aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2015
You cannot tell me that DC's Light of Divinity (Level 60 Class Feature) that heals for 500 HP every 3 sec (Player HP pool is 90k average now) is more relevant than any feat.
It's just one of many <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> passives, like most passives, including everything a SS CW has, except SS and CP.
I never had a problem when Deep Gash critted and wouldn't care if FotG did.
It's at least flat 10% - 20% damage loss, which actually hurts if you don't get compensation for it. For example in controls.
Okay, the following classes were nerfed previously with no respec and no "compensation" despite being key to the class build:
-TR Whisperknife's disheartening strike
-TR Scoundrel, reduction of all control times
-HR Combat's Wilds Medicine
-DC Geas and Cleanse (only way for a DC to counter control, and previously one of the only viable DC heroic feats as it doesn't have a 5 min cooldown, or require 40K power to begin to see a benefit)
Yes, I appreciate that the CW's Ivory Tower has been reduced to a Lakeview Mansion. This, however, does not entitle the class to become the de facto recipient of benefits during a housing crisis.
For me it is a ~16% damage reduction. Stormspel went from 27% of my damage to 14% in running HE's in IWD according to ACT.
Build: Thaumathurge, 3k TIL, Vorpal (normal) enchant. CoI (tab), IT, SS, ST and OF.
Feytouched prices went sky high because of the CW nerf...
Feytouched has been up for a while now because of how bugged it was earlier with powers hitting for millions and millions of damage and also because it makes the pvp fights take even longer. Its might be up more now because of it but its been crazy popular this mod.
Feytouched was 350, 1mill and 6 mill a few days ago.
Now its 550, 1,8 and 8-9 mill....
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited June 2015
My only beef with Feytouch is that it doesn't staff with other players. If you have people both using Feytouch in a group, the first person to hit a target gets the buff, and the other person doesn't get anything.
It's really risky to invest that much in an enchant that might not end up doing anything for you. With that in mind, if you're looking for personal damage, I might consider sticking with Vorpal.
The testing isn't amazing for reasons they mention and anyone who's been on preview is aware of but its something.
Ye i saw the price the guy is posting his perfect for but the transcendents weren't that much the other day. He's probably being a bit optimistic with that price.
Since August of 2013 I've seen the CW class double to triple everyone elses damage , the exception being the SW and after the new wore off of the SW and they sold all their booster packs they were brought to heel too. Even the deep gash bug back in the day only put the gwf on even footing with the CW class . Worse thing about it is theres absolutely no cc with CW's now , even threads saying assanine things like "Best CC is killing everything" , like every other class is there to cater to the omnipotent CW . Its as bad as a DC who only specs for dps or a GF who refuses to use enforced threat , useless in a high end dungeon . Sorry I have no sympathy that they dont get 100% crit now .CW passives are by far better than any other classes .
For what its worth to someone with that much resentment for another class you see less cc now because the mobs have cc resist and if you're objecting to less singularity the honest truth is its not going to group dangerous mobs for you even remotely reliably and oppressive force is the best protection a wizard can offer you. If you doubt that ask a cw to show you sometime.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited June 2015
Worse thing about it is theres absolutely no cc with CW's now , even threads saying assanine things like "Best CC is killing everything" , like every other class is there to cater to the omnipotent CW . Its as bad as a DC who only specs for dps or a GF who refuses to use enforced threat , useless in a high end dungeon .
Why don't you post a guide then, and tell all of us exactly how you want us to play. Because, you know, we're all here to please you.
Although I find it odd that the CWs with whom you group don't use Icy Terrain, Steal Time, or even CoI on tab.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Worse thing about it is theres absolutely no cc with CW's now , even threads saying assanine things like "Best CC is killing everything" , like every other class is there to cater to the omnipotent CW .
This is hyperbole.
First, the phrase "death is the best CC" is true, but it IS tongue and cheek. Second, if you read and understood it, you would see that it is NOT a "lolz do the most DPS paingiver 4 lyfe!" build.
It's a team buff build, that also brings a lot of CC and Damage with it as well.
People need to understand what optimal is. It's not "do one thing awesome, and two things mediocre". It's about bring the best of everything you have to offer to groups.
The CW can do three things really well: Damage. Crowd Control. Buff/debuff. Death is the best is a build meant to maximize all three, so you bring as much to a group as you possibly can.
So I get your rant. And you're welcome to an opinion. But its an ignorant one, and you'd be better served actually understanding what you're ranting about, than just shooting your mouth off.
EDIT: And this is why a nerf to ONE aspect of it doesn't change the build. It still does exactly what it's suppose to do, and it does it as well (if not better imho ) than any other build out there.
Since August of 2013 I've seen the CW class double to triple everyone elses damage , the exception being the SW and after the new wore off of the SW and they sold all their booster packs they were brought to heel too. Even the deep gash bug back in the day only put the gwf on even footing with the CW class . Worse thing about it is theres absolutely no cc with CW's now , even threads saying assanine things like "Best CC is killing everything" , like every other class is there to cater to the omnipotent CW . Its as bad as a DC who only specs for dps or a GF who refuses to use enforced threat , useless in a high end dungeon . Sorry I have no sympathy that they dont get 100% crit now .CW passives are by far better than any other classes .
In mod2 a GWFs did more dmg.
CW passives are compensattion for shard dmg. It was nerfed now.
I think in pve we finally have reached a good balance for the following classes: cws, hrs, warlocks, tr, clerics and gfs. Paladins and gwfs should be definitely looked at. One is like god and the other just have too many amplifiers....hidden dagger is too much and lostmauth damage should be a fixed value
I think in pve we finally have reached a good balance for the following classes: cws, hrs, warlocks, tr, clerics and gfs. Paladins and gwfs should be definitely looked at. One is like god and the other just have too many amplifiers....hidden dagger is too much and lostmauth damage should be a fixed value
Warlocks? You mean the class of a million different bugs? Uh huh...
First, the phrase "death is the best CC" is true, but it IS tongue and cheek. Second, if you read and understood it, you would see that it is NOT a "lolz do the most DPS paingiver 4 lyfe!" build.
It's a team buff build, that also brings a lot of CC and Damage with it as well.
People need to understand what optimal is. It's not "do one thing awesome, and two things mediocre". It's about bring the best of everything you have to offer to groups.
The CW can do three things really well: Damage. Crowd Control. Buff/debuff. Death is the best is a build meant to maximize all three, so you bring as much to a group as you possibly can.
So I get your rant. And you're welcome to an opinion. But its an ignorant one, and you'd be better served actually understanding what you're ranting about, than just shooting your mouth off.
EDIT: And this is why a nerf to ONE aspect of it doesn't change the build. It still does exactly what it's suppose to do, and it does it as well (if not better imho ) than any other build out there.
This is very true. And it shows in many cases in your tut. At the same time you gotta remember the majority of CW's aren't going to take this into account. Paingiver is going to be an underlining thing among most CW's. It's what matters. I've talked to many CW's over the course of my playing this game. ALL of them want to do damage, nothing else. Referring back to your guide which is put together well, the only reason why now I see a lot of CW's using it is simply because it is (in most people's opinions) the best way to be top of the chart. Yes it has party aspects and helps the party along. But if it did not come with the fact that it had a high damage output...What I'm saying is I would like to see how many CW's would use it if the damage wasn't there.
Now you do have some people that do think of the party. In my sense as a CW, I like to dance between the two. I like CCing mobs and doing damage. Yes I give up a bit of damage, and yes I'm not perma freezing. But the results are there. It works.
I have to disagree with your response and the response you quoted. There is CC with CW's and a great amount of it. But how many CW's are willing to go full oppressor, give up damage, and play their role; a true Control Wizard. Not many. People want to do damage. If there is a class that can do any amount of damage people will make it. It's been this way in MMO's for a long period of time. You have select few that are actually their for a party. And they get geared up extremely fast because they are the only one of their class willing to actually not be damage oriented and support the party.
I will boldly say in terms of CW's, unless it has the best result of damage, most CW's won't do it.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I have to disagree with your response and the response you quoted. There is CC with CW's and a great amount of it. But how many CW's are willing to go full oppressor, give up damage, and play their role; a true Control Wizard. Not many. People want to do damage. If there is a class that can do any amount of damage people will make it. It's been this way in MMO's for a long period of time. You have select few that are actually their for a party. And they get geared up extremely fast because they are the only one of their class willing to actually not be damage oriented and support the party.
Adds have to die. That's the problem here. And on single target boss fights, and Oppressor is dead weight since there's nothing to control.
When you spec oppressor, you cut your damage in half. More if you slot Orb of Imposition. That's just the reality of it.
And when you go into fights like Valindra (all single target, no adds), Lostmauth (single target, no adds), Fulminorax (single target, no adds), you're not contributing. And in some instances, like breaking your healer out of Valindra's grasp in VT, or destroying her shield before she summons a portal or chokes a teammate to death, DPS really matters.
In the T2 fights, overwhelmingly adds aren't a problem. Sure, there's adds that need to be dealt with, but they need to die. At a certain point you simply don't have the ability to keep large amounts of adds locked down.
That's why a Control Wizard needs to use ALL the tools in his toolbox, not just 1/3rd of them. Control is one. Buffs/Debuffs is one. And Damage is the third.
Look at it this way. Would you rather.
a) Control a mob for three seconds, and kill them in three seconds
-or-
b) Control a mob for five seconds, and kill them in six seconds
Which is more effective?
Ultimately the most desirable end-game state for any foe you face is dead. Control and damage is just a pathway to achieving that. But in order to maximizes the rate at which you can change a mob's state from alive to dead most effectively requires you to maximize the effectiveness of BOTH damage AND control.
Comments
It's just one of many <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> passives, like most passives, including everything a SS CW has, except SS and CP.
I never had a problem when Deep Gash critted and wouldn't care if FotG did.
Okay, the following classes were nerfed previously with no respec and no "compensation" despite being key to the class build:
-TR Whisperknife's disheartening strike
-TR Scoundrel, reduction of all control times
-HR Combat's Wilds Medicine
-DC Geas and Cleanse (only way for a DC to counter control, and previously one of the only viable DC heroic feats as it doesn't have a 5 min cooldown, or require 40K power to begin to see a benefit)
Yes, I appreciate that the CW's Ivory Tower has been reduced to a Lakeview Mansion. This, however, does not entitle the class to become the de facto recipient of benefits during a housing crisis.
Build: Thaumathurge, 3k TIL, Vorpal (normal) enchant. CoI (tab), IT, SS, ST and OF.
Feytouched has been up for a while now because of how bugged it was earlier with powers hitting for millions and millions of damage and also because it makes the pvp fights take even longer. Its might be up more now because of it but its been crazy popular this mod.
Now its 550, 1,8 and 8-9 mill....
It's really risky to invest that much in an enchant that might not end up doing anything for you. With that in mind, if you're looking for personal damage, I might consider sticking with Vorpal.
The testing isn't amazing for reasons they mention and anyone who's been on preview is aware of but its something.
Ye i saw the price the guy is posting his perfect for but the transcendents weren't that much the other day. He's probably being a bit optimistic with that price.
Why don't you post a guide then, and tell all of us exactly how you want us to play. Because, you know, we're all here to please you.
Although I find it odd that the CWs with whom you group don't use Icy Terrain, Steal Time, or even CoI on tab.
This is hyperbole.
First, the phrase "death is the best CC" is true, but it IS tongue and cheek. Second, if you read and understood it, you would see that it is NOT a "lolz do the most DPS paingiver 4 lyfe!" build.
It's a team buff build, that also brings a lot of CC and Damage with it as well.
People need to understand what optimal is. It's not "do one thing awesome, and two things mediocre". It's about bring the best of everything you have to offer to groups.
The CW can do three things really well: Damage. Crowd Control. Buff/debuff. Death is the best is a build meant to maximize all three, so you bring as much to a group as you possibly can.
So I get your rant. And you're welcome to an opinion. But its an ignorant one, and you'd be better served actually understanding what you're ranting about, than just shooting your mouth off.
EDIT: And this is why a nerf to ONE aspect of it doesn't change the build. It still does exactly what it's suppose to do, and it does it as well (if not better imho
In mod2 a GWFs did more dmg.
CW passives are compensattion for shard dmg. It was nerfed now.
Warlocks? You mean the class of a million different bugs? Uh huh...
This is very true. And it shows in many cases in your tut. At the same time you gotta remember the majority of CW's aren't going to take this into account. Paingiver is going to be an underlining thing among most CW's. It's what matters. I've talked to many CW's over the course of my playing this game. ALL of them want to do damage, nothing else. Referring back to your guide which is put together well, the only reason why now I see a lot of CW's using it is simply because it is (in most people's opinions) the best way to be top of the chart. Yes it has party aspects and helps the party along. But if it did not come with the fact that it had a high damage output...What I'm saying is I would like to see how many CW's would use it if the damage wasn't there.
Now you do have some people that do think of the party. In my sense as a CW, I like to dance between the two. I like CCing mobs and doing damage. Yes I give up a bit of damage, and yes I'm not perma freezing. But the results are there. It works.
I have to disagree with your response and the response you quoted. There is CC with CW's and a great amount of it. But how many CW's are willing to go full oppressor, give up damage, and play their role; a true Control Wizard. Not many. People want to do damage. If there is a class that can do any amount of damage people will make it. It's been this way in MMO's for a long period of time. You have select few that are actually their for a party. And they get geared up extremely fast because they are the only one of their class willing to actually not be damage oriented and support the party.
I will boldly say in terms of CW's, unless it has the best result of damage, most CW's won't do it.
Adds have to die. That's the problem here. And on single target boss fights, and Oppressor is dead weight since there's nothing to control.
When you spec oppressor, you cut your damage in half. More if you slot Orb of Imposition. That's just the reality of it.
And when you go into fights like Valindra (all single target, no adds), Lostmauth (single target, no adds), Fulminorax (single target, no adds), you're not contributing. And in some instances, like breaking your healer out of Valindra's grasp in VT, or destroying her shield before she summons a portal or chokes a teammate to death, DPS really matters.
In the T2 fights, overwhelmingly adds aren't a problem. Sure, there's adds that need to be dealt with, but they need to die. At a certain point you simply don't have the ability to keep large amounts of adds locked down.
That's why a Control Wizard needs to use ALL the tools in his toolbox, not just 1/3rd of them. Control is one. Buffs/Debuffs is one. And Damage is the third.
Look at it this way. Would you rather.
a) Control a mob for three seconds, and kill them in three seconds
-or-
b) Control a mob for five seconds, and kill them in six seconds
Which is more effective?
Ultimately the most desirable end-game state for any foe you face is dead. Control and damage is just a pathway to achieving that. But in order to maximizes the rate at which you can change a mob's state from alive to dead most effectively requires you to maximize the effectiveness of BOTH damage AND control.