Personally, I use Storm Pillar combined with Ray of Frost, or MM if I am just trying to go full out DPS.
I also use Destructive Wizardry instead of Tempest Magic.
I also only put 1 point in Fight On since I use Spell Twisting. Prior to Spell Twisting, I was a big fan of Fight On.
That being said, Ironzerg's build is excellent. I have considered dropping Destructive Wizardry for Tempest Magic, since Tempest Magic is automatic & doesn't require a full charge of SP (which can seem like a long time when you are charging it).
I think you'll get better overall DPS using Chilling Cloud than Storm Pillar. Plus CC has the bonus of chance to AOE chill thanks to the artifact weapon bonus. I also think CC outperforms MM in single target DPS (and helps make sure chill stacks stay at 6 on bosses).
That, and taking the time to charge up a full strike of Storm Pillar is likely to be a DPS loss, too. With spell twisting (and fight on) encounters come off CD so fast, you barely have time to get a second or so of an at-will in each rotation. That's why I took points out of Reaper's Touch and put them in Energy Recovery...Energy Recovery is still a bad feat, but Reaper's Touch is terrible. Getting a few thousand temp HP might very rarely save your life, so who knows?
Nobody should get Shadowtouch and Elven Ferocity since their Internal CoolDown is beyond one minute.
I agree 100%. When I respec'd I switched the boons to the ones that heal instead. They are far, far, far more useful in this build than 20k extra damage once per minute.
What are your current companions for Mod 6 because I know in one of the forum posts you talked about the Acolyte of Kelemvor so have any of your others changed or did you just switch that in for one?
I'm hoping to have the companion piece redone today. But for now I've dropped my augment in favor of the Acolyte. The rest of the pets are situational. DPS loadout is now the Int Devourer (even though I'll still need to test to confirm it's bonus), Blink Dog, Fire Archon, Air Archon and Acolyte. I've also had perceived success with the Will'o Wisp and Cantankerous Mage (for the CC bonus of 40%), and using the Sylph for the 50% CC Resist on fights like Lostmauth was exceptional.
Again, the plan for companions is also to do a little more of a "top picks" with pros and cons to each, than just a straight "use these all the time" list.
I actually like Storm Pillar because you can use it out of combat to pre-proc Chaos Magic or activate Spell Twisting (get the artifact recharged).
Also, at full charge, it hits about like an encounter. If you blow your entire encounter rotation at once, it leaves time to charge SP before the encounters come back up. That being said, I am not very good at keeping the 5% dmg proc permanent all the time.
I will say that Chilling Cloud with the Artifact main hand chill ability is almost as good at stacking chills as RoF, and I really didn't expect the chill stack range of it to be so large. Seems to be about as big as the IT circle. I may start using it instead of RoF.
Hey Iron, did you use this set up in PVP at all? I do okay sometimes with it, but the majority of the time, it's just eh. Any recommendations? I usually switch my suddenstorm power with Entangling force for more control, any recommendations? Also, I have not been able to convince myself to use Steal time over the other options i.e. suddenstorm, Conduite of ice, icy terrain, and chill strike, why do you keep it in rotation over those ones? The whole pvp eh thing may be because I only have a couple of pvp gears and only one piece of the HV set thus far as well haha.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited April 2015
Sudden Storm and Steal Time aren't very good for PvP.
I tested abyss of chaos and it procs a lot doing around 1-2k damage each time. Might not be as bad as people think, i mean it adds up to be quite a lot if your spamming conduit and IT.
I tested abyss of chaos and it procs a lot doing around 1-2k damage each time. Might not be as bad as people think, i mean it adds up to be quite a lot if your spamming conduit and IT.
I was getting around 2k - 4k dps out of it. That being said, I think I will take the 5% crit over it on the next respec for the extra StormSpell & LM procs.
I'm not a huge fan of sudden storm, and i felt like when i equipped chilling presence for extra crit chance, that 50% crit was a bit overkill and it would have been better to focus my stat or something elsewhere like arm pen...
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited April 2015
Working on editting in a little more thorough discussion of the powers today.
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
I'm not a huge fan of sudden storm, and i felt like when i equipped chilling presence for extra crit chance, that 50% crit was a bit overkill and it would have been better to focus my stat or something elsewhere like arm pen...
You need both. About 7k Armor Pen, and then the rest in Critical Strike.
And I agree with Angrymanagement, and had a similar experience. t AoC ended up being about 3-5% of my damage, and I would prefer that be done with extra critical strike, plus the bonus to the group, which should enhance the group's performance. Hence I opted for Uncertain Allegiance over AoC.
You need both. About 7k Armor Pen, and then the rest in Critical Strike.
And I agree with Angrymanagement, and had a similar experience. t AoC ended up being about 3-5% of my damage, and I would prefer that be done with extra critical strike, plus the bonus to the group, which should enhance the group's performance. Hence I opted for Uncertain Allegiance over AoC.
I'm sorry, I should have specified... I'm playing on Xbox One, but I use the guides here because they teach me so much, and they are so well written!
So far I was able to get my armor pen up to 1k, I am having trouble getting my dark enchants past level 5. I don't have the artifact weapon yet but plan on getting the chill orb cause I havent really seen so many artifacts... I could soon farm up ancient gear from castle never, my gear score is almost 11k, I would like to see it go up an extra 1 or 2k. I am noticing my damage go up from increasing my armor pen, I have not had to reduce my crit chance.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited May 2015
Getting armor penetration above 2400 is going to be your #1 DPS increase over any other stat. Gem up if you have to, look for rings/necks/belts on the AH.
Investing in an augment pet might be a good idea, too.
You need both. About 7k Armor Pen, and then the rest in Critical Strike.
And I agree with Angrymanagement, and had a similar experience. t AoC ended up being about 3-5% of my damage, and I would prefer that be done with extra critical strike, plus the bonus to the group, which should enhance the group's performance. Hence I opted for Uncertain Allegiance over AoC.
Just curious how much power do you run with these days?
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited May 2015
I don't care about power right now. Armor Penetration and Critical Strike is what I'm focused on.
I'm running all Radiant/Bonding for offensive slots, rank 10s 1 pbonding, 2 gbonding.
With 2 piece T2 chest drops, 2 piece Prot Seal gear, 2 power/arm pen crafted rings, LM set at blue level, 3 legendary artifacts, & Elemental Fire set barely purple, I have the following:
18,347 Power
57.3% crit + 5% more after crit + Chaos Magic procs
60.3% resistance ignored
My power will drop a little bit more when I get the other 2 pieces of Prot Seal gear, but crit will go up.
Just did my 1st dungeon run with CWs with T Feytouched weapon enchants. Have to say those blow Vorpal out of the water currently. LM set has nothing on it currently.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited May 2015
That's interesting. I've been looking at the new enchants, but I'm not going to make something until we get a 2x RP weekend.
So quick question, does the AOE damage steal affect stack on you for 18%x3, or does it just buff you once while debuffing three enemies (instead of the normal 1).
That's interesting. I've been looking at the new enchants, but I'm not going to make something until we get a 2x RP weekend.
So quick question, does the AOE damage steal affect stack on you for 18%x3, or does it just buff you once while debuffing three enemies (instead of the normal 1).
Honestly, I couldn't say. Would love to get one of these on test. I have 2 perfects on test (from many mods ago), but would need 2 more for transcended.
I can say there is something giving massive damage boosts. I can say the average damage of one of their Disintegrates was about 4 or 5 times my average, and boss DPS was more than 3 times mine.
I am guessing it is stacking & may not have an activation CD???
Below is an example of the DPS difference.
Granted both CWs were better geared than me, but I have gone against legendary 70 weapons previously a few times and still came out ahead.
This was a 224 second fight. The only debuff on the boss (excluding the start of the fight) was RoE.
The green line is me with a low 59.9k DPS including dead time (13.4 million damage on boss). I died around 165 or so. The red line that spiked hardest was another CW that died around 45 and was back for adds at the end (with 15.2million damage in probably under 60sec of dps time on boss). The Blue line was another CW and the one that ruled the overall DPS in that dungeon run (47 million damage on boss).
okay this build is so bad. im putting out 8m less damage in dungeons with this build lmfao wtf. waste of 500 zen
crits build is so much better
It's 300 zen for a full respec, a bit over 100k AD for feats/boon respec, & I might suggest you need to work on your rotations.
I've still been bouncing around builds, but after switching back to renegade from a chain freeze spec, my DPS dropped a lot.
After quite a few runs in renegade, it was back up to where it should be.
For me, the Skirmishes are pretty good practice. Just act like it is a T2 and you can't get hit from any mob, and focus on rotations. Also, the groups you get in are often very thankful for the help when you just about solo the skirmish. I try to break 20million or 24million damage on the skirmishes. If there are other well geared/feated/good players in there, obviously it impacts your damage output. Most of the people I see in skirmishes are not well geared (in leveling gear), potentially have bad specs, or just haven't ever seen what a class is truly capable of.
I personally like Storm Pillar & generally feat it for dmg buff.
For T2s, I prefer to open with Storm Pillar full charge, followed by dodge, followed by OF, followed by Sigil of the Devoted, followed by IT, followed by COI, followed by SP quick cast or CC 1 cast, followed by ST, followed by Sudden Storm, followed by SP quick cast or CC 1 cast.
You are going to have to mix some dodges into that rotation. IMO, Renegade requires higher mobility than Thaum/Opp or Opp, and jump casting can help the DPS significantly.
At times I am running shield which replaces Sudden Storm (I usually keep ST for control) on AOE.
It varies some on single target, but the highest DPS I can generate comes from COI, IT, RoE, Disintegrate, in which case put a priority on Disintegrate then RoE if your COI & IT are still ticking.
Also, don't forget to keep activating Spell Twisting. You can activate it after every encounter, but usually activating after every 2 seems to work fine.
Ah, not sure about xbox, I was referring to the 70 build.
Actually, that Xbox build he has listed is only 2 feats different than I ran in Mod 5 (lvl 60). I took Pretidigation & Masterful Arcane Theft instead of Focused Wizardry & Bitter Cold out of personal preference. And no point in Controling Action (was in either Wizards Wrath or Arcane Enhancement - dont remember which).
I should also add that I was running just over 50% crit unbuffed in final gear.
Also, it was a build I had explicitly focused on the CN - Dracolich fight.
you see im on xbox. so im playing mod 4. i dont think this guide works for it
I've been hearing that a lot, so I'm just going to close shop on the Xbox part. I wasn't aware of any changes on the Xbox that would've affected the Mod 5 part of this guide, but apparently there's some interactions going on that I don't know about, nor can I test. I don't even own an Xbox, so there's no way for me to verify anything.
So in order to avoid confusion here, we'll just focus the discussion around the PC going forward.
Is going for spell twisting a personal choice or have you tested it to see if it is truly better than just going pure renegade?
IMO Spell Twisting is hands down the best tier 3 paragon power.....and since the devs added the new feats at tier 3, you can focus one tree such as renegade & still get Spell Twisting.
I do miss having my Steal Time hit like a freight train, & Abyss is actually a pretty good ability I think, not to mention who wouldn't love 15% crit severity.....but yea the encounter spam alone justifies Spell Twisting to me, and the added effects on artifacts is icing on the cake.
At some point there may be a change to Spell Twisting, but who knows.
Comments
I think you'll get better overall DPS using Chilling Cloud than Storm Pillar. Plus CC has the bonus of chance to AOE chill thanks to the artifact weapon bonus. I also think CC outperforms MM in single target DPS (and helps make sure chill stacks stay at 6 on bosses).
That, and taking the time to charge up a full strike of Storm Pillar is likely to be a DPS loss, too. With spell twisting (and fight on) encounters come off CD so fast, you barely have time to get a second or so of an at-will in each rotation. That's why I took points out of Reaper's Touch and put them in Energy Recovery...Energy Recovery is still a bad feat, but Reaper's Touch is terrible. Getting a few thousand temp HP might very rarely save your life, so who knows?
I agree 100%. When I respec'd I switched the boons to the ones that heal instead. They are far, far, far more useful in this build than 20k extra damage once per minute.
I'm hoping to have the companion piece redone today. But for now I've dropped my augment in favor of the Acolyte. The rest of the pets are situational. DPS loadout is now the Int Devourer (even though I'll still need to test to confirm it's bonus), Blink Dog, Fire Archon, Air Archon and Acolyte. I've also had perceived success with the Will'o Wisp and Cantankerous Mage (for the CC bonus of 40%), and using the Sylph for the 50% CC Resist on fights like Lostmauth was exceptional.
Again, the plan for companions is also to do a little more of a "top picks" with pros and cons to each, than just a straight "use these all the time" list.
Also, at full charge, it hits about like an encounter. If you blow your entire encounter rotation at once, it leaves time to charge SP before the encounters come back up. That being said, I am not very good at keeping the 5% dmg proc permanent all the time.
I will say that Chilling Cloud with the Artifact main hand chill ability is almost as good at stacking chills as RoF, and I really didn't expect the chill stack range of it to be so large. Seems to be about as big as the IT circle. I may start using it instead of RoF.
I was getting around 2k - 4k dps out of it. That being said, I think I will take the 5% crit over it on the next respec for the extra StormSpell & LM procs.
You need both. About 7k Armor Pen, and then the rest in Critical Strike.
And I agree with Angrymanagement, and had a similar experience. t AoC ended up being about 3-5% of my damage, and I would prefer that be done with extra critical strike, plus the bonus to the group, which should enhance the group's performance. Hence I opted for Uncertain Allegiance over AoC.
I'm sorry, I should have specified... I'm playing on Xbox One, but I use the guides here because they teach me so much, and they are so well written!
So far I was able to get my armor pen up to 1k, I am having trouble getting my dark enchants past level 5. I don't have the artifact weapon yet but plan on getting the chill orb cause I havent really seen so many artifacts... I could soon farm up ancient gear from castle never, my gear score is almost 11k, I would like to see it go up an extra 1 or 2k. I am noticing my damage go up from increasing my armor pen, I have not had to reduce my crit chance.
Investing in an augment pet might be a good idea, too.
Just curious how much power do you run with these days?
With 2 piece T2 chest drops, 2 piece Prot Seal gear, 2 power/arm pen crafted rings, LM set at blue level, 3 legendary artifacts, & Elemental Fire set barely purple, I have the following:
18,347 Power
57.3% crit + 5% more after crit + Chaos Magic procs
60.3% resistance ignored
My power will drop a little bit more when I get the other 2 pieces of Prot Seal gear, but crit will go up.
Just did my 1st dungeon run with CWs with T Feytouched weapon enchants. Have to say those blow Vorpal out of the water currently. LM set has nothing on it currently.
So quick question, does the AOE damage steal affect stack on you for 18%x3, or does it just buff you once while debuffing three enemies (instead of the normal 1).
I have ~1700 GS and just get kicked out of dungeon queues for not having 2K gear score.
And there's no other gear left unless I farm IWD for 5000000000 black ice to get a pvp set.
Honestly, I couldn't say. Would love to get one of these on test. I have 2 perfects on test (from many mods ago), but would need 2 more for transcended.
I can say there is something giving massive damage boosts. I can say the average damage of one of their Disintegrates was about 4 or 5 times my average, and boss DPS was more than 3 times mine.
I am guessing it is stacking & may not have an activation CD???
Below is an example of the DPS difference.
Granted both CWs were better geared than me, but I have gone against legendary 70 weapons previously a few times and still came out ahead.
This was a 224 second fight. The only debuff on the boss (excluding the start of the fight) was RoE.
The green line is me with a low 59.9k DPS including dead time (13.4 million damage on boss). I died around 165 or so. The red line that spiked hardest was another CW that died around 45 and was back for adds at the end (with 15.2million damage in probably under 60sec of dps time on boss). The Blue line was another CW and the one that ruled the overall DPS in that dungeon run (47 million damage on boss).
It's 300 zen for a full respec, a bit over 100k AD for feats/boon respec, & I might suggest you need to work on your rotations.
I've still been bouncing around builds, but after switching back to renegade from a chain freeze spec, my DPS dropped a lot.
After quite a few runs in renegade, it was back up to where it should be.
For me, the Skirmishes are pretty good practice. Just act like it is a T2 and you can't get hit from any mob, and focus on rotations. Also, the groups you get in are often very thankful for the help when you just about solo the skirmish. I try to break 20million or 24million damage on the skirmishes. If there are other well geared/feated/good players in there, obviously it impacts your damage output. Most of the people I see in skirmishes are not well geared (in leveling gear), potentially have bad specs, or just haven't ever seen what a class is truly capable of.
For T2s, I prefer to open with Storm Pillar full charge, followed by dodge, followed by OF, followed by Sigil of the Devoted, followed by IT, followed by COI, followed by SP quick cast or CC 1 cast, followed by ST, followed by Sudden Storm, followed by SP quick cast or CC 1 cast.
You are going to have to mix some dodges into that rotation. IMO, Renegade requires higher mobility than Thaum/Opp or Opp, and jump casting can help the DPS significantly.
At times I am running shield which replaces Sudden Storm (I usually keep ST for control) on AOE.
It varies some on single target, but the highest DPS I can generate comes from COI, IT, RoE, Disintegrate, in which case put a priority on Disintegrate then RoE if your COI & IT are still ticking.
Also, don't forget to keep activating Spell Twisting. You can activate it after every encounter, but usually activating after every 2 seems to work fine.
Actually, that Xbox build he has listed is only 2 feats different than I ran in Mod 5 (lvl 60). I took Pretidigation & Masterful Arcane Theft instead of Focused Wizardry & Bitter Cold out of personal preference. And no point in Controling Action (was in either Wizards Wrath or Arcane Enhancement - dont remember which).
I should also add that I was running just over 50% crit unbuffed in final gear.
Also, it was a build I had explicitly focused on the CN - Dracolich fight.
I've been hearing that a lot, so I'm just going to close shop on the Xbox part. I wasn't aware of any changes on the Xbox that would've affected the Mod 5 part of this guide, but apparently there's some interactions going on that I don't know about, nor can I test. I don't even own an Xbox, so there's no way for me to verify anything.
So in order to avoid confusion here, we'll just focus the discussion around the PC going forward.
I do miss having my Steal Time hit like a freight train, & Abyss is actually a pretty good ability I think, not to mention who wouldn't love 15% crit severity.....but yea the encounter spam alone justifies Spell Twisting to me, and the added effects on artifacts is icing on the cake.
At some point there may be a change to Spell Twisting, but who knows.