Collision Force

raighn

I started working on a new character this morning, a Might/Force build... It's an idea an old SG mate gave me several years ago that I had initially attempted on Pulse but later gave up on when I redesigned her... now I'm looking to rekindle the concept with a whole new character...

PowerHouse   (Link to this build)

Name: Collision Force

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Ego (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Mountain
Level 6: Body and Mind
Level 9: Impressive Physique
Level 12: Academics
Level 15: Martial Training
Level 18: Covert Ops Training
Level 21: Field Ops Training

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Force Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Roomsweeper (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Mighty Leap
Level 14:
Level 17:
Level 20:
Level 23:
Level 26:
Level 29:
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics
Level 35:

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (1/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

Thats about as far as I've gotten with the build so far... i'm undecicive as to if I want to go Hybrid DPS or build into a PFF tank...

raighn

any suggestions or help?

flowcyto

Eh, not much to the build yet. Were ya planning on using Haymaker or FC heavily here? More being melee than at ranged? Using melee for ST dps, ranged for AoE?

Few ways to tackle this, but may need more specifics.

raighn

I was actually planning on using Haymaker heavily... and yea melee ST and Ranged AoE... primarily melee most likely...

I've tried doing primarily ranged on a melee/ranged hybrid before it doesn't work very well... in fact my old Might/Force build that I had for Pulse originally was primarily ranged... melee felt tacked on and clunky when the build was primarily ranged...

TBH I actually want to drop Roomsweeper from the build... but I don't know what would be a good substitute... for now it's really just there as a filler for leveling until I can get Haymaker and put something else in that level slot...

flowcyto

Well, one main issue of mixing Force + anything melee is that Force has many KBs. Ya can mitigate that by using Force for things like Force Geyser, Force Shield, PFF, etc.

Roomsweeper is good if using Enrage, though you prob want an AoE CC to pair with it so it becomes a KU instead of a KB. Up to you if ya wanna take that play style or not.

Unfortunately, Force's best AoE scatters like crazy. Could settle for Crushing Wave, as the special adv can proc Enrage, but CW isn't very strong either.

If ya dun mind it being in a diff powerset, Energy Wave w/ Rev Polarity can be used to offset any scattering. EW looks pretty Force-like as is.

raighn

TBH, I really don't mind the knocks, nor do I see them as a real issue... especially since if I pump enough points into Str & Ego anything that does get knocked will more than likely die from the fall... plus the habit NPCs have of running right back to where they were knocked from... any survivors will just come right back...

flowcyto

Well, I would consider large KB's an issue to a melee build and to team play, but to each their own.

W/ Force and Might.. their AoE is not one-all. Force's can be good burst dps, but costly and scatters to make follow-ups bad, and the non-scatter options (Eruption taps, CW) are a bit weak. Might's AoE is all over the place, but not one power really covers all aspects well. Both sets have similar AoE issues, imo, which is why I typically don't care much for Force + Might builds.

So I dunno. What powers aside from Haymaker did ya want to use the most? Did ya want to keep Force Blast in there as ur CripC applicant? Do you want Force Geyser and/or Detonation? Keep FC in? and if so, only for alpha strikes?

raighn

Force Blast I would indeed like to keep, it's actually multi-purpose for me... if I build into a tank it's both a potentil CripC power and it's a good ranged filler for when targets are scattered or any other reason I may need to switch to ranged (such as fights against close range knock heavy bosses that ignore knock resistance)...

I don't think I'll actually have the energy for FC tbh... and it'd get such little use that I'm not sure it'd be worth including...

I've got a build that uses Detonation & Force Gyeser in deadly combination with high stacked Ego... it really can be a rather potent combination against enemies that are not knock immune... and with enough ego and good timing it's actually possible to pick off individual enemies from groups by hitting them with geyser then detonating them at the peak of the knockup to knock them out of a group (and frequently out of the fight all together)

I should probably get a good PBAoE to put CS on... in this case I don't really want to throw enemies all over the place when working with PBAoEs so Eruption is not really a good choice for this... Considering Havoc Stomp, but I could actually fit Energy Wave thematically... that said, the Gravitational Polarity buff from Eruption could still prove useful...

flowcyto

The dmg bonus from Grav Polarity is in the earliest layer, sadly, so its not really worth the trouble, imo. Force Eruption taps are good for quickly tagging things w/ CS, but the dps isn't great and ya still have to half-charge+ if using Enrage or Conc for stacks. Havoc Stomp isn't high dps either, but when tapped its not disruptive. Ya could try a EW w/ Rev Polarity -> Stomp spam setup for AoE. Works pretty well, even if the dps isn't that good either; ya could also build up AoE knock resist that way and then use Haymaker or Roomsweeper vs. trash w/o remorse.

So for ST dps.. maybe have Haymaker as ur main filler, Force Blast for CripC (and other things), and I guess Geyser for MSA? Still prob want a lunge, though, and that could have CripC and proc MSA too, but also means ur using less Force powers vs. bosses.

I had a Force dps FF I leveled w/o relying on FC. It was actually pretty good, and quite fun to knock stuff around, and then blast stuff w/ a Detonation once they become knock immune. The 2x Force Blast taps + Geyser + Detonation combo is satisfying, if nothing else. W/o FC, Force doesn't have strong dps, but here Haymaker can make up for that.

raighn

sounds like a plan... so how does this look?

PowerHouse   (Link to this build)

Name: Collision Force

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Ego (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Mountain
Level 6: Body and Mind
Level 9: Impressive Physique
Level 12: Academics
Level 15: Martial Training
Level 18: Covert Ops Training
Level 21: Field Ops Training

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Force Blast (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Force Geyser
Level 11: Mighty Leap
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Energy Wave (Reverse Polarity)
Level 26: Force Detonation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Challenging Strikes)
Level 32: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 35: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Masterful Dodge (Unfettered Strikes)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics
Level 35:

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (1/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

I believe that EW can have CS on it too now, though that's not really necessary either. Ya prob should still find room to put MSA in there (would prob replace the lunge, Detonation, or Geyser for it), and Unfettered Strikes isn't really worth it due to MD's lower uptime (the dmg bonus isn't fully multiplicative anyways).

The build will also be a bit knock-prone as is, but that can also be worked around. Locus imo isn't worth it if ur main attacks are Haymaker and/or Force Blast. I'd prob just max Fortified Gear instead. Ego 2ndary SS also isn't adding much here, though I suppose ya want the extra knock strength.

For the most part, though, the build looks pretty good.

raighn

flowcyto said:

I believe that EW can have CS on it too now, though that's not really necessary either. Ya prob should still find room to put MSA in there (would prob replace the lunge, Detonation, or Geyser for it), and Unfettered Strikes isn't really worth it due to MD's lower uptime (the dmg bonus isn't fully multiplicative anyways).

The build will also be a bit knock-prone as is, but that can also be worked around. Locus imo isn't worth it if ur main attacks are Haymaker and/or Force Blast. I'd prob just max Fortified Gear instead. Ego 2ndary SS also isn't adding much here, though I suppose ya want the extra knock strength.

For the most part, though, the build looks pretty good.

I just checked in game since the powerhouse website doesn't have CS available on EW, and your right it can have CS now... >.< I knew I was forgetting something... I really do need to weed out some powers honestly...

I think I'll drop detonation and geyser in favor of MSA & Gravity Driver...

PowerHouse   (Link to this build)

Name: Collision Force

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
Level 15: Ego (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Mountain
Level 6: Body and Mind
Level 9: Impressive Physique
Level 12: Academics
Level 15: Martial Training
Level 18: Covert Ops Training
Level 21: Field Ops Training

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Force Blast (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 11: Mighty Leap
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Energy Wave (Reverse Polarity, Challenging Strikes)
Level 26: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 29: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Gravity Driver (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics
Level 35:

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

Only issue w/ dropping both Geyser and Detonation is that you need to lunge (or use Conviction) for a short-cd for MSA, though from a practical standpoint that works fine. Grav Driver is alright, though only if ya wanna be more team-oriented; I usually wouldn't expect a tank to do some team support, but if its ur cup of tea then go for it. If ya have to pick one AoE for CS, though, I'd prob take Stomp, since EW is on a cd (though again, either can really work in practice).

raighn

Considering that my first tank I ever made on CO has quite a bit of team support of her own as well... I actually like the idea of offer a bit of team support...

As for CDs for MSA, yea, lunges will be my primary trigger for that plus Energy Wave... granted if we ever get a knock based EU I will trade MSA out for it in a heartbeat... I still don't like using MSA in my builds... it feels forced and unnatural for most of them...

flowcyto

Eh, hopefully w/ the power revamp we get more EUs, and maybe another universal one to compete w/ MSA.

squirrelloid

Something else you probably want given the concept is the Center of Gravity device, if you have one lying around...

raighn

squirrelloid said:

Something else you probably want given the concept is the Center of Gravity device, if you have one lying around...

I think I just might... I'm fairly certain that I've got one sitting in my hideout...

raighn

After playing her a bit more... i've once again revamped her build... moving more into a might focus for damage and religating force more towards defensive...

PowerHouse   (Link to this build)

Name: Collision Force

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Mountain
Level 6: Body and Mind
Level 9: Physical Conditioning
Level 12: Healthy Mind
Level 15: Covert Ops Training
Level 18: Paramilitary Training
Level 21: Discipline Training

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts
Level 1: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 8: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 11: Mighty Leap
Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 17: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 20: Energy Wave (Reverse Polarity, Challenging Strikes)
Level 23: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Gravity Driver (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Acrobatics
Level 35:

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (1/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Strength: Overpower (1/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Retribution (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

I didn't like how much time she spent charging attacks to maintain aggro with her previous build... and INT PSS just wasn't working out with PFF... so I dropped Haymaker, picked up defensive combo, and switched to STR/Con/Int...

flowcyto

The build won't be as high dps w/o Haymaker, but should be fine for threat w/ Defense Combo. Should perform fine for a PFF tank otherwise.

raighn

How well do you think the build would perform with Protector/Arbiter instead of Wardicator? And throwing in Thuderclap for a stun in place of Gravity Driver.

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
Strength: Brutality (1/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Strength: Overpower (1/3)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Debilitating Challenge (2/2)
Protector: Resolute (3/3)
Arbiter: Enforcer (1/3)
Arbiter: Ruthless (2/2)
Arbiter: Rend (2/2)
Arbiter: Concussion (3/3)
Arbiter: Enhanced Gear (2/3)
Mastery: Arbiter Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto

eh, Arbiter..
Still viable w/ those specs, though. Prob less personal dps and threat gen that way (assuming tank role) and less Defense, but ya will have more health, a bit more healing power, shorter AD timers (if ya want Defensive Expertise), and some team debuffs. Concussion can be kinda annoying to keep rolling on high ranked mobs, but its debuff is nice for tanking.