I think adding villains now would make no sense. they would be good if we had an alliance-horde kind of two sided conflict, but CO doesn't have that. Besides Villains would probably need a whole different quest line, since we're trying to save people when doing our hero quests. Besides I don't think there's a villain side in champions IP, or is it?
I think adding villains now would make no sense. they would be good if we had an alliance-horde kind of two sided conflict, but CO doesn't have that. Besides Villains would probably need a whole different quest line, since we're trying to save people when doing our hero quests.
Besides I don't think there's a villain side in champions IP, or is it?
Nope, Champions is a game of superheroics. You can conceivably use the game mechanics to run a villain game, but it's certainly not part of the IP, any more than some of the things I've done to D&D over the years are any part of its IP (especially the crossover of AD&D with Villains & Vigilantes, which my players affectionately dubbed "VD&D", or the time my elf archer shot himself to death while figuring out how to use the M-60 we picked up in a Gamma World crossover. He thought the long tube was a sight for the weapon, you see...).
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Mutants & Masterminds IP has a sourcebook dedicated to playable villain characters, but Champions IP never got anything like that. It's worth noting that even M&M, which is a competitor to Champions PnP, needed an entire book about how to tweak some rules and build campaigns for villains, because even in PnP RPG differences between campaigns for heroes and campaigns for villains are greater than just different alignment written on a character sheet.
Mutants & Masterminds IP has a sourcebook dedicated to playable villain characters, but Champions IP never got anything like that. It's worth noting that even M&M, which is a competitor to Champions PnP, needed an entire book about how to tweak some rules and build campaigns for villains, because even in PnP RPG differences between campaigns for heroes and campaigns for villains are greater than just different alignment written on a character sheet.
You're right. And as a player I loved COV. I was one of those weird ducks who spent more time villain side than hero side. That being said, it was a ghost town. We used to joke that playing COV was "you better know how to solo" mode.
When I was playing STO, I frequented KDF side (notice a pattern here?). And again that side of things had a small fraction of players who enjoyed it. They are diehard and dedicated lot, but still a tiny portion of STO's total population. I think STO even reported that expanding Klingon content wasn't profitable for them, but was done more of out of dedication the Trek IP.
As much as I would love it, bringing a villain side to CO isn't a smart move. It also probably isn't going to happen. However, I consider "Monster Play" a viable alternative. I only wish that we could build and kite out our monster becomes like vehicles!
When I was playing STO, I frequented KDF side (notice a pattern here?). And again that side of things had a small fraction of players who enjoyed it. They are diehard and dedicated lot, but still a tiny portion of STO's total population. I think STO even reported that expanding Klingon content wasn't profitable for them, but was done more of out of dedication the Trek IP.
And the Klingons aren't even villains, by and large - they just have a different outlook on the universe and what one should do with it. They aren't fighting the Federation in the beginning of the game just because "arrrgh we're teh evulz" - it's because they're convinced the Fed's leadership is riddled with Undine infiltrators (and really, they're not wrong) and they believe the proper way to confront this is to defeat the Feds in open battle first, same as they did with the Gorn. (And yes, the Gorn royal family was thoroughly infested with Undine by that point.)
In WoW, the Horde aren't evil; that's part of the reason for the Horde/Alliance conflict, because the Alliance leadership is too bigoted and pigheaded to admit that the orcs have broken free of their former masters, and the orcs have been forced to ally with others rejected by the Alliance for similarly stupid reasons (the tauren, for instance, who wanted to join the Alliance but were blackballed by the centaurs that compete with them for grazing land). The orcs, on the other hand, think the Alliance is too soft to repel the Burning Legion again, and are trying to toughen them up for what the Horde believes is an inevitable battle for the fate of Azeroth. (Remember, they've already lost one world to the Legion...)
In the Champs IP, there is a Dark Heroes supplement - but even there, they aren't villains, they're vigilantes, whose basic moral disagreement with the more classic heroes is what level of departure from the law is acceptable in the cause of Fighting Evil.
Most people don't really want to think of themselves as "evil". Even the most egregious cases in human history thought they were doing the right thing at the time, and that history would vindicate them. (Well, except Genghis Khan and Attilla the Hun; they couldn't have cared less about history.)
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
There are many types of villainy and ways to be evil or counter to good, there is the psycho who kills because he has no reason other than in his own twisted mind, some make a game of it for a laugh. There is the Merc who does it for money and maybe the danger or thrill, this is also the hit man would fall into this but takes a more detached approach. The evil mind behind the curtain who's plans are worked through the underlings in his employ, more of a hands off approach (this would be the world rulers and the dooms day makers a very hard one to do in a game as it takes them a long time to get to this point so you would have to play the long game ). and there are many more examples but I and others know no amount of talking can change someones mind you will just have to try it for your self when they get it up and going down the line.
Then's theres politicians. The most evil bastards around.
I would love to be a villain, as long as I get to do more villainy things..... Like rob banks when ever I want, or blown up cars when ever I pleased. In City of Villains it was pretty empty.... even more then the heroes side on all 11 severs. Also you mainly fought villains, the same villains the heroes fought, the only true villainy thing in that game was Mayhem and Bank Heists.
If we get villains we just fight more heroes, and try to take over the world and destroy it.
Also, for people saying Champions doesn't allow it: You guys do know that few if any roleplaying systems actively endorse evil campaigns or at the very least "Not heroic" ones? And yet they're still done by players?
AWWWW CHAMPIONS UNIVERSE! DON'T YOU DARE. BE SOUR. CLAP FOR YOUR NIGHTMARE AND FEEEEEEEEEEEL THE POWAAAAAAH!
I've never seen a game where you can actually play a villain. I've seen a lot of games where you play someone whose objectives happen to run counter to those of others... in which case you're simply playing a participant in a conflict or war.
Still waiting for "Terrible Person Simulator".
Try Evil Genius. That was a fun game.
I can't remember if you actually did evil deeds but that's who you play, anyway.
I never played it, have not read any thing about it, I knew I guy who said it had a lot in common with the movie Despicable Me. As in, silly villainy, not Evil Bond villainy. :: shrugs :: that that for what it is worth. nothing.
Thematic-wise it's possible to create a sort of "redeemed" villain whom while promising to be rehabilitated enough and do goodie goodie stuff to look like they've turn over a new leaf, it really is just a ruse. They could do some evil stuff on the side in secret and cover their tracks really well.
Thematic-wise it's possible to create a sort of "redeemed" villain whom while promising to be rehabilitated enough and do goodie goodie stuff to look like they've turn over a new leaf, it really is just a ruse. They could do some evil stuff on the side in secret and cover their tracks really well.
Like foam finger furries in Club C. I aint saying thats what I do but thematic-wise its possible.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
It's a pun based on Greek mythology. A Satyr (sometimes spelled satire in the wrong hands), is a half-man with two horse legs or two goat legs depending on the artistic depiction. That's broad strokes. Wiki has more details if it helps. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyr
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My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Besides I don't think there's a villain side in champions IP, or is it?
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
One time I lifted some debris off a person and saved them from a fire, but that was long long ago....
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
When I was playing STO, I frequented KDF side (notice a pattern here?). And again that side of things had a small fraction of players who enjoyed it. They are diehard and dedicated lot, but still a tiny portion of STO's total population. I think STO even reported that expanding Klingon content wasn't profitable for them, but was done more of out of dedication the Trek IP.
As much as I would love it, bringing a villain side to CO isn't a smart move. It also probably isn't going to happen. However, I consider "Monster Play" a viable alternative. I only wish that we could build and kite out our monster becomes like vehicles!
In WoW, the Horde aren't evil; that's part of the reason for the Horde/Alliance conflict, because the Alliance leadership is too bigoted and pigheaded to admit that the orcs have broken free of their former masters, and the orcs have been forced to ally with others rejected by the Alliance for similarly stupid reasons (the tauren, for instance, who wanted to join the Alliance but were blackballed by the centaurs that compete with them for grazing land). The orcs, on the other hand, think the Alliance is too soft to repel the Burning Legion again, and are trying to toughen them up for what the Horde believes is an inevitable battle for the fate of Azeroth. (Remember, they've already lost one world to the Legion...)
In the Champs IP, there is a Dark Heroes supplement - but even there, they aren't villains, they're vigilantes, whose basic moral disagreement with the more classic heroes is what level of departure from the law is acceptable in the cause of Fighting Evil.
Most people don't really want to think of themselves as "evil". Even the most egregious cases in human history thought they were doing the right thing at the time, and that history would vindicate them. (Well, except Genghis Khan and Attilla the Hun; they couldn't have cared less about history.)
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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At least a foundry/architect to make up your villain side.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Step one : Simply state in zone chat that Superman kills.
Step two : Eat popcorn while zone chat self implodes.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
"Not I," said the Cat.
"Not I," said the Dog.
"Not I," said the Zed.
Then's theres politicians. The most evil bastards around.
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If we get villains we just fight more heroes, and try to take over the world and destroy it.
Also, for people saying Champions doesn't allow it: You guys do know that few if any roleplaying systems actively endorse evil campaigns or at the very least "Not heroic" ones? And yet they're still done by players?
It's on GoG. Knock your self out.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
That's broad strokes. Wiki has more details if it helps.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyr
My super cool CC build and how to use it.