FC.31.20150919.28 - LIVE Fixes

ladygadfly

Release Notes for FC.31.20150919.28
This build is available on PTS as of 11/03/2015

Blood Moon Updates
- Increased drop rate of Turakian Coin on Harbinger of Woe, Doom Lords, and Death Lords.
- Increased chance of drop for Fenny and Negaladon Action Figures from Ghost Ship.
- Added back missing icon textures.
- Changed the Turakian Coin drop rate for the Bronze level reward.

Bug Fixes
- Fixed default Alert buff power to default to duration 2 to prevent buffs from persisting outside of Alert maps.
- Fixed issue with backup devices where summoned entities were inheriting inhererent buffs from players instead of just team-based buffs.
- Added new icon for gold subscriber reward.
- Updated in-game message text to use the new crafting bonus (10%).

Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens

Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go here: http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/categories/gameplay-bugs1.

These player & moderator maintained threads are checked weekly by the development team:
- http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/championsonline/#/discussion/1203148/onslaught-bugs-and-balance-qol-concerns
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198089/known-power-bugs
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1194284/champions-online-alerts-issues
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1199083/costume-bug-list
- http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1198119/compiled-list-of-bugs-issues-and-qol-concerns-version-2-0

kamokami

ladygadfly said:

Bug Fixes
- Fixed default Alert buff power to default to duration 2 to prevent buffs from persisting outside of Alert maps.
- Fixed issue with backup devices where summoned entities were inheriting inhererent buffs from players instead of just team-based buffs.

Ah good stuffs. These two combined was a bit much during events.

championshewolf

Yep, very nice to see.​​

aiqa

Removing SS scaling from backup devices made a huge difference.

On PTS I get:
Your Nighthawk deals 6003 (7203) Crushing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B with Ricochet Throw.

On live:
Your Nighthawk deals 25887 (31065) Crushing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy C with Ricochet Throw.

I can't say I am sad about this. The open missions were being decided mostly by backup devices (and IR mk3) now.

pantagruel01

Huh. That's not just SS scaling, you don't get +300% from superstats. It was probably scaling off of Concentration et al. Incoming nerf whines, though.

aiqa

I didn't build any concentration for those tests, and it shouldn't scale of electric form.

pantagruel01

aiqa said:

I didn't build any concentration for those tests.

Offensive passive? The difference between 7.2k and 31k is way more than can be accounted for by just deleting superstat bonuses.

crypticbuxom

Another Backup nerf. Mind reducing the cooldowns again to compensate since they were increased because of their high damage? Put them right back down to 12 minutes and make the cooldown effected by intelligence will make up for this.​​

aiqa

pantagruel01 said:

aiqa said:

I didn't build any concentration for those tests.

Offensive passive? The difference between 7.2k and 31k is way more than can be accounted for by just deleting superstat bonuses.

That is not it.

This is another character,using hybrid role, and a defense passive, and I disabled my form.
The SS bonuses are: 95% damage bonus from SS and 44% melee from STR.

Live: Your Ironclad deals 26443 (31731) Crushing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B with Annihiliate.

PTS: Your Ironclad deals 8000 (9600) Crushing Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B with Annihiliate.

I'll try damage on live after removing gear later.

pantagruel01

If Offense and stars were also applying the damage diff makes sense I think.

pantagruel01

So, testing the new crafting bonus: started with 104 rank 4 mod. Nominal crafting chance is 73%. Results: 19 successes, 9 failures, 67% chance.

Trying the same with r7 mods, 35% nominal chance. Results: 16 successes, 20 failures, 44%.

You sure the percentages in item fusion are accurate to start with?

notyuu

Ok...if you plan on making the backups about as weak as a gnats fart..you should also make them last longer when summoned.

the main reason people usually clammer over each-other to get said backups is becasue they are so powerful, if extremely short lived, if you take away that power without increasing the duration appropriately, then the device would be rendered moot in function and desire outside of thematic (srsly, nobody is going to bother with a device that summons a mob which does 6-9k per second for 15 seconds)

an alternative that I suggest to the backup "problem" as it were...would be making the cooldown on them longer, like say... an hour instead of the current 30 mins.

theravenforce

In light of this strong damage adjustment to Back Up Devices...I'd suggest one of the following:

*Allow them to be toggled, like UNTIL Soldiers. When de-toggled they have a cooldown which is only slightly longer than UNTIL Soldier devices.

*Allow them to last for 10 minutes each with a flat, inflexible 40 minute cooldown (NOT shared). (This allows people who have multiple Champions to actually be rewarded for obtaining and binding multiples to one toon) (BONUS EFFECT: Bonus points if the 10 minute duration only ticks down if the player is in combat outside of this the Back Up Champion follows the player around).

--

Back Up Devices, if used as a toggle or allowed to last SIGNIFICANTLY LONGER, should have unique travel powers tied to the back up Champion:

Defender - Jet Boots
Kinetik - Super Speed
Sapphire - Power Flight
Witchcraft - Mystic Flight
Ironclad - Super Jump
Nighthawk - Acrobatics

As others have already pointed out, people are not, seriously going to bother with the Back Up Devices now that they have been yet again adjusted.

Whilst this adjustment is a welcome adjustment (for some), I would strongly suggest that whatever else is done to these back up devices allows players to have them out in the field for longer.

aiqa

pantagruel01 said:

If Offense and stars were also applying the damage diff makes sense I think.

Well offense is 20% and stars obviously 15%, 9600*(1+0.95+0.44+0.15)*1.2=29260 so that is getting pretty close.

theravenforce said:

In light of this strong damage adjustment to Back Up Devices...I'd suggest one of the following:

*Allow them to be toggled, like UNTIL Soldiers. When de-toggled they have a cooldown which is only slightly longer than UNTIL Soldier devices.

*Allow them to last for 10 minutes each with a flat, inflexible 40 minute cooldown (NOT shared). (This allows people who have multiple Champions to actually be rewarded for obtaining and binding multiples to one toon)

They are not nearly weak enough to justify a change like that, it would be a huge buff to damage per backup per hour compared to what they do now. So their dps is about a 25% of what it on live, with a 40 times higher duration 1 backup could do 10 times as much damage, and on top of that even allowing rotation?

So the only thing that would change is backups going from a requirement for bossfights, to a requirement for every part of CO (for people who like to maximize their dps).

theravenforce

aiqa said:

They are not nearly weak enough to justify a change like that, it would be a huge buff to damage per backup per hour compared to what they do now. So their dps is about a 25% of what it on live, with a 40 times higher duration 1 backup could do 10 times as much damage, and on top of that even allowing rotation?

So the only thing that would change is backups going from a requirement for bossfights, to a requirement for every part of CO (for people who like to maximize their dps).

I for one, use back ups if they are really necessary, which isn't most of the time but generally they are used to gain/ deal a large portion of damage.

Now that they deal noticeably LESS damage than before, I'd still maintain that their duration (whilst perhaps not being as long as 10 mins) needs to be increased to a respectable amount.

Considering some back ups use charges and others use maintains, some will obviously be more valuable than others. Perhaps a review of the powers they use or better adjusting the charge damage or charge times would be a good idea as well as adjusting their time on the field.

15 seconds is not long enough.

Perhaps allow them to last for 180 seconds with a shared 30 minute CD?

aiqa

I think this change is meant to lower their overall damage, not improve it. If the duration is increased by a factor of 12, their damage would need to be lowered by more than that, and while this was a big change it's not nearly a factor of 12.

I think increasing the duration to 30 seconds at most would be ok, but any higherwould need further adjustments to their damage.

themightyzenith

I like this change to backups in the OP. They do ridiculously high amounts of damage atm so the incoming fix seems about right without reducing their cooldown imo. They still do high enough damage with this change.

notyuu

Nerfing the backups like this is just a bad idea (you already nerfed them before, reducing them from level 60 to player level..and now you're rendering them useless) don't understand where I'm comming from?

Just look at the following example.



and you can see why taking the damage out of the burst damage device is a stupid, stupid move...

and yes, you're seeing that right, I do more damage than the backup on this toon...so in other words..the backup has been reduced to...a joke, because nothing says "we care" like taking the main point of a device out of the device.

people want the back up devices so much because they are basically short duration high burst damage items...you take the damage out of them (which is what hits nerf is doing) and they are reduced to what? a weak pet device that lasts 15 seconds...we already have enough weak devices, we don't need any more joining them.

themightyzenith

Is the Ricochet Throw damage shown above while in stealth and thereby taking advantage of the stealth bonus? Is it with top end gear and very high stats notyuu? Also, how many examples of both attacks did you do because once is not enough to prove anything really?

I'm not sure that Ricochet Throw is the best example to use for comparison either.

notyuu

themightyzenith said:

I imagine that the Ricochet Throw damage shown above is while in stealth and thereby taking advantage of the stealth bonus. I imagine it's also with top end gear and very high stats notyuu.

first of all, no (cuz eww stealth), and second of all, it was with heroics laoded with R7 & vig gear....would have done it on one of my toons that has justice gear but they didn't have the backup...soo yeah.

but that aside, the point still stands..the backups are doing alarmingly low damage for what is meant to be a high yield burst device..which is just making them uselss (as well as going to incur the wrath of the people that worked their asses off to get said back up devices)

cascadence

For one I am completely fine with the nerf to the backup devices, maybe a buff to 25 second duration would be cool, but besides that I was aware that they were becoming pretty much a requirement if you wanted to top dps on world bosses.

championshewolf

Yep, the nerf is justified. In most cases the back ups are still doing more damage than average player, they just aren't doing ridiculous damage. Backup devices have been ridiculously overpowered and there is no justification for them.​​

aiqa

The worth is a backup device is the damage it does, compared to the time you need to spend on it, balanced by the cooldown.
That damage is still much higher than anything else you can spend that second on that is takes you to use the device.

Comparing the dps of the device to your own build where you spend 15 seconds of your own time doing damage is meaningless.
The only thing that is important is figuring out how much damage a device that is activated on a click, and with half an hour cooldown, should reasonably do.

wingedkagouti

notyuu said:

but that aside, the point still stands..the backups are doing alarmingly low damage for what is meant to be a high yield burst device..

I seriously doubt that the backup devices were ever meant to do as much damage as they do. I also doubt that they were intended to be as noticable a component of their owners' damage output as they are, whether burst or sustained. Even on PTS they're still very powerful compared to any other device.

darqaura2

championshewolf said:

Yep, the nerf is justified. In most cases the back ups are still doing more damage than average player, they just aren't doing ridiculous damage. Backup devices have been ridiculously overpowered and there is no justification for them.​​

I precisely never bothered with them because I saw the nerf coming a mile a way.

Though I may be somewhat biased as there are few devices I ever use.

notyuu

wingedkagouti said:

notyuu said:

but that aside, the point still stands..the backups are doing alarmingly low damage for what is meant to be a high yield burst device..

I seriously doubt that the backup devices were ever meant to do as much damage as they do. I also doubt that they were intended to be as noticable a component of their owners' damage output as they are, whether burst or sustained. Even on PTS they're still very powerful compared to any other device.

if they were never meant to do that much damage in the first place then why do they last 15 seconds with a 30 mins CD?

also "comapred to any other device" have you seen the other high end devices? they do anywhere between 4-8K a hit with a CD a LOT shorter than most other devices too boot...

so once again I ask why is the damage reduction nessery? why not do the smart thing and increase the cooldown to an hour and decrease the duration down to 10 seconds instead?

because reducing the damage just takes the point out of the device...think about it for a moment, why do people crowed around the champs HQ waiting for the mega destroids to attack during the anniversary event? to try and get a perma backup..why do they want a perma backup? becasue it's a high damage spike device with a very long CD...but if you take out the damage..what's left other than sub par damage over the course of 15 seconds?

also, for "themightyzennith" here's a little clarity for ya.






and yes I'm more thana little annoyed at this, becasue ONCE AGAIN somethign needed to be done and ONCE AGAIN cryptic is taking the heavy handed approach which is going to cause more harm than the intinal problem....coudl you use your brain for once and actually think about the total implications of such a change instead of a singular implication of it...yes doing this will help in open missions, but it also pretty much slaps every single player that worked to get a backup/the g to buy a backup across the face....not cool cryptic..not cool.

stellariodragon

Nice!

championshewolf wrote: »

Yep, the nerf is justified. In most cases the back ups are still doing more damage than average player, they just aren't doing ridiculous damage. Backup devices have been ridiculously overpowered and there is no justification for them.

I always saw them as something like a Final-fantasy Monster summon. They're supposed to show up, look cool, do a big hit of damage, and disappear. I really hope they aren't just becoming temporary sidekicks.​​

morigosa

While I'd love to get the backup device cooldown reduced, this nerf isn't going to take the thing off my bars. Notyuu, keep in mind, the "low damage" you're complaining about is one hit out of several; overall the backup devices are still the strongest attack device you can get. All this nerf really does for me is make me more likely to just use the temp backups I've got.

And the places where I really want to use backups... well, those are things that just plain need to have fewer hit points / less durability: The Harbinger in the Lemurian Invasion rampage, Cybermind in his custom alert, and of course Duratok and Ironclad in Forum Malvanum.

themightyzenith

notyuu said:

also, for "themightyzennith" here's a little clarity for ya.

As I thought, Ricochet Throw is about the worst attack to compare the back-up devices to.........due to it's OPness.

Thanks for the confirmation.

notyuu said:

..... it also pretty much slaps every single player that worked to get a backup/the g to buy a backup across the face....

Equating playing a game to working

purin1

The nerf to backups was listed as a bug fix, so I'm gonna go ahead and assume their outrageous damage they can normally put out is unintended. They're still going to be useful. People will still use them for the huge increase in DPS they provide.

bazodee

Are we hoping to nerf backups to sidekicks?

Well, that's one boss OM I'll not be grinding anymore.

I guess this is fallout from score tables

notyuu

themightyzenith said:

notyuu said:

..... it also pretty much slaps every single player that worked to get a backup/the g to buy a backup across the face....

Equating playing a game to working

oh yes, because running the event every hour for 16 hours a day for 3 weeks solid to get a backup is soooo relaxing...

while I do somewhat agree that something needs to be done about the backups, going along the lines of reducing their summon time and increasing the cool down on the devices (to 10 seconds and 1 hour, respectively) would be less of a "lol screw u" to the backup holders as well as leaving reason enough to actually use/farm for them while making them less overly used for minor bosses.

Simply put...if you go though with this nerf without doing something to make the backup more than a joke, you would have pretty much killed the incentive to set about trying to get them...in other words, they would be made into yet another useless device to get thrown onto the trash pile (and between 90% of the drifter kit stuff, mobs drops and a vec not equiped with mk2/3 incendries and a grav pulse...wel already have enough trash devices as is)

theravenforce

I would still request an increase in duration.

I'm not gonna lie...I'd really prefer them as a powerful toggle or something similar to the Champions we see in UNITY Overwatch missions.

But that's obviously not everyone's cup of tea.

themightyzenith

notyuu said:

oh yes, because running the event every hour for 16 hours a day for 3 weeks solid to get a backup is soooo relaxing...

Seriously, that is not good for your mental or physical health. At the end of the day it's a game.

notyuu

themightyzenith said:

notyuu said:

oh yes, because running the event every hour for 16 hours a day for 3 weeks solid to get a backup is soooo relaxing...

Seriously, that is not good for your mental or physical health. At the end of the day it's a game.

Yeah, well unfortunately for me I'm somewhere between a maniac depressive and kinda housebound (yay spinal damage for painful walking/standing/carrying) so this game is kinda all I've really got, sadly. :<

but rambling aside..I still think it's a rather stupid idea to take the main function out of the backups...

pantagruel01

I will say it might be time to add 30s to the Duratok/Ironclad fight in Forum Malvanum. Backup spam is one of the few ways left for completing that fight without a full premade.

themightyzenith

notyuu said:

Yeah, well unfortunately for me I'm somewhere between a maniac depressive and kinda housebound (yay spinal damage for painful walking/standing/carrying) so this game is kinda all I've really got, sadly. :<

I'm sorry to hear that, notyuu. Really.

notyuu

themightyzenith said:

notyuu said:

Yeah, well unfortunately for me I'm somewhere between a maniac depressive and kinda housebound (yay spinal damage for painful walking/standing/carrying) so this game is kinda all I've really got, sadly. :<

I'm sorry to hear that, notyuu. Really.

like I said, it's rambling...main topic on hand is making sure that the backup devices get fixed rather than nerfed into oblivion.

because some of us like it when a high yeild spike device actually delivers on that high yeild spike..somethign most other devices have to be somewaht tailored for...

themightyzenith

Then the issue we have here is what would you consider high enough damage for a high spike. This is what it boils down to. Some would say that with this nerf/bug fix that it delivers on that. You say it doesn't.

What is "high damage" exactly?

notyuu

themightyzenith said:

Then the issue we have here is what would you consider high enough damage for a high spike. This is what it boils down to. Some would say that with this nerf/bug fix that it delivers on that. You say it doesn't.

What is "high damage" exactly?

15K or greater on a singular hit/second is what I would consder very high..and a suitable amount for a 15 second summon to do per strike...not this 5-7K wishy washy junk that is easily surpriassed by a player build...

pantagruel01

notyuu said:

15K or greater on a singular hit/second is what I would consder very high..and a suitable amount for a 15 second summon to do per strike...not this 5-7K wishy washy junk that is easily surpriassed by a player build...

So you think a click effect should do 225,000 damage? Yeah, no. Devices should be an adjunct to player damage, not a replacement.

notyuu

pantagruel01 said:

notyuu said:

15K or greater on a singular hit/second is what I would consder very high..and a suitable amount for a 15 second summon to do per strike...not this 5-7K wishy washy junk that is easily surpriassed by a player build...

So you think a click effect should do 225,000 damage? Yeah, no. Devices should be an adjunct to player damage, not a replacement.

that's on the assumption that the backup used their attacks every 1 second, but outside of keneitcs 100hands all of the backups hits once every 2-4 seconds, and even then there is a reasonable chance that they will use their energy builder and only fart out little over 2K in damage, so basically...backups deal between 15K and 55K when summoned over the span of 15 seconds...and then there is also the oh so famous issue of a backup just standing there going "hur dur" when summoned....combined with the long CD and short duration, a backup is less a replacement to the players power and more a one-shot booster to it.

if the backups
A: hit every second
B: used non energy builder attacks every time
C: didn't have a long CD
then you would have a point about them replacing player damage...but as it stands, they are basically a one shot damage booster rather than replacer...mostly uses when fighting bosses to speed things up somewhat.

doktormarengo

C'mon guys the backups are definitley OP. And this is from someone with three of them. They are pretty much an automatic win for any boss fight. And let's be honest that's why we use them. I can't get to test anymore - but this change is simply a bug fix that doesn't let devices benefit from the PLAYERS buffs. Which they were never meant to do in the first place. They will still pack quite a bit of a punch and be more than useful in hard fights.​​

notyuu

doktormarengo said:

C'mon guys the backups are definitley OP. And this is from someone with three of them. They are pretty much an automatic win for any boss fight. And let's be honest that's why we use them. I can't get to test anymore - but this change is simply a bug fix that doesn't let devices benefit from the PLAYERS buffs. Which they were never meant to do in the first place. They will still pack quite a bit of a punch and be more than useful in hard fights.​​

if they "still packed quite a punch" they wouldn't be doing less damage than the player...simple as.

morigosa

notyuu said:

if they "still packed quite a punch" they wouldn't be doing less damage than the player...simple as.

Find a player power that can do "15k to 55k" from a single, fast, click, and you would actually have a point.

The value isn't in "how much damage does the backup do per unit of its time". The value is in "how much damage does the backup do per unit of my time that I spent summoning it" - and when measured in those terms, it will still outperform any player power.

wingedkagouti

notyuu said:

if they were never meant to do that much damage in the first place then why do they last 15 seconds with a 30 mins CD?

Because they were likely intended to be a "Hey look, I can call for assistance from this signature hero for a short bit" kinda thing instead of "Hey look, I'm going to be #1 on the OM scoreboard because I clicked a single device". And I still doubt that they were ever intended to eclipse player dps even if looking only at the timespan they were summoned.

Also, if you're really suffering from some degree of bipolar disorder, a depression, or even just frequent mood swings, have a serious talk with your doctor and follow his/her advice. I know that doing so helped me get out of my depression.

cascadence

Yeah, I am definitely echoing with some people that posted before. There shouldn't be any device that should do the insane amount of dps, even if it has an ungodly long cooldown. There shouldn't be a device that works as "woops!! this boss is too hard, time to use my I win button!" or "Hey this OM only gives good rewards to top dps players, better I use that I win button!".

I am aware a lot of people are going to be upset about the change, because they are quite hard to get, but from a design standpoint it helps Cryptic to pump out content without thinking at design phase "Hey! what should we do if they have backup devices?"

That being said, yeah I believe they need a buff post nerf, something among the lines of increasing the duration to 20 secs, and/or have a 20 min cooldown.

notyuu

wingedkagouti said:

notyuu said:

if they were never meant to do that much damage in the first place then why do they last 15 seconds with a 30 mins CD?

Because they were likely intended to be a "Hey look, I can call for assistance from this signature hero for a short bit" kinda thing instead of "Hey look, I'm going to be #1 on the OM scoreboard because I clicked a single device". And I still doubt that they were ever intended to eclipse player dps even if looking only at the timespan they were summoned.

Also, if you're really suffering from some degree of bipolar disorder, a depression, or even just frequent mood swings, have a serious talk with your doctor and follow his/her advice. I know that doing so helped me get out of my depression.

firstly if the device wasn't meant to be so strong..then why the hell were the first versions of it level 60?

secondly, I have done that, it's the reason I can (abit painfully) get around and kinda why I'm still here...it's also nothing to do with this nerf

kamokami

notyuu said:

firstly if the device wasn't meant to be so strong..then why the hell were the first versions of it level 60?

It's likely that the first versions of them were meant to be lvl 60 but still not meant to benefit from player buffs. Either way, they're now a bit more inline with other devices in terms of how useful they are during boss fights. That's the real comparison...not whether they can deal as much damage as your own character.

I'd expect the next game-breaking device fix to involve [Eruption] which grants complete damage immunity.

notyuu

kamokami said:

notyuu said:

firstly if the device wasn't meant to be so strong..then why the hell were the first versions of it level 60?

It's likely that the first versions of them were meant to be lvl 60 but still not meant to benefit from player buffs. Either way, they're now a bit more inline with other devices in terms of how useful they are during boss fights. That's the real comparison...not whether they can deal as much damage as your own character.

I'd expect the next game-breaking device fix to involve [Eruption] which grants complete damage immunity.

it it wasn't meant to make people immune to damage then why the hell is it wirrten in the bloody device description?

when you use the device, it holds you and makes you immune to damage...and does ..no damage...woo, take away the damage immunity and the device is rendered useless, literally...as all it would do it hold the user.

sanguineviper

Backups should never have even existed at all in the state they were released.
Anyone thinking otherwise is insane and should not be listened to.

And this is coming from a min/maxing sh*tbucket that uses Twin Minigun Mojo. (Which also still needs to be fixed since it's been broken for "since the game came out".)