Please, please, please do not release Onslaught in its current state. It is so far from ready, and will be an overall negative for the game.
Please do another PTS release with significant changes.
Don't worry, it will not be releases until the 17th. So we still got a week.
Do you have proof of that?
In a thread upforum, GrandNagus linked this email. It was then confirmed that two of the devs in the Livestream had confirmed 9/17 as the launch date.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Let's keep the drama out of this thread, it has no place in here.
Given that the release date has been set I hope they are able to make significant changes. As I mentioned in another thread the gear is overpriced and kind of boring as secondaries they aren't worth grinding for. (Aside from the one piece with a proc, but I'll take pure stats over something that relies on rng any time)
I like the open world aspect. When I play a new game and see big a-- monsters roaming around, that's pretty cool. If exploiting is a concern, have a daily / weekly cap on tokens that can be earned. I think it would be easier to get people to join in on villain hunting in the open world than it would be to que for this. How often do you see people begging for rampage participation?
In the open world, no one has to wait and even if a few people trickled in, that's better than doing nothing waiting for a que that may never pop.
I like the open world aspect. When I play a new game and see big a-- monsters roaming around, that's pretty cool. If exploiting is a concern.
While I think it is exploitable, I'm actually less worried about that than about grossly mismatched fight, such as we saw on the livestream. The #1 requirement for this content to be a success is for it to be fun.
Exploiting is a minimal concern, as rewards are negligible. The possibility of player/villains griefing areas of the game is a real one, but the Onslaught Villains don't feel invincible on PTS so it should balance out. Hopefully everyone will approach this in a spirit of, y'know, enjoying yourself rather than the need to prove that everything is broken, but you can't always tell...
For all intents and purposes, these are boss vs player fights, with the only difference being these bosses are controlled by players.
As others have mentioned, boss characters must have mobility restrictions. Boss characters shouldn't be able to kite players, to hide behind geometry, and to consistently thwart all melee character damage by continually moving out of reach.
For this system to work:
Supervillains must have their travel powers disabled when they enter combat.
Supervillains must not disable player travel powers.
Supervillains must be /followable so melee characters aren't frustrated.
If the boss's powers aren't enough to defeat players, then those powers need to be adjusted. Kiting is not a power.
Exploiting is a minimal concern, as rewards are negligible. The possibility of player/villains griefing areas of the game is a real one, but the Onslaught Villains don't feel invincible on PTS so it should balance out. Hopefully everyone will approach this in a spirit of, y'know, enjoying yourself rather than the need to prove that everything is broken, but you can't always tell...
The issue is (if it doesnt happen right away) is that the 'level 40 Mighty Heroes' who come to protect the newbies....cant keep that up forever, when they get their tokens, or get bored or stop...what then. We cant just allow Newbie killing to persist like that.
It would be a sick injustice to let this go through onto live.
I think the primary problems with range versus melee for Onslaught villains are overarching issues with range and melee for the game as a whole that might be outside the scope of the update. I will say that I don't see stopping player travel powers as a problem since there are already enemies with Nailed to the Ground on some attacks. I would argue that some of these attacks would probably be more threatening to ranged players as cones while spheres are probably more of a threat to melee.
As far as farming the same few squishies, I suggest adding some perks for defeating X number of different players within the 10 minute time limit. It would encourage attempting to defat all heroes than just a few.
"Interesting builds are born from limitations not by letting players put everything into one build."
BUG: Player can be sprayed with Draysha Gun and keep the buff after they have transformed into Onslaught villain. Buff wears off after normal time. This is not hugely exploitative since villains need to build up to the stronger powers, but the damage difference is noticeable. You can have about a full minute of stronger powers doing roughly 150% of their normal damage, or Grond can start next to an Onslaught target, take it out quickly and usually build enough fury for his stronger attacks after taking damage from the onslaught target.
Bug: Any power with a pbAoE(firey form, Lead Tempest) or AoE power with a maintain (Shadow's Embrace, Conflagaration) will cause players to enter into combat with Villains if the villain is close enough or walks into the power's AoE during that maintain. This is highly exploitable as it is allowing villains to draw players into combat, and easily killing them for tokens.
Players need to be given a prompt, like when entering duels, that allows them decline or accept entering combat with a villains. If they decline, players should not be able to receive this prompt again for a set amount of time. This will discourage villains from pestering others into combat and will also prevent players from damaging villains without ever actually being tagged with "Battling Supervillain!".
BUG: For some powers, damage is not considered to originate from the player - for example Strafing Run. These powers will damage Onslaught villains but not tag players as being in combat with an onslaught villain. This is highly exploitable as a player can use a power like Strafing run or proximity mines and damage the villain without the villain being able to attack back.
BUG: Similar to the bug above, some devices with the ability to summon pets will attack the onslaught villains without entering the player into combat. This is highly exploitable when using backup! Champions devices. Using a Backup! device while targeting a villain will damage that villain, but the player will not be tagged with "Battling Supervillain!".
BUG: Eruption device's immunity granting ability will carry over when becoming a villain if it is use right before becoming a villain. Immunity last for normal amount of time.
Balance Concern: Crippling challenge should force villains to target the player who applies crippling challenge, similar to the forced aggro that Raksasha's pet apply. Otherwise, villains tend to simply attack the players with the smallest health bars and tanking plays no role.
Because of the enormous disparity of damage an onslaught villain can do to players with defensive builds compared to offensive or support builds, it is imperative that a system of forcing a villain's targeting to be changed to another player who either utilizes an advantage or hits an Aggro threshold be in place. This will partially alleviate the biased targeting of players who have offensive or support builds and small max health numbers.
If i was a new player getting bashed in by Onslaughts on the first corner, id think the quality of this game was terribly low, and take my money elsewhere.
You cannot take this for granted, it WILL effect them. "Oh it wont be that bad" Right...so the logic is: "just wait and see then". < is that really wise?
Balance Concern: Crippling challenge should force villains to target the player who applies crippling challenge, similar to the forced aggro that Raksasha's pet apply. Otherwise, villains tend to simply attack the players with the smallest health bars and tanking plays no role.
Because of the enormous disparity of damage an onslaught villain can do to players, it is imperative that a system of forcing a villain's targeting to be changed to another player who either utilizes an advantage or hits an Aggro threshold be in place. This is alleviate the biased targeting of players who have offensive passives and small max health numbers.
Absolutely not. This would create a balance problem, as someone has already pointed out, because we can assume that villains would always be forced to attack nigh unkillable players, meaning their damage would have to be tuned up high enough to have a reasonable chance of killing these players in a reasonable amount of time, which means that once all the players with crippling challenge have been defeated all other players will now be subjected to a string of one-shots.
Also, once you're forcing the onslaught villain to target someone other than who they want to, you've essentially reduced the player to an employee doing the work of an AI. They just spam powers when they come off cooldown, and don't even bother using their targeting controls since their targeting will be determined by the players with crippling challenge anyway. At this point, you might as well just have the player spawn an AI-controlled boss and wait and see if it manages to kill any players.
Balance Concern: Crippling challenge should force villains to target the player who applies crippling challenge, similar to the forced aggro that Raksasha's pet apply. Otherwise, villains tend to simply attack the players with the smallest health bars and tanking plays no role.
Because of the enormous disparity of damage an onslaught villain can do to players, it is imperative that a system of forcing a villain's targeting to be changed to another player who either utilizes an advantage or hits an Aggro threshold be in place. This is alleviate the biased targeting of players who have offensive passives and small max health numbers.
Absolutely not. This would create a balance problem, as someone has already pointed out, because we can assume that villains would always be forced to attack nigh unkillable players, meaning their damage would have to be tuned up high enough to have a reasonable chance of killing these players in a reasonable amount of time, which means that once all the players with crippling challenge have been defeated all other players will now be subjected to a string of one-shots.
Also, once you're forcing the onslaught villain to target someone other than who they want to, you've essentially reduced the player to an employee doing the work of an AI. They just spam powers when they come off cooldown, and don't even bother using their targeting controls since their targeting will be determined by the players with crippling challenge anyway. At this point, you might as well just have the player spawn an AI-controlled boss and wait and see if it manages to kill any players.
Agreed, crippling challenge should not force a villian to target the player for the above reasons.
Balance Concern: Crippling challenge should force villains to target the player who applies crippling challenge, similar to the forced aggro that Raksasha's pet apply. Otherwise, villains tend to simply attack the players with the smallest health bars and tanking plays no role.
Because of the enormous disparity of damage an onslaught villain can do to players, it is imperative that a system of forcing a villain's targeting to be changed to another player who either utilizes an advantage or hits an Aggro threshold be in place. This is alleviate the biased targeting of players who have offensive passives and small max health numbers.
Absolutely not. This would create a balance problem, as someone has already pointed out, because we can assume that villains would always be forced to attack nigh unkillable players, meaning their damage would have to be tuned up high enough to have a reasonable chance of killing these players in a reasonable amount of time, which means that once all the players with crippling challenge have been defeated all other players will now be subjected to a string of one-shots.
Also, once you're forcing the onslaught villain to target someone other than who they want to, you've essentially reduced the player to an employee doing the work of an AI. They just spam powers when they come off cooldown, and don't even bother using their targeting controls since their targeting will be determined by the players with crippling challenge anyway. At this point, you might as well just have the player spawn an AI-controlled boss and wait and see if it manages to kill any players.
Well, just like Raksasha pet's, you won't be forced into continuously attacking whoever applied crippling challenge. After having your targeting switched over, you can re-select your previous target immediately. This is just to deter villains from finding the weakest player and focusing on them solely. You also would not need to increase the damage the villains were doing at all - the point isn't to make them "LOCK ON" to tank players, but to distract them for the amount of time it takes to find a weak target again. And, this isn't entirely unfair as all three villains will still have AoE attacks - but the single target attacks done by villains will now be (at least momentarily) focused on someone who is built to handle them.
So, I think maybe you might be confusing my suggestion of forced target switching with a suggestion to force villains to stay locked onto a target. To clarify:
If a player either applies Crippling Challenge or reaches a threshold of Threat points, force the target to that player.
There should then be a cool down (CC already has a cool down on being reapplied) that prevents the villain can having their target forcibly switched.
Almost Immediately after the target is switched, the villain is able to select any target via tabbing or clicking.
After the cool down applied to the villain (in bullet 2) a player may again reach a Threat threshold or use CC to force villain's targeting back to them.
The idea isn't to force a player to only attack one hero, but to allow heroes who see another character about to be defeated pull the aggro momentarily.
One of my fondest memories of CO comes from my earliest days playing it, when Grond dropped in on my head in the Desert. Sure, I died instantly - but I died awesomely.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
One of my fondest memories of CO comes from my earliest days playing it, when Grond dropped in on my head in the Desert. Sure, I died instantly - but I died awesomely.
One of my fondest memories of CO comes from my earliest days playing it, when Grond dropped in on my head in the Desert. Sure, I died instantly - but I died awesomely.
That's the difference between an area designed for him to drop in on and an area where players are just starting that the original devs knew dropping big bads in on was a terrible idea.
Its game design common sense to not ambush players that just started playing.
As long as the ability to grief players via jumping into their aoe attacks is fixed, everything is fine. If a player attacks a villain on purpose and gets stomped, they'll be okay. They won't do it again until they feel powerful enough to try again, and the majority of new players are most likely going to avoid big green monsters who are taking down level 40 players in the first place.
Of course, the AoE griefing needs to be fixed, and it most likely will be. They already have put in efforts to stop griefing so you know it matters to them.
As long as the ability to grief players via jumping into their aoe attacks is fixed, everything is fine.
That will probably fix a lot of bugs, actually, because the way to do that is to eliminate the "you gain fighting supervillains status by attacking a supervillain", and replace it with some specific action you can take.
OK has anyone tried CIRCLES. we know they stay usable if you cast them, then get into a vehicle.
can you cast one and then become a villain?
damage, energy,
do villains have a shield or heal yet?
I try to avoid the desert because i have the same luck(bad) with Grond landing on me, as I do with the giant dinosaur turning up when I'm trying to do missions. Run around the corner of the path and suddenly wish I had teleport.
One of my fondest memories of CO comes from my earliest days playing it, when Grond dropped in on my head in the Desert. Sure, I died instantly - but I died awesomely.
Big Concerns that NEED to be addressed on test: 1. Newbie trolling by Spawnkilling. 2. Tank effectiveness at forcing aggro (Taunting to force Onslaught to target them) 3. Poorly littered Turrets which either Kill an Onslaught near instantly without a warning that the turret is there, and the poor placement of the turrets still allows Onslaughts to placethemselves right on a spawn point. 4. Onslaughts being free-roam in the world allows players, or the Onslaught to create unfair play with Out-Of-Combat Regeneration bonuses, and power-cancelling because of hiding behind a huge selection of Objects, gaps or corridors. Kiting in short. 5. Newbies with Pestilence/Fireform/Seraphim(+Balance) can be automatically flagged for Open PvP, without wanting to be, due to their PBAoE. This once again, creates a situation where they keep being killed at spawn, until they are forced to quit the game, and try to see if they can leave the start of the game later. 7. Permanent Stealth still being an issue. 8. Pre-used Buff Devices like Draysha Gas Pistol or Necrull's Elixir are carrying over to Onslaught when they shouldnt. 9. Snares/Roots/TP removes arent strong enough to keep Onslaughts in melee range for melee characters to work. 10. Token gains are only earned the fastest, by not properly playing Onslaught, getting a bunch of people organised, to just suicide on purpose for mass token-generation. Putting a 60 second cooldown on how often people can gain tokens from each target, does NOTHING to stop that.
Here's a slight concern I feel needs to be brought up.
Gravitar has range over these turrets, meaning if they happen to be left alone the turret could be destroyed. This is bad because Gravitar could potentially destroy the turrets meant to protect respawn locations and leave an opening for other villains to spawncamp.
I don't mind Gravitar having these attacks being able to hit at such long distances, but I believe the turrets should be given that Ultimate Regeneration buff the Powerhouse Regen Dummies have so Gravitar Villains can't destroy them.
--
Trivia: Destroying a Hermes Heavy Turret at Level 40 gives "[9:51] [Reward] You received 47,584 Resources."
--
The new Onslaught Secondaries are underperforming due to their lack of Superstat Bonuses. I don't think they should grant a massive Primary Boost like Vigilante's, but adding a more balanced Superstat Boost to the items like the Set Items in the Questionite Store (Armadillo's, Cyber Augmented, Samurai's) could be exactly what these new equips need to be effective. Perhaps add more equipment that allows players to decide which kind of boost to their Superstats they would like. (Primary Only, Secondaries Only, or Balanced)
Big Concerns that NEED to be addressed on test: 1. Newbie trolling by Spawnkilling. 2. Tank effectiveness at forcing aggro (Taunting to force Onslaught to target them) 3. Poorly littered Turrets which either Kill an Onslaught near instantly without a warning that the turret is there, and the poor placement of the turrets still allows Onslaughts to placethemselves right on a spawn point. 4. Onslaughts being free-roam in the world allows players, or the Onslaught to create unfair play with Out-Of-Combat Regeneration bonuses, and power-cancelling because of hiding behind a huge selection of Objects, gaps or corridors. Kiting in short. 5. Newbies with Pestilence/Fireform/Seraphim(+Balance) can be automatically flagged for Open PvP, without wanting to be, due to their PBAoE. This once again, creates a situation where they keep being killed at spawn, until they are forced to quit the game, and try to see if they can leave the start of the game later. 7. Permanent Stealth still being an issue. 8. Pre-used Buff Devices like Draysha Gas Pistol or Necrull's Elixir are carrying over to Onslaught when they shouldnt. 9. Snares/Roots/TP removes arent strong enough to keep Onslaughts in melee range for melee characters to work. 10. Token gains are only earned the fastest, by not properly playing Onslaught, getting a bunch of people organised, to just suicide on purpose for mass token-generation. Putting a 60 second cooldown on how often people can gain tokens from each target, does NOTHING to stop that.
1. Easy enough to fix with some of the advice given earlier in the thread. So that does need to be fixed. 2. No, players should never be forced into attacking a certain target ever. This is pvp, with a twist, not pve. 3. Yeah, better placement of the turrets can help. Along with a warning. 4. Welcome to pvp. Plus, people are always complaining about the game being to easy and the ai being dumb, well, this is the result of them upgrading the system to all players to play the villain. Now you guys complaining that its to hard? 5. This can be solved with number 1 easily enough. 7. Oh yeah, this needs fixing big time. 8. Some do, some don't. But its not only buff devices that do that, controllable pets also remain summoned when you enter onslaught form. 9. Yes, this is an issue that needs fixing. 10. Frankly, with the prices as high as they are, we need all the tokens we can get. Lets assume the onslaught does manage to complete the quest given. That's only 315 tokens. Given that the prices are things are 5k+, this will take a while to complete. And frankly, with how new the event will be I do not see an onslaught villain staying up long enough to be able to farm lots of tokens. People will be swarming them, healers will be there, the onlsaughts will be lucky to kill enough of them to complete their objective. And than there is the problem of those indestructible heroes. So, this is not an actual problem.
The easy way to block spawnkilling is to just remove "fighting supervillains" on defeat. As for turrets, I'd really prefer that the means of preventing villains from being in obnoxious locations wasn't damage to start with; make them 'force field generators' and have a giant irresistible repel.
2. No, players should never be forced into attacking a certain target ever. This is pvp, with a twist, not pve..
Twisted enough so that Onslaught mechanics are completely different from conventional CO pvp mechanics. That makes most arguments over gameplay mechanics that are based on Onslaught being pvp meaningless.
I don't see the huge problem with players being forced (or strongly encouraged) to attack certain players over others. Something like that is needed so the villains are a threat to even tanky builds, but will not easily pick of the more squishy builds all the time.
The live stream didn't show this, since for one there were a lot more players per villains than is intended, secondly the devs were not playing like they were trying to get tokens at all, and thirdly because of stealth.
Big Concerns that NEED to be addressed on test: 1. Newbie trolling by Spawnkilling. 2. Tank effectiveness at forcing aggro (Taunting to force Onslaught to target them) 3. Poorly littered Turrets which either Kill an Onslaught near instantly without a warning that the turret is there, and the poor placement of the turrets still allows Onslaughts to placethemselves right on a spawn point. 4. Onslaughts being free-roam in the world allows players, or the Onslaught to create unfair play with Out-Of-Combat Regeneration bonuses, and power-cancelling because of hiding behind a huge selection of Objects, gaps or corridors. Kiting in short. 5. Newbies with Pestilence/Fireform/Seraphim(+Balance) can be automatically flagged for Open PvP, without wanting to be, due to their PBAoE. This once again, creates a situation where they keep being killed at spawn, until they are forced to quit the game, and try to see if they can leave the start of the game later. 7. Permanent Stealth still being an issue. 8. Pre-used Buff Devices like Draysha Gas Pistol or Necrull's Elixir are carrying over to Onslaught when they shouldnt. 9. Snares/Roots/TP removes arent strong enough to keep Onslaughts in melee range for melee characters to work. 10. Token gains are only earned the fastest, by not properly playing Onslaught, getting a bunch of people organised, to just suicide on purpose for mass token-generation. Putting a 60 second cooldown on how often people can gain tokens from each target, does NOTHING to stop that.
I agree with some but not all of your points.
The proper fix is to remove the "fighting supervillains" debuff upon defeat. Spawnkilling becomes impossible.
Unless forced aggro includes a -100% defense debuff and disabling block on the would-be tank, that just means no onslaught villain will ever get a kill.
Turrets should be replaced with something non-damaging. We have plenty of 'force fields' from Rampages already, why not just use one of those?
The Fighting Supervillains debuff should turn off out of combat regeneration. Kiting, however, is a tactic.
The proper fix is that you don't gain "fighting supervillains" by attacking, you gain it by a specific deliberate action such as a menu option or device activation.
Perma-stealth is problematic, but Onslaught villains have a fair number of non-targeted abilities and probably should have more.
Buggy but probably not that big a deal.
It's tough to solve this, because you don't want villains completely locked down.
It doesn't do nothing, it just makes it somewhat more labor intensive. Easiest fix is to just limit the rate at which tokens can be gained (say, the limit is 25, +5/minute; means you can't complete the mission in less than 5 minutes).
Kiting is a tactic used to keep enemies at range yes, but when the smallest of objects are being used in a way which infinitely cancels out the use of the power an Onslaught is trying to use, it because very easily abusive.
Example: -Grond wants to throw a big Boulder at you -You hide behind a trashcan -Gronds power cancels
Its silly, discluding that a big boulder would obviously flatten a trashcan, it hinders fair gameplay. Players can too easily pop out, use an instantcast power like Strafing Run, and just go hiding again, incapable of being hurt, and gaining Out-Of-Combat regen back to Full Health.
People can sometimes be seen abusing these mechanics when in Gravitar games, theres a Tree that you can stand behind, to gain immunity from all attacks.
I like the open world aspect. When I play a new game and see big a-- monsters roaming around, that's pretty cool. If exploiting is a concern, have a daily / weekly cap on tokens that can be earned. I think it would be easier to get people to join in on villain hunting in the open world than it would be to que for this. How often do you see people begging for rampage participation?
In the open world, no one has to wait and even if a few people trickled in, that's better than doing nothing waiting for a que that may never pop.
I agree.
I like the open world aspect. If I were a new player and saw a group of superheroes fighting a HUGE Grond, my first thought would be cool. Not to freak out and run away. ----
Suggestion:
The "Battling Supervillains" buff should disappear on player defeat. Requiring a player to enter combat with a villain again in order to be targetable. That solves a few issues and will discourage. farming of weaker players.
Kiting is a tactic used to keep enemies at range yes, but when the smallest of objects are being used in a way which infinitely cancels out the use of the power an Onslaught is trying to use, it because very easily abusive.
It's a combination of fairly slow charge/animation on most onslaught powers and some game bugs, but I don't think your suggestion is the right way to fix it.
Personally, I think the easiest fix is to just give Onslaught critters a stacking buff that increases as they take damage, and decreases when they defeat people; set the buff large enough and eventually the kiter will make a mistake and get pasted.
Another problem with the Onslaught Sniper gear in it's current form. Since it it piercing damage, it works much better for builds that focus on physical damage.
Kiting is a tactic used to keep enemies at range yes, but when the smallest of objects are being used in a way which infinitely cancels out the use of the power an Onslaught is trying to use, it because very easily abusive.
Example: -Grond wants to throw a big Boulder at you -You hide behind a trashcan -Gronds power cancels
Its silly, discluding that a big boulder would obviously flatten a trashcan, it hinders fair gameplay. Players can too easily pop out, use an instantcast power like Strafing Run, and just go hiding again, incapable of being hurt, and gaining Out-Of-Combat regen back to Full Health.
People can sometimes be seen abusing these mechanics when in Gravitar games, theres a Tree that you can stand behind, to gain immunity from all attacks.
To be fair it works both ways, put a light pole between you and Grond and you'll encounter Line of sight issues. (This works for Mega D's as well) Though the onslaught villains don't gain any kind of regen. Though it probably would help if they could also heal while out of combat.
Rift has open world bosses that can wipe raids. My favorite was the earth titan in Stonefield. He basically does a shockwave attack. Anyone in it gets killed in a few seconds. No target cap. It was awesome. They added more bosses that could slaughter whole raids if people weren't careful. Even in the low level zones. Doesn't seem to be hurting participation in starter zone rift events.
Just because someone is a new player doesn't mean they have a terminal case of stupidity. If a players see a villain with a big a-- sign above their heads, do you think they're going to go up and give that person a hug to trigger those pbaoe aura effects? And it also assumes no one is going after villains ever. Don't villains have a giant beam of light advertising their location to everyone? How long are these trolly villains going to be alone to harass new players? It also assumes that no one in westside has a decked out 40 they can switch to or has a guild with people they can call on for aid. Or knows how to type in zone.
Spamming 100ft ranged powers with crip c to auto taunt villains every 10 seconds sounds pretty boring. Or irritating if you're playing the villain.
Is there any reason why you have to build a villain up? They don't exactly seem dangerous, so why not just let them have all of their powers from the start?
Another problem with the Onslaught Sniper gear in it's current form. Since it it piercing damage, it works much better for builds that focus on physical damage.
That is a problem, it needs to be damage that is not specific.
Kiting is a tactic used to keep enemies at range yes, but when the smallest of objects are being used in a way which infinitely cancels out the use of the power an Onslaught is trying to use, it because very easily abusive.
Example:
-Grond wants to throw a big Boulder at you
-You hide behind a trashcan
-Gronds power cancels
Its silly, discluding that a big boulder would obviously flatten a trashcan, it hinders fair gameplay. Players can too easily pop out, use an instantcast power like Strafing Run, and just go hiding again, incapable of being hurt, and gaining Out-Of-Combat regen back to Full Health.
People can sometimes be seen abusing these mechanics when in Gravitar games, theres a Tree that you can stand behind, to gain immunity from all attacks.
THIS. This has always annoyed me ingame. Standing behind a skinny signpost, blocks line of sight.
as for New people deliberately setting off Attack mode. I'm more worried about a villain deliberately getting in the way to set off the attack mode. I pointed this out in the first thread. All they have to do is just keep close and wait for an accident.
I know im not the only one having Line-Of-Sight issues where people who use the most absurdly weak objects cleverly, cannot be attacked at all.
Often the result of a "Nuke" type power, being blocked by a "Plastic chair" seems a tad bit...wrong. Disagreeing with that would kinda make me worry about you..
Another example: -Player goes to use Gravity Driver to hit a large group, 10 Enemies in a large area. -Main target steps behind a tree before the charge bar is filled. -The entire AoE power is cancelled.
Makes no sense. And it's being abused already, were not even on live yet.
I know im not the only one having Line-Of-Sight issues where people who use the most absurdly weak objects cleverly, cannot be attacked at all.
Often the result of a "Nuke" type power, being blocked by a "Plastic chair" seems a tad bit...wrong. Disagreeing with that would kinda make me worry about you..
Another example: -Player goes to use Gravity Driver to hit a large group, 10 Enemies in a large area. -Main target steps behind a tree before the charge bar is filled. -The entire AoE power is cancelled.
Makes no sense. And it's being abused already, were not even on live yet.
Yet, to fix this issue would require a major rewriting of the game. It would not be a simple fix.
'stoo bad the game doesn't just use hit and attack boxes like PSO2/Wildstar(to a lesser extent) does, instead of incredibly archaic MMO-lock-ons.
I can only imagine how much more brilliant PvP'd (and PvE) have been with everyone actually having to execute skilled aiming in addition to just zipping around.
The Area-Placement code for Strafing Run, would work far better for the AoE's in Onslaught.
You do realize that many of the area attacks in Onslaught are non-targeted and thus cannot be interrupted by temporarily breaking LoS? For Grond, Roaring Fury and Unleashed Nuclear Fury are PBAoEs, Nuclear Shockwave and Atom Splitting Fist are non-targeted line attacks that simply fire in the direction he's facing. As far as I can tell, each villain only has one targeted AoE, everything else is either a PBAoE or just fires in the direction the villain is facing.
Also, Strafing Run targeting is toxic and should never be used again.
The Area-Placement code for Strafing Run, would work far better for the AoE's in Onslaught.
No rewrites need doing at all, its cryptics favorite algorithm, Copy > Paste > Edit > Done.
The Code is already there to make it work.
Except Strafing Run's coding is one of the most broken and exploitable in the entire game. No thanks. Strafing run objectively needs fixing to remove that ground targeting component entirely, and be made into a targeted AoE in line with the rest of the game' mechanics. (In addition to some major nerfs to either its damage or cooldown.)
Comments
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Given that the release date has been set I hope they are able to make significant changes. As I mentioned in another thread the gear is overpriced and kind of boring as secondaries they aren't worth grinding for. (Aside from the one piece with a proc, but I'll take pure stats over something that relies on rng any time)
So we got 2 weeks, Im sure they can Improve over time
In the open world, no one has to wait and even if a few people trickled in, that's better than doing nothing waiting for a que that may never pop.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
As others have mentioned, boss characters must have mobility restrictions. Boss characters shouldn't be able to kite players, to hide behind geometry, and to consistently thwart all melee character damage by continually moving out of reach.
For this system to work:
Supervillains must have their travel powers disabled when they enter combat.
Supervillains must not disable player travel powers.
Supervillains must be /followable so melee characters aren't frustrated.
If the boss's powers aren't enough to defeat players, then those powers need to be adjusted. Kiting is not a power.
It would be a sick injustice to let this go through onto live.
As far as farming the same few squishies, I suggest adding some perks for defeating X number of different players within the 10 minute time limit. It would encourage attempting to defat all heroes than just a few.
-Sterga
Players need to be given a prompt, like when entering duels, that allows them decline or accept entering combat with a villains. If they decline, players should not be able to receive this prompt again for a set amount of time. This will discourage villains from pestering others into combat and will also prevent players from damaging villains without ever actually being tagged with "Battling Supervillain!".
Crippling challenge should force villains to target the player who applies crippling challenge, similar to the forced aggro that Raksasha's pet apply. Otherwise, villains tend to simply attack the players with the smallest health bars and tanking plays no role.
Because of the enormous disparity of damage an onslaught villain can do to players with defensive builds compared to offensive or support builds, it is imperative that a system of forcing a villain's targeting to be changed to another player who either utilizes an advantage or hits an Aggro threshold be in place. This will partially alleviate the biased targeting of players who have offensive or support builds and small max health numbers.
You cannot take this for granted, it WILL effect them. "Oh it wont be that bad" Right...so the logic is: "just wait and see then". < is that really wise?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Also, once you're forcing the onslaught villain to target someone other than who they want to, you've essentially reduced the player to an employee doing the work of an AI. They just spam powers when they come off cooldown, and don't even bother using their targeting controls since their targeting will be determined by the players with crippling challenge anyway. At this point, you might as well just have the player spawn an AI-controlled boss and wait and see if it manages to kill any players.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
So, I think maybe you might be confusing my suggestion of forced target switching with a suggestion to force villains to stay locked onto a target. To clarify:
- If a player either applies Crippling Challenge or reaches a threshold of Threat points, force the target to that player.
- There should then be a cool down (CC already has a cool down on being reapplied) that prevents the villain can having their target forcibly switched.
- Almost Immediately after the target is switched, the villain is able to select any target via tabbing or clicking.
- After the cool down applied to the villain (in bullet 2) a player may again reach a Threat threshold or use CC to force villain's targeting back to them.
The idea isn't to force a player to only attack one hero, but to allow heroes who see another character about to be defeated pull the aggro momentarily.This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
BUG: Animation for Gravitic Ripple plays to long if held for its full maintain. It also may stop playing while using the power.
BUG: Nuclear Shockwave's animation is not playing.
That's the difference between an area designed for him to drop in on and an area where players are just starting that the original devs knew dropping big bads in on was a terrible idea.
Its game design common sense to not ambush players that just started playing.
Of course, the AoE griefing needs to be fixed, and it most likely will be. They already have put in efforts to stop griefing so you know it matters to them.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
can you cast one and then become a villain?
damage, energy,
do villains have a shield or heal yet?
I try to avoid the desert because i have the same luck(bad) with Grond landing on me, as I do with the giant dinosaur turning up when I'm trying to do missions. Run around the corner of the path and suddenly wish I had teleport.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
1. Newbie trolling by Spawnkilling.
2. Tank effectiveness at forcing aggro (Taunting to force Onslaught to target them)
3. Poorly littered Turrets which either Kill an Onslaught near instantly without a warning that the turret is there, and the poor placement of the turrets still allows Onslaughts to placethemselves right on a spawn point.
4. Onslaughts being free-roam in the world allows players, or the Onslaught to create unfair play with Out-Of-Combat Regeneration bonuses, and power-cancelling because of hiding behind a huge selection of Objects, gaps or corridors. Kiting in short.
5. Newbies with Pestilence/Fireform/Seraphim(+Balance) can be automatically flagged for Open PvP, without wanting to be, due to their PBAoE. This once again, creates a situation where they keep being killed at spawn, until they are forced to quit the game, and try to see if they can leave the start of the game later.
7. Permanent Stealth still being an issue.
8. Pre-used Buff Devices like Draysha Gas Pistol or Necrull's Elixir are carrying over to Onslaught when they shouldnt.
9. Snares/Roots/TP removes arent strong enough to keep Onslaughts in melee range for melee characters to work.
10. Token gains are only earned the fastest, by not properly playing Onslaught, getting a bunch of people organised, to just suicide on purpose for mass token-generation. Putting a 60 second cooldown on how often people can gain tokens from each target, does NOTHING to stop that.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
Gravitar has range over these turrets, meaning if they happen to be left alone the turret could be destroyed. This is bad because Gravitar could potentially destroy the turrets meant to protect respawn locations and leave an opening for other villains to spawncamp.
I don't mind Gravitar having these attacks being able to hit at such long distances, but I believe the turrets should be given that Ultimate Regeneration buff the Powerhouse Regen Dummies have so Gravitar Villains can't destroy them.
--
Trivia: Destroying a Hermes Heavy Turret at Level 40 gives "[9:51] [Reward] You received 47,584 Resources."
--
The new Onslaught Secondaries are underperforming due to their lack of Superstat Bonuses. I don't think they should grant a massive Primary Boost like Vigilante's, but adding a more balanced Superstat Boost to the items like the Set Items in the Questionite Store (Armadillo's, Cyber Augmented, Samurai's) could be exactly what these new equips need to be effective. Perhaps add more equipment that allows players to decide which kind of boost to their Superstats they would like. (Primary Only, Secondaries Only, or Balanced)
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
2. No, players should never be forced into attacking a certain target ever. This is pvp, with a twist, not pve.
3. Yeah, better placement of the turrets can help. Along with a warning.
4. Welcome to pvp. Plus, people are always complaining about the game being to easy and the ai being dumb, well, this is the result of them upgrading the system to all players to play the villain. Now you guys complaining that its to hard?
5. This can be solved with number 1 easily enough.
7. Oh yeah, this needs fixing big time.
8. Some do, some don't. But its not only buff devices that do that, controllable pets also remain summoned when you enter onslaught form.
9. Yes, this is an issue that needs fixing.
10. Frankly, with the prices as high as they are, we need all the tokens we can get. Lets assume the onslaught does manage to complete the quest given. That's only 315 tokens. Given that the prices are things are 5k+, this will take a while to complete. And frankly, with how new the event will be I do not see an onslaught villain staying up long enough to be able to farm lots of tokens. People will be swarming them, healers will be there, the onlsaughts will be lucky to kill enough of them to complete their objective. And than there is the problem of those indestructible heroes. So, this is not an actual problem.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
That makes most arguments over gameplay mechanics that are based on Onslaught being pvp meaningless.
I don't see the huge problem with players being forced (or strongly encouraged) to attack certain players over others.
Something like that is needed so the villains are a threat to even tanky builds, but will not easily pick of the more squishy builds all the time.
The live stream didn't show this, since for one there were a lot more players per villains than is intended, secondly the devs were not playing like they were trying to get tokens at all, and thirdly because of stealth.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Example:
-Grond wants to throw a big Boulder at you
-You hide behind a trashcan
-Gronds power cancels
Its silly, discluding that a big boulder would obviously flatten a trashcan, it hinders fair gameplay. Players can too easily pop out, use an instantcast power like Strafing Run, and just go hiding again, incapable of being hurt, and gaining Out-Of-Combat regen back to Full Health.
People can sometimes be seen abusing these mechanics when in Gravitar games, theres a Tree that you can stand behind, to gain immunity from all attacks.
I like the open world aspect. If I were a new player and saw a group of superheroes fighting a HUGE Grond, my first thought would be cool. Not to freak out and run away.
----
Suggestion:
The "Battling Supervillains" buff should disappear on player defeat. Requiring a player to enter combat with a villain again in order to be targetable. That solves a few issues and will discourage. farming of weaker players.
Personally, I think the easiest fix is to just give Onslaught critters a stacking buff that increases as they take damage, and decreases when they defeat people; set the buff large enough and eventually the kiter will make a mistake and get pasted.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Since it it piercing damage, it works much better for builds that focus on physical damage.
To be fair it works both ways, put a light pole between you and Grond and you'll encounter Line of sight issues. (This works for Mega D's as well) Though the onslaught villains don't gain any kind of regen. Though it probably would help if they could also heal while out of combat.
Just because someone is a new player doesn't mean they have a terminal case of stupidity. If a players see a villain with a big a-- sign above their heads, do you think they're going to go up and give that person a hug to trigger those pbaoe aura effects? And it also assumes no one is going after villains ever. Don't villains have a giant beam of light advertising their location to everyone? How long are these trolly villains going to be alone to harass new players? It also assumes that no one in westside has a decked out 40 they can switch to or has a guild with people they can call on for aid. Or knows how to type in zone.
Spamming 100ft ranged powers with crip c to auto taunt villains every 10 seconds sounds pretty boring. Or irritating if you're playing the villain.
Is there any reason why you have to build a villain up? They don't exactly seem dangerous, so why not just let them have all of their powers from the start?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
THIS. This has always annoyed me ingame. Standing behind a skinny signpost, blocks line of sight.
as for New people deliberately setting off Attack mode. I'm more worried about a villain deliberately getting in the way to set off the attack mode. I pointed this out in the first thread. All they have to do is just keep close and wait for an accident.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Often the result of a "Nuke" type power, being blocked by a "Plastic chair" seems a tad bit...wrong. Disagreeing with that would kinda make me worry about you..
Another example:
-Player goes to use Gravity Driver to hit a large group, 10 Enemies in a large area.
-Main target steps behind a tree before the charge bar is filled.
-The entire AoE power is cancelled.
Makes no sense. And it's being abused already, were not even on live yet.
I can only imagine how much more brilliant PvP'd (and PvE) have been with everyone actually having to execute skilled aiming in addition to just zipping around.
Snark never dies.
No rewrites need doing at all, its cryptics favorite algorithm, Copy > Paste > Edit > Done.
The Code is already there to make it work.
Also, Strafing Run targeting is toxic and should never be used again.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Snark never dies.