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https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/best-superhero-online-game-is.270836/
Champs faithful accuse me of being a DCUO fanboy, but even I found this funny hahaha. DC was beaten out not only by Champions and Marvel's "MMORPG" but a puzzle game. DC fans are not liking that poll.
http://www.mmogames.com/topmmos/best-superhero-online-game/
Maybe I was wrong? Looks like people do prefer Champs over DCUO. You can take it with a grain of salt, but I was pleasantly surprised. Champions Online is still beloved. And by the way, good job on those animal parts. Everyone knows how much I likes thee animal features hehe. The scorpion tail look sweet.
Champs faithful accuse me of being a DCUO fanboy, but even I found this funny hahaha. DC was beaten out not only by Champions and Marvel's "MMORPG" but a puzzle game. DC fans are not liking that poll.
http://www.mmogames.com/topmmos/best-superhero-online-game/
Maybe I was wrong? Looks like people do prefer Champs over DCUO. You can take it with a grain of salt, but I was pleasantly surprised. Champions Online is still beloved. And by the way, good job on those animal parts. Everyone knows how much I likes thee animal features hehe. The scorpion tail look sweet.
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Epic Stronghold
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Not surprised with MHO getting top spot. That company literally trolls for polls anytime one goes up they ensure their fanbase knows about it on their front page, forums, announcements, in game, and I've even received emails about em. They are hardcore pressed to make sure they get their fans to vote.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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and to vote for it?
whats interesting, is with the 10,000's of players on Marvel and Dcuo, that's the amount of votes they got.
sounds like nobody advertised it on the forums this year
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I wouldn't say polls don't matter, but they really are hard to gauge when no one promotes said polls. As I said, MHO trolls the hell out of those polls, like constantly. So I am not shocked to see them with so many votes. I am surprised CO beat out DCUO though.
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Only a tiny fraction of players from both games participated and incidentally CO had a bigger number of voters, though not by much. That's all that can be shown factually. It doesn't prove a majority of players have that preference, also not forgetting that DCUO is a multi-platform MMO.
Discreditting polls is kind of silly. The only one that can't be gauged accurately by the poll data is MHO, and that's because they troll for polls and advertise the crap out of them on their forums, game and emails.
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Good is subjective, but, I will not say it is. It's a decent Diablo clone, the word decent being subjective, but all it is is a loot grab, often mistakenly dressed up as an MMO, which it isn't really. MHOs up voting is thanks to bandwagon. Since Gazillion always, again, makes sure to troll for said polls. Which is kind of funny to me, since they throw their other game, Super Hero Squad Online, under the bus like they are ashamed of it. It's basically ballot box stuffing when you know no one else has gotten the message.
If I were to consider it either way, Overwatch, considering I've actually played it, is a far superior and more enjoyable game than MHO, but because it's not out yet, and I seriously doubt people are associating it with super heroes despite it has that over tone, well you can see where that leads. Then you have Hero Zero, Avengers Academy, and Marvel War of Heroes, all three of which I didn't even know about so they are n't likely to get any up votes, and quite frankly, only seem to have been added to the list for just because reasons.
If I were to give an actual rating, and I considered said list a valid list, Overwatch would probably be the top game, because I enjoy it (and I hate FPS games) and it's fun. With Champion now receiving attention, new stuff and content I would actually give it second place, where as Marvel Heroes might get third, but because realistically Marvel Heroes only offers loot grinding and noting else with no customizable characters, that would actually lower it on my rating list, and may even put it under DCUO, since even though it sucks, they at least give me a choice to make my own hero. I could care less about playing some established character.
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I mean, maybe, just maybe, a good majority of people might be putting better use with their time in actually enjoying the game they play rather than waste their time on silly obscure polls.
How about we all just take a moment to enjoy the fact that, without any promotion or even mention of the poll on our forums, we ended up in 2nd place.
To add to the reasons this poll seems silly, let's take a look at this line:
"For that reason we’ve expanded our search to mobile games where Marvel is quite frankly, killing it."
run that through the translater...
"We rigged this poll so that Marvel would win."
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This is how seriously it should be taken.
It's not inaccurate actually. If you actually look at the entire tone and theme of Overwatch, you will see a lot of super hero parallels. It would not shock me that Project: Titan was actually a super hero MMO in the making before they abandoned the MMO part to make it into the FPS shooter it is now.
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I think there is a difference between squinting and things being there. Go watch some of the Overwatch trailers. It is very super hero style.
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So yeah, Overwatch has no business being in the poll.
Well then by those standards neither do the other games since all of them are the same thing, just bad guy beat em up simulators with no real heroing or investigative stuff going on. When you try to put it that narrow you might as well eliminate all of the competition then.
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Epic Stronghold
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So tell me what do you do in Marvel Heroes? DCUO? Champions Online? I can't say much for the other games, but there's no detective work, there is very little if any saving people, and you certainly are not taking your Batman-esque character secretly around to take out the brains of the operation, but instead plowing through waves of bad guys. That's all the heroes do in these games. I mean hell, if you really want to get to the meat of it, in these MMOs our heroes ignore simple due process, and basically beat up every bad guy around us just because they are flagged that way, even though the worst crime they are doing in the game is loitering.
If one of them had a shred to do more of what Batman Arkham games did (not Arkham Knight that was just mostly a driving simulator) then sure, but saying Overwatch doesn't follow the same established tropes as the other titles on your list? Dressing in a costume, and beating up perceived bad guys is something even fantasy games do well, so it's hardly a super hero trope.
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...what was my point again? u3u
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To be a proper superhero setting, you do need a collection of tropes, but not "any three will do". Probably the most important is that you have to have a world that recognizes super-powered do-gooders as "superheroes". Super-powered by way of evolution, technology, magic, whatever. Even if not known to the public, they need to be recognized by someone as superheroes. Even if there's just one superhero in the universe. Then some others come into play. Costume - not just armor, mind you - is pretty important. Dual identity. Crime-fighting. There are more, and you don't have to check every box, but the setting has to be about superheroes or recognize that they exist, otherwise you just have a list of people who are heroes, whether they have "powers" or not.
Overwatch is about an international task force made of people who can do extraordinary things. These things alone don't make a superhero. Unless you squint real hard.
Have you seen Supernatural? It's about two guys that go around and fight ghosts. They have basically secret identities. They do what they do because it's the right thing to do and don't get paid for it. They certainly check off several of the required tropes, don't they? But are they superheroes? No. Try and tell anyone that Supernatural is a superhero show and they'll laugh in your face.
Have you seen Futurama? For the most part the main characters are nothing out of the ordinary (in terms of abilities), but Bender is super strong and is 40% dolomite. Sometimes, he uses his abilities for good. Does this make him a superhero? Let's keep in mind that this is a world that has seen a man in tights flying in the sky in more than one occasion. The answer is still no, though.
At one point in the series, Fry and Leela find a cream that gives them super powers. They decide to put on costumes and fight crime. Now they fit the superhero bill. But what about Bender? He didn't need the cream because he's super strong and has telescopic arms. Nothing changed about him, except he took on a new identity as Super King and put on a costume. At that point, he became a superhero, even though nothing about him changed other than putting on a costume. After that episode, he was no longer a superhero. Even when he became a godly being.
There are nuances and tropes that all together make a superhero setting, and Overwatch doesn't have them. You don't need to do detective work to be a hero. You are saving people, like the scientists in the sewers, or lifting heavy building chunks off of them. Even the basic street sweeping is saving people by ridding the streets of criminals (let's suspend disbelief here and acknowledge that the mobs respawning are a necessity of a video game, because you can't have only one person ever be able to complete a mission.
But even if Overwatch had all these things, it doesn't have a setting with the matching tropes that altogether makes them superheroes, in a world that recognizes them as such.
If we want to be loose about what makes a superhero setting, I have a very compelling argument about the movie Powder and how its titular character is a superhero.
- Not a fantasy setting.
- Heroes and villains have super powers.
- Super Powers are typically one-offs, you don't have a legion of them.
- Supers are generally solo actors, not leaders of armies.
- Supers wear colorful costumes.
- Superheroes serve good, not law.
In any case, let's look at the characters that have been most used in Blizzard cinematics:- Tracer: teleporter and time traveler.
- Winston: super-intelligent genetically engineered gorilla (might as well be Dr Silverback).
- Reaper: villain. Has the ability to turn incorporeal as a black mist.
- Widowmaker: villain, sniper. Does not clearly have superpowers, though has altered physiology and blue skin for some reason.
Then let's look at the cinematics:Epic Stronghold
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Yeah, I rest my case.
Overwatch does look a lot of like a modern take on superhero theme. Kinda in line with what the Big Two are doing when they feel like going slightly futuristic.
The colorful costume thing isn't really a must-have. I mean, just starting with batman, and ending with lots of newer superheroes.
I get that these guys fit many of the tropes, but it's not a simple checklist. These characters don't fit into my criteria and won't consider them as such, especially just because some poll site thinks they are.
In my opinion, you have to have a setting that recognizes that "superheroes" are a thing. Not just "I recognize that that dude over there can do things a normal human can't." An exception to this could be a one-superhero world, which is totally feasible, but the characters and setting have to have some of the other tropes to carry it.
Also I'd argue that there doesn't have to be supervillains per se. Any superhero can be challenged by non-super circumstances. Not every superhero is superman, able to wipe out an entire army and survive a nuke to the face.
Finally, I could see a proper fantasy setting that has superheroes. Heck, a superhero could be flung into a fantasy alternate dimension and spend the rest of his superhero life there. It wouldn't make it less superheroic. If captain caveman went back to his time, he'd still be a superhero, too.
But like I said, the setting is a big part of it, but not the beginning and end of it.
Sorry to say it, but this sounds a lot of like your standard template superhero universe.
The aesthetics are modern, but the only template they don't fit is a narrow Silver Age window.
The genre (any genre, really) IS a simple checklist and characters in the Overwatch hit most of it.
Now I really wish Blizzard made it into an mmo.
Heck, now when I'm givint it a second look, their bios are pretty cool read. Say whatever you want about the World of Fastfood, but Blizzard knows how to hire good writers (or at the very least, a passable ones).
Don't know why people want to shoehorn the term superhero onto stuff for the most arbitrary of reasons, but have it your way, Burger King.
Epic Stronghold
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By criterias of "your checklist" only few modern books aside of a very traditional legacy heroes who are still wearing old costumes fits the genre.
The Overwatch graphics are a bit stylised and "cinematic" in regards how much embellishment and armor they wear, but it only means that they aren't dated.
I'm sorry, but the world moved, publishers moved and the genre also moved with its aesthetics as well. It doesn't have to fit your personal definition to be valid. Quite a few Overwatch things look like something from the Avengers Academy or modern X-books. Some of these tights visible under their armor could be as well drawn by Chris Anka.
I don't care about MOBA games, but people who voted it within the genre weren't any more wrong than you.
The poll still sucks, though. The voting population is a sample too small to indicate anything, and I'm willing to bet that there was a heavy bias against DCUO because mmo sites are populated mostly by PC players with DCUO console players population very likely missing in this poll.
See? Superhero.
Also, again you're grasping straws with Super Mario the same way you did with Peter Pan.
You're throwing a fit because modern state of the genre don't fit your criterias, that's all.
Guardians of the Galaxy fit just fine. First of all, they're part of a superhero universe that recognizes that superheroes are a thing. Remember, that's one of the biggest criteria I mention. Second of all, most of them are aliens with superpowers or extraordinary fighting ability. And how does Hulkbuster armor not fit? I don't see where you're going with all that.
You noticed this girl in the Overwatch who's using a small personal mecha/armor?
Also...
"First of all, they're part of a superhero universe that recognizes that superheroes are a thing. Remember, that's one of the biggest criteria I mention."
But the Overwatch using a an ordinary world setting with powered costumed individuals is not fit for the same standards.
Because why... Their promo materials aren't using terms "metahuman" or "super hero"?
Newsflash - back when the genre started these terms also weren't used. It took some decades before it settled down.
You basically reduced the genre to - "only when it's labeled as such".
That's a criteria even more primitive than going through the checklist. Literally the only way to create a superhero setting is being a total copycat of the Big Two down to labels.
I don't think so.
An interesting question when it comes from someone who's doing an olympic level of mental gymnastics in this topic... You're doing literally everything to avoid the elephant in the room - that neither Peter Pan or Super Mario are set in a semi-real setting. They don't use any explicitly superhero tropes. They use hero tropes. same that are shared by any fiction, from D&D to Star Wars.
Champions Universe
Astro City
City of Heroes
Marvel
DC
Now look at the kind of setting they're using. All of them. These are not fantasy neverlands. At worst they're a very near future.
And yes, I think it has to be a setting that recognizes them as such. I don't care when the genre started, when they came up with the monicker, I believe that it's something that's required. Don't care how primitive you think that is. To me, it's an important way to define the genre, because otherwise it's all blurred lines. When you blur the lines so much, you're creating confusion for no practical reason. It becomes all-inclusive to the point where there's no delineation between the characters within it.
So really, you think I'm being ridiculous with Peter Pan? Okay, let's rein it in a little. GI Joe. Are they superheroes? Many of them have abilities that are like Batman, and he's a superhero. They also wear costumes and some of them, masks. They also fight villains that have sometimes used magic (correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time since I've seen the cartoons) or other supernatural abilities. So, several criteria checked off. Superheroes?
Star Wars. Are the Jedi superheroes? They wear costumes, some wear masks, they have abilities beyond normal people's, and fight against evil space sorcerers. Superheroes?
The Survivors in Fallout. They can literally gun down hundreds of armed men without dying, can mutate to harness the power of radiation, and harness other strange powers like being able to command animals. Also, there are at least 3 other superheroes in that setting that I know of, so that's taken care of. Fights against super mutants. Is he a superhero?
What do you consider a semi-real setting? Superheroes can exist outside of the Earth we know. And Neverland (from my understanding of it) is an imaginary place. But, Peter Pan does venture into the real world. So how is that semi-real? He's a character that existed inside the reality of its universe. What makes the Mushroom Kingdom semi-real? The fact that it's cartoony? Darkwing Duck and Freakazoid exist only in cartoons. The Awesomes are also only cartoon.
Also, what are your specifically-superhero tropes?
A baseline archetypical setting for superheroes is a "world outside your window" except with alterations for making things like hidden lands and magical tribes possible. At worst it's also "twenty minutes into the future".
Other settings may exist in the same continuity, like other planets or alternative dimentions, but they're spin-offs.
Also, G.I.Joe never made any claims to superhero genre, not any more than James Bond. Within their continuity they're normal humans, just a very well trained normal humans. Pretty much like Cobra household names. Nobody there has superpowers, nor they exist in a world full of metahumans. Their costumes are cheesy variations of tacticool gear, ninja outfits or (hiya, Baroness!) fetish gear. If anything, G.I.Joe is a toy-ified example of the same genre with Rambo or Commando. Sometimes with james Bond. More like A-Team.
And "in before" - neither are Transformers despite being (sometimes) set on a modern Earth galactic backwater. It's a space opera, everyone knows it. Their iconic characters aren't even superpowered when compared to the rest of their population.
There's your problem.
You take your opinion as a genre definition, except the world by large doesn't care.
Blurring of the lines is in your eye only. You had fairly universal checklists and criterias in this topic, but you disregarded them all because you prefer your personal labels.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I'm guessing you're meaning to say that it has to be set in a somewhat realistic world that is congruent with our own world. So where does that leave superheroes that don't live in mostly-realistic settings? They're not superheroes? But you don't have to have superpowers to be a superhero. We know this because of Batman and many other "powerless" superheroes, so saying "Nobody there has superpowers" is almost the same as saying "the world has to recognize that superheroes exist." And I don't care what their costumes are variations of, costumes are costumes. Black Widow isn't so much different than Baroness in looks or ability. This is absolutely ironic or hypocritical. Take your pick. You're using your opinion of the genre to say that mine is wrong. There's no hard-and-fast rules as to what makes the genre, since not all superheroes share the same tropes. Bright costume, crime fighting, secret identity, superpowers... you can have superheroes that have none of that. That's why to me, the setting is important. And within that setting, there needs to be that understanding that superheroes are a thing.
Unless you can find me the absolutely defining list of things that make the superhero genre that covers absolutely everything that's considered (by you or me) superheroes, then you're doing the exact same thing I am; taking your own understanding of what it means for a character to be a superhero and using that to back your argument.
And no, I didn't disregard all the "fairly universal checklists." I didn't tell Pantagruel he was wrong, I just argued differing opinions. I'm not going around like "You're wrong and I'm angry about it, raaaar!"
Now again, I wonder what sort of practical reason do you have for making sure that Overwatch is a superhero game? Is it just so you can argue for it to be on this list?
In all seriousness - Cryptic games have the market cornered on customization. You want to be a fire casting Rabbit-Dragon hybrid in purple tights? Then this is the game for you. So not surprised that CO ranked as highly as it did.
I just wish that CO (and all it's customization goodies) was advertised more. Despite the game age, customization is an appealing feature.
You had it listed in this topic, seriously.
Your stubborness and denial aren't even smart or funny at this point.
Superpowered individuals OR badass normals.
Costumed.
In a fairly real world setting (their setting isn't really much different than, let's say, Millenium City).
Separated between good and bad, color themed, and even organised into a freakin supergroup.
Really, you play the words pretending it's smart but it's just denial on your side.
It hits all points on the genre checklist and you're pointing at the game coming without a "superhero" word in description.
If a movie was made out of it critics would call it a superhero movie.
You think I don't have a practical reason?
I've got all practical reasons.
You only point at lack of a one or two specific words...
And the best defense you ever came in this topic was a reduction to absurd and declaration that if this game fits the genre without having a "superhero" label explicitly slapped on it then everything fits the genre, from the Peter Pan to Mario Bros.
This is comedy gold.
Geez, this game fits the genre classics more than Snyder's last movie if you strip his lunacy from DC trademarks.
I propose we'll end this exchange because there's no way I can agree with you. This is impossible. I still have some working logic left here and I'd rather keep it intact...
The Overwatch fits the bill, literally only one thing it lacks is a trademark of a known superhero franchise or being as blatant copycat with tags removed as is CU. Period.
Actually I'm half tempted to draw a Superman knockoff doing Superman-y stuff only so I can never use a superhero terminology in it. I'm not sure into what genre it'll fit, but maybe by accident I'll invent something new and original - surely it won't be a superhero character, after all.