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GF Class Feedback Thread
damnacious
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 354 Arc User
Hi again fellow Guardians!
Thank you to all of you for your previous enthusiasm in providing your feedback in the Mod5 thread and others that have been created since. I really appreciate the care you've shown and the efforts you made, despite it sometimes feeling that your efforts might have been ignored.
I've started this thread in the hope that, with the recent increases and changes to the communication between the development teams and player base, if we now provide our feedback then it might not be ignored and we can actually and finally have a 'desirable' class.
As similar to my last thread, in order to compile your feedback more easily, please use this thread to bring to the attention of the development team any constructive comments / suggestions you might have. If you have any bugs to report, I recommend posting them in http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/for...01-Bug-Reports first, but you can certainly feel free to post them again here too! (I hope that at some stage my suggestion of a class bug thread will be implemented.)
When posting to this thread, please be as clear and detailed as possible and use the following format and color style:
Bug Report: Block
Spec: All
Block sometimes does not work and there is a 'delay' after raising the Guard where it does not mitigate damage as it should.
Suggestion Topic: Rework/increase the Tactician's capstone mechanic
Spec: Tactician
With the current difficulty of content, the Tactician's capstone mechanic is almost obsolete as if a Tactician does not use Guard to take advantage of this feat then they are very likely dead. I would like the capstone mechanic to be changed so that while Blocking, the Tactician gains increased Action Point Gain for themselves and for their party members within 50'.
Comment Topic: Where I see the role and future of the GF to be
Spec: All
I'd love to see the GF become more of a 'tank' type character that is more about taking damage than dealing it. I feel the GF is, with Mod4, getting much closer to this ideal. I would like to see the GFs mitigation and survivability increased proportionately with the difficulty of challenges and the capacity for the GF to pull and hold aggro maintained. I would like to see the GF continue to develop more utility rather than damage for PVP and essentially have the GF fill an essential tank role in every party.
If you would like to generally discuss anything about GFs, please consider doing so here too, yet please be aware that your opinion may not be taken into consideration by the development team if it does not follow the above format and style.
NOTE: This thread is specifically designed to provide a single place for GF players to provide their feedback on the class. This thread is not designed for non-GF players to criticise the feedback of GF players, regardless of the value or veracity of that criticism. If you are not a GF player and aren't prepared to provide your GF focussed feedback designed to improve the class, then please do not post in this thread. Instead, feel free to post your opinion in either your own thread or the thread of someone else.
Many thanks in advance guys for your assistance and contributions! I hope that between us we may finally be able to improve our class into one we are proud of and thoroughly enjoy playing!
Damnacious
Thank you to all of you for your previous enthusiasm in providing your feedback in the Mod5 thread and others that have been created since. I really appreciate the care you've shown and the efforts you made, despite it sometimes feeling that your efforts might have been ignored.
I've started this thread in the hope that, with the recent increases and changes to the communication between the development teams and player base, if we now provide our feedback then it might not be ignored and we can actually and finally have a 'desirable' class.
As similar to my last thread, in order to compile your feedback more easily, please use this thread to bring to the attention of the development team any constructive comments / suggestions you might have. If you have any bugs to report, I recommend posting them in http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/for...01-Bug-Reports first, but you can certainly feel free to post them again here too! (I hope that at some stage my suggestion of a class bug thread will be implemented.)
When posting to this thread, please be as clear and detailed as possible and use the following format and color style:
Bug Report: Block
Spec: All
Block sometimes does not work and there is a 'delay' after raising the Guard where it does not mitigate damage as it should.
Suggestion Topic: Rework/increase the Tactician's capstone mechanic
Spec: Tactician
With the current difficulty of content, the Tactician's capstone mechanic is almost obsolete as if a Tactician does not use Guard to take advantage of this feat then they are very likely dead. I would like the capstone mechanic to be changed so that while Blocking, the Tactician gains increased Action Point Gain for themselves and for their party members within 50'.
Comment Topic: Where I see the role and future of the GF to be
Spec: All
I'd love to see the GF become more of a 'tank' type character that is more about taking damage than dealing it. I feel the GF is, with Mod4, getting much closer to this ideal. I would like to see the GFs mitigation and survivability increased proportionately with the difficulty of challenges and the capacity for the GF to pull and hold aggro maintained. I would like to see the GF continue to develop more utility rather than damage for PVP and essentially have the GF fill an essential tank role in every party.
If you would like to generally discuss anything about GFs, please consider doing so here too, yet please be aware that your opinion may not be taken into consideration by the development team if it does not follow the above format and style.
NOTE: This thread is specifically designed to provide a single place for GF players to provide their feedback on the class. This thread is not designed for non-GF players to criticise the feedback of GF players, regardless of the value or veracity of that criticism. If you are not a GF player and aren't prepared to provide your GF focussed feedback designed to improve the class, then please do not post in this thread. Instead, feel free to post your opinion in either your own thread or the thread of someone else.
Many thanks in advance guys for your assistance and contributions! I hope that between us we may finally be able to improve our class into one we are proud of and thoroughly enjoy playing!
Damnacious
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
GF for MOD6 need gear with stats like Deflection, Defence, Recovery.
Now there is tough choice between pieces with extra Penetration or Regeneration.
Suggestion: Improve shield time reaction
Reduce time of shield activation and shield slam deactivation.
It takes several seconds before reset. Lunging Strike does such reset.
— (The unwritten rule)
After testing a lot I feel our main issue in pve for me at least is our cast time and shield activation.
Suggestion:
Decrease some of our powers cast time like Iron warrior, fighters recovery, Into the frey and other defensive powers tht can sometimes get us killed because they activate slowly.
Our shield is way too clunky nd unreliable. It's activation should be way faster so we can block heavy attacks in time.
Our class still has so many bugs and they need to be finally fixed. I have spent many hours testing in pvp and we have way too many bugs that effect us a lot.
Bugs:
-Shield stays up perminantly but does not block dmg.
-Shield somtimes won't activate.
-Shield Somtimes drops for no reason.
-CC can go through shield. I notice this a lot.
-Guard can stay up sometimes and won't allow me to lower it untill stamina is gone.
-Sometimes my at-wills keep attacking and I can't stop it.
-Anvil of doom won't hit a target if it's below you but still goes on cooldown.
-Bull charge can knock an enemy behined you.
-Some powers like lunging strike and bull charge go into a double animation making fights a lot harder.
-Lunging strike and bull charge sometimes doesn't hit the target but stops half way. Even if it's due to range, the fact that the enemy was in range when casted means it should still hit.
-Desperate survival doesn't give the full deflect it says it does.
-Crescendo will target the enemy but not even work and still go on cooldown.
-Steel defence won't work if you get CC'd as you use a daily....If the daily goes off then it should still count...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RIP Foundry
ty. I updated my list.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Spec: Swordmaster
Steel Defense fails to activate causing me to die on a regular basis in dungeons: I die when I get hit very shortly (less than 2 second, in most cases less than 1 second) after having triggered successfully my daily. I know that I have triggered my daily successfully by looking at my action point gauge. If the action points are gone (and keep being gone in case I die), it is reasonable to assume that the game has registered that I successfully triggered a daily, and lag or misjudgement on my part as a cause can be ruled out.
If Steel Defense is slotted it must be mutually exclusive to set the action points to zero and to die, otherwise there is no logic here, but frustration only.
Suggestion Topic: Improve benefits from our primary ability score (Constitution)
Spec: All
Module 6 came with a boost to HP across the board due to the new gear which provides a huge chunk of additional HP. In relation to that the additional hitpoints we gain from our primary ability score (CON) are now minuscule, making CON weaker than it was before module 6.
Please improve our primary ability score and recover CON so it performs equal to how it did before module 6 hit. If you choose to improve CON, ask the community first in what way it should be recovered. Personally, I'd like to see CON giving more base threat.
I agree with this.
This is pretty important
Also the delay of activating shield
Interesting idea. However, I think that whatever the change to Constitution is, it should focus instead on increasing our own survivability as think that takes greater precedence at the moment. I will certainly agree with you on aggro, though. Ever since mod 6 went live I've never really had too much trouble holding aggro. The tricky part for me now is being able to soak up adequate damage for my party without kicking the bucket.
On a different topic, I've got a suggestion. I believe this got mentioned once before in the Preview Forum a few months back, but I would like to bring it up again here to make sure it gets noticed because it was a very valid point I think.
Comment Topic: Cleave Obsolete for SwordMasters?
Spec: All
This isn't so much of an issue for Iron Vanguard GFs, but for Swordmasters Cleave has been rendered obsolete by Weapon Master's Strike thanks to the buffs it got in the Mod 6 (buffs which I am very happy for by the way). WMS is faster, covers a vastly larger area and has a debuffing effect on targets. In short, when it comes to aggro pulling, WMS is simply better at getting the job done.
Suggestion Topic: Rework Cleave
Spec: All
Cleave needs to be reworked to help make it relevant again for Swordmaster GFs. Possible fixes could include one or more of the following: Increase speed of Cleave; Have 3rd strike of Cleave grant a stackable self buff (Max 3. Buff could increase Deflection Severity, or boost DR, etc.); Have 3rd strike of Cleave grant extra Action Points.
Another idea would be that constitutions serves to increase :
1) duration of mark on targets
2) duration of buffs like into the fray and how much temp hp they provide
3) duration of 50% damage resistance from iron warrior, bullcharge, lunging strike
4) casting speed for enforced threat/dailies
5)bonus damage for conquerror when under 20% hp, protectors get % in temp hp when under 30%, tactician provides % bonus ap to party members when guarding attacks
6)increase the bonus hp con gives to gf's by 0.25 or somthing like that (same or similar should apply for paladin/sentinel gwf's)
i focus on changes that will probably not make GF's OP in pvp terms(though i don't play pvp any more)
As a tactician yeah the capstone mechanics with current incoming damage kinda make it suicide...in addition to a whole host of other abilities that make trying to tank/kite a boss or trash mob suicide...
Spec:All
While not an earth shattering issue in current mechanics it would be nice if we could use a heal potion or health stone, etc. while blocking...not like the heal pots for current tier heal for anywhere near where they should and our block would be down before their reuse timer reset anyhow. As I said not a major issue just a minor be nice one.
Make our guard block 100% or 95% of dmg in pve. It would mke us tanky again. We would still need other fixes but that would be a great start I think.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Such a buff would certainly help. Here's another idea to consider.
Suggestion:
When blocking incoming attacks, your shield stores a portion of the deflected damage. When you lower your shield, the stored damage is converted into Temporary HP for you. Temp HP received this way cannot exceed X% of your max HP. I think this could help give us tanks some more breathing room when we have to lower our guard in order to execute an encounter, daily etc. If necessary, this ability could be disabled for PVP situations.
When I first saw new (a lot faster) animation for Enforced Threat I was like whaaaaaa....??
But that change happened to be a huge boost and a very welcome thing indeed.
As we all know we need to carefully choose a timeframe when we can activate certain skills. And I agree that some of them take way too much time to activate (I'm looking at you Iron Warrior...).
Moving forward, I'm not sure about Fighters Recovery - I think it's animation is pretty fast and, for me, it can stay as it is.
Shield related bugs should be made a priority as without a shield we're dead in a matter of seconds.
A proud member of "mythical horde of DPS GFs"
1). Is SW more dps or tank based?
2). Yes. I am panzer!
3). Get ACT if you want to celebrate your epeen.
4). Horniness will not stand between me and what I believe - "MM"
I think you mean reduce cast time so they activate faster, I agree many of our abilities are FAR to slow.
Many should be able to be activated from behind guard as well.
Practically all of our at-wills are far to slow to activate not to mention doing terrible damage.
15% of max hp for a guardian fighter isn't enough? Stack it with fey thistle. That right there adds up to more than a hit from cleave and probably something even with weapon master, for the price of holding down shift. Remember that's a skill utilized by the tankier builds of a tank class. We're not supposed to be a primary source of dps, and we already get a pretty decent return, all told.
So I would say that it would help to give the GF block the ability to defend 360 degrees OR at least make While Blocking is up - that a GF Totally Negates the effects of Combat Advantage against them.
Other Thing I was thinking was - that at 100% stamina the GF Blocks 100% Damage, at -50% Stamina then it drops to blocking 90% damage, then at -30% Stamina it goes down to blocking 80% Damage.....
I know these are both Tank oriented but this seemed like a survivability oriented thread
Spec: All
Currently, "trash" mobs have the following characteristics:
- (significant!) armor penetration
- critical strike
- AI which actively (and occasionally absurdly) attempts to maximize combat advantage
- non-"red" melee and ranged attacks that hit for a significant % of a maximum gear'ed players' total hitpoints
- attack speeds mechanics that synchronize at the beginning of an encounter (resulting in a massive "alpha strike") then diverge (which requires constant blocking, barring other CC)
Together, all these serve to make tanking little more than holding shift and stabbing, while crab walking around backwards and praying for an opportunity to use an encounter power, let alone mark, potions, or specials. Yes, it IS possible to tank, but it's not fun, and it's as much a function of the RNG as skill whether you are going to be successful... versus yard trash. I've started "pre using" abilities that buff DR BEFORE pulling packs (ie villain's menace), to make sure I survive the initial aggro blast. Starting to get carpal tunnel from holding down SHIFT for entire fights, with frantic drop-cast-re-SHIFT when an opportunity occurs or stamina runs out.
How to fix? There's tons of options, pick any one, or a combination:
- Drop mob damage down such that a single crit doesn't 1 shot a full health player with 110K+ hp and 50% DR.
- Get rid of crit on trash mobs.
- Change mob AI so that only "special" npcs actively try to gain combat advantage.
- Remove combat advantage vs. players when they are blocking.
- Remove armor penetration from non-boss mobs, or from non-red attacks.
- Allow "trash" npcs to have ONE of arpen, crit, or combat advantage, instead of all of them.
- Allow GFs to use hotbutton abilities while blocking.
- Add stun or knockback to GF atwills, to allow encounter/hotbutton abilities
- Add a 1 second extension to block after it's dropped, to enable encounter/hotbutton use.
etc.
Basically, anything to make GF tanking MORE skill based and LESS 1-shot bad luck/RNG blocking stab fests.
Shield slam moves you forward once NPC changes his position, for example to make its flanking action. I already added note that if shield slam released, it still takes 2 seconds to leave this state while being completely vulnerable to side/back attacks unless you use Lunging Strike etc to "reset" the prolonged animation.
My suggestion is to reduce time necessary for exit from shield slam mode and no forward moving should be applied when you don't have target ahead of you. At wills alone can do this, but with guard up please don't.
— (The unwritten rule)
This right here.
This makes the game flat out unfun. 3.4k GF that can't even use lunging strike to initiate without getting gibbed. Trying to use 2 cleave animations will end in my immediate death.
Spec: All
I wondered, should GF always have an extra passive DR rating from the front when the shield is equipped, in combat and not attacking? Looking at the animation, shield is never dropped when in combat, it's always facing the front.
This would not count as braced Block stance, so no CC immunity, or skills activated like Guarded Assault. It's just complimentary DR, that allows you some breathing room and flexability between power uses.
I always thought the second hit from the Cleave and Crushing Surge hit should count as having block up temporarily, enabling you to complete a combo in between hits by timing it. As it is with the new content, I am all for increased difficulty but theres just no breathing room lategame, and you barely dare to lift your finger from shift.
Not to mention, when do I get to guard attacks for people standing behind me as a GF? Please..put a protection area right behind the GF so they can intercept damage just by being present physically between enemy and ally.
Comment Topic: Synergy between Defence and Offence
With the increased difficulty of monster, the zero room for error on the Guardian's Fighter part who has to face groups head on, you have to keep track of all monster's animations and telegraphs and flanking manouvres.
But even if you see them coming, and have block up ...the time between using an encounter/daily/at-will safely is so minimal, that turtling and backpaddeling becomes mostly the only way to fight. This excessive defensive play reduces any other creative encounter combinations you could have before.
The Bonus DR on some of the offensive encounters was a good start, but I'de like to see more offensive potential between shield usage, and defensive potential with power usage. My suggestions has examples of that kind of idea.
Iron Warrior or Line Breaker Assault are good candidates to add some aoe cc.
— (The unwritten rule)
Villain's Menace is defective, therefore does not grand 100% CC immunity. Concussive Strike, Repel, Entangling Force, Roots, Shadow Opportunity, Spirit Breaker, and a few other powers/feats have pierced my Villain's Menace multiple times. I even have recorded footage.
Suggestion: Villain's Menace
GF's should be immune to CC while casting Villain's Menace. DO NOT take a shortcut by speeding up Villain's Menace animation! It's a GREAT animation, just make GF's CC immune WHILE casting.
Suggestion: Guard
Decrease the delay between a GF getting off the ground and being able to guard! I swear it takes YEARS for my GF to guard after standing on his feet.
Suggestion: Aggravating Strike
Players should be able to cancel the aggravating strike animation by simply letting go of shift! This encounter/attack has gotten thousands of GF's killed!
Don't worry, you are not the only tactician out there !
The thing is i agree with you guys for most of it, GF need a rework especially in pve
What i think the GF need :
- blocking AOE while you block from any direction (don't need to face the caster or center of aoe)
- Larger cone of block (not 360° but more lake 270° (not the behinf attacks but the sides are blocked) should help a lots)
- CON giving an Arm Pen resist, i personnaly hate any archer mobs with base attack doing 100k damage while not blocking (44,6% DR) so with this they should still do same damage on other player but something like 30k on GF should be enough to survive (archer are mostly in 3 per pack so 3x30k = 90k, still survivable while going for the aggro)
- Make, like someone said (sorry don't have time to quote you and search for your name (next time maybe)), a DR from the face of the player while he is not actively blocking, i'd say from the 10° pure face of player to 180° a % of different DR, face, add 40% DR to base DR, and side goes down to 10% (because you are a little less focused on them)
it wont make the non use of guard too powerfull, but still help using encounter ...
- OR if the one before seems OP, make the use of encounter/daily usable while blocking but with some malus on them (recharge time doubled, duration halved, bonus halved, damage halved, no gain of AP for some time ... anything should make it pretty balanced and still let the GF to use encounter without worrying about being one shooted by an archer you didn't see ...)
There is some possibilities ... But i think the team will work on it sometime and give us some more viability as a tank than before, we should be at least as much usefull in a team than a paladin tank (i've seen some totally unkillable, we shouldn't be as much unkillable as paladin (because we do more damage) but we need more survivability
We'll see ... Cya !