Loyal Sidekick Prices 1500 Zen each?!

crypticbuxom

No! This can't be the price of a permanent, preset sidekick that binds to ONE character. I would be happy to spend 400 Zen for each if they were BoE.

The only way you can justify this price is if it doesn't bind at all. This is absolutely ridiculous. Cryptic, you are being really greedy!


Acceptable Prices:
400 Zen - Loyal Sidekick - BoE
1500 Zen - Loyal Sidekick - Does not Bind

Previous threads
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/253066/make-sidekicks-permanent-already/p1
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/251717/permanent-premade-sidekicks-henchmen/p1​​

nbkxs

I concur, I was going to pick one up for one of my characters; to compliment her, but >.o Just too much, can't do it.​​

biffsmackwell

How beneficial is it to have a sidekick? I've like rarely ever used one, and when I did it was like against Takofanes, so I don't really have a yardstick to measure their worth.

nbkxs

It depends on where you're using them, in any of the tougher stuff; they only last a few seconds, unless you can heal them.​​

crypticbuxom

Costume prices (Unlock account wide). Aura set prices (BoA). Become device prices (does not bind). Vehicle Prices (BoA).

There's your yardstick to measure worth.


They're certainly not the price of two character slots. Price it like a become device, don't make it bind. Price it like a costume or aura set, make it bind to account. If its not " beneficial to have a sidekick", why is it priced that high?​​

biffsmackwell

I dunno, simply measuring against other store items and how they bind seems arbitrary to me, which is why I'm wondering about in-game function. Like, does it kick so much butt that running through the content and getting to 40 takes half as long? Probably worth it. Does it barely affect your damage output to the point where it's more beneficial to slot in a heal potion instead of the sidekick? Not worth it.

I already think they're too limited in terms of theme and looks, which prevents me from even thinking about getting one, so that's why I wonder about their in-game performance.

crypticbuxom

You can measure price based on Binding type. They've done this before. And it reflects all throughout the Store.

Through the years talking about this, the price it is right now is the very value that I said was NOT going to make me or others pay. Would you spend $15 for each of your characters to get this one sidekick? If the answer is no, then its too high.

(Don't respond with "I'm not going to get this for all my characters" because that is avoiding the question. If they do introduce a sidekick that you may want to have on all of your characters, its going to be set at this price. Then what happens when they figure out how to make customizable ones. How will that be priced? Will it be $50 each BoE?)​​

meedacthunist

Sidekicks are mostly a cosmetic feature, like costumes or auras. This is how beneficial is to have one.

Which is why it's a strange decision to have them character bound.

The permanent ones come on a similar price point with costumes or vehicles, but they bound to characters...​​

pantagruel01

Typical sidekicks do a few hundred dps; Windchill can put out about 500, which is higher than average (haven't tested this new one yet). However, like all pets they'll get devoured if you try to speedrun through content and usually get chewed up in things like cosmic fights because of all the AoEs; I don't believe they have pet AoE resistance, though they have higher health than most pets. I've been seeing a few sidekicks (including temporary ones) in the Clarence fights, and if there isn't something coming in healing them (usually sentinel mastery) they don't last very long.

Sidekick prices in the Z store have always been a bit out of control, though; the only sidekicks I've ever bought from the Z store was the twins, and that was because of the unlocks, not the sidekick.

biffsmackwell

Thanks Mee, that's the type of info I was looking for. If it's highly cosmetic, I would pay this amount if we could create the costume. Otherwise they're not much different than an aura to me, a thing that I have all but skipped out on because of the way they delivered the final product.

I only have like two characters out of 80 that use an aura, and I got it from either lockboxes or the exchange. In comparison, I have a few characters who would look good fighting alongside the Indy Kid. For a bind on pickup/equip for being a mostly cosmetic thing, I'd pay maybe six bucks tops. If it was actually of in-game use, I'd pay maybe 10-12 bucks for it. Fifteen to twenty for a customizable one.

I don't like this price but it pretty much reflects what people are paying for Windchill. Using the standard conversion rate of 100g=100zen, people are actually paying around 20 bucks for it.

If they're BoE I'll have more interest in them since I could use in-game cash to acquire them.

biffsmackwell

pantagruel01 said:

Typical sidekicks do a few hundred dps; Windchill can put out about 500, which is higher than average (haven't tested this new one yet). However, like all pets they'll get devoured if you try to speedrun through content and usually get chewed up in things like cosmic fights because of all the AoEs; I don't believe they have pet AoE resistance, though they have higher health than most pets. I've been seeing a few sidekicks (including temporary ones) in the Clarence fights, and if there isn't something coming in healing them (usually sentinel mastery) they don't last very long.

Sidekick prices in the Z store have always been a bit out of control, though; the only sidekicks I've ever bought from the Z store was the twins, and that was because of the unlocks, not the sidekick.

Thanks for the info. I agree on the pricing. For something that will only last an hour, I wouldn't pay much more than a buck.

I'm curious, were the sidekicks any more useful when they came out than they are now?

crypticbuxom

Sidekicks are as useful as a device that summons a temporary ally. The henchmen, the Destroyer Head, etc.​​

meedacthunist

I'd say sidekicks were marginally more useful before On Alert but it's because some mobs started hitting harder after this update.
Can't say I ever bough any sidekick not counting Harajuku twins and it was only because of weapon unlock. The only real use I had for a sidekick was to temporarily draw fire. Otherwise - they aren't durable enough to do anything. They die too fast. I doubt if being a permanent device is gonna cause wonders to how useful they are.

They're a fluff stuff if for some reason you need a sidekick or a mook for your character and little more than that.​​

riverocean

These are being priced like "Away Team" crew members in STO. The problem is, those STO crew members have full customization and are extremely useful. CO sidekicks need a serious amount of buffing - if they expect to be sold at those prices. If they weren't selling before - they sure as heck aren't going to sell now.

So if anyone's listening. Buff up the damage and hit-points on sidekicks. Remove the duration limits. Make them fully tradeable at any point.

If none of that is possible, lower the price. Because right now they are not worth the Zen investment.​​

crypticbuxom

I would spend 1500 Zen for a fully customizable sidekick, even if it is BoE. And it comes with a full set of useful gear and it can have whatever powers I want on it.​​

kamokami

I'm probably going to buy it

roughbearmattach

riverocean said:

These are being priced like "Away Team" crew members in STO. The problem is, those STO crew members have full customization and are extremely useful. CO sidekicks need a serious amount of buffing - if they expect to be sold at those prices. If they weren't selling before - they sure as heck aren't going to sell now.



So if anyone's listening. Buff up the damage and hit-points on sidekicks. Remove the duration limits. Make them fully tradeable at any point.



If none of that is possible, lower the price. Because right now they are not worth the Zen investment.​​

This here ^^

Sidekicks are basically cosmetic. They do little damage and die quickly, and the permanent ones have a long cooldown.

Ah, well.

kallethen

Yikes. That's certainly a price point that makes me pass.

Maybe, and I mean MAYBE, if they were more useful in combat and modable like companions on NW... But as they are now, I won't pay for a perm sidekick at that price.​​

guyhumual

I don't use regular side kicks at all, I bought the twins years ago for the costume unlock and have never summoned them. If they were permanent I might buy and use them at their current price, but not at this inflated price. I'll be honest though, I don't think in a customizable game like this a premade henchman is a useful item. I could design a character that uses a character a henchman like this one, but much like the vehicles, unless you randomly design a henchman that fits with one of my already existing characters, chances are I'm not going to be interested. Now, as other have pointed out, if we designed the henchman, maybe even gave us a device to summon in one of our own character in the henchman role, that I think I'd buy at 1500 zen. This? Not likely.

avianos

Not going to waste money on Forgettable CO deep dark lore Sidekicks!

I will only accept the price if the Sidekick Powers and Costumes are 100% Costumized


Oh so Emily Lovett is bound on equip too? Who thought that was a good idea?​​

draogn

So another overpriced item for the Z-store, a pattern is starting to form. Much like the auras and vehicles the sidekicks should either be boa or an account wide purchase (much like other games you buy it once and the item can be claimed on each character).

theravenforce

Okay.

So I did buy this sidekick, earlier today.

I hope they'll auto add the unique costume piece as well in the near future.

I will say, I was shocked at the price, 1,200 (1500). For that price I would expect her to auto re-spawn if she is killed in combat and only de-spawn if my 15 minutes are up.

Still, she does compliment the one darkness character I have.

avianos

theravenforce wrote: »

Okay.

So I did buy this sidekick, earlier today.

I hope they'll auto add the unique costume piece as well in the near future.

I will say, I was shocked at the price, 1,200 (1500). For that price I would expect her to auto re-spawn if she is killed in combat and only de-spawn if my 15 minutes are up.

Still, she does compliment the one darkness character I have.

The costume piece is something to add either in Drifter or Questionite store
I also noticed that even the female Mysticism trainers wear it

Worst Case Scenario: they make it only unlockable if you purchase the Permanent Emilly Lovett​​

decorumfriends

Count me in with the "make it customizable and I'll pay that much" crowd (even if you could only customize it once and never again). Not before. I've toyed with the idea of getting the Harajuku Twins for Go-Metal, but I always seem to find something better to spend my Zen on. The Colonial uses Indy Lad on a regular basis, but that's because all my characters gave him their temps from 4th of July. He doesn't seem to be much of a factor in the fights, but he's a handy aggro magnet at the start. Go get 'em, Boy Cannon Fodder!

kyastral

riverocean said:

These are being priced like "Away Team" crew members in STO. The problem is, those STO crew members have full customization and are extremely useful. CO sidekicks need a serious amount of buffing - if they expect to be sold at those prices. If they weren't selling before - they sure as heck aren't going to sell now.



So if anyone's listening. Buff up the damage and hit-points on sidekicks. Remove the duration limits. Make them fully tradeable at any point.



If none of that is possible, lower the price. Because right now they are not worth the Zen investment.​​

Exactly. I think the CO devs need to spend time benchmarking other games on how they present permanent support NPC's to players. For example, the mercernaries (equivelent to sidekicks) in Everquest are easy to obtain via tutorial (free!), missions, vet rewards and certain purchase perks ( buy a level 85 pack and you get 2 mercenary contracts to obtain mercenaries). The main cost of mercenaries are their pay and extra mercenary slots; they have a daily salary that is paid with in-game money and slots are available as a purchasable service. However, you can have your mercenary wear modified customizable gear, learn spells and abilities, gain exp and raise their attributes according to their race and class. If you can afford it, you can have more than one!

With Everquest in mind, this is what I think CO can do with their sidekicks;
1) Make permanent sidekicks reasonably obtainable via missions, perks, vet rewards, gold store rewards, LTS rewards. For example; give Foxbat Camerabots for free just for playing CO, subscribe for 3 months and get Windchill and have Emily Lovett available for 300 zen after completing Vibora Bay Apocolypse, Demonflame and Aftershock solo with a magic-based hero. Freeform heroes would have to have at least 50% of their powers magic based in order to get the credit.

2) Allow sidekicks to have access to the tailor and customize their gear. Players should be able to have to the option to change their own hero's gear or their sidekick's gear when they enter the tailor menu. The sidekicks should have access to at least the basic hero tailor options according to membership. Sidekick colors should be tintable; however, their auras or effects would not change as Windchill would still have her "frosty" appearance no matter what color change she goes through, for example.

3) The sidekick's gear should be open for modification at level 30. They should be able to use modified gear up to Heroic; after all, even Robin's upgraded gear was never as powerful as Batman's, even when he became Nightwing.

4) Allow players the choice of keeping or releasing their sidekicks after level 40. Some players may find that keeping their sidekick in top shape may be a bit expensive and/or time consuming. If a player decides to keep their sidekick at level 40, they are free to create another one. If they decide to release the sidekick they are still free to create another one, but they will have to pay a certain amount of in-game currency to do so and may find that their sidekick will help/hinder the efforts of that hero's nemesis.

5) Allow players the option to have up to two sidekicks available at one time. It works for the Harujuku twins, so why not with other types of sidekicks? After level 40, a player should be able to create and maintain another sidekick whether or not they keep the first one.

Remember, these are only suggestions and opinions from my point of view. Feel free to "FLAME ON!" but I will stay frosty with a nice cold drink.

nextnametaken

Yeah logged in, checked out the sidekick deal, logged out. No sale.

avianos

I can already hear people whining about "Power Creep" if DEVs buff Sidekicks/pets or import the STO's partner system!

God forbids actually making Sidekicks/Pets useful in combat and not only for Theme​​

meedacthunist

Yeah, STO away team members are much more useful and actually worthy this kind of a price point. They can use the same equipment as player characters, they can have ranked skills that player may not possess if only because they're from different class and they're fully controllable. In space they're basically additional power slots for your bridge. And let's not forget their look is fully customisable.​​

roughbearmattach

At this price point, customizable sidekicks would sell like hotcakes.

Wait--do hotcakes sell well?

biffsmackwell

I dunno, but that would make for a great fire-based sidekick!

kallethen

I made a comparison to NW's companions because I'm most familiar with that and I think they fill in a similar role. NW's companions aren't awesome in combat. Thinking on it, they are probably on par with CO's pet powers for damage and health, but that can still be of some use. They are also always out, no 15 minute limit. The best thing is that you can slot mods and minor gear into them. Cosmetically, NW's companions have different appearances as you level them up (generally they have more impressive armor and such as they are higher level).

1500 zen is in the price range of NW's companions (800z is the lowest price, 3000z is the highest price), but I feel with the reduced functionality that it is the wrong price tag.​​

chainfall

STO Bridge Officers generally cost 500 zen.

chaelk

yes, please remember.
If they are too low damage and don't survive, people won't want them.Despite the fact, there is very little reason for them, apart from Bait and for a few AT's.
BUT if they are more powerful and survivable, then they risk becoming a 'must have' item, getting too popular, getting complained about and then nerfed.​​

rap9

They should probably just include some costume unlocks with it that can't be gotten without. Then the masses shall pay.

decorumfriends

Not that I want them to do that, but you probably ARE right.

ealford1985

rap9 said:

They should probably just include some costume unlocks with it that can't be gotten without. Then the masses shall pay.

I think this was mentioned at one point. Some of the sidekicks have at least one piece of unattainable costumes (knee pads)

I know personally I would buy them all if there was an additional reward tied to them.

riverocean

kallethen said:

I made a comparison to NW's companions because I'm most familiar with that and I think they fill in a similar role. NW's companions aren't awesome in combat. Thinking on it, they are probably on par with CO's pet powers for damage and health, but that can still be of some use. They are also always out, no 15 minute limit. The best thing is that you can slot mods and minor gear into them. Cosmetically, NW's companions have different appearances as you level them up (generally they have more impressive armor and such as they are higher level).



1500 zen is in the price range of NW's companions (800z is the lowest price, 3000z is the highest price), but I feel with the reduced functionality that it is the wrong price tag.​​

Exactly. I made a similar suggestion on another thread. While making sidekicks permanent is a good first step - they really need improvement if they want people to spend large amounts of zen on them. While I'm not as familiar with NW's companion setup - it seems like it would well on CO.

Hope someone is considering this suggestion!

wraithshadow13

roughbearmattach said:

This here ^^

Sidekicks are basically cosmetic. They do little damage and die quickly, and the permanent ones have a long cooldown.

Ah, well.

I fully agree.

First:
It's nice to see that i'm not the only one upset and posting about the absurd pricing coming from the game. On sale even, the store version was still $12, which is WAAAAAAY to high for how little your getting.

I was even legitimately excited about the new side kicks until I actually looked at them and the price.

I would pay 300-400 zen for that, tops. As others have said, it's just not worth it. The damage is poor, the survivability isn't there, and you can't customize them. In Star Trek Online, I get three of these guys on my team at once, no cool down or summoning, and they're fully customizable in looks and builds. To beat that, they're free, they're F@#$ING FREE, and they pass them out like candy. I have bridge officers that I don't even use, they're just there to hold all of my spare equipment, like they were extra bank slots. AND! And they actually have benefits while using the Vehicles.

There is no way I would pay more that 400 zen for this crap.

If I could:
A) customize the appearance
customize the powers
C) have them out indefinitely (instead of this 15 minute crap)

then, and only then would I consider paying 500-700 zen.

It's completely asinine to charge that much for something in this game. Vehicles certainly aren't worth that. A lot of the services and items aren't worth that.

Is it the PWE overloards? Have they even played this game? Or are they just dictating prices based off generic spreadsheets of all their games? If it's just the Los Gatos office calling prices, than some one is clearly higher than the invisible ceiling in Millennium City.


Between the three options, what would you range your prices (willing to pay amount)

1) Current Sidekicks (limited)

2) Current Sidekicks (permanent)

3) More Combat Viable Current Sidekicks (temp/perm)

4) Visibly Customizable Sidekicks (permanent, obviously)

5) "Bridge Officer" sidekicks (custom look, powers, equipment, always out until disabled)


Hell... at this point, with how dead this game can be, I would PAY for an expansion that let me build "away team" like groups.

Could you imagine that? Building a team of 1-4 characters, using the same set up STO has? Obviously, they would have to use the same principles for team vs solo play, but how great would it be to get that here?

THAT, I would pay for.

Sidekicks, as they currently stand, no.

crypticbuxom

chainfall wrote: »

STO Bridge Officers generally cost 500 zen.

Yes. Why is there such a massive pricing discrepancy? Its no wonder Champions stopped doing better than STO.

wraithshadow13 wrote: »

Between the three options, what would you range your prices (willing to pay amount)

1) Current Sidekicks (limited)

2) Current Sidekicks (permanent)

3) More Combat Viable Current Sidekicks (temp/perm)

4) Visibly Customizable Sidekicks (permanent, obviously)

5) "Bridge Officer" sidekicks (custom look, powers, equipment, always out until disabled)

I made a journal a long while back about recommendations to changes on sidekicks. Its pretty relevant to answering this list.

1.) Make all current store sidekicks permanent. Just remove the temporary one hour. Double the original price and make them BoA.

2.) Make all sidekicks and henchmen that drop in game permanent too and BoE.

3.) Charge players 800 Zen for fully customizable sidekicks that we can choose their powers and start with generic player gear.

4.) Make it so you can have as many sidekicks as you want out. Only 1 during Duel and Arena, and reduce max number exponentially when you have players on your team to a max of 1 per player.

5.) Pemanent Sidekicks that don't bind at all are fair to charge 1500 Zen for as comparable to all permanent store devices like Becomes and Super Magnifier/Shrinker.


Previous threads
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/253066/make-sidekicks-permanent-already/p1
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline#/discussion/251717/permanent-premade-sidekicks-henchmen/p1​​

wraithshadow13

crypticbuxom said:

Its no wonder Champions stopped doing better than STO.

Actually, it CO stopped doing better than STO, because the Devs completely gave up on CO to make STO. They only got the STO rights after Perpetual dropped the ball, by saying they could do it in a short amount of time, which happened to be a year into CO, leading to about a year of no content for the game... which is bad for a game that's only been out for one year. Since that, CO has been pretty neglected, being bounced around with no one really being given the resources to do a whole lot with it.

At this point, I'm not really even sure what they CAN do, let alone what they're willing to do. While it's the same engine, I doubt they would be able to copy and paste over the code to make Boffs (as they're called in STO) an optional feature, but it would be well worth their time/effort to do it, more so even, with other Superhero MMO's in the pipeline. While this game is suffering, being able to make a fully custom sidekick/partner to a full team (doffing) of custom heroes, would add an entire level of awesome to this game. Single Player content would be that much better, Soloing harder content would be awesome, Any team vs team pvp or grouping they added would be fun. The only downside would be them not having as many costume slots as the Hero.

Regardless, it would be a huge addition to the game to add custom team members.