What pays this games rent? (You don't need nearly as much gear to complete dungeons)Pvpiers buying Zen to gear up
PvE is simply the free way to gear up, don't delude yourself, this game exists to make money and wouldn't make nearly as much without PvP
Name 1 dungeon that has true replay content after you have max gear
PvP is supreme and infinitely changing and superior in skill level required to be the best
Nobody cares if your CW did 500k more damage then me at the end of a dungeon, the only thing people care about is the gear, which with the addition of the drow set, you'll see people leaving pve behind since it will undoubtedly be BiS for almost every class
I'm back.
Now, don't turn this into a PvE vs PvP argument, dude.
Let's talk about *your K/D ratio*. Apparently you're NOT doing the "hide to inflate your K/D" and yet your K/D is at a staggering 2287/43 from 171 total matches. You're from Absolute, so surely you fight pure premades all the time, and you're telling me that fighting the best of the best, a good 1 month into mod 5, you haven't even died 50 times.Then you have the nerve to say people can easily find you in stealth.
Please tell all these fine people here how you think you deserve all that.
Please tell all these fine people here how you think you deserve all that.
Lmao I don't know what your trying to prove dude? My K/D has been 25+ in every module, and always started out at 100's to 200's plus, Do I deserve that!? Yes I do, because I actually practice. Similiarily, HR's were also able to obtain 20+ K/DS in other modules as well. Bringing me up is IRRELEVANT, and dosen't support the stealth reveal arguement what so ever.
In addition, do you know the amount of work I put into my builds to min max my survivability
do you know the amount of work anyone puts into their K/D to sustain that level
You don't know me, and in fact, no one knows you, so where do you come off calling people liars and insulting the skill behind their play
You sir put a big smack on the face to anyone who gives a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about PvP in this game.
also just pointing it out, according to the polls, over 68% of the community that voted agrees stealth reveal isn't going to be fair, yet you still persist why?
100% crit is the issue
My survivability isn't attributed to stealth, it's attributed to the fact I killed everything before they had a chance to even Look for me
Learn to play, and stop trying to break the TR's only survivability trait
In my opinion perma-stealth is bad for the game. Fighting someone you cant see most of the fight is boring as hell. Running around on a point trying to find someone is also boring and the fight is one-sided. At least as a CW. Its really annoying that we need to slot stealtime/icy terrain to even have the smallest chance against a TR.
In mod4 at least we had a chance against a TR because they didn't have both damage and stealth but in mod5 the fight is over in just a few seconds most of the time and there is no time to fight back.
So perma-stealth needs to be gone and if TR dies to fast out of stealth they needs some buffs in surviving outside the stealth. The damage needs a nerf too ofc.
permastealth is toxic to gameplay and thats the main reason i think it should be changed, yes you can find them, yes you could fight them if they fixed damage, but
1)its still annoying to have to swap most encounters to inferior ones for 1 class just so you can aoe
2)reducing damage would make tr worse for pve, and hurt more in pve than in pvp
3)complete invisibility is a bs in multiplayer
just like riki in dota has fade time(at least thats how i remember him from original dota, havent played dota for ages)
also just pointing it out, according to the polls, over 68% of the community that voted agrees stealth reveal isn't going to be fair, yet you still persist why?
You call that 68% of community? Lol! Put the pool in gameplay discussions forum and we'll see about that. Now anyone can invite his friendlist to this corner of the forum and make fake results.
when you search for a tr in prior mods you had to be also scared of getting hit by duel flurry from bilethorn trs. But not you have the be afraid of a cc's and hard hitting at-wills. The only other class that can use it's defense 100% of the time is gf but he can not dmg from using it. The faster casting or dazing strike was another buff i wanted and thought tr's needed but they got way to much things for the kind of stealth they have in this game. That is the big thing. To much dmg and utility while having the highest defensive mechanic.
Why is this so hard for people to understand? Every class in this game is, at least, a little ****ed up. When trying to close the gap between classes, ****ing up a core class feature is asinine. Adjust a bit? Okay, but for every nerf to stealth a TR should receive compensatory survival options. As things look now, what is the easiest problem to fix? 100% crit coupled with piercing damage. Clean that up and you don't have to **** with stealth. **** with stealth and you create even more of a mess.
i don't get it as well. so many complaints are caused by the 100% crit but nobody agrees with us.
guaranteed 1-shot execution/lashing? 100% crit
gloaming cut hitting hard? 100% crit
sab piercing damage? boosted by 100% crit
So much frustation in this thread I pity you imbeciles..... dont you get it the devs doesnt care about balance they make something nice then destroy it after a couple of weeks so what are going to do? buy retraining token... easy money :rolleyes: now all of you are victims except me
Game Over for all of you Devs win they go home rich *evil laugh wahaha bwahaha wahaha bwahaha!
Lmao I don't know what your trying to prove dude? My K/D has been 25+ in every module, and always started out at 100's to 200's plus, Do I deserve that!? Yes I do, because I actually practice. Similiarily, HR's were also able to obtain 20+ K/DS in other modules as well. Bringing me up is IRRELEVANT, and dosen't support the stealth reveal arguement what so ever.
So, bringing this up is irrelevant? This entire thread is you complaining about the stealth reveal, saying that it would lessen your defenses. This would mean that your # of deaths would rise, which is exactly what is needed.
In addition, do you know the amount of work I put into my builds to min max my survivability
I dunno if coming to the forums to defend blatant brokenness should be considered that. Stealth can still have high survivability, just don't attack anything that can attack back, or don't attack at all. In any case, you gained 2 more rolls in mod 5, you should be fine. These are long distance rolls, too.
do you know the amount of work anyone puts into their K/D to sustain that level
Far less than any other class, which is the point.
You don't know me, and in fact, no one knows you, so where do you come off calling people liars and insulting the skill behind their play
I wouldn't want be known for complaining about broken abilities being balanced. Nor would I want rumors of exploitation around me.
You sir put a big smack on the face to anyone who gives a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about PvP in this game.
So, I guess caring about balance is a smack in the face to you, then? Not surprising seeing that the only classes you seem to enjoy playing are TR, HR, and CW, classes known to be stronger than others.
also just pointing it out, according to the polls, over 68% of the community that voted agrees stealth reveal isn't going to be fair, yet you still persist why?
Poll the majority of the population. I guarantee you if they did that, TR's would be nerfed even harder. Bringing guildmates to this *small* subsection of the forums for a poll doesn't do much for your case. Like Iyon there.
100% crit is the issue
No, I can be fine with the crit. TR's need to be lethal, they just need to be able to smacked down too. Hiding in stealth 100% of the time prevents that, so they're fixing that. In any case, if you remove this crit, you destroy PvE TR, and that's bad.
My survivability isn't attributed to stealth, it's attributed to the fact I killed everything before they had a chance to even Look for me
If this change won't affect your survivability, why are you complaining and arguing that it will? Stop being absolutely convoluted.
Learn to play, and stop trying to break the TR's only survivability trait
Ok, learn to play when you can be hit back. Oh wait, JUST ONE LINE AGO, YOU SAID YOUR SURVIVABILITY IS IN YOUR DAMAGE. I GUESS THIS WONT AFFECT YOU.
i don't get it as well. so many complaints are caused by the 100% crit but nobody agrees with us.
guaranteed 1-shot execution/lashing? 100% crit
gloaming cut hitting hard? 100% crit
sab piercing damage? boosted by 100% crit
1 shot execution has been turned down with the 20% nerf. Lashing will still hit hard, but it wont really 1 shot (unless executioner) and the enemy can now counter.
You can land gloamings, but once again, the enemy can now counter.
Sab piercing damage is boosted by crit, yes, but now your enemy can counter. This is necessary.
If a TR gloaming cuts you, he's close enough to land bullcharge or boar or fill in the blank
isuuck2 will testify to that
the dailies have been adressed
and I haven't heard any top level players ever complain that they can't catch a tr
So question
How many TR's have killed you to make you hate the class so much, and why do you refuse to practice to get better? and why must TR work harder then every class and have a next to useless tab that only exists to buff our damage (which will get us killed) on top of the fact that
NEWS FLASH! Even with this stealth nerf bud, they'll still nerf damage, your leaving the TR useless, and your lack of expierence about high end premades fuels your arguments.
In fact, you sound no better then a pug on day 1 with all this stealth Q.Q
I killed 2k+ since mod 5 hit live my TR screwed every class and I dont mind changing my build I will always find a way to make your lives miserable. Thank you for sending me messages of frustration and hate after I mop the floor with your corpses:cool:
If a TR gloaming cuts you, he's close enough to land bullcharge or boar or fill in the blank
I know you think you're skilled, but have you fought other skilled TR's on a class that isn't invisible? There are some that can time Gloaming-> roll that makes them immune to any counter. They still have Dazing->something combo that they can land and just walk away.
isuuck2 will testify to that
Ok.
the dailies have been adressed
True.
and I haven't heard any top level players ever complain that they can't catch a tr
Ask around.
So question
How many TR's have killed you to make you hate the class so much, and why do you refuse to practice to get better? and why must TR work harder then every class and have a next to useless tab that only exists to buff our damage (which will get us killed) on top of the fact that
One, you presume that I haven't practiced. As a DC, you only have 2 main tools to fighting a stealth TR, and those are Chains and Sunburst. If you miss either one, you lose. If you walk into the fight with no divinity, a good TR will just use attacks and immediately dodge so you will have almost 0 chance to regain divinity. If you lay down chains, they can simply counter by rolling into it which negates the damage and continue on in stealth. If you use sunburst, congratulations, you did mediocre damage and knocked them back, but they're stealth so you can't even follow through. Not to mention, as soon as these are on CD, you're nothing but a kill to them, and there's always ITC to deal with.
You will also die horribly trying to use these abilities on anything other than a TR.
Now, stop saying that it only exists to buff your damage. If you attack nothing, you're stealthed. If you don't attack your target for 2 seconds, you go back to full stealth.
NEWS FLASH! Even with this stealth nerf bud, they'll still nerf damage, your leaving the TR useless, and your lack of expierence about high end premades fuels your arguments.
Yeah ok, I guess you want to perpetually lock down the enemy team by having them send 2 to wherever the TR is capping. Or, just facerolling a win with 2 TR's on the team since they can virtually 2v1 any class on live.
I guess it's just too hard for you to work in a new node rotation with these changes? Or make tactical combat decisions?
In any case, you'll be able to make this point *if* they decide to tone down damage. As of right now, they've announced nothing on this front.
In fact, you sound no better then a pug on day 1 with all this stealth Q.Q
So, you can't address the statistics I presented. You ignore the strategy changes I propose. You ignore the existing combos that will still carry over into the new changes.
So I guess calling me a PuG is the best you can do at this point.
I think that most people are trying to solve this PvP issue the complicated way and make it a lot less fun for everyone. IMHO, the super high damage aside; stealth should not grant permanent movement speed bonus (especially in PvP). You may gain that bonus upon using stealth and that bonus would slowly dissipate over a short amount of time.
Thus, the overall TR mechanics can remain the same, and in PvP, you will actually need skill and experience to catch an invisible TR instead of the upcoming you-see-me, i-see-you mechanic.
The truth is, very few people can catch a TR efficiently.
any player with a latency above 150 will have huge problems finding a TR. At 250 i cant even land an encounter cause by the time it registers my action TR is already in dodge and i;ll just hit thin air.
For OP: dont confuse skill with technical limitations. From what i;m reading and my experience with you in game makes me think that this is your first mmo and so your knowledge is very limited... Anyway if you think you are so skilled and you care so much about being the best i suggest you try another game where you can make money/international fame and stop wasting your talent here.
rofl, will tiamat be able to stomp you now with stealth reveal? Yeah I don't think so. stealth reveal only works on players.
you are an idiot.
check mate.
I don't even know why anyone would be complaining about PVE. PVE right now is about getting into good groups and going on a zergfest. I've never seen an instance fail because the TR did not do much damage.
In fact, TRs should be running smokebombs on the adds and CCing them.
What do you get if you are first place on the tiamat raid dps meter? Squat! Is it even recorded somewhere? No.
I've never seen an instance fail because the TR did not do much damage.
I have. I've seen Tiamat instances fail, that could have been successes if the team only had 5 more seconds. I've also seen Tiamat instances succeed with less than 5 seconds to spare. Of course these were not entirely the fault (or credit is not entirely due) to one single character, TR or otherwise. But if we had had mod4 TRs instead, those 5-seconds-to-spare successes very well might have been failures. And this is besides the fact that not every single TR on the server is an end-game one fighting Tiamat. What about the ones who are still gearing up? It's clear you and the rest of the PVP crew don't give a **** about them.
Comments
I'm back.
Now, don't turn this into a PvE vs PvP argument, dude.
But, to reiterate, this is what I've said to you: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?810321-TR-Change-s-12-12-14&p=9673191&viewfull=1#post9673191
Please tell all these fine people here how you think you deserve all that.
Lmao I don't know what your trying to prove dude? My K/D has been 25+ in every module, and always started out at 100's to 200's plus, Do I deserve that!? Yes I do, because I actually practice. Similiarily, HR's were also able to obtain 20+ K/DS in other modules as well. Bringing me up is IRRELEVANT, and dosen't support the stealth reveal arguement what so ever.
In addition, do you know the amount of work I put into my builds to min max my survivability
do you know the amount of work anyone puts into their K/D to sustain that level
You don't know me, and in fact, no one knows you, so where do you come off calling people liars and insulting the skill behind their play
You sir put a big smack on the face to anyone who gives a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about PvP in this game.
also just pointing it out, according to the polls, over 68% of the community that voted agrees stealth reveal isn't going to be fair, yet you still persist why?
100% crit is the issue
My survivability isn't attributed to stealth, it's attributed to the fact I killed everything before they had a chance to even Look for me
Learn to play, and stop trying to break the TR's only survivability trait
In mod4 at least we had a chance against a TR because they didn't have both damage and stealth but in mod5 the fight is over in just a few seconds most of the time and there is no time to fight back.
So perma-stealth needs to be gone and if TR dies to fast out of stealth they needs some buffs in surviving outside the stealth. The damage needs a nerf too ofc.
1)its still annoying to have to swap most encounters to inferior ones for 1 class just so you can aoe
2)reducing damage would make tr worse for pve, and hurt more in pve than in pvp
3)complete invisibility is a bs in multiplayer
just like riki in dota has fade time(at least thats how i remember him from original dota, havent played dota for ages)
You call that 68% of community? Lol! Put the pool in gameplay discussions forum and we'll see about that. Now anyone can invite his friendlist to this corner of the forum and make fake results.
Most pvp players DONT gear up by paying real money for ZEN. There are other "options". Some just handling resonators very well. U know ^^
LMAO! Aware.
I don't get how this hypocrite even has the NERVE to speak or even have an opinion after what he's done (Astral Resonator exploit).
But hey... It's Cryptic, they punish legit players instead of c*nts like that guy.
Somebody provide evidence that I've ever done this
Because I've never seen a screenshot to back up these allegations ever
i don't get it as well. so many complaints are caused by the 100% crit but nobody agrees with us.
guaranteed 1-shot execution/lashing? 100% crit
gloaming cut hitting hard? 100% crit
sab piercing damage? boosted by 100% crit
Game Over for all of you Devs win they go home rich *evil laugh wahaha bwahaha wahaha bwahaha!
So, bringing this up is irrelevant? This entire thread is you complaining about the stealth reveal, saying that it would lessen your defenses. This would mean that your # of deaths would rise, which is exactly what is needed.
I dunno if coming to the forums to defend blatant brokenness should be considered that. Stealth can still have high survivability, just don't attack anything that can attack back, or don't attack at all. In any case, you gained 2 more rolls in mod 5, you should be fine. These are long distance rolls, too.
Far less than any other class, which is the point.
I wouldn't want be known for complaining about broken abilities being balanced. Nor would I want rumors of exploitation around me.
So, I guess caring about balance is a smack in the face to you, then? Not surprising seeing that the only classes you seem to enjoy playing are TR, HR, and CW, classes known to be stronger than others.
Poll the majority of the population. I guarantee you if they did that, TR's would be nerfed even harder. Bringing guildmates to this *small* subsection of the forums for a poll doesn't do much for your case. Like Iyon there.
No, I can be fine with the crit. TR's need to be lethal, they just need to be able to smacked down too. Hiding in stealth 100% of the time prevents that, so they're fixing that. In any case, if you remove this crit, you destroy PvE TR, and that's bad.
If this change won't affect your survivability, why are you complaining and arguing that it will? Stop being absolutely convoluted.
Ok, learn to play when you can be hit back. Oh wait, JUST ONE LINE AGO, YOU SAID YOUR SURVIVABILITY IS IN YOUR DAMAGE. I GUESS THIS WONT AFFECT YOU.
GET IT TOGETHER.
1 shot execution has been turned down with the 20% nerf. Lashing will still hit hard, but it wont really 1 shot (unless executioner) and the enemy can now counter.
You can land gloamings, but once again, the enemy can now counter.
Sab piercing damage is boosted by crit, yes, but now your enemy can counter. This is necessary.
How is that different from live?
If a TR gloaming cuts you, he's close enough to land bullcharge or boar or fill in the blank
isuuck2 will testify to that
the dailies have been adressed
and I haven't heard any top level players ever complain that they can't catch a tr
So question
How many TR's have killed you to make you hate the class so much, and why do you refuse to practice to get better? and why must TR work harder then every class and have a next to useless tab that only exists to buff our damage (which will get us killed) on top of the fact that
NEWS FLASH! Even with this stealth nerf bud, they'll still nerf damage, your leaving the TR useless, and your lack of expierence about high end premades fuels your arguments.
In fact, you sound no better then a pug on day 1 with all this stealth Q.Q
I killed 2k+ since mod 5 hit live my TR screwed every class and I dont mind changing my build I will always find a way to make your lives miserable. Thank you for sending me messages of frustration and hate after I mop the floor with your corpses:cool:
I know you think you're skilled, but have you fought other skilled TR's on a class that isn't invisible? There are some that can time Gloaming-> roll that makes them immune to any counter. They still have Dazing->something combo that they can land and just walk away.
Ok.
True.
Ask around.
One, you presume that I haven't practiced. As a DC, you only have 2 main tools to fighting a stealth TR, and those are Chains and Sunburst. If you miss either one, you lose. If you walk into the fight with no divinity, a good TR will just use attacks and immediately dodge so you will have almost 0 chance to regain divinity. If you lay down chains, they can simply counter by rolling into it which negates the damage and continue on in stealth. If you use sunburst, congratulations, you did mediocre damage and knocked them back, but they're stealth so you can't even follow through. Not to mention, as soon as these are on CD, you're nothing but a kill to them, and there's always ITC to deal with.
You will also die horribly trying to use these abilities on anything other than a TR.
Now, stop saying that it only exists to buff your damage. If you attack nothing, you're stealthed. If you don't attack your target for 2 seconds, you go back to full stealth.
Yeah ok, I guess you want to perpetually lock down the enemy team by having them send 2 to wherever the TR is capping. Or, just facerolling a win with 2 TR's on the team since they can virtually 2v1 any class on live.
I guess it's just too hard for you to work in a new node rotation with these changes? Or make tactical combat decisions?
In any case, you'll be able to make this point *if* they decide to tone down damage. As of right now, they've announced nothing on this front.
So, you can't address the statistics I presented. You ignore the strategy changes I propose. You ignore the existing combos that will still carry over into the new changes.
So I guess calling me a PuG is the best you can do at this point.
I hope you're all enjoying this mighty fine thread of epic awesomeness, I know I am!
Just wanted to chime in that I think people should rein in all the emotion and stop drinking hatorade...
But then again I don't consider myself a PvPer or a PvEer.
Why you may ask?
That's because I am a PTPer!
That's right my friends, a Prime Time Player...
And I am Awesome baby with a capital A!!! :cool:
Thus, the overall TR mechanics can remain the same, and in PvP, you will actually need skill and experience to catch an invisible TR instead of the upcoming you-see-me, i-see-you mechanic.
Steath skills is not wind walk.
The current TR is doing fine in PVE and will be trash in a few days just because it screwed so many butts in dominion.
Say what again? How is the stealth reveal going to make TR trash in PvE when it only works on players? lol.
The TR's literally have no arguments at this point, they are panicking.
I feel you people TR killed so many lets cry together and make the devs rich!
The truth is, very few people can catch a TR efficiently.
rofl, will tiamat be able to stomp you now with stealth reveal? Yeah I don't think so. stealth reveal only works on players.
you are an idiot.
check mate.
any player with a latency above 150 will have huge problems finding a TR. At 250 i cant even land an encounter cause by the time it registers my action TR is already in dodge and i;ll just hit thin air.
For OP: dont confuse skill with technical limitations. From what i;m reading and my experience with you in game makes me think that this is your first mmo and so your knowledge is very limited... Anyway if you think you are so skilled and you care so much about being the best i suggest you try another game where you can make money/international fame and stop wasting your talent here.
I don't even know why anyone would be complaining about PVE. PVE right now is about getting into good groups and going on a zergfest. I've never seen an instance fail because the TR did not do much damage.
In fact, TRs should be running smokebombs on the adds and CCing them.
What do you get if you are first place on the tiamat raid dps meter? Squat! Is it even recorded somewhere? No.
I have. I've seen Tiamat instances fail, that could have been successes if the team only had 5 more seconds. I've also seen Tiamat instances succeed with less than 5 seconds to spare. Of course these were not entirely the fault (or credit is not entirely due) to one single character, TR or otherwise. But if we had had mod4 TRs instead, those 5-seconds-to-spare successes very well might have been failures. And this is besides the fact that not every single TR on the server is an end-game one fighting Tiamat. What about the ones who are still gearing up? It's clear you and the rest of the PVP crew don't give a **** about them.