Kessel's retreat and it's difficulty.

rdh013 · May 2015

Hello,

Srry for any grammar mistakes i'm not English.

I'm a casual player who just got to level70 more then a week ago.
I've been playing this game from time to time starting in mod4 till now and loved it from the beginning.
I don't have any problem doing skirmishes at Dread ring or Masters of the hunt and i can solo the daily quests in IWD and WOD. I have all the boons unlocked except the last 2 from WOD.

So i thought to myself let's do Kessels retreat,it's only 1600 total item level required and since mine is 2314 i should be ok right? But not really,i was killed so fast like in 1 or 2 blows and i'm down. 1vs1 against a regular mob is mostly no problem but not easy. But when there is more then 1 the combat advantage they do seems insanely high.
I'm playing a GWF and i always loved the in the face fighting style,but in Kessel's retreat i'm running away from mobs making me feel like a coward,but i have no option in standing my ground here because i get killed so fast.

How can i make myself usefull in a party when i can't hold my ground and take some punches? I don't do any dps because i'm constantly running around the enemy dodging this and that while CW's,HR's for example can attack from far away.
Doesn't a GWF supposed to hold his ground certainly when i'm unstoppable?
I need to be in enemy face to do anything but the difference in output enemy dps between the Dread ring/Masters hunt or Kessel's retreat is so huge that i can't do it anymore the way i always been playing it,and i'm trying to increase my maximum HP which is 69.585 to begin with.

And then there is this lag making it impossible to dodge the red zones that kill me instantly. There are moments when i play and there is no lag making a huge difference when everything runs smooth. If Criptic want me to play a running GWF then maybe fix the lag if possible.
Also i noticed sometimes unstoppable is stuck and does not activate,this is a disaster for the GWF. And weapon master doesn't seem to stack 4 times. In fact i don't see it stacking up anymore where your name and head is displayed.

Anyways,do i need to adjust my tactics?...yeah obviously...but what is the best way to play Kessel and epic dungeons with my low item score? I feel like i'm a burden to the team more then i'm helpfull. How do i get better gear when i can't play Kessel's retreat or epic dungeons without dying so much? I don't even feel like queueing up for Kessel anymore because i don't want to die so many times. Don't want to wine and beg to my guild mates to ''carry'' me because i never did before and i just hate to do it. Although i'm in a guild and sometimes did dungeons with them in mod5 i have my own way to play and do the daily's and other stuff mainly solo because i'm limited in my time i can invest on a day or week. I don't try Tuern,eLoL or VT yet in mod6,if the difficulty is the same as Kessels then it's not for me at the moment. Malabog's castle i can't play because of terrible lag,i couldn't play it in mod5 and still can't don't know why. And in the chat box i sometimes read lot's of people getting kicked because of low item lv or not correct class.

So how am i supposed to get better gear? Through proffesions? I'm running alchemy,jewelcrafting,black ice shaping and leadership but it's taking forever.
Or PVP which i never played before? My GWF(destroyer) is PVE build not PVP,also i know GWF(sentinal) was boss in mod2 but got nerfed so why should i bother getting my *** kicked in PVP. I tried Tiamat one time few days back and just impossible at the moment it was a massacre. Like it was hard in mod 5 why increase the difficulty so much more?
And i played it a lot before mod6 with my gs of 17.500 and sometimes did really good always top 10 and sometimes top3(when we lost lol) But i miss it and miss my dungeons that i did before mod6,and i'm not sure what i'm supposed to be doing right now to get stronger.

Also i make less AD now then i did in mod5 and i'm trying to save up to buy r8 enchants to start with it's going slow and don't have the time to farm huge AD a day. I don't really have a problem with the increased difficulty although in some area's i personally find it's just over the top for solo/casual players.

I hate to say it i really do...but i'm starting to lose the fun i always had when playing this game.
But i'm not willing to give up because i invested a huge amount of time in this game.
I just need to adjust but i'm not sure how to do this the correct way?
And i want to spend/invest my time in a way that is sufficient and get better/higher item level.
What is the best way to get my item level up?
I always did dungeons/skirmishes to farm AD and the herald dragon runs(which i still do) to eventually buy stuff from AH. I still have the eternal blue gear.

blackxxwolf3 · May 2015

one word... spaces.... its so long i wont even read it. but ive beaten kessels legitimately many times its not hard as long as you have rank 7s and some epic gear. thats all you need. any player can get this.

rdh013 · May 2015

I have r7's,4 purple artifacts,elemental main(purple) with terror/vorpal(sometimes i switch),soulforged, and elemental off(blue),greater girdle of strenght(blue) and greater lathander cloak(blue),eternal blue set.
What can i say more...I'm having no problem in dread ring/masters of hunt but i die almost instantly in kessel,i find this strange.
Because it's saying 1600 item level. I didn't had a problem doing Kessel in mod5,now i die 10/20 times.
Takes the fun out of the game for me.

diogene0 · May 2015

Someone has to do crowd control so that GWFs can do damage. CWs or ranger are likely to provide the control you need. Sadly, the random queue gives you the leftovers (sorry guys

), ie people who either don't want to join a guild, don't want to use /lfg, or aren't accepted in /lfg. Pretty much hardcore soloists, people who never heard the word "build", and stuff like that. In two years i've seen once someone doing more damage than my control focused CW in pugs, so it tells a lot about the average player in there. I used to top the paingiver charts in mod 4 with my healer using healing spells and divine glow...

Usually, good players with decent gear avoid the public queue like plague, so drop your expectations, everyone will race for paingiver, including the cleric, and support from other classes will be non-existent.

rayrdan · May 2015

kessels is a dungeon at all effects now.
like every dungeon in mod 6 you get oneshotted regardless the class.
we still dont know if this kind of damage is working as intented or just a *who cares about mod 6 status, just release it and we will see later... maybe...or not*

diogene0 · May 2015

rayrdan wrote: »

kessels is a dungeon at all effects now.
like every dungeon in mod 6 you get oneshotted regardless the class.
we still dont know if this kind of damage is working as intented or just a *who cares about mod 6 status, just release it and we will see later... maybe...or not*

If 15-30k is a "one hit kill regardless of your class" then you seriously need to work on your gear. *shrug*

rayrdan · May 2015

diogene0 wrote: »

If 15-30k is a "one hit kill regardless of your class" then you seriously need to work on your gear. *shrug*

do you think i m doing dungeons? LOL
im geared more than enough i just heard what my guildmates say in guild chat

helpimblindinrl · May 2015

I haven't spent much time in Kessels but the few times I was in people ran it more or less like they did last mod, as in run and burn. The damage is a bit spikier like everywhere but not so much that you can't go mong mode through it.

Weird looking through that wall of text because I thought most of it would be Kessel related but its a smorgasbord of the usual complaints.

Anyway mired in that wall of text was the claim that a lot of his difficulty is lag which is entirely plausible given how janky the servers have been and that Tiamat is pretty much impossible which is true. He can't compete in pvp because his gear isn't up to it, he makes less ad now and upgrading the different professions takes forever. Oh and MC is lagging.

blackxxwolf3 · May 2015

rayrdan wrote: »

do you think i m doing dungeons? LOL
im geared more than enough i just heard what my guildmates say in guild chat

with blue leveling gear you should have at least 70k health. my hunter with pvp gear has 88k with full rank 7 radiants.

mehguy138 · May 2015

Didn't they set tank/healer requirements for skirmishes for this mod? Because lack of this is painful. If you have no DC or CW you're gonna wipe gazillion times. In a party like 2CW/HR/DC/whatever Kessel's is almost a walk in the park if you're at least half descent player.

pointsman · May 2015

Kessel's is hard for the casual average player.

You do need a good CW and it really helps to have a tank and healer in the party too.

I would work on getting your HP up, and only do Kessel's if you are in a group that has a tank and a healer.

rdh013 · May 2015

mehguy138 wrote: »

If you have no DC or CW you're gonna wipe gazillion times. In a party like 2CW/HR/DC/whatever Kessel's is almost a walk in the park

pointsman wrote: »

You do need a good CW and it really helps to have a tank and healer in the party too.

So GWF is redundant? Completely useless without the correct party to support me.
Lifesteal is useless,regen in combat...useless.
So without a DC i might as well kick myself from the party.
I understand some don't have a problem with Kessel which is great for them.
But i have a serious problem in progressing when my class is actually not needed.
I cannot tank/kill mobs anymore that attack DC or CW,which is a job well suited for the GWF.
On Neverwinter.gamepedia.com it says ''usually the best role for the Great Weapon Fighter is to focus on killing the adds''
I can't kill adds anymore...they kill me.

mehguy138 · May 2015

Attack ones that can be controlled and try to not use anything that generates additional threat. I've seen lots of very high geared GWFs dying from double barbarian swing, so try to avoid everything you can, it feels like defense is broken or isn't working correctly or mobs have huge ArP idk but even with overbuffed damage resistance you can be instakilled by trash mobs.

rdh013 · May 2015

mehguy138 wrote: »

Attack ones that can be controlled and try to not use anything that generates additional threat. I've seen lots of very high geared GWFs dying from double barbarian swing, so try to avoid everything you can,

Avoid everything with a GWF? When his role is to get close and kill mobs? We are armor class,half tankish/mostly dps so we suppose to take a hit.
Running around avoiding massive damage with lag is stressing me out,and dying 20 times is killing my buzz.

mehguy138 wrote: »

it feels like defense is broken or isn't working correctly or mobs have huge ArP idk but even with overbuffed damage resistance you can be instakilled by trash mobs.

Even when i start with Daring shout combined with bravery and warrior's courage doesn't seem to make any difference.
Trying to get unstoppable as fast as possible but the mobs take huge chunks of my temporary HP with one or two strikes leaving my healthbar wide open and then 1 or 2 strikes later i'm dead get resurrected by my soulforged and die again because the health potions are a joke.
Unstoppable used to be really reliable and always activated,but now sometimes doesn't activate.
My defense is around 4500,deflect chance 19.1%,damage resistance 21.1%.
Even when i drink a superior potion of fortification making my defense 5500 makes no difference.
What's the point in having these feats,skillpoints,potions other stuff when mobs can instakill me?

I have this feat called countless scars.
Each time i get struck i get 1% damage resistance,and this can stack up 15 times.
What good does this do when i get killed in two blows by a barbarian?
I have unlocked all boons except the pvp ones but it feels it doesn't matter in Kessel's retreat.

diogene0 · May 2015

rdh013 wrote: »

So GWF is redundant? Completely useless without the correct party to support me.
Lifesteal is useless,regen in combat...useless.
So without a DC i might as well kick myself from the party.
I understand some don't have a problem with Kessel which is great for them.
But i have a serious problem in progressing when my class is actually not needed.
I cannot tank/kill mobs anymore that attack DC or CW,which is a job well suited for the GWF.
On Neverwinter.gamepedia.com it says ''usually the best role for the Great Weapon Fighter is to focus on killing the adds''
I can't kill adds anymore...they kill me.

It's the top dps class, which means that in a way it's needed, but like any dps class, you need support from support classes. That's how MMOs work usually. Don't expect to be tanky, healing (yourself) and being top damage at the same time. You might pick one if these only.

rdh013 · May 2015

diogene0 wrote: »

It's the top dps class. Don't expect to be tanky, healing (yourself) and being top damage at the same time

I thought TR's or CW's were top dps in PVE?
When i play Dread ring or Masters of the hunt i mostly am top dps because i can hold my ground there but definitely not top dps in Kessel's retreat. There i'm more busy running and avoiding insane damage. I need to stand still to do damage.
But i don't find top dps'er always the most important thing in a party. It's about getting the job done for the rewards.
Although i am more focused on dps i did sacrifice a little dps for defense in some boons/feats and made my CON20,DEX23,STR26 when used the free respec. Also i went from sword master to iron vanguard because it's more solo friendly imo.

pointsman · May 2015

Well what exactly do you want?

Currently a typical 5-GWF party can't do the T1+ content because of all of the hard-hitting mobs. You can't just race through everything and kill everything and basically solo everything. We did that already, that was last mod. So now, you need to rely on support classes to help carry you through. You need a GF to hold aggro and a DC to heal you and a CW/HR to keep mobs controlled and rooted so that YOU can walk up to them and kill them without them killing you. In return, you help carry these other classes through by killing the mobs that would otherwise just eat them up. You're a part of a team here when you do things like Kessel's. You need them and they need you. What is the issue?

query523 · May 2015

You move out of the way for some of the attacks. Everyone has to do this. GFs even have to do this sometimes.

snotty · May 2015

I've run kessells retreat with my GWF many times since mod6, hell, I never ran it before mod6. That being said I started running it with less the 60khp, am not stacked with anything higher then R7s and I can tell you that it is doable for a GWF to run that without being godlike.

But like it or not you have to change your play style, face tanking is not an option for you now. I suggest you remember the 5 D's of dodgeball, Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge. I've run that dungeon with a lot of different party set ups, healer and tank are really nice to have but not an absolute must if and this is a big IF, you have people who are willing to listen, learn and work as a team.

Also, stop worrying about if you're top DPS or not. Personally I could a flying f**k if im top dps or not as long as I finish the dungeon without a full squad wipe every time we meet a group of mobs.

vordayn · May 2015

You've got to watch the animations of the barbarians' swing - they pack a punch. Usually you can time it to side step out of the way when they swing, and go in for the kill after this animation ends.

Also, I second that having a good controller (CW or HR) that can lock down targets and prevent them from attacking is almost essential in Kessel's, unless you have the tank/healer combo that will take the aggro.

The worst though are the mage's bolt and rider's spears, they are not so easily dodgeable.

rdh013 · May 2015

pointsman wrote: »

Well what exactly do you want?

Well,personally i want my game back that i loved to play before. Since that is not going to happen i have to adjust.
So if they want me to Dodge, Duck, Dip, Dive and Dodge again maybe fix something like i don't know...the lag maybe?
Also unstoppable is stuck sometimes,making it not easier for me.
And there are people using these exploits killing the entire purpose of increasing the difficulty.

query523 wrote: »

You move out of the way for some of the attacks. Everyone has to do this. GFs even have to do this sometimes.

Yeah,GF's getting one-shotted through their shield? What is up with that? Must mean the enemy does insane damage?
Can a DC heal a GF when he get's one-shotted through his shield?
If a GF get's one-shotted through his shield then who's fault is it? DC for not healing him? GF for standing in wrong place?
Or Criptic for making these insane damage outputs that pisses everybody off.

snotty wrote: »

Also, stop worrying about if you're top DPS or not.

I don't care about top dps,never did before...i just want the job to be done.
This build i have now is not full dps. Before mod6 i went full dps,after it i changed some things.

vordayn wrote: »

You've got to watch the animations of the barbarians' swing - they pack a punch. Usually you can time it to side step out of the way when they swing, and go in for the kill after this animation ends.
The worst though are the mage's bolt and rider's spears, they are not so easily dodgeable.

I will try it,and will get better at it if i keep playing it.
But am i having more fun then before...no not really.

rdh013 · May 2015

You know,i was thinking to invest some real money into my character to make it stronger.
But when it is forced like this i ain't going to put in one single dime.
Maybe if they had released some actual new content i would have.
If you are a GF and invested real money in it,to eventually see your character get one-shotted through shield i would be furious.

ravenan · May 2015

Right now tanking is kiting. U cant stand in red even with shield up. You must get of the red w8 till all mobs do there attacks and then you can put shield down to do buffs and tounts. And then shield up get of reds and kite again marking now end then. This in every dung. And you realy need only GF for t1 and skirms. Ap gain on shield block is enough to heal all dmg trown at you without controling or healing. So you realy dont have to have CW or HR in team to do it quick and painless. T1 and skirms are pretty much doable in any team comp. But in my teams theres allways 1 competent GF... me :rolleyes:

tvcity · May 2015

have the same problems as the op, don't even feel like playing my gwf anymore.....just rolling with my dc and paladin for now..

ravenan · May 2015

GWF is the best dps right now, doing twice CWs dmg. Try to play with maxed ap gain and steel defence if u want less skillbased play and more in your face tanking.

kahfa · May 2015

wow, everything anyone suggest is being quickly shut down by OP, everything he does is right and every single advice given is not entertained. This is not a post asking for help, this is a post blaming the game for being too hard.

just a reminder though, what's probably wrong with you is execution considering a 1k iLvL GWF can solo Biggrins, which is a lot harder for a 1k than Kessel's is for a 2.3k

tvcity · May 2015

kahfa wrote: »

wow, everything anyone suggest is being quickly shut down by OP, everything he does is right and every single advice given is not entertained. This is not a post asking for help, this is a post blaming the game for being too hard.

just a reminder though, what's probably wrong with you is execution considering a 1k iLvL GWF can solo Biggrins, which is a lot harder for a 1k than Kessel's is for a 2.3k

can you please post the video of you doing it with 1k iLvL please....

leafus · May 2015

I thought I saw it was stated they are looking at the overall difficulty. I'm guessing that means they have at least considered difficulty an issue. Personally I think Kessel's is impossible and have seen groups wipe after wipe. If they see logins go down, less zen purchased, etc they will make a change. Always always always follow the $. You will find your answer there.

kahfa · May 2015

leafus wrote: »

I thought I saw it was stated they are looking at the overall difficulty. I'm guessing that means they have at least considered difficulty an issue. Personally I think Kessel's is impossible and have seen groups wipe after wipe. If they see logins go down, less zen purchased, etc they will make a change. Always always always follow the $. You will find your answer there.

i completed it a lot of times so it is not "impossible

tvcity wrote: »

can you please post the video of you doing it with 1k iLvL please....

it's not mine, laz did it, i don't play GWF, i play HR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo6ldYNvuhw

rdh013 · May 2015

kahfa wrote: »

wow, everything anyone suggest is being quickly shut down by OP, everything he does is right and every single advice given is not entertained. This is not a post asking for help, this is a post blaming the game for being too hard

Sorry i'm not sure to understand what exactly you meant here?
Being not English,so some things you will have to explain in different words.
So i'm the OP probably? like in topic starter?...''everything anyone suggest is being quickly shut down by OP''
What exactly am i shutting down here? And ''every single advice given is not entertained''...not entertained,please explain this?
And no this is both a post asking for help how to do Kessel and to gear up,and blaming the game for being to hard.

As for Biggrin's tomb...i steamroll through it,without dying no problem here.
I can solo IWD and WOD but i'm having serious problems doing Kessel which is part of IWD and a skirmish. It's a skirmish with the difficulty of a t1 dungeon,that's a bit much imho.
So i'm stuck with Masters of the hunt/Dread ring that i did hundreds of times before mod6,or i choose to play Kessel and die 20 times trying. The difference between them is to much. What if you are a beginning player with no boons unlocked and barely a item lv score of 1600? No chance for them in Kessel.
I did manage to complete Kessel,but don't ask how. My party got killed so many times,it's just not funny anymore.
And it's not just me who get's killed fast but my whole party.

rdh013 · May 2015

kahfa wrote: »

i completed it a lot of times so it is not "impossible
it's not mine, laz did it, i don't play GWF, i play HR

This is not about Biggrin's tomb and in no way a comparison to Kessel.
And i have completed Kessel to,that's not the problem.
If you keep trying you eventually will complete it,the problem is dying a gazillion times.
I never had to buy so much injury kits before. I don't no about you,but dying 20 times in a skirmish is not fun for me.

Kessel's retreat and it's difficulty.

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