Teleios Ascendant Rewards Discussion

ladygadfly

This is the discussion thread for the Teleios Ascendant Rewards. Please discuss the other changes on their appropriate threads:

Full Patchnotes
Teleios Ascendant Epic Lair Discussion
Teleios Ascendant Rewards Discussion
Collectors Lockbox Discussion
Aurum Heirloomn Gear Discussion
Device & Power Changes Discussion
Additional Changes Discussion

chaelk

what exactly are the rewards?

How many GCR tokens drop from it and when?
Has it been made so people can't just repeat that section to farm, if not at the end after handin?​​

boonguhpan

tldr; make GCR account bound somehow.

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe requiring both "Distinguished" gear and "Justice" gear to require both lair and rampage participation should be implemented. Taking a look at both sets, I can see (with unique build exceptions) that DPS would go mainly for Justice, and tanks would go mainly for Distinguished. There is little incentive for a DPS to do lairs, other than to help friends or farm for costume/cores and there is almost no reason for a tank to do rampages now.

I bet tanks are rejoicing at not having to farm a long RNG based rampage with 9 other people, but I think this will ultimately hurt more than help if we are splitting the playerbase to two forms of end-game. If we could convert rampage tokens for GCR and vice-versa, it might alleviate the future problems i'm predicting.

*edit
or make GCR/SCR account bound

chimerafreek

boonguhpan said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe requiring both "Distinguished" gear and "Justice" gear to require both lair and rampage participation should be implemented. Taking a look at both sets, I can see (with unique build exceptions) that DPS would go mainly for Justice, and tanks would go mainly for Distinguished. There is little incentive for a DPS to do lairs, other than to help friends or farm for costume/cores and there is almost no reason for a tank to do rampages now.

I bet tanks are rejoicing at not having to farm a long RNG based rampage with 9 other people, but I think this will ultimately hurt more than help if we are splitting the playerbase to two forms of end-game. If we could convert rampage tokens for GCR and vice-versa, it might alleviate the future problems i'm predicting.

I dunno about any of that, but us Ward/Vind tanks are gonna enjoy the crap out of a 147 base DEFENSE boost bumping UP 100% to Offense, instead of a 147 Offense bumping DOWN 20% to Defense.

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riverocean

gradii wrote: »

The answer is simple. Remove RNG from the rampage grind equation.

I agree. Since we are fiddling with the stores anyways. Why not just dump the whole "salvage" concept and let players earn Rampage credits instead. It's simple and less frustrating.​​

boonguhpan

chimerafreek said:

I dunno about any of that, but us Ward/Vind tanks are gonna enjoy the crap out of a 147 base DEFENSE boost bumping UP 100% to Offense, instead of a 147 Offense bumping DOWN 20% to Defense.

yes... that's what i said. tanks will love it, but after a while dps won't have a reason to join tanks in lairs, and tanks will never do rampage.

boonguhpan

gradii said:

The answer is simple. Remove RNG from the rampage grind equation.

if they do that, they'll have to significantly increase the required items i'd guess. i'd still be on board with it though, rng in rampage is the worst.

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pantagruel01

chimerafreek said:

I dunno about any of that, but us Ward/Vind tanks are gonna enjoy the crap out of a 147 base DEFENSE boost bumping UP 100% to Offense, instead of a 147 Offense bumping DOWN 20% to Defense.

Yeah, they should probably reduce the defense buff by a bunch (say, halve it); defense is a generally better stat than offense anyway.

boonguhpan said:

chimerafreek said:

I dunno about any of that, but us Ward/Vind tanks are gonna enjoy the crap out of a 147 base DEFENSE boost bumping UP 100% to Offense, instead of a 147 Offense bumping DOWN 20% to Defense.

yes... that's what i said. tanks will love it, but after a while dps won't have a reason to join tanks in lairs, and tanks will never do rampage.

Urr... my dps builds would do more damage with 147 base Defense than with 147 base Offense. For a wardicator build, 147 base offense turns into (up to, if I take modified gear 2)+220 offense, +44 defense, while +147 base defense turns into (up to, if I take fortified gear 3) +239 offense, +239 defense.

kaiserin

Last I checked it was +42 defense. Are people seeing 147?​​

boonguhpan

chimerafreek said:

Urr... my dps builds would do more damage with 147 base Defense than with 147 base Offense. For a wardicator build, 147 base offense turns into (up to, if I take modified gear 2)+220 offense, +44 defense, while +147 base defense turns into (up to, if I take fortified gear 3) +239 offense, +239 defense.

where are you getting these figures?

with a full set of Distinguished, you get +21 more defense (if you take justice tights of fitness on a dps).

the bonus of distinguished is 42 def, justice tights of fitness is 42 defense, so you'd get +21 more defense from a distinguished piece of freedom or healing.

even if you get the distinguished gloves of offense, you will lose out on crit and severity plus the 150ish offensive bonus from 3 peices of justice.

aiqa

To see through a r3 teleport you need 150 INT and 2 r9 stealth sight mods, that seems a bit to much of an investment. I am not sure if INT does some base perception bonus that the stealth sight gear improves on, or that there are some other interactions. But I think with 2 r9 mods you should be able to see through stealth with any SS.

pantagruel01

kaizerin said:

Last I checked it was +42 defense. Are people seeing 147?​​

No, I made the foolish assumption that the previous poster knew what he was talking about. At +42 defense/+10 all non-super-stats, it's strictly worse than Justice gear (at least on set bonuses. The actual item bonuses are a tough call, I do like the distinguished armor of freedom).

almafeta

We will be able to gain the current Teleios perks (Vanquished Ultimate Mind, Vanquished Buster, Imitation of Life) after this update?

xrazamax

*This is now a thread calling for the removal of RNG in rampages*

championshewolf

I am not feeling the +10 to non-prime stats, because well, I am a tank. Works well for the support, maybe, but for me not so much.​​

agentnx5

boonguhpan said:

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I believe requiring both "Distinguished" gear and "Justice" gear to require both lair and rampage participation should be implemented. Taking a look at both sets, I can see (with unique build exceptions) that DPS would go mainly for Justice, and tanks would go mainly for Distinguished. There is little incentive for a DPS to do lairs, other than to help friends or farm for costume/cores and there is almost no reason for a tank to do rampages now.

I bet tanks are rejoicing at not having to farm a long RNG based rampage with 9 other people, but I think this will ultimately hurt more than help if we are splitting the playerbase to two forms of end-game. If we could convert rampage tokens for GCR and vice-versa, it might alleviate the future problems i'm predicting.

*edit
or make GCR/SCR account bound

It's not that hard to find people who typically actually WANT to do Fire & Ice and Gravitar, but almost nobody wants to do Sky Command and Lemurian Rampage because of the time it takes compared to the chance at the reward.

Seriously Cryptic, the drop rates for those Rampage tokens need some buffing (or at least have it calculated that if you've made a number of attempts you at least guaranteed to get one token, rather than RNG each time). The rampages are not created equal for time investment needed and replayability fun.

And yes to having Silver and Gold recog being account bound.

Gradii said:

OK some feedback on the new Vendor.. The gear with its bonuses to non superstats looks interesting.. but since we're speaking NON super stats here it could stand to be about a 20 point bonus, not just 10.

That would make non-AoPM passives have more appeal, and that's a good thing. Good suggestion Gradii/DaZee!

agentnx5

Reward costs for many vendors in this game in general are crazy. Onslaught gear for 5000 Villian Token each is still ridiculous, and the powers for 10000 VT is even more extreme. The work on Onslaught isn't finished yet and now we're adding new rewards?

Speaking of lairs & rewards. Rewards for all lairs need a buff... badly...

And honestly many lairs needs to have harder hitting bosses, something scary.

i.e.: Therakiel is kind of a joke compared to what he once was. It used to be his spinning sword attack was something people would shout to teammates in panic: "BLOCK NOW OR YOU'RE DEAD!" I miss that...

And then when you succeed you get a reward that is actually worth your time!

The goal should be about fun, not just RNG luck via tons of grinding for it.

toooldforthis

championshewolf said:

Works well for the support, maybe

It doesn't work well for support, either.

I'll have some comments and suggestions after I check a few more numbers.

aiqa

championshewolf said:

I am not feeling the +10 to non-prime stats, because well, I am a tank. Works well for the support, maybe, but for me not so much.​​

I agree that the +10 to non SS is not all that great (for any build, support can't do much with non-SS either). Even with +20 to all non SS I don't think I'd ever use it on any of my builds. Maybe the stats set bonus can be changed to an unique effect like: take lower damage from any target you did damage to in the last 5 seconds.

avianos

agentnx5 wrote: »

And then when you succeed you get a reward that is actually worth your time!

The goal should be about fun, not just RNG luck via tons of grinding for it.

Basically my experience with Rampages and Trying to get Justice gear

Farming Sky Command and Lemuria Invansion again and again and again IS NOT FUN!
​​

chaelk

Farming ANY of them is not fun and beating your head against a wall​​

aiqa

Please add higher ranked mods to the store. If you want to go from r1 to r9 by fusing, you'll need to fuse 5^8=390625 r1 mods.
And you would need to fuse 5^7+5^6+5^5+5^4+5^3+5^2+5+1=97656 times, which with about 3 seconds per go would take 97656x3=292968 seconds = 3 days 7 hours 22 minutes 8 seconds

xrazamax

aiqa said:

Please add higher ranked mods to the store. If you want to go from r1 to r9 by fusing, you'll need to fuse 5^8=390625 r1 mods.
And you would need to fuse 5^7+5^6+5^5+5^4+5^3+5^2+5+1=97656 times, which with about 3 seconds per go would take 97656x3=292968 seconds = 3 days 7 hours 22 minutes 8 seconds

Ugh, your math is right and I wish it wasn't XD

Even if the mods started at rank 4, you'd need 3,125 for rank 9. Also, this is highly unrealistic as you are going to lose mods in the fusion process. This is 1 GCR and 1 SCR per mod too.

royalflvsh

championshewolf said:

I am not feeling the +10 to non-prime stats, because well, I am a tank. Works well for the support, maybe, but for me not so much.​​

Amen, sister! I'd much rather see this set provide a bonus of +20 to Super Stats instead. It would be inferior to Justice Gear, and I'd still prefer it.

Or even better - make it on par with Justice Gear.

And if you really want happy players? Then please remove the RNG from rampage token distribution equation altogether. You know who likes the RNG? The PWI executive who thought of it. And maybe his mom! Please instead let us instead grind our lives away seeing real progress, a quantifiable return on our investment and determination.

jonsills

xrazamax said:

*This is now a thread calling for the removal of RNG in rampages*

I could get behind that. Bad enough we seem to be moving toward the idea of Gear Score and gear checks before a run - making the "required" gear available only after a large number of completely random drops is just ridiculous.

riverocean

agentnx5 wrote: »

It's not that hard to find people who typically actually WANT to do Fire & Ice and Gravitar, but almost nobody wants to do Sky Command and Lemurian Rampage because of the time it takes compared to the chance at the reward.

Seriously Cryptic, the drop rates for those Rampage tokens need some buffing (or at least have it calculated that if you've made a number of attempts you at least guaranteed to get one token, rather than RNG each time). The rampages are not created equal for time investment needed and replayability fun.

I agree 100%. It's really time the Rampage system gets an overhaul. The RNG drop rate sucks and it adds an element of frustration to grinding for Justice gear that's unfun. Like most people I ground through when the system first launched - and haven't bothered with it again since. There's grind and then there's monotony.​​

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championshewolf

gradii wrote: »

*This is now a thread calling for the removal of RNG in rampages*
I could get behind that. Bad enough we seem to be moving toward the idea of Gear Score and gear checks before a run - making the "required" gear available only after a large number of completely random drops is just ridiculous.

Theres no gear checks yet- fortunately. But if they keep designing fights which rely on massive base damage rather than debuffs, it's going to entirely exclude some playstyles and builds from future content.

They do both in this fight, and if you don't build fights based on the power of your players well, you get WoW syndrome where people just quit because the games too easy. But we already been there done that.​​

xcelsior41

championshewolf said:

gradii wrote: »

*This is now a thread calling for the removal of RNG in rampages*

I could get behind that. Bad enough we seem to be moving toward the idea of Gear Score and gear checks before a run - making the "required" gear available only after a large number of completely random drops is just ridiculous.



Theres no gear checks yet- fortunately. But if they keep designing fights which rely on massive base damage rather than debuffs, it's going to entirely exclude some playstyles and builds from future content.

They do both in this fight, and if you don't build fights based on the power of your players well, you get WoW syndrome where people just quit because the games too easy. But we already been there done that.​​

But then, exclusion comes into affect, and WoW is extremly unforgiving for a new player. I'd hate to see champs become that . I also agree with Gradii, randomization to absurd levels does not equal fun, at all. Ever.

championshewolf

xcelsior41 wrote: »

But then, exclusion comes into affect, and WoW is extremly unforgiving for a new player. I'd hate to see champs become that . I also agree with Gradii, randomization to absurd levels does not equal fun, at all. Ever.

WoW is actually the opposite of unforgiving. They've got so much stuff designed to make it quick and easy for new players. There is a reason WoW's turn around is now two weeks, because that's how long it takes for new players to get to max level and the best raid gear for that particular update.​​

xcelsior41

championshewolf said:

xcelsior41 wrote: »

But then, exclusion comes into affect, and WoW is extremly unforgiving for a new player. I'd hate to see champs become that . I also agree with Gradii, randomization to absurd levels does not equal fun, at all. Ever.

WoW is actually the opposite of unforgiving. They've got so much stuff designed to make it quick and easy for new players. There is a reason WoW's turn around is now two weeks, because that's how long it takes for new players to get to max level and the best raid gear for that particular update.​​

During my stent in WoW, it certainly didn't feel that way(from the community standpoint). Gamewise, it felt very 'fractured' in that their were soooo many pieces that went into making actually decent(not top raid gear, but gear that was a little bit below that) gear. And it felt that if I were to join a dungeon PUG, I would have someone try to jump down my throat for not knowing the exact rotations/class inside and out(it has happened before to me, on my druid). Though I don't see this lair doing that right now, I feel an elitist attitude could develope over this lair, like some players on raids in WoW(that doesn't mean this difficulty should be made trivial, just, worried for the casuals of the playerbase is all.)

championshewolf

xcelsior41 wrote: »

WoW is actually the opposite of unforgiving. They've got so much stuff designed to make it quick and easy for new players. There is a reason WoW's turn around is now two weeks, because that's how long it takes for new players to get to max level and the best raid gear for that particular update.

During my stent in WoW, it certainly didn't feel that way(from the community standpoint). Gamewise, it felt very 'fractured' in that their were soooo many pieces that went into making actually decent(not top raid gear, but gear that was a little bit below that) gear. And it felt that if I were to join a dungeon PUG, I would have someone try to jump down my throat for not knowing the exact rotations/class inside and out(it has happened before to me, on my druid). Though I don't see this lair doing that right now, I feel an elitist attitude could develope over this lair, like some players on raids in WoW(that doesn't mean this difficulty should be made trivial, just, worried for the casuals of the playerbase is all.)

Elitism is not bad for a game, it is actually quite healthy. CoH, contrary to popular opinion, had it in spades. It's what drove people to do better and try to best scores. What is not healthy is extremist attitudes, that think only they are the best, and those that think it's unfair that they might have to change builds or even ideas because they want to be perfect at everything. Being a team player is what this is about, but people that want to have a build for everything, IE have CC don't bother helping where help is needed or being a team player, those are the unhealthy people in this game, that want to be everything with no weaknesses.​​

xcelsior41

championshewolf said:

xcelsior41 wrote: »

WoW is actually the opposite of unforgiving. They've got so much stuff designed to make it quick and easy for new players. There is a reason WoW's turn around is now two weeks, because that's how long it takes for new players to get to max level and the best raid gear for that particular update.



During my stent in WoW, it certainly didn't feel that way(from the community standpoint). Gamewise, it felt very 'fractured' in that their were soooo many pieces that went into making actually decent(not top raid gear, but gear that was a little bit below that) gear. And it felt that if I were to join a dungeon PUG, I would have someone try to jump down my throat for not knowing the exact rotations/class inside and out(it has happened before to me, on my druid). Though I don't see this lair doing that right now, I feel an elitist attitude could develope over this lair, like some players on raids in WoW(that doesn't mean this difficulty should be made trivial, just, worried for the casuals of the playerbase is all.)

Elitism is not bad for a game, it is actually quite healthy. CoH, contrary to popular opinion, had it in spades. It's what drove people to do better and try to best scores. What is not healthy is extremist attitudes, that think only they are the best, and those that think it's unfair that they might have to change builds or even ideas because they want to be perfect at everything. Being a team player is what this is about, but people that want to have a build for everything, IE have CC don't bother helping where help is needed or being a team player, those are the unhealthy people in this game, that want to be everything with no weaknesses.​​

I can say as a Vet from '06 to shutdown(and post-revival That's right, imma keep on waitin' (not to say I won't still play CO while I wait )) That's not true(err, well having it in spades, that is.), as the game has, imo, a good balance of challenge and casual that both pushes the playerbase forward, while giving the casual player a pat on the back and helping them along to join the others The rest of your post: Yes, I agree about those players who would whine(or worse, Ask for nerfs) because they would have to adjust their tactics to meet the demands of a new challenge(within reason, mind you. Some of those whines were actually validated). If CO were to embrace an elitist attitude, imo, they would non-intentionally draw those who are of the mindset you & me both agree is annoying and cancerous for the playerbase.
Tl:DR; I am all for progression, just..be careful to not exclude the little guy, so to speak

championshewolf

xcelsior41 wrote: »

I can say as a Vet from '06 to shutdown(and post-revival That's right, imma keep on waitin' (not to say I won't still play CO while I wait )) That's not true(err, well having it in spades, that is.), as the game has, imo, a good balance of challenge and casual that both pushes the playerbase forward, while giving the casual player a pat on the back and helping them along to join the others The rest of your post: Yes, I agree about those players who would whine(or worse, Ask for nerfs) because they would have to adjust their tactics to meet the demands of a new challenge(within reason, mind you. Some of those whines were actually validated). If CO were to embrace an elitist attitude, imo, they would non-intentionally draw those who are of the mindset you & me both agree is annoying and cancerous for the playerbase.
Tl:DR; I am all for progression, just..be careful to not exclude the little guy, so to speak

It did have it in spades though. Hell that was the point of badges in particular and the whole master system when they implemented for SF runs (especially those who had the LRSF Master badge). And I will disagree CoH didn't have a fair balance it was very balanced towards casual play. Very little actually challenged decent builds, and it was very much a grinders paradise, no questions about that. Even the Incarnate stuff being much harder challenge wise, did little to make it more challenging for people. CoH had the team stuff down however, something CO lacks right now, but with the stuff aimed at providing new methods for that, and looking at putting out much more diverse build set ups that could change. I finally feel like a tank again instead of just another DPS, for starters.​​

sterga

Elitism is about segregation of people instead of inclusion. Which is not good for a community.

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xcelsior41

championshewolf said:

xcelsior41 wrote: »

I can say as a Vet from '06 to shutdown(and post-revival That's right, imma keep on waitin' (not to say I won't still play CO while I wait )) That's not true(err, well having it in spades, that is.), as the game has, imo, a good balance of challenge and casual that both pushes the playerbase forward, while giving the casual player a pat on the back and helping them along to join the others The rest of your post: Yes, I agree about those players who would whine(or worse, Ask for nerfs) because they would have to adjust their tactics to meet the demands of a new challenge(within reason, mind you. Some of those whines were actually validated). If CO were to embrace an elitist attitude, imo, they would non-intentionally draw those who are of the mindset you & me both agree is annoying and cancerous for the playerbase.

Tl:DR; I am all for progression, just..be careful to not exclude the little guy, so to speak

It did have it in spades though. Hell that was the point of badges in particular and the whole master system when they implemented for SF runs (especially those who had the LRSF Master badge). And I will disagree CoH didn't have a fair balance it was very balanced towards casual play. Very little actually challenged decent builds, and it was very much a grinders paradise, no questions about that. Even the Incarnate stuff being much harder challenge wise, did little to make it more challenging for people. CoH had the team stuff down however, something CO lacks right now, but with the stuff aimed at providing new methods for that, and looking at putting out much more diverse build set ups that could change. I finally feel like a tank again instead of just another DPS, for starters.​​


I dunno, Imma disagree on the grinding, as it seemed like I'm able to get whatever, whenever, and through a myraid of ways. But if you felt that then all I can say is: sorry you felt that way. I'm glad you got your tank feel here as well . Bit of a side-note, How will SCR be reworked as to feel less like a grind(as is, on live seems..tedious/grindy but very much manageable.) These changes will add a bit of a setback to those who are abit more time restricted and either don't have the G's to dump or don't wanna dump their character's career savings :P on gear that is 3rd tier.

championshewolf

xcelsior41 wrote: »

I dunno, Imma disagree on the grinding, as it seemed like I'm able to get whatever, whenever, and through a myraid of ways. But if you felt that then all I can say is: sorry you felt that way. I'm glad you got your tank feel here as well

I never said anything about the grinding in CoH. In fact it was too easy to get things. I think I had a maximized Incarnate power after only a couple of raids, and that was just bad. It should take some time to get things, not happen instantly otherwise that just hurts replayability.

gradii wrote: »

Actually the answer is to nerf CON and raise the base HP. theres a huge gap in the survivability of players- too huge. Theres a thread on this in suggestions box which I hope the devs seriously implement.

Actually the answer is to work like a team and not have everyone dog pile. We had a low health person, they survived fine once people stopped tunnel visioning.​​

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xcelsior41

championshewolf said:

xcelsior41 wrote: »

I dunno, Imma disagree on the grinding, as it seemed like I'm able to get whatever, whenever, and through a myraid of ways. But if you felt that then all I can say is: sorry you felt that way. I'm glad you got your tank feel here as well

I never said anything about the grinding in CoH. In fact it was too easy to get things. I think I had a maximized Incarnate power after only a couple of raids, and that was just bad. It should take some time to get things, not happen instantly otherwise that just hurts replayability.

gradii wrote: »

Actually the answer is to nerf CON and raise the base HP. theres a huge gap in the survivability of players- too huge. Theres a thread on this in suggestions box which I hope the devs seriously implement.

Actually the answer is to work like a team and not have everyone dog pile. We had a low health person, they survived fine once people stopped tunnel visioning.​​

Personally, I feel the time of the trials can hurt their replayability, not so much that those who have more RL obligations than time to sit on a game. And as such should be getting a 'fair day's wage', so to speak.

Nerf Con? Mmm..nah, not gonna go over well..first: INT/DEX with crits, then DEX's survivable aspect. Keep nerfing what keeps your toon standing and this'll become CO:Generic paper toon #1,000

championshewolf

gradii wrote: »

Yeah I knew you'd never see the huge balance issue this game is facing with the HP gap... lemme see you do stack quite a lot of CON don't you?

Probably because, given how I've seen you play, you have no coordination or ability to work as a team member. Furthermore, there are other ways to get more health that doesn't require CON, but since you think absolutely 0 outside of the box Gradii, we both know how far that goes with you.​​

xrazamax

It is a legitimate concern that content be accessible to players who do not min/max their builds. However, that does not mean a game is not better for including content which has the aim to challenge players and reward them for preparing and optimizing their team and tactics. Both groups need catering too, from the hardcore to the casual and everyone in between, but sometimes one side of the spectrum is just not going to like new content when it caters more to the other side.

It is obvious that the content is geared towards the hardcore, but that is fine. They have been ignored for a while. Teleios Ascension is not "bad" because it is hard nor does it need to be made "easier" (and yes it will get some balancing - that's what these test are for!). There will be more content in the future, but games usually have challenging content like this such as survival modes/caves or towers with progressively harder enemies/etc. So just as there is a legitimate concern for content to be accessible to players who are not min/maxing or using optimized gear, there is a legit concern that players be rewarded for doing so and who like knowing the odds of winning a fight are lower than losing it and actually being successful is an accomplishment worth being proud about.

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xcelsior41

xrazamax said:

It is a legitimate concern that content be accessible to players who do not min/max their builds. However, that does not mean a game is not better for including content which has the aim to challenge players and reward them for preparing and optimizing their team and tactics. Both groups need catering too, from the hardcore to the casual and everyone in between, but sometimes one side of the spectrum is just not going to like new content when it caters more to the other side.

It is obvious that the content is geared towards the hardcore, but that is fine. They have been ignored for a while. Teleios Ascension is not "bad" because it is hard nor does it need to be made "easier" (and yes it will get some balancing - that's what these test are for!). There will be more content in the future, but games usually have challenging content like this such as survival modes/caves or towers with progressively harder enemies/etc. So just as there is a legitimate concern for content to be accessible to players who are not min/maxing or using optimized gear, there is a legit concern that players be rewarded for doing so and who like knowing the odds of winning a fight are lower than losing it and actually being successful is an accomplishment worth being proud about.

Oh I agree, having a little something something for all is pretty much what I advocate, content wise. I see this lair as a step in the right direction of that(challenge for the hardcore players), I just don't want that **** who says in team chat, "are u healorz, can't join unless u conforms to the trinityzz" :P

xrazamax

xcelsior41 said:

Oh I agree, having a little something something for all is pretty much what I advocate, content wise. I see this lair as a step in the right direction of that(challenge for the hardcore players), I just don't want that **** who says in team chat, "are u healorz, can't join unless u conforms to the trinityzz" :P

Yeah those people are the worse. However, that is going to come hand in hand when you have content where you have to discuss with your friends, "Does anyone need health devices? I have minor healing abilities but we are going to have to plan this out . . ."

Trying to be "elite" is okay, but being an elitist is awful.

championshewolf

gradii wrote: »

Yes I know you hate me yet don't know the first thing about me, and have rarely seen me play Silverspar. you're a disgusting little troll who just likes to feed the flames. you want flames? FINE. flames you'll have if you insist.

I actually seen you play quite a bit, even teamed with you multiple times, and considering all you did was insult me before ignoring me in game and come up to me and try to throw insults, while you have me on ignore when you continuously get proven wrong tells me a lot about you. Furthermore, considering you think Gravitar Rampage is the best example of "team" game play, tells me a lot about you.

You are always getting your hand caught in the cookie jar on that one. Sorry you hate when people don't bow down and accept you as the pinnacle of perfection of gaming you always think you are.​​

championshewolf

xcelsior41 wrote: »

Oh I agree, having a little something something for all is pretty much what I advocate, content wise. I see this lair as a step in the right direction of that(challenge for the hardcore players), I just don't want that **** who says in team chat, "are u healorz, can't join unless u conforms to the trinityzz" :P

Bashing the trinity is its own form of negative elitism and needs to go. Trinity game play, no matter what some people will claim, actually invokes people playing to team dynamics and grouping together. And there are a lot of things in this update that actually encourages more diversity instead of people trying to build jack of all trade builds.​​