, Impact Prism 7
Sturdy Belt
Vigilante's Efficient Eyepiece
Legions Helmet of Efficiency - Constitution Enhancement 7 , Strength Armoring 7 , Veterans Core of Might, Impact Prism 7

flowcyto

Well, the question is a bit confusing, since Might is a full powerset and 'Regen' when applied to CO means a single defensive passive in Infernal SN (that you'd likely be choosing over another passive, like Defiance).

You seem to have made a normal Might tank thus far, which is fine, but I'm unsure if ya wanted to work Regen in there instead. Ya could do that, but the main diff between Regen and Defiance is that ya dun normally rank up Defiance and its better for bigger hits, while Regen is better vs. smaller hits but is best ranked up. You'd also need to stick in another energy source if dropping Defiance, as its the only defensive passive that will give you extra energy for being hit. Defiance also scales solely via Constitution, while Regen scales w/ ur SS's (like normal passives do).

A Might tank using Haymaker and Defiance + Enrage can get away w/o using an Energy Unlock (EU), but a Regen tank doing the same will likely will want an EU. Molec Self-Assembly (MSA) + a cd like Conviction and/or a lunge is the universal EU answer, but in light of the changes to Heavy Weapons ya could get away w/ using Thermal Reverb by sticking in Eruption w/ its special adv. Then you can also use Brimstone w/ adv as the main AoE (AoE for pure Might + Enrage builds is patchy, but Brimstone is good if ya can import it- can also ditch the weapon look via the imaginary heavy weapon skin ya can get during Foxbatcon.

Also, keep in mind that Laser Knight's duration can fall off when using full charges of Haymaker, just cause the buff is short. Its still a good block linger for melee, but won't have 100% uptime when chain-charging Haymakers.

Keeping the pure Might route, though, here's how I'd flesh it out:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Boundless Reserves
Level 12: Bodybuilder
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Amazing Stamina

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Defiance
Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 11: Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Mighty Leap
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Better You Than Me)
Level 29: Shockwave (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 32: Energy Shield (Laser Knight)
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Rebirth

Travel Powers:
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Added Shockwave cause you mentioned ground pounding. Brimstone is similar, if ya take out the weapon, but I didn't mix in Heavy Weapon stuff for this version.

sovereignbreeze

Oh, I didn't know you could take out the weapon on the Heavy Weapon Ground Slam! That's a great idea!

@flowcyto , do you think Strength as the main SS is the way to go for the tank-iness? I saw someone in game say that Con was better for the defiance stack.

I don't have to have him as a Regen tank. In fact, Statesman in COH wasn't an INVUL tank I just went with a different approach to not "copy" him totally. I could change it it, but my concern is losing health and gaining health back in a fight. Regen I didn't have to worry about it so much and I always had a "heal" power on cool down in case I got really low.

pantagruel01

sovereignbreeze said:

Oh, I didn't know you could take out the weapon on the Heavy Weapon Ground Slam!

You can't in general, but Foxbatcon is currently running, you might want to try and get the Imaginary Weapons.

sovereignbreeze

pantagruel01 said:

sovereignbreeze said:

Oh, I didn't know you could take out the weapon on the Heavy Weapon Ground Slam!

You can't in general, but Foxbatcon is currently running, you might want to try and get the Imaginary Weapons.

Is it a quest reward?

pantagruel01

sovereignbreeze said:

Is it a quest reward?

It's something you get from the Foxbatcon vendor. You can get the required tokens from quests, though.

raighn

On a similar line several of the Martial Arts powers make good subsitutes for Might as well... An option that I've personally been using for one of my tanks is Dragon Claws with the imaginary weapons, it looks like a supercharged beatdown... and if you take a focus form and Dex it will yield a nice energy return... There's also Dragon Uppercut which will yield the same sort of results without the need for imaginary wepons, and it's generally regarded as the better choice over mights Uppercut...

flowcyto

Uppercut in Might is still nice for getting a burst of early Enrage stacks when paired w/ Haymaker, though. DU is good, but I'd prob save it for a build more focused on MA/finesse attacks.

As to the earlier question about Con vs. Str: for gearing ya want to focus on Con the most- esp if using Defiance, though still gearing some Str for Enrage (maybe ~200 Str or so by lvl 40 gearing standards). As far as SS choices, however, Strength is considered more versatile a PSS tree for melee tanks over Con PSS - thanks to Juggernaut giving you much extra Defense via gearing Con, and cause Str PSS provides more dps/threat than Con PSS.

Con PSS is still decent for tanks, but Str PSS tends to have more bonuses overall.

And for the Foxbat event: iirc ya get 2 quests from the mayor (in the center of RenCen near the stage and event vendors) for like 50-70 foxbat cred each upon completion. One daily has you finding fake Foxbats around the city, and the other quest has you buying stuff from certain on the northside to meet w/ Foxbat himself in his penthouse. I'd prob look up a guide or old thread for the event, but you still have some time (event closes on the 14th of this month, iirc).

wiki link for the event:
http://www.championswiki.com/index.php?title=Foxbat_Event
map to find all the foxbats:
http://www.championswiki.com/index.php?title=Find_All_Foxbats

sovereignbreeze

I changed the build a tweak, I did change shockwave for Brimstone with the challenging strike. I'm much more tanky and have my defense at about 108% res to all damage with tons of CON stacked in my armor. My offense is high around 600 ish. I am working on getting Justice gear now so I can make those stats higher.


PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Enduring
Level 9: Mighty
Level 12: Bodybuilder
Level 15: Boundless Reserves
Level 18: Physical Conditioning
Level 21: Amazing Stamina

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Defiance
Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 11: Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Mighty Leap
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Masterful Dodge
Level 26: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Better You Than Me)
Level 29: Shockwave (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 32: Energy Shield (Laser Knight)
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Palliate (Rank 2)

Travel Powers:
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (2/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (1/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (1/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Strength: Overpower (1/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Slaughter (1/3)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (1/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Keep in mind that Offense diminishes pretty heavily w/ Ward_Guardicatoir specs. Its nice for the offense/defense loop, but I'd still prob get crit rating and severity on offensive gear, as you won't be heavy into crit's DR as is.

Also, Bionic Shielding is prob a better backup heal for a tank like this than Palliate. Palliate's best used, imo, for the threat wipe adv, not so much for the long cd on the heal. I'd prob also get 2/2 Brutality and crit rating on gear over 1/2 and 1/3 in Overpower.

sovereignbreeze

flowcyto said:

Keep in mind that Offense diminishes pretty heavily w/ Ward_Guardicatoir specs. Its nice for the offense/defense loop, but I'd still prob get crit rating and severity on offensive gear, as you won't be heavy into crit's DR as is.

Also, Bionic Shielding is prob a better backup heal for a tank like this than Palliate. Palliate's best used, imo, for the threat wipe adv, not so much for the long cd on the heal. I'd prob also get 2/2 Brutality and crit rating on gear over 1/2 and 1/3 in Overpower.

Thanks for the feedback. I will try those changes to see how it goes. I had thought about the bionic shielding so that just confirms my original thought on it

dirtydwarf68

At what number do you think offense starts getting hit with some heavy DR penalties?

flowcyto

If using Ward/Guardicator, pretty much automatically once ya get decent gear at higher levels. Avenger + Vind specs can also get somewhat heavily into it w/ RA + Aggressive Stance + gear, as well as Warden + Guardian for 2x TBD (though that's not a combo I'd usually advise, still better than some other spec combos). For most other setups, ur Offense won't be very high just via specs, but since Offense is in the same layer as crit severity in the formula, for many builds going higher severity and crit rating will lead better results.

Detail formula and graph, derived by Jimhsua, can be found in this thread (top reply on pg2):

http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/247878/gift-horse/p2
(keep in mind that the old Offense formula was in a lower layer; the curve looks better for it, but it gave even less return back then for geared FFs)

dirtydwarf68

Thanks