What if the level 6 hero has a passive that flags them just for stepping out of the power house?
It's grossly unlikely to do so (there has to be a target that is currently Battling Supervillains within range to be healed), even if it does, probably won't result in any consequences (trying to hit people standing at the powerhouse door is a good way to get yourself killed by turrets), and if they do get killed, they will respawn well outside of the range of the OV. If your goal is to farm hapless newbies, fighting next to Defender is really not the place to do it.
But the current intended setup has lead to all the trolling during the winter event/halloween event.. I'm thinking chaelk is on to something here with his suggestion
Which is why I said they need to take a look at it, make adjustments. Your suggestion is "nope, it won't work the way you want it, just dump it".
?..I don't follow your reasoning for this deduction. Never said to dump it, just..make it abit less easy to troll with, is all.
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
While is the default new person example always assume everyone who plays a game for the first time has never played any other videogames, does not understand what levels mean, and is a whiney rage quitter with absolutely no patience to figure things out?
Have you been in a Grab Alert lately? Hell, we've got people with 40s who don't seem to understand what levels are and are whiny rage-quitters with absolutely no patience.
And the tendency of some PvPers to turn newb areas into gankfests because they think it's "fun" was a large part of what drove me away from WoW - especially that plague event where the point was supposed to be working together to stop the plague, not spread it. If we're worried about the population of this game, maybe emulating one that's shedding players as fast as that one is might not be the best idea...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
And a player new to the game, new to travel powers, hasn't seen any of the maps yet is going to know all this how? After fighting Qulaar and feeling a bit like a hero they're going to walk into OV hell and get curb stomped repeatedly. Then they're going to quit the game and uninstall it.
If a player new to travel powers don't know how to run or move around then there's a major problem, Because then that will be the new issue where Vetern Players will yell "Learn to move!" instead of "Learn to Block". If we are talking about players who are dumb as a rock then I wonder how they get around in life outside the game.
"I'll never look back I've got no regrets Cause time doesn't wait for me I choose to go my own way."
While is the default new person example always assume everyone who plays a game for the first time has never played any other videogames, does not understand what levels mean, and is a whiney rage quitter with absolutely no patience to figure things out?
Have you in a Grab Alert lately? Hell, we've got people with 40s who don't seem to understand what levels are and are whiny rage-quitters with absolutely no patience.
And the tendency of some PvPers to turn newb areas into gankfests because they think it's "fun" was a large part of what drove me away from WoW - especially that plague event where the point was supposed to be working together to stop the plague, not spread it. If we're worried about the population of this game, maybe emulating one that's shedding players as fast as that one is might not be the best idea...
=========================================================================== Stupid post the thing did not quote right, I put a line below it separating my post. (Urgh forget it I can't fix Jonsills post to re-quote it, It broke)
Furries Post --> I think I seen a few of those before happened a couple of times. People giving up to easily, come to think of it when I was in support role (Freeform, As Arcane Wolf. Generic Name I know.) and this guy who uses force powers everyone left but only me and this guy stuck together It was hard because we had no tank and no fully dedicated healer at all, I could heal but not as great as a full healer.
Normally the guy who had the force powers was more durable than I am, I was only semi durable (Ebon Void) I picked out the toughest foe in the group and held my ground awhile he took out the weaker foes in that group.
Basically took brains than brawn to beat that with 2 people but was not impossible.
"I'll never look back I've got no regrets Cause time doesn't wait for me I choose to go my own way."
What if the level 6 hero has a passive that flags them just for stepping out of the power house?
Currently no ATs get their passive at level 6(its always lvl 8) This would have to be a freeform character...so probably a person who is more invested into the game than your average f2p'er, I don't quite see this type of player to filp their hamburgers and rage quit because there is a Grond stomping around the enterance to the powerhouse... I mean it's possible I guess but unlikely, and cryptic gets to keep their money in any case.
And a player new to the game, new to travel powers, hasn't seen any of the maps yet is going to know all this how? After fighting Qulaar and feeling a bit like a hero they're going to walk into OV hell and get curb stomped repeatedly. Then they're going to quit the game and uninstall it.
If a player new to travel powers don't know how to run or move around then there's a major problem, Because then that will be the new issue where Vetern Players will yell "Learn to move!" instead of "Learn to Block". If we are talking about players who are dumb as a rock then I wonder how they get around in life outside the game.
The truth is, there isn't a 'problem' here at all, at least as far as OVs near Defender. OVs who are inclined to farm newbies don't go to Defender, they go to Kodiak, because Defender is a lousy place for farming newbies.
And a player new to the game, new to travel powers, hasn't seen any of the maps yet is going to know all this how? After fighting Qulaar and feeling a bit like a hero they're going to walk into OV hell and get curb stomped repeatedly. Then they're going to quit the game and uninstall it.
You cant argue with this point. Well you can and people have but thats the internets for ya! You really shouldn't as this point is the correct point.
Why is it correct cause it just is so no point arguing the point though. But this being the internets someone probably will.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I'm a bit curious about why some people are so desperate to see noob-griefing made as easy as possible. That's the only possible reason I can see for removing the RenCen turrets.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
?..I don't follow your reasoning for this deduction. Never said to dump it, just..make it abit less easy to troll with, is all.
You wish to completely change the mechanism to "player has to actively toggle it on" (EDIT: Well, you didn't propose it, just agreed with it anyway). That's completely throwing out the mechanism they have, one they obviously put in on purpose. It's basically hand-waving it and saying "just use the standard method open world PvP usually uses", which is quite obviously not how they wanted it, or they would have in the first place.
?..I don't follow your reasoning for this deduction. Never said to dump it, just..make it abit less easy to troll with, is all.
You wish to completely change the mechanism to "player has to actively toggle it on" (EDIT: Well, you didn't propose it, just agreed with it anyway). That's completely throwing out the mechanism they have, one they obviously put in on purpose. It's basically hand-waving it and saying "just use the standard method open world PvP usually uses", which is quite obviously not how they wanted it, or they would have in the first place.
I'd just want it to help lower the potential for griefing(think Takofanes and Clarence) with a toggle. What they have now is flawed, and unless they can polish it up to be both a different and fun approach for all, then I suppose going a little towards standard might be a safe way to go..
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
I'm a bit curious about why some people are so desperate to see noob-griefing made as easy as possible. That's the only possible reason I can see for removing the RenCen turrets.
So they can get red tokens, get elite loot and transcend to pr0hness.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I'm a bit curious about why some people are so desperate to see noob-griefing made as easy as possible. That's the only possible reason I can see for removing the RenCen turrets.
I say keep the the turrets where they are. But the turret near Kodiak needs to be moved next to him though its to far away in the corner to reach an OV unless they are dead close to it.
"I'll never look back I've got no regrets Cause time doesn't wait for me I choose to go my own way."
I'd just want it to help lower the potential for griefing(think Takofanes and Clarence) with a toggle. What they have now is flawed, and unless they can polish it up to be both a different and fun approach for all, then I suppose going a little towards standard might be a safe way to go..
Right, so you want to dump the way they want it in favor of something else. That's what I said.
And I disagree. Your "griefing" problems should be solvable by other means than "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Once they "fixed" Clarence, the griefing stopped almost completely.
The whole almost random placement of onslaught defenders with their fortified positions has always seemed strange and non-comic booky to me. Often battles between comic book heroes and villains take place indoors.
If it were up to me I would scarp those outdoor onslaught defenders and create zones that simply disable OV devices within a radius around spawn points and Ren Cen (could these be depicted unobtrusively on the minimap?). I would have the fights take place inside the sorts of buildings villains tend to break into, such as banks, labs, warehouses and so on. Maybe change up what the villains need to destroy to match the type of building they are in (it would be neat if there were a way to include a "protect the civilian" aspect). These would be instances which once entered by an OV would have a red circle placed around them on the zone minimap and announcements sent out in zone chat every minute or two announcing where the OV was so that heroes can find them (seems non-comic booky for villains to constantly show up at Defender in the area with the highest concentration of heroes; it's almost like they want to be captured). The fights would then take place inside the buildings and only between those interested in participating in such a battle. Villains would not be taken down unintentionally by turrets and new players and those simply not wanting to participate would be safe. This sort of approach would obviate the need for turrets altogether.
Note that this would not interfere with villains who want to challenge heroes outside such buildings. E.g. I was in a battle on top of Mercy 2 that was quite enjoyable. Close to a respawn point, but not in such a way that the OV could be unwillingly blasted.
As I suggested already once before, the Turret's AI is what's to blame. It would be far better if Defender himself would just rapidly destroy any OV that came in the area. I mean, it IS supposed to be the leader of the Champions no?
Think about it. It would make more sense from an immersion standpoint AND work around the issues that turret AI's have. There's no where in this game that turrets work quite right, and in Zones it's even worse than instanced-combat (i.e.: Aftershock, Resistance, Serpent Lantern, Whiteout). The only thing that truly works is AI that can walk around and correctly responds to the aggression stealth mechanic.
It's not as hard of a fix to do it that way instead. (compared to working on the aggro mechanics of the turrets).
No one wants to leave RenCen to fight OVs? Then maybe OVs aren't the sort of content we need. Just sayin'.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
It is kinda strange how OV fights have largely migrated from Kodiak area to Defender. Just plain ol'convenience.
It is similar to how many players moved from traveling about doing missions to simply standing in RenCen waiting for Alerts, or maybe near Mercy for a Rampage PQ.
The hate for OV's isn't helping. You know you're not flagged unless you attack first right? sheesh the complaining.
You know there are some passives that will automatically flag you as attacking, right? (Not sure about pets, but I know that there are folks who like to hang out near Defender with their pets out so they can show them off...)
No hate for OVs - just dislike for OV players who deliberately look for cheap kills by finding lower-level toons and getting purposely caught in their AoEs and passives.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I'd travel anywhere in MC to fight OVs if there were an easy way to locate them. Just saying they are in some general neighborhood isn't very helpful, considering that they are usually on the move. How hard would it be to put them on the minimap?
It is kinda strange how OV fights have largely migrated from Kodiak area to Defender.
OV fights have always migrated towards where there are reasonably likely to be people to fight. I switched over to Defender because I have no real interest in farming level 6s, and you can generally find multiple 40s just hanging out at Defender.
Thing is though theres also a lot of level 6's with no real idea whats going on they see what they think at first is an NPC bad guy in an area that they start in they will attack it. Its a video game so video game logic applies here : see a bad guy kill the bad guy. The arguments here that if they don't attack they wont get hurt are mute arguments as many new players wont know what is going on. OVs should not be in the starting area full stop.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Thing is though theres also a lot of level 6's with no real idea whats going on they see what they think at first is an NPC bad guy in an area that they start in they will attack it.
It can happen, but I'm far more likely to be engaged by a level 40.
Thing is though theres also a lot of level 6's with no real idea whats going on they see what they think at first is an NPC bad guy in an area that they start in they will attack it.
It can happen, but I'm far more likely to be engaged by a level 40.
See the simple way of fixing this would be anyone under a certain level unable to join in on the OV stuff. Have it that you have to be at least level 25 to be be able to attack OVs and be flagged for PvP. If that happens then OVs in Ren Cen wouldn't be an issue. Cryptic made the mistake of having lowbies being able to join in on what is really high level content.
So they can either block OVs from Ren Cen or raise the level requirements for a player to be able to take part in. I'm no game dev so I dont know the code but both options seem pretty simple to me.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Thing is though theres also a lot of level 6's with no real idea whats going on they see what they think at first is an NPC bad guy in an area that they start in they will attack it.
It can happen, but I'm far more likely to be engaged by a level 40.
See the simple way of fixing this would be anyone under a certain level unable to join in on the OV stuff. Have it that you have to be at least level 25 to be be able to attack OVs and be flagged for PvP. If that happens then OVs in Ren Cen wouldn't be an issue. Cryptic made the mistake of having lowbies being able to join in on what is really high level content.
So they can either block OVs from Ren Cen or raise the level requirements for a player to be able to take part in. I'm no game dev so I dont know the code but both options seem pretty simple to me.
^ Never thought about it like that, but nice!
Buffing everything to stupid high levels and nerfing everything to piss poor levels yields the same results, but not the same community reactions.
Thing is though theres also a lot of level 6's with no real idea whats going on they see what they think at first is an NPC bad guy in an area that they start in they will attack it.
It can happen, but I'm far more likely to be engaged by a level 40.
See the simple way of fixing this would be anyone under a certain level unable to join in on the OV stuff. Have it that you have to be at least level 25 to be be able to attack OVs and be flagged for PvP. If that happens then OVs in Ren Cen wouldn't be an issue. Cryptic made the mistake of having lowbies being able to join in on what is really high level content.
So they can either block OVs from Ren Cen or raise the level requirements for a player to be able to take part in. I'm no game dev so I dont know the code but both options seem pretty simple to me.
I regularly fight OVs with low level characters and have fun doing it.
I'm glad that you can find the joy in being killed every six seconds. Really, it's great for you.
However, others begin to feel a sense of futility when a single mistake in attacking something too powerful for them results in their being unable to even get up until someone else has taken care of the threat for them. The lesson a new player learns is liable to be not "Wow, there are things even a superhero might not be strong enough for," but rather "Wow, this game must strictly be for experienced players and maybe I should just pack it in and find something friendlier to the newbie."
See, the thing is, if you've been around for a while then you've been through the standard game. You might get your butt handed to you the first time you fight, say, Kevin Poe, but you've had the experience by then of fighting the lesser members of the New Purple Gang, so you know that it's probably just a matter of choosing a better strategy or maybe getting someone else to come along. On the other hand, a brand-new player has only gone through the tutorial, a segment of a game traditionally crewed by lesser foes so you can actually get through it, then emerges from the Powerhouse - and sees other heroes fighting an OV, can't clearly see who's high-level and who isn't (because unlike other games, your gear in CO doesn't affect your appearance), joins in, and faceplants immediately. And repeatedly. Can you see where that might be a tad discouraging?
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Not only turrets should not be removed, but they should be made working as intended. Maybe even upped in power.
Or, provided it's doable - replace them in RenCen with a different kind of turrets that will teleport an OV player out of RenCen as soon as it enters NPC/turret radius of detection. So it can't be used for farming points.
The turrets really should be removed and REPLACED. with some sort of teleport gun. No one likes accidentally running into a turret and having to wait another whole day to make another attempt at gaining a paltry amount of villain tokens- or even finishing a daily can take several days.
I like having turrets around so i can end my device early without needing to worry about genetic exhaustion. No need to be penalized with 15min duration if i only want to use 5.
There's plenty of places where there aren't turrets - if you don't want to eat a faceful of lead before your mission is over, complete it well away from any turrets.
However, others begin to feel a sense of futility when a single mistake in attacking something too powerful for them results in their being unable to even get up until someone else has taken care of the threat for them.
Urr... respawn location is not at Defender. OVs camping the respawn are a problem at Kodiak, but not Defender.
Comments
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
42 40s, LTSer.
And the tendency of some PvPers to turn newb areas into gankfests because they think it's "fun" was a large part of what drove me away from WoW - especially that plague event where the point was supposed to be working together to stop the plague, not spread it. If we're worried about the population of this game, maybe emulating one that's shedding players as fast as that one is might not be the best idea...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension! - (Dr. Ivo Robotnik: You took the words right out of my mouth.)
And the tendency of some PvPers to turn newb areas into gankfests because they think it's "fun" was a large part of what drove me away from WoW - especially that plague event where the point was supposed to be working together to stop the plague, not spread it. If we're worried about the population of this game, maybe emulating one that's shedding players as fast as that one is might not be the best idea... ===========================================================================
Stupid post the thing did not quote right, I put a line below it separating my post. (Urgh forget it I can't fix Jonsills post to re-quote it, It broke)
Furries Post --> I think I seen a few of those before happened a couple of times. People giving up to easily, come to think of it when I was in support role (Freeform, As Arcane Wolf. Generic Name I know.) and this guy who uses force powers everyone left but only me and this guy stuck together It was hard because we had no tank and no fully dedicated healer at all, I could heal but not as great as a full healer.
Normally the guy who had the force powers was more durable than I am, I was only semi durable (Ebon Void) I picked out the toughest foe in the group and held my ground awhile he took out the weaker foes in that group.
Basically took brains than brawn to beat that with 2 people but was not impossible.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension! - (Dr. Ivo Robotnik: You took the words right out of my mouth.)
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Why is it correct cause it just is so no point arguing the point though. But this being the internets someone probably will.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Move along, move along. Nothing to see here.
42 40s, LTSer.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension! - (Dr. Ivo Robotnik: You took the words right out of my mouth.)
And I disagree. Your "griefing" problems should be solvable by other means than "throw the baby out with the bathwater". Once they "fixed" Clarence, the griefing stopped almost completely.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
If it were up to me I would scarp those outdoor onslaught defenders and create zones that simply disable OV devices within a radius around spawn points and Ren Cen (could these be depicted unobtrusively on the minimap?). I would have the fights take place inside the sorts of buildings villains tend to break into, such as banks, labs, warehouses and so on. Maybe change up what the villains need to destroy to match the type of building they are in (it would be neat if there were a way to include a "protect the civilian" aspect). These would be instances which once entered by an OV would have a red circle placed around them on the zone minimap and announcements sent out in zone chat every minute or two announcing where the OV was so that heroes can find them (seems non-comic booky for villains to constantly show up at Defender in the area with the highest concentration of heroes; it's almost like they want to be captured). The fights would then take place inside the buildings and only between those interested in participating in such a battle. Villains would not be taken down unintentionally by turrets and new players and those simply not wanting to participate would be safe. This sort of approach would obviate the need for turrets altogether.
Note that this would not interfere with villains who want to challenge heroes outside such buildings. E.g. I was in a battle on top of Mercy 2 that was quite enjoyable. Close to a respawn point, but not in such a way that the OV could be unwillingly blasted.
Think about it. It would make more sense from an immersion standpoint AND work around the issues that turret AI's have. There's no where in this game that turrets work quite right, and in Zones it's even worse than instanced-combat (i.e.: Aftershock, Resistance, Serpent Lantern, Whiteout). The only thing that truly works is AI that can walk around and correctly responds to the aggression stealth mechanic.
It's not as hard of a fix to do it that way instead. (compared to working on the aggro mechanics of the turrets).
Consolidate the currencies! (Please!)
Does your Champion have a theme song? (share it!)
Got a funny in-game screenshot? (share it!)
Please fix the Overdrive energy unlock! (Should help promote thematic build diversity!)
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Just plain ol'convenience.
It is similar to how many players moved from traveling about doing missions to simply standing in RenCen waiting for Alerts, or maybe near Mercy for a Rampage PQ.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
No hate for OVs - just dislike for OV players who deliberately look for cheap kills by finding lower-level toons and getting purposely caught in their AoEs and passives.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The arguments here that if they don't attack they wont get hurt are mute arguments as many new players wont know what is going on.
OVs should not be in the starting area full stop.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
If that happens then OVs in Ren Cen wouldn't be an issue. Cryptic made the mistake of having lowbies being able to join in on what is really high level content.
So they can either block OVs from Ren Cen or raise the level requirements for a player to be able to take part in. I'm no game dev so I dont know the code but both options seem pretty simple to me.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Never thought about it like that, but nice!
42 40s, LTSer.
However, others begin to feel a sense of futility when a single mistake in attacking something too powerful for them results in their being unable to even get up until someone else has taken care of the threat for them. The lesson a new player learns is liable to be not "Wow, there are things even a superhero might not be strong enough for," but rather "Wow, this game must strictly be for experienced players and maybe I should just pack it in and find something friendlier to the newbie."
See, the thing is, if you've been around for a while then you've been through the standard game. You might get your butt handed to you the first time you fight, say, Kevin Poe, but you've had the experience by then of fighting the lesser members of the New Purple Gang, so you know that it's probably just a matter of choosing a better strategy or maybe getting someone else to come along. On the other hand, a brand-new player has only gone through the tutorial, a segment of a game traditionally crewed by lesser foes so you can actually get through it, then emerges from the Powerhouse - and sees other heroes fighting an OV, can't clearly see who's high-level and who isn't (because unlike other games, your gear in CO doesn't affect your appearance), joins in, and faceplants immediately. And repeatedly. Can you see where that might be a tad discouraging?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
There's plenty of places where there aren't turrets - if you don't want to eat a faceful of lead before your mission is over, complete it well away from any turrets.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained