Both Gravitar and F&I have build tests -- if your build isn't up to certain specs, you'll find it difficult. For F&I, you need a reasonably durable tank (a Behemoth is sufficient), a healer able to put out enough hps, some means of tanking Kenina, and enough spammable AoE to keep the various structures suppressed. Notably, you can provide all requirements with 3-4 people, meaning the remainder can use whatever build they want and it doesn't matter. For Gravitar, you'll want someone who can tank Gravitar, some sort of maintenance healing (Sentinel aura/mastery will usually do the job), and then everyone needs to be durable enough to take about two random cascades.
It's a telegraph just like any other telegraph. In fact, before the advent of these lines or fields on the ground or icons to say duck with dungeon boss mods and such, watching the bosses attack animations is exactly what people had to do. It's as much a telegraph as watching the animation of lines on the ground or an icon over there head now.
By strict definition it is a telegraph... in terms of the game's mechanics it isn't.
Moral of the story... block and self heal constantly, us ADs, and keep a self res device with you at all times!(I take all the ones I earn from leveling and store them in my hideoutbank exactly for this reason!)
I don't think we have to argue over if an animation is a telegraph or not. Either way the claim about surviving Grav's FC not taking any skill is wrong.
Did you know that there are a lot of games out there where the animation is the only telegraph given? Somehow the people playing those games aren't drowning in their own tears.
For Gravitar, you'll want someone who can tank Gravitar, some sort of maintenance healing (Sentinel aura/mastery will usually do the job), and then everyone needs to be durable enough to take about two random cascades.
And even that's not so demanding. I've regularly survived Gravi on my squishball 5k/low health toons. Their builds are nowhere near what someone who's "good at building" would make, so it's not even really that big of a build challenge. The only build challenge is having a block replacer, a single heal, and being quick enough on the button to use them after being hit by a force cascade; you don't even have to be blocking before the first FC comes, just the second one.
Did you know that there are a lot of games out there where the animation is the only telegraph given? Somehow the people playing those games aren't drowning in their own tears.
You know honestly at this point? Git gud.
I wonder how they would have handled old classic NES and SNES games like Punch Out Super Punch Out and such since the only telegraph in those games were the animations. Or like Mario and such. Actraiser even. Sheesh, if animations weren't telegraphs then no one would have figured out Punch Out to beat it all this time.
Yes, there are lots of games where the only "tell" is a stance taken or an animation begun. By and large, those games also don't tend to have the opponent concealed by a haze of special effects being thrown at them by the players. (Honestly, I couldn't have testified as to exactly what Gravy looked like before the new costume - I was never able to see her past the flame patches, lightning effects, and darkness surrounding her.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yes, there are lots of games where the only "tell" is a stance taken or an animation begun. By and large, those games also don't tend to have the opponent concealed by a haze of special effects being thrown at them by the players. (Honestly, I couldn't have testified as to exactly what Gravy looked like before the new costume - I was never able to see her past the flame patches, lightning effects, and darkness surrounding her.)
Then why are some of us able to spot her animation based tells? Are we just better than you? Feel free to say so if you have no other explanation.
But by all means, keep aiming at the strawman and denying that you might just not be the core audience for CO. I'll still be here, grinning at your sad reliance on ad-hominem for want of any valid defense other than "I want to ruin the game with nonsense that doesn't belong in it and I'm always right!"
The irony here is stinging my nose hairs.
I'm starting to think you are actually just trolling... I mean... that was really blatant.
I for sure agree with the OP here. The vast majority of players don't get to experience fighting the monsters because they can be soloed. So someone randomly wandered into a big dinosaur, killed it, and now it won't show up for anyone for another day? That's not great.
Requiring teams to beat them because they'll be that hard will allow more people to get in on the fight.
I for sure agree with the OP here. The vast majority of players don't get to experience fighting the monsters because they can be soloed. So someone randomly wandered into a big dinosaur, killed it, and now it won't show up for anyone for another day? That's not great.
Requiring teams to beat them because they'll be that hard will allow more people to get in on the fight.
Or all more people to ignore them. Is there going to be an increased reward for seeking out and fighting these things? Cause I would have no interest whether they took 1 full team or 2. I really couldn't care less if they spawned 5 per zone. Unless there's a compelling reason to fight them I don't think many will. And to me that would be a waste of developer resources.
If they are going to do it they should do it right.
Roaming Giant Monsters in City of Heroes pretty much had the same problem in that game.
Or all more people to ignore them. Is there going to be an increased reward for seeking out and fighting these things? Cause I would have no interest whether they took 1 full team or 2. I really couldn't care less if they spawned 5 per zone. Unless there's a compelling reason to fight them I don't think many will. And to me that would be a waste of developer resources.
If they are going to do it they should do it right.
Roaming Giant Monsters in City of Heroes pretty much had the same problem in that game.
Agreed that they'll need proper rewards as well for being difficult to kill.
Big attacks = ground sign, warning on health bar.. or in the very least, corny universal callout with speech bubble .
All her big attacks have that. Your mistake is thinking that her force cascades are a big attack.
Considering the damned things can 1-2 shot most anything outside a tank... I think that's either semantics, or just further overtuned bad design at play if you want to go that angle. Either needs a real tell, or needs the random-target, ignore aggro nonsense gutted out.
Or all more people to ignore them. Is there going to be an increased reward for seeking out and fighting these things? Cause I would have no interest whether they took 1 full team or 2. I really couldn't care less if they spawned 5 per zone. Unless there's a compelling reason to fight them I don't think many will. And to me that would be a waste of developer resources.
If they are going to do it they should do it right.
Roaming Giant Monsters in City of Heroes pretty much had the same problem in that game.
I think they should remove all rewards from all content. That'd be interesting wouldn't it? Would people stop doing anything at all? Or would they start only doing things for the sheer enjoyment? I think it would do people some good to experience my playstyle, where you stop being lead around on a leash by the 'rewards'
Considering the damned things can 1-2 shot most anything outside a tank...
Urr... hardly. Sure, something like an Inferno is likely to have a tough time in Gravitar, but it doesn't take 'tank' design to not be two-shotted by her random damage.
Or all more people to ignore them. Is there going to be an increased reward for seeking out and fighting these things? Cause I would have no interest whether they took 1 full team or 2. I really couldn't care less if they spawned 5 per zone. Unless there's a compelling reason to fight them I don't think many will. And to me that would be a waste of developer resources.
If they are going to do it they should do it right.
Roaming Giant Monsters in City of Heroes pretty much had the same problem in that game.
I think they should remove all rewards from all content. That'd be interesting wouldn't it? Would people stop doing anything at all? Or would they start only doing things for the sheer enjoyment? I think it would do people some good to experience my playstyle, where you stop being lead around on a leash by the 'rewards'
Actually that might be interesting.
Whether CO would actually exist for very long in that state is another discussion.
I do lots of stuff in CO just for the fun of it... I mean really that is the only reason to run most lairs... or hunt for cosmics, or do any alerts apart from smash and dailies at lvl 40... or explore the world and do all the missions instead of running grabs all day to level characters...
I certainly don't stop to fight the Mega Destroid every time I notice it is up because I am expecting any kind of reward for doing it
I do lots of stuff in CO just for the fun of it... I mean really that is the only reason to run most lairs... or hunt for cosmics, or do any alerts apart from smash and dailies at lvl 40... or explore the world and do all the missions instead of running grabs all day to level characters...
I certainly don't stop to fight the Mega Destroid every time I notice it is up because I am expecting any kind of reward for doing it
I play the game for the fun, but since I know, on average, I can't get many people to do lairs or anything unless they can get a reward involved I don't really bother.
Whether CO would actually exist for very long in that state is another discussion.
Now that's an interesting thing to say, because it implies that people don't play CO because they like playing CO, but because they like getting rewards. Even more interesting when you consider that all rewards gained are only useful in any way in CO itself.
I may have to reconsider my thoughts on gamers being rats. I mean, I know I'm not one, but there's a reason they added leveling mechanics to first person shooters. Episode 106 of ST:TNG was sure on to something
There is something punishing about Gravitar (not sure which bug thread this goes in) -- she's got some pretty massive animation vs effect syncing problems. It's common to see a bubble, run out of the bubble, see the bubble detonate (with your toon clearly not inside), and then 2-3 seconds later get hit by a bunch of damage. There are other places in the game where the game decides on its valid targets somewhat before the actual attack animation, but Gravitar is a quite extreme case.
Now that's an interesting thing to say, because it implies that people don't play CO because they like playing CO, but because they like getting rewards. Even more interesting when you consider that all rewards gained are only useful in any way in CO itself.
Holy false dichotomies, Batman!
I enjoy playing the game because I like superhero dress up dolls, I like the action/controls/style, and I like rewards.
The sum total of the things I like is why I play. Without rewards, I might like the other things, but maybe it wouldn't be enough.
Now that's an interesting thing to say, because it implies that people don't play CO because they like playing CO, but because they like getting rewards. Even more interesting when you consider that all rewards gained are only useful in any way in CO itself.
Holy false dichotomies, Batman!
I enjoy playing the game because I like superhero dress up dolls, I like the action/controls/style, and I like rewards.
The sum total of the things I like is why I play. Without rewards, I might like the other things, but maybe it wouldn't be enough.
I never even commented on the reasons why you enjoy the game, so I don't really understand the "false dichotomies" comment. As can plainly be seen, my comment was an observation on darqaura2's comment. It had nothing to do with you, or any actual person. If you read my comment, the one that darqaura2 responded to, you would see that I actually believe that with rewards removed people would still find enjoyment in the game, perhaps even more. So, while it seems like your comment is an attempt to disagree with me... it really isn't.
There is something punishing about Gravitar (not sure which bug thread this goes in) -- she's got some pretty massive animation vs effect syncing problems. It's common to see a bubble, run out of the bubble, see the bubble detonate (with your toon clearly not inside), and then 2-3 seconds later get hit by a bunch of damage. There are other places in the game where the game decides on its valid targets somewhat before the actual attack animation, but Gravitar is a quite extreme case.
The problem with the bubbles is not that the game decides on targets at a wrong time, but there is a delays in updating changes of positioning. You can see that easy with when you are targeted with a stun bubble. If you start moving when the stun bubble is used on you the game already "knows" you are moving, and even with a slow in combat TP like flight or no TP at all you can safely evade the orange followup bubble. The orange bubble will detonate only a fraction of a second after you fly or walk out of it, but you will not be hit. Doing that with a ground based TP is not good for the rest of the team, but for flight it works well.
The odd thing is that this doesn't count for all bubbles, the stun bubble will (almost) never stun you if you are already outside when it detonates. Maybe the stun is decided clientside, and the damage serverside.
Your false dichotomy, Spinny (and you know this as well as I do, you're just trying to yank chains, but it grows tiresome), lies in the statement that if you actually want to have some kind of reward for anything, you aren't really interested in the game. It's quite possible, you know, to enjoy the superhero action, to have great fun just speeding down the street leaving a glowing trail in your wake, and to still find content disappointing if all you can say is that you beat Villain X just like everybody else. It's not "all for the game" or "only in it for the goodies".
In the PnP, you get Character Points, which you can put toward improving your character (stronger powers, new powers, buying off a Disadvantage, that sort of thing). In an MMO, the rewards are cash and loot, because XP doesn't work like Character Points. And if there's no reward other than "the sheer fun of playing," that ol' limbic system just isn't getting tickled. (And if you can get a limbic boost from pointless grinding, you're probably a big hit at the office, because everyone else can dump their pointless busywork on you!)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Your false dichotomy, Spinny (and you know this as well as I do, you're just trying to yank chains, but it grows tiresome), lies in the statement that if you actually want to have some kind of reward for anything, you aren't really interested in the game.
As can plainly be seen, my comment was an observation on darqaura2's comment, it does not reflect my personal beliefs, but rather what his comment appears to imply.
What's funny is, this was already explained in the comment you're responding to, and is further reinforced by my comments before that.
Looks like you're yanking your own chain yet again. Assumptions are a ***** aren't they?
Comments
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Yea there is, they all have an animation before their attack when they are attacking.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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It's a telegraph just like any other telegraph. In fact, before the advent of these lines or fields on the ground or icons to say duck with dungeon boss mods and such, watching the bosses attack animations is exactly what people had to do. It's as much a telegraph as watching the animation of lines on the ground or an icon over there head now.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Moral of the story... block and self heal constantly, us ADs, and keep a self res device with you at all times!(I take all the ones I earn from leveling and store them in my hideoutbank exactly for this reason!)
You know honestly at this point? Git gud.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I wonder how they would have handled old classic NES and SNES games like Punch Out Super Punch Out and such since the only telegraph in those games were the animations. Or like Mario and such. Actraiser even. Sheesh, if animations weren't telegraphs then no one would have figured out Punch Out to beat it all this time.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm starting to think you are actually just trolling... I mean... that was really blatant.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Requiring teams to beat them because they'll be that hard will allow more people to get in on the fight.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Cause I would have no interest whether they took 1 full team or 2. I really couldn't care less if they spawned 5 per zone. Unless there's a compelling reason to fight them I don't think many will. And to me that would be a waste of developer resources.
If they are going to do it they should do it right.
Roaming Giant Monsters in City of Heroes pretty much had the same problem in that game.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑･ิᴗ･ิ)۶٩(･ิᴗ･ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It's generally why I don't get in much discussion about it. The exaggerations tend to get obnoxious, not to mention the ignoring of basic facts.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Whether CO would actually exist for very long in that state is another discussion.
I certainly don't stop to fight the Mega Destroid every time I notice it is up because I am expecting any kind of reward for doing it
I play the game for the fun, but since I know, on average, I can't get many people to do lairs or anything unless they can get a reward involved I don't really bother.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I may have to reconsider my thoughts on gamers being rats. I mean, I know I'm not one, but there's a reason they added leveling mechanics to first person shooters. Episode 106 of ST:TNG was sure on to something
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
I enjoy playing the game because I like superhero dress up dolls, I like the action/controls/style, and I like rewards.
The sum total of the things I like is why I play. Without rewards, I might like the other things, but maybe it wouldn't be enough.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
http://forum.arcgames.com/championsonline/discussion/1194284/champions-online-on-alert-issues#latest
The problem with the bubbles is not that the game decides on targets at a wrong time, but there is a delays in updating changes of positioning.
You can see that easy with when you are targeted with a stun bubble. If you start moving when the stun bubble is used on you the game already "knows" you are moving, and even with a slow in combat TP like flight or no TP at all you can safely evade the orange followup bubble. The orange bubble will detonate only a fraction of a second after you fly or walk out of it, but you will not be hit.
Doing that with a ground based TP is not good for the rest of the team, but for flight it works well.
The odd thing is that this doesn't count for all bubbles, the stun bubble will (almost) never stun you if you are already outside when it detonates. Maybe the stun is decided clientside, and the damage serverside.
In the PnP, you get Character Points, which you can put toward improving your character (stronger powers, new powers, buying off a Disadvantage, that sort of thing). In an MMO, the rewards are cash and loot, because XP doesn't work like Character Points. And if there's no reward other than "the sheer fun of playing," that ol' limbic system just isn't getting tickled. (And if you can get a limbic boost from pointless grinding, you're probably a big hit at the office, because everyone else can dump their pointless busywork on you!)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
What's funny is, this was already explained in the comment you're responding to, and is further reinforced by my comments before that.
Looks like you're yanking your own chain yet again. Assumptions are a ***** aren't they?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.