So Medical Nanites got a buff... and not AoAC? :(

superalfgorn

Ok I know I have an unholy fixation with Aura of Arcane Clarity.

BUT. Med Nanites got a nice (if small) defense buff added without any other nerf.

It is now time to buff AoAC too, I think. But how?

1. improve the charge reduction aspect
   
2. boost dodge (small increase like the +res from med nanites)
   
3. boost Perception
   

Some of these were taken form some suggestion from the past...

rtma wrote: »
Okay, New plan and it's relatively simple.

Increase Cost Discount/Cool-down Reduction Amount, (50%-100% more then it is now)
Increase the benefit of Reduction on all Charging Powers,
Give the User of Passive these innate traits-
50% Perception,
+50 Max End,
Small Energy Regeneration,
Done, What do you think now?

also


Bluhman

My two cents on the aura is to make it more tactical, like a good counter to Rampage bosses. Something like a team resist root and speed boost, making it easier for melee characters to close in on their targets, and for all player to avoid big annoying AoE effects. This would be nice because it represents clarity of... movement? Who knows. I've been dicking around trying to make a time mage with this passive and hasting your team would be perfect for that sort of thing.

I personally like the idea of giving it defense penetration for the team. Added clarity gives those under its effects the insight to spot weak points on their enemies. This can be useful in allowing it to counter annoying tank enemies (the duratokclad duo) and generally making fights go faster. Of course it's not going to be anywhere near as strong as Ebon Destruction on this front.

Also would like to sort of explore the charge reduction of the passive. This is something that has the potential to reverse DPS curves on stuff like full-charge blasts/punches, because when you're firing out full-charge attacks at a faster rate, you might have a shot at getting near what other characters can do with their goofy taps. In theory, it seems like it's intended to make the usage of rapidly-laid down sigils and circles more viable. Right now, though, the charge reduction isn't that noticeable. Part of me also wants to see if reducing maintain times could also be done (hitting max damage on Lightining Arc sooner, getting Storm Invocation to go off sooner, etc.)

raighn

Would certainly love to see the charge time reduction improved... it would make dropping sigils on Mystyx far more reliable... Faster activation = less chance for enemies to knock me around and greater contribution to team efforts...

pantagruel01

The charge time reduction is bugged (in support role, the self reduction scales on presence, the reduction for others scales on superstats). I believe the Rapid Response spec in the Commander tree works on sigils.

raighn

pantagruel01 said:

I believe the Rapid Response spec in the Commander tree works on sigils.

It does, but it is the ONLY spec in the Commander tree that works on them...

vonqball

These seem like good suggestions to me. I really don't seem many folks running AoAC these days.

spinnytop

I run with someone who uses AoAC. I kinda love it when they're in the party. Instead of tapping my attacks, I can fully charge them and do better dps than I would with taps. It's pretty neat.

roughbearmattach

Just how good can Aura of Arcane Clarity get with high Int, top-level gear?

Could one make a toon focused around quick charges, high cost powers, and fast cooldowns that performs well in Rampages?

vonqball

I was told the charge time reduction was pretty tiny... never played around with it much tho. Charge reduction just makes me happy for some reason.. I even like avenger mastery.

superalfgorn

If I am not mistaken there is a bug with AoAC too, the charge reduction (self and non self) scales off PRE. So the hero you suggest, roughbearmattach, is difficult to optimize for both charge reduction and cooldown reduction.
Another thing that needs fixing!
But what would be the best Blast attack to fully charge to combine Avenger+AoAC?
I am not a DPS expert, maybe Fireball for AoE but what for single targets?

roughbearmattach

Fireball is a blast? I thought that was Firestrike.

superalfgorn

roughbearmattach said:

Fireball is a blast? I thought that was Firestrike.

If I am not mistaken, both are.

Single target choice against bosses might be Force Blast for the increased dmg vs knock immune targets?


Something like the following? Playing on the INT+Avenger tree for AO recharge reduction to keep them on most of the time?

PowerHouse   (Link to this build)

Name: Clarity of Force

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Presence (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Hero
Level 6: Field Ops Training
Level 9: Survival Training
Level 12: Command Training
Level 15: Sniper Training
Level 18: Discipline Training
Level 21: Jack of All Trades

Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
Level 1: Force Blast (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 8: Concentration
Level 11: Aura of Arcane Clarity (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Thunderclap
Level 17: Protection Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Ego Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Immolation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 35: Nanobot Swarm
Level 38: Gravity Driver (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Jet Boots (Rank 2)
Level 35:

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Revitalize (2/3)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Guardian: Make It Count (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Anguish (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (1/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Preemptive Strike (3/3)
Mastery: Avenger Mastery (1/1)

vonqball

I don't think Fireball is a blast... although I'd be happy if I was wrong about that. Rocket Punch, Psionic Blast, and Ice blast are all pretty decent tho. Power Gauntlet might be fun for the interrupt.

squirrelloid

vonqball said:

I don't think Fireball is a blast... although I'd be happy if I was wrong about that. Rocket Punch, Psionic Blast, and Ice blast are all pretty decent tho. Power Gauntlet might be fun for the interrupt.

ice blast isn't a good stand-alone power and you wouldn't take blast specs for it. It's real use now is on-tap to debuff targets.

Psionic blast is great on tap, but that's because of the advantage. I don't think any AoAC reduction in charge time would turn that damage curve around. (It's only real problem is telepathic reverb doesn't seem to work past 50').

vonqball

Oh right.. haven't done much with ice blast since the rework... more of a setup power now, I seem to remember.

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

Just how good can Aura of Arcane Clarity get with high Int, top-level gear?

Could one make a toon focused around quick charges, high cost powers, and fast cooldowns that performs well in Rampages?

What did you have in mind for "performs well in Rampages"? That can mean a few things. I think the main thing that would keep an AoAC support build from being a meaningful contributor is that you need to get lucky and end up in a group of people who are actually going to utilize the bonuses you're giving them.

The one person I have seen using AoAC was a healer who was fond of being able to throw full charge heals across the room.

roughbearmattach

spinnytop said:

What did you have in mind for "performs well in Rampages"? That can mean a few things. I think the main thing that would keep an AoAC support build from being a meaningful contributor is that you need to get lucky and end up in a group of people who are actually going to utilize the bonuses you're giving them.

I mean either using AoAC for one's own powers, or using support powers that normally have long CDs. So, not dependent on whatever the team composition is.

Do AoAC effects work on devices, too?

spinnytop

roughbearmattach said:

spinnytop said:

What did you have in mind for "performs well in Rampages"? That can mean a few things. I think the main thing that would keep an AoAC support build from being a meaningful contributor is that you need to get lucky and end up in a group of people who are actually going to utilize the bonuses you're giving them.

I mean either using AoAC for one's own powers, or using support powers that normally have long CDs. So, not dependent on whatever the team composition is.

Do AoAC effects work on devices, too?

Wouldn't know, but I'm sure it's possible. I wonder what could be done with AoAC and telepathy... all those dots with cooldowns, Mind Break being a blast.... heck the mentalist tree has quite a few pretty neat cooldown abilities in it.

raighn

spinnytop said:

I wonder what could be done with AoAC and telepathy... all those dots with cooldowns, Mind Break being a blast.... heck the mentalist tree has quite a few pretty neat cooldown abilities in it.

Suprisingly... not very effective... I tried it once and found it was actually a bit counter productive since I could (at the time) reduce the CDs of all the new TP DoTs below their durations resulting in 100% uptime on the DoTs but with the side-effect of 0% uptime on the Buff/Debuffs that trigger upon the DoTs expiring...

squirrelloid

raighn said:

spinnytop said:

I wonder what could be done with AoAC and telepathy... all those dots with cooldowns, Mind Break being a blast.... heck the mentalist tree has quite a few pretty neat cooldown abilities in it.

Suprisingly... not very effective... I tried it once and found it was actually a bit counter productive since I could (at the time) reduce the CDs of all the new TP DoTs below their durations resulting in 100% uptime on the DoTs but with the side-effect of 0% uptime on the Buff/Debuffs that trigger upon the DoTs expiring...

You seem to be able to get all the buffs up now, even with shorter cds than durations (the DoT active buffs seem to stack even when the DoT doesn't, so they properly end now)... but it honestly isn't that impressive. It doesn't help that Mental Leech's buff is broken (only affects one player, not all teammates), and you're not really a dps build, so mental storm's bonus ego damage is just kind of meh, and its DoT is now bottom of the barrel. (Yes, the Mental Storm DoT nerf took it from comparable to all other framework DoTs to on par with telepathy DoTs... which are all well below every other framework. Yay? Remember, telepathy never gets nice things.)

Congress of Selves DoT damage penetration is also broken, so you can't even make a DoT damage build that way.

Best thing you can do with it is work it into a damage debuffing build running off sigils, shadow of doubt, ego placate, and ego sleep (fear + disorient + hold spec boosts), but even then sigils just die in many fights where the damage debuff would matter, so you can't get 100% uptime on those. But when you do you're literally cutting enemy damage output in half *before* it hits teammates resistance. Just don't try to heal at the same time - you'll be too busy.

On the plus side, you can double as a controller, because ego placate stacks manipulator without generating hold stacks.

Redid my telepath to do this. It's... kinda meh. May be the best thing telepathy can do right now, but that's not saying much. And it's telepathy, so expect nerfs to hit whatever it is that's actually working at all.

spinnytop

raighn said:

spinnytop said:

I wonder what could be done with AoAC and telepathy... all those dots with cooldowns, Mind Break being a blast.... heck the mentalist tree has quite a few pretty neat cooldown abilities in it.

Suprisingly... not very effective... I tried it once and found it was actually a bit counter productive since I could (at the time) reduce the CDs of all the new TP DoTs below their durations resulting in 100% uptime on the DoTs but with the side-effect of 0% uptime on the Buff/Debuffs that trigger upon the DoTs expiring...

How low did you manage to get the cooldowns? Cause from what I know of how those debuffs work, you would need all your Dots to have less than a 1.5 second cooldown to never see any of the debuffs, since the dots stack and you would need to be re-casting the dot 4 times every 6 seconds to prevent them from expiring - even then I'd be surprised to see that it actually replaces the first dot in the series. I'd love to see this in action, can you make a short video showcasing this?

roughbearmattach

I have DoTs telepathy toon, with Int primary and CD gear. I already can reapply all of the DoTs before they expire on there own, but I get the debuffs anyway after enough time has passed.

In a Rampage, the debuffs really add up--throw in Ego Placate w/adv, too, maybe some specs for zapping with your energy builder as well. Works quite nicely--would work even better with shadow bolt, apply fear and (w/adv) Despondency (dodge debuff).

Anyway, I was thinking of trying out AoAC not as a support toon, but as a toon that is good enough to run Hybrid. Thing is, are there enough powers affected by AoAC in a meaningful way to skip getting any bonuses to damage, defense, or stats?

I mean, comparing AoAC to AoPM--seems like AoPM is the winner, since getting to throw out that best power every 55 seconds instead of every 80 seconds just isn't good enough.

spinnytop

I think currently the bug with the charge time is a huge detriment. If I was going to make a telapathy toon with AoAC, it would be based around the premise of spamming those dots, and then also spamming half-charged Mind Breaks to rupture the dots. The fact that you have to stack Presence to get any meaningful amount of charge reduction is a huge kick to your damage output... stack that on top of the fact that you're losing a huge chunk just for being in Hybrid, and there you go.

I imagine that the Shadow changes also make that a more appealing tree to use AoAC with... but again, the bugged charge time reduction really kicks it in the pants.

There are actually quite a few cooldown powers in the game that deal more damage per cast time than some of the top dps nukes in the game. Making a build that essentially spams a rotation of these cooldown powers non-stop could be a thing to do, since this doesn't require charge time reduction. I'm not sure the actual dps you would see would be worth the effort to actually use the build.

I think currently, thanks to that bug, it'd be difficult to make anything but a gimmicky "hey look what I can do, but could do way better by switching to an offensive passive and dps role" build. There's also the fact that if you even do manage to achieve dps-level numbers... you're probably going to rip aggro thanks to being in hybrid, and then quickly drop dead.

As far as using this aura as a hybrid, I don't think it could ever really go past the "neat gimmick" phase.

However, anyone with this aura is welcome in any party I'm in cause my shadow tank is gonna love it.

riverocean

roughbearmattach said:

I mean, comparing AoAC to AoPM--seems like AoPM is the winner, since getting to throw out that best power every 55 seconds instead of every 80 seconds just isn't good enough.

That's the heart of the problem right there. AOPM can help with recharge and end cost, while boosting all your other stats as well. AoAC in it's current form just can't compete the AoPM's overall utility.

I'd love to see AoAC improved so that it can stand out more. Right now AoPM outshines it.

roughbearmattach

With the bug on charge times, I think the best I could do would be to make a Pre-Primary AoAC support toon, using Int and . . . Con (?) as secondaries.

I could heal, I guess, but then what? Throw out CC powers with CDs? Would teams find this useful, given the other bonuses?

EDIT: I just remade one of my healers to use AoAC. We'll see how he does in groups.

superalfgorn

That's the problem. AoAC should be the utility aura. When AoPM surpasses it in damage, defence and utility we have a problem.

But today I noticed something:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/vyewOxR.jpg?1[/img]

Has the perception/stealth sight boost been added or did I just ignored it before?

And most importantly: is this boost enough to pierce through the debuffs by Kigatilik?

ninjapiff

I've never used AoAC myself, but I plan for that to change thanks to a recent Cosmic fight where my AD's cooldown was reduced ~60% thanks to an AoAC-using teammate. I no longer had to strategically save my AD for when I was in trouble and could keep it up almost indefinitely, as the cooldown was not much longer than the duration. Not only that, but my bigger attacks like Force Cascade and Fire All Weapons were a lot easier and more efficient to use.

Aura of Arcane Clarity is one of those passives that may not be in the spotlight, but can make the world of difference to your teammates, especially in large-grouping scenarios.

On a side note, the charge reduction of Aura of Arcane Clarity can be beneficial to a Control build, as most control powers are chargeups. Being able to pop that Soul Mesmerism quickly, or reduce the cooldown of your favorite knock-to, can make the world of difference.

roughbearmattach

roughbearmattach said:

With the bug on charge times, I think the best I could do would be to make a Pre-Primary AoAC support toon, using Int and . . . Con (?) as secondaries.

I could heal, I guess, but then what? Throw out CC powers with CDs? Would teams find this useful, given the other bonuses?

EDIT: I just remade one of my healers to use AoAC. We'll see how he does in groups.

It went terribly for groups in F&I or TA. I reverted back to another support passive.

Maybe AoAC could help a lot vs. Cosmics? So much is sacrificed for so little gain.

raighn

roughbearmattach said:

roughbearmattach said:

With the bug on charge times, I think the best I could do would be to make a Pre-Primary AoAC support toon, using Int and . . . Con (?) as secondaries.

I could heal, I guess, but then what? Throw out CC powers with CDs? Would teams find this useful, given the other bonuses?

EDIT: I just remade one of my healers to use AoAC. We'll see how he does in groups.

It went terribly for groups in F&I or TA. I reverted back to another support passive.

Maybe AoAC could help a lot vs. Cosmics? So much is sacrificed for so little gain.

It really dependds on the build honestly... a support who uses a lot of maintains, few cooldowns, and few charges won't make much use out of AoAC. Many DPS builds benefit a lot from having an ally with AoAC, but very few DPS buillds benefit from using it themselves...

A support build using charged heals or charged CCs, multiple CDs, and high enegy cost powers would however benefit the most from actually using AoAC.

roughbearmattach

Benefit the most doesn't mean the build benefits enough, though.

markhawkman

This of course makes me wonder what you guys think of aura of Primal Majesty... O-o'

superalfgorn

markhawkman said:

This of course makes me wonder what you guys think of aura of Primal Majesty... O-o'

They are not even close in power level... AoPM>>AoAC.
AoPM stands on its own in Hybrid builds and is great in Support builds, for the group and for self.

Usually AoPM fixes your energy issues with the boost to REC END and INT plus grants you additional HP and Damage through EGO or STR and DEX. Not to mention it makes your passive and toggle stronger. So yeah...

championshewolf

superalfgorn wrote: »

They are not even close in power level... AoPM>>AoAC.
AoPM stands on its own in Hybrid builds and is great in Support builds, for the group and for self.

Usually AoPM fixes your energy issues with the boost to REC END and INT plus grants you additional HP and Damage through EGO or STR and DEX. Not to mention it makes your passive and toggle stronger. So yeah...

Except AoAC reduces energy costs and reduces cast time of powers which both means increase in DPS for damaging attacks. They are quite comparable, and AoPM late game really starts to lose its luster with decently geared players.​​

roughbearmattach

championshewolf said:

Except AoAC reduces energy costs and reduces cast time of powers which both means increase in DPS for damaging attacks. They are quite comparable, and AoPM late game really starts to lose its luster with decently geared players.​​

I found that the loss of health, defense, crit chance, and everything else AoPM has to offer was not made up for by the rather modest benefits of AoAC. A healer is usually not running out of energy, but might really a bit more health to use Iniquity, or to survive an attack. I tried making a build that would benefit from the CD reduction and charge up reduction, but I was so much squishier than when using AoPM that I spent too much time worrying about my own survival. Likewise, teams weren't remarking on getting any big benefits, either.


I rebuilt this same healer to use Medical Nanites, which then worked super well in TA. The combination of nanites and Sentinel aura meant that my team mates were healing about 800 health every 3 sec, plus whatever actual healing powers I used.

And that is the point of this thread: MN got such a useful upgrade, why not AoAC?

superalfgorn

Exactly. So now that it buffs perception is it good enough? Thoughts?

roughbearmattach

superalfgorn said:

Exactly. So now that it buffs perception is it good enough? Thoughts?

Not in my opinion. Stealth barely matters in PvE, if at all.

spinnytop

The fact that it seems like we're getting more stuff where fully charged powers also give the highest dps makes me think that AoAC is going to look more and more attractive. I know that my darkness character is never quite so happy as she is when there's a good strong AoAC on her.

superalfgorn said:

Exactly. So now that it buffs perception is it good enough? Thoughts?

Other than Kiga, is there anywhere in PvE where perception matters? We would need to see a lot more stealthy mobs who are actually dangerous before perception in any form matters in PvE.

pantagruel01

spinnytop said:

Other than Kiga, is there anywhere in PvE where perception matters?

Not really any more; npc snowstorm does blind you, as do smoke bombs from viper ninjas, but they're just too irrelevant to matter at current power levels.

markhawkman

Some of the ice demons also use perception debuffs. But any character with high int might be able to see through it anyways.

squirrelloid

Freon also uses npc ice storm, but meh. You just block, move out of it, and continue beating on him usually.

The Perception buff is almost entirely worthless.

Fix the support-role bonuses first, then i'd suggest increasing the charge time reduction to self significantly. (Topping out at more like 30-40% than its current ~15%)

avianos

Maybe if the AoAC gets Defence Penetration bonuses? its more usefull for PvE
Not to mention it give offense options to the user himself​​

roughbearmattach

I think all of the AoAC bonuses are simply too low, just a little more on each effect would really make this passive rock. This is especially true for leveling builds.

Perhaps Arcane Clarity needs to be the focus for an upcoming AT; the passive could get a revision, and then the archetype could get a set of powers that play well with a newer version of AoAC.

Now that cooldown reduction is not as good as before, and now that items have on equip cooldowns, etc., another look at making AoAC better is in order.

raighn

roughbearmattach said:

I think all of the AoAC bonuses are simply too low, just a little more on each effect would really make this passive rock. This is especially true for leveling builds.

I can agree to this... since curently asside from cooldowns aoac is out performed by other passives...

Energy management? Electric Form and AoPM are both better.
Cast speed? Night Warrior...
Perception? A single piece of perception gear out performs it.

notyuu

AoAC idea

Increase the scaling of the cost discount and cool down reduction.
Fix the scaling on cast speed so that it effects the users based off SS instead of just pre, then buff the scaling.
Add defense penetration to the user as well as all effected players, scaling off SS/Pre for the user/team respectively.

roughbearmattach

notyuu said:

Fix the scaling on cast speed so that it effects the users based off SS instead of just pre, then buff the scaling.

This would already be a great improvement, especially if contributions from SSS's made a significant difference.

raighn

notyuu said:

AoAC idea

Increase the scaling of the cost discount and cool down reduction.
Fix the scaling on cast speed so that it effects the users based off SS instead of just pre, then buff the scaling.
Add defense penetration to the user as well as all effected players, scaling off SS/Pre for the user/team respectively.

This please... especially the cast speed scaling fix... maybe then I wouldn't feel like I need Commander spec on Mystyx to get her sigils out in a reasonable amount of time...

superalfgorn

raighn said:

notyuu said:

AoAC idea

Increase the scaling of the cost discount and cool down reduction.
Fix the scaling on cast speed so that it effects the users based off SS instead of just pre, then buff the scaling.
Add defense penetration to the user as well as all effected players, scaling off SS/Pre for the user/team respectively.

This please... especially the cast speed scaling fix... maybe then I wouldn't feel like I need Commander spec on Mystyx to get her sigils out in a reasonable amount of time...

While the SS fixing needs to be put in place since it is a bug, boosting casting speed TOO much is tricky since it translates in a direct (multiplicative, I think as well) bonus to DPS, albeit for charged powers only. So I'm afraid sigils will always need commander spec to be fully effective

Nevertheless, boosting it's most valuable asset a boost to the charge time and an overall boost would be an easy step to make it most unique. And useful.

And most importantly a valid alternative to AoPM!!!!!

spinnytop

If they change the charge time scaling to work off all super stats then I'm probably going to switch to AoAC to dps on my darkness character since that'll probably net me better DPS than being in dps role with a dps passive.