Everyone participated in the dungeon relatively equally? Everyone is entitled to a 20% chance at the final loot if they are composed of a group of strangers that will never see each other again.
People have the right to do as they chose, Play any way you like. But from my exp in the game almost everyone greeds on items. When you enter a dungeon ask what people are doing. Ask "Need or Greed" if you dont like the answer then leave the party. problem solved...
People have the right to do as they chose, Play any way you like. But from my exp in the game almost everyone greeds on items. When you enter a dungeon ask what people are doing. Ask "Need or Greed" if you dont like the answer then leave the party. problem solved...
Yes, ideally, the party leader should be aware and respectful of the agreement at the start of the run.
Get everyone on the same page on what the rules are and if someone needs during a greed run, kick him before the loot rolls resolve.
0
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
MY CW probably has 70M + AD worth of items on her, and i'm not done either. I desperately "NEED" AD for resonance stones because my artifact weapon is "only" LV 58, and I don't have a INT belt yet, so let me "need" on that HV helm at the aboleth, because I "need" a higher GS. 18.3k is too weak to solo TOS. I'm so depressed.
i.e.
Screw you guys, i'm going home.
Am I supposed to feel sorry for someone with 70m ADs....?
Kicking people who clicked NEED on items that they will use defeats the whole NBG process. If you're running a dungeon for loot, that's your deal. If I'm running it for gear, thats mine. You can't be upset if you don't get it. Seriously. And the fact that I can't roll NEED on an item my class can't use is completely ridiculous. What if one of my other characters needs it, but I ran this one cause it was requested? I can't roll NEED on it cause the game prevents it.
So, for all of you upset cause someone in a PUG chose NEED on an item, get wrecked. Those of you upset cause you agreed to choose GREED, and you missed out on that armor drop you really needed, get wrecked. This type of system is in every other MMO ever, and NO OTHER game has this problem. Not by a long shot. You choose NEED on the items you need, GREED on items you don't. It's a very simple system. And you're (and I mean about 90% of the ppl in this game) are using it wrong if you just GREED every single effing thing.
Well other games aren't putting such a huge paywall between the player and his upgrades. Most of the good stuff is in the cash shop. Have you ever seen a completely free, you can loot in-game, companion, with a good active bonus, at blue or purple levels? I don't. I haven't seen any coalescent wards from the 7 days praying box in a year! I haven't gotten any belt drop either and I'm not really a casual. Here is your issue.
If you find the atmosphere quite unhealthy with all this competition over scare resources then I may agree but the ones to blames aren't the players, it's the designers. There isn't much "pLay to win" left in this game. Put some of the good stuff in-game (crazy difficulty works as a way to control the amount of good stuff) and then it may alleviate the pressure on dungeon runs and make the game a bit more friendly and people more relaxed about loot.
0
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
For some reason people expect you to greed on boss loot in dungeons. I find this baffling.
Lets say the boss drops an item for my class, an item which is better than what I have, which I intend to use, which I NEED. Why would someone expect me to "greed" on it? He/she cant use it and just want to sell it on the AH for, well no better word to say it - greed.
We play a game. We run dungeons for fun and to get nice new shinny things for our toon. I never cared for any loot I cant use, and I never cared for the AH. I just enjoy the game. why other people can't?
Edit: typos.
If u never cared for AH then u are oblivious to the game itself and you should not complain in the first place because the rest of the people in this game use AH. You make a "play" with the word NEED and you try to support it using selfish arguments. Because u need an item and because game's mechanic gives you the way to selfishly need on it DOESNT make your arguments eligible. Its a broken mechanic and people got around it by agreeing to greed. You are a Ninja whos trying to prove your legitimacy. Get real and use the AH, for sanity's sake...
greed is for greedy ppl,they want something that aint for them
when I am the leader if something is for you you need it and I passed on it even if it is a purple
I never use the greed,I pass or need
you want something for the toon in your garage you run with it or you buy his things in the AH
forcing ppl to greed because you have a toon in your garage that need the item is a s-hole move,and greed is never good
what are you teaching the new generation putting greed in a game,nothing good
thats why most players think that greed is normal
Here is another example of total ignorance of the english language and semantics of the words in the context of the game. Greed as a word may mean smthing bad for you but its the fair option in the context of the game, while need is the selfish/bad option here. Such foolish behaviour can be made a canon by ignorant people. New generation seems to be in good shape and chose to use greed cause it means fairness to all.
This subject is NOT a matter of opinion, its a broken system implemented wrong by cryptic, hopefully most of the people bypass it by greeding and kicking those who act selfish while covered behind cryptic's faults.
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Everyone participated in the dungeon relatively equally? Everyone is entitled to a 20% chance at the final loot if they are composed of a group of strangers that will never see each other again.
Am I supposed to feel sorry for someone with 70m ADs....?
No, I think what he meant was, even for someone with 70mil invested in their toon, some people run dungeons for the purposes of earning diamonds to further gear up. Hence, they are not going to do dungeons to be a slave to a random stranger who will feel entitled to need on the final loot
I know you were sort of arguing on the greed side, but some of the tone in this thread is exactly just that so it wasn't really directed at you but rather it is making an argument against those people
When you see someone in LFG chat asking for a greed run, add them to your ignore list.
If you join a party of players who ask you to vote greed,
start a preemptive vote kick until you get a new player who does not try to force loot rules upon the party.
Kick greeders as soon as possible. If kick vote fails, try kicking again.
Remember to add all greeders to your ignore list.
Don't wait until you are being kicked because then it's too late.
Ppl who need-roll the gear that drops because they actually need the gear = got carried through the dungeon. Why should you need-roll it when we did all the work?
0
matiagronxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 251Arc User
When you see someone in LFG chat asking for a greed run, add them to your ignore list.
If you join a party of players who ask you to vote greed,
start a preemptive vote kick until you get a new player who does not try to force loot rules upon the party.
Kick greeders as soon as possible. If kick vote fails, try kicking again.
Don't wait until you are being kicked because then it's too late.
problem solved.
Result of these actions - you get on everyone else's ignore list, people don't run with you. Quit game.
All I can add, and its been mentioned repeatedly here in this thread; COMMUNICATION at the beginning of the run. It solves this dilemma unless you have a ninja or kickers, and those people should be blacklisted.
To all selfish needers out there..grow up and be part of the game's society.
Yeah we all want to be your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and help you gear up since that is clearly our goal when playing this game. Why not stand around in PE asking for handouts?
Your time is more important than the other 4 guys in your group.
Be greedy and hit NEED so only you can get that item that the rest of the team helped you to get.
Be aware that some people may disagree with you and try to kick you from the group, don't be discouraged by these people that think they deserve as much loot as you.
problem solved.
Needers are the greedy ones. No ifs ands or buts about it.
You can't grab the gear for yourself and then call other people greedy.
Well you can, but nobody on these forums will fall for that ridiculous logic.
Though it does provide some comic relief reading "Everyone that wants a fair chance at the loot and won't let me just have it is greedy." posts.
Ppl who need-roll the gear that drops because they actually need the gear = got carried through the dungeon. Why should you need-roll it when we did all the work?
THIS.
You guys should be glad some 15K folks carried you through and at least got you a chance on the final chest. That's not good enough? You want a free handout on the boss drop too?
Ppl who need-roll the gear that drops because they actually need the gear = got carried through the dungeon. Why should you need-roll it when we did all the work?
Was going to add this^
Most of the pugs in ToS can't kill a final boss without guardian fighter. Then why should a guardian fighter bother carrying their poor bums?
OOOOH of course all guardian fighters are just servitors and buff bots and have no right for a great loot roll. Who cares about their scrubish needs...
NO, all ninjas GET THE HELL OUT OF MY PLANE!
P.S I am a SW, my equipment drops is the most expensive atm and I don't mind pressing Greed on it first every time I see it. Even if the party totally made me mad at some point...
Our guild has still been helpful including to alts, but we're not especially keen on accepting newbies. They let the team down and if they are to become skilled, we can teach them skills only for them to find another guild to apply those skills making our time invested in them be wasted. So generally there's not so much for us needing to cater for them.
This is very much true. Also, there hasn't been a lot of new hardcore players being nurtured in the community (possibly because they saw the lack of an endgame) and the just flat-out quit the game with all your efforts being wasted.
So again, why shouldn't you get a fair 20% chance at the final loot?
When you see someone in LFG chat asking for a greed run, add them to your ignore list.
If you join a party of players who ask you to vote greed,
start a preemptive vote kick until you get a new player who does not try to force loot rules upon the party.
Kick greeders as soon as possible. If kick vote fails, try kicking again.
Remember to add all greeders to your ignore list.
Don't wait until you are being kicked because then it's too late.
problem solved.
0
cybercyanideMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 66
When you see someone in LFG chat asking for a greed run, add them to your ignore list.
If you join a party of players who ask you to vote greed,
start a preemptive vote kick until you get a new player who does not try to force loot rules upon the party.
Kick greeders as soon as possible. If kick vote fails, try kicking again.
Remember to add all greeders to your ignore list.
Don't wait until you are being kicked because then it's too late.
problem solved.
Go ahead and reiterate your self-centered logic. Fairly certain you already made a majority of players' ignore list. Problem solved.
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
Go ahead and reiterate your self-centered logic. Fairly certain you already made a majority of players' ignore list. Problem solved.
We all play for our own enjoyment, which may or may not include enjoying the enjoyment of other players.
All animals and plants are "self-centered" because nature forces us to be that way.
I repeated my statement because I am being misquoted.
We all play for our own enjoyment, which may or may not include enjoying the enjoyment of others.
All animals and plants are "self-centered" because nature forces us to be that way.
I repeated my statement because I am being misquoted.
We all play for our own enjoyment, which may or may not include enjoying the enjoyment of other players.
All animals and plants are "self-centered" because nature forces us to be that way.
I repeated my statement because I am being misquoted.
Even "needers" admit that it is self centered and "GREEDY" to need in dungeons.
Do away with it.
You guys should be glad some 15K folks carried you through and at least got you a chance on the final chest. That's not good enough? You want a free handout on the boss drop too?
Wait, so because we did Valindra's and I hit NEED on the item, because I in fact need it, then I got "carried through"? How the hell does that logic even process with you? So I didn't participate at all to be able to earn my gear?
You people tend to forget that this game DOES see an influx of people all the time. I'm still reletively new to the game, and don't have a single set of the dungeon armors. Yet thanks to friends, I've been able to get a GS high enough to let me run Valindra's. Just cause I barely have the GS to run it, doesn't mean you carried me through the **** thing. Your GS means absolutely squat if you don't know how to play your class. You people need to get over your damned selves. God, this topic makes me so angry that so many people apparently fail at one of the simplest things in the world. It's not a hard system. You're going to get pissed cause I got something I needed and you didn't get something that you needed or could sell? Know what? Get wrecked, nerd.
Lets put all this into perspective a bit, shall we?
Mob A will randomly drop 1 of 7 items, each usable only by a single class. You farm this dungeon over and over and over again trying to get the item. You run it 300 times before it finally drops. Are you SERIOUSLY going to choose GREED? I don't think so. Why are you going to risk the chance that someone else will get it? You're going to hit NEED on that thing soon as it pops up. Does this make you selfish? Hell no. It makes you the guy lucky enough to get his item to drop after 300 tries.
You people need to start using the damned system the way it was meant to be used.
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
edited October 2014
Yeah, if he was right, someone says, gear me up.
I say, ok, I like you. I am going to take my time, which could be spent doing something productive for my character (elol, dailies, etc...) to run something i don't need anymore.
Since you are new, you don't contribute that much, and I carry you. That's fine because I can solo most T2s anyway, but it is still a lot of work and effort on my part.
Then after all that you need on the item, say "thank you" and maybe we don't play together.
So here I did 90% of the work and got 10% of the loot, which is either not worth much or is BOP and what do you know, i'm flooded with RAD.
So not only does this reduce incentive to help people out by running them through dungeons, it's also straight up rude on the needer's part. Do less work, get all loot. GG man. I don't mind helping people, but that level of selfishness is intolerable to me.
entrophMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited October 2014
I don't think I've ever seen anyone have to beg for drops if they actually need the upgrade. From personal experience, 95% of the player base is reasonable enough.
It's a convoluted system for sure, but in the end it all evens out. Sell what you don't need, buy what you do. The biggest problem with the 'system,' such that it is, is people whining about it.
Comments
Why does it have to be like that?
Everyone participated in the dungeon relatively equally? Everyone is entitled to a 20% chance at the final loot if they are composed of a group of strangers that will never see each other again.
Yes, ideally, the party leader should be aware and respectful of the agreement at the start of the run.
Get everyone on the same page on what the rules are and if someone needs during a greed run, kick him before the loot rolls resolve.
Am I supposed to feel sorry for someone with 70m ADs....?
Well other games aren't putting such a huge paywall between the player and his upgrades. Most of the good stuff is in the cash shop. Have you ever seen a completely free, you can loot in-game, companion, with a good active bonus, at blue or purple levels? I don't. I haven't seen any coalescent wards from the 7 days praying box in a year! I haven't gotten any belt drop either and I'm not really a casual. Here is your issue.
If you find the atmosphere quite unhealthy with all this competition over scare resources then I may agree but the ones to blames aren't the players, it's the designers. There isn't much "pLay to win" left in this game. Put some of the good stuff in-game (crazy difficulty works as a way to control the amount of good stuff) and then it may alleviate the pressure on dungeon runs and make the game a bit more friendly and people more relaxed about loot.
If u never cared for AH then u are oblivious to the game itself and you should not complain in the first place because the rest of the people in this game use AH. You make a "play" with the word NEED and you try to support it using selfish arguments. Because u need an item and because game's mechanic gives you the way to selfishly need on it DOESNT make your arguments eligible. Its a broken mechanic and people got around it by agreeing to greed. You are a Ninja whos trying to prove your legitimacy. Get real and use the AH, for sanity's sake...
Here is another example of total ignorance of the english language and semantics of the words in the context of the game. Greed as a word may mean smthing bad for you but its the fair option in the context of the game, while need is the selfish/bad option here. Such foolish behaviour can be made a canon by ignorant people. New generation seems to be in good shape and chose to use greed cause it means fairness to all.
This subject is NOT a matter of opinion, its a broken system implemented wrong by cryptic, hopefully most of the people bypass it by greeding and kicking those who act selfish while covered behind cryptic's faults.
I was obviously being sarcastic man
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
No, I think what he meant was, even for someone with 70mil invested in their toon, some people run dungeons for the purposes of earning diamonds to further gear up. Hence, they are not going to do dungeons to be a slave to a random stranger who will feel entitled to need on the final loot
I know you were sort of arguing on the greed side, but some of the tone in this thread is exactly just that so it wasn't really directed at you but rather it is making an argument against those people
When you see someone in LFG chat asking for a greed run, add them to your ignore list.
If you join a party of players who ask you to vote greed,
start a preemptive vote kick until you get a new player who does not try to force loot rules upon the party.
Kick greeders as soon as possible. If kick vote fails, try kicking again.
Remember to add all greeders to your ignore list.
Don't wait until you are being kicked because then it's too late.
problem solved.
To all selfish needers out there..grow up and be part of the game's society.
Result of these actions - you get on everyone else's ignore list, people don't run with you. Quit game.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
You misunderstood.
You ignore them, before they ignore you.
Greeders and needers cant play together in harmony.
Better they play separately.
All I can add, and its been mentioned repeatedly here in this thread; COMMUNICATION at the beginning of the run. It solves this dilemma unless you have a ninja or kickers, and those people should be blacklisted.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Yeah we all want to be your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and help you gear up since that is clearly our goal when playing this game. Why not stand around in PE asking for handouts?
Needers are the greedy ones. No ifs ands or buts about it.
You can't grab the gear for yourself and then call other people greedy.
Well you can, but nobody on these forums will fall for that ridiculous logic.
Though it does provide some comic relief reading "Everyone that wants a fair chance at the loot and won't let me just have it is greedy." posts.
THIS.
You guys should be glad some 15K folks carried you through and at least got you a chance on the final chest. That's not good enough? You want a free handout on the boss drop too?
Most of the pugs in ToS can't kill a final boss without guardian fighter. Then why should a guardian fighter bother carrying their poor bums?
OOOOH of course all guardian fighters are just servitors and buff bots and have no right for a great loot roll. Who cares about their scrubish needs...
NO, all ninjas GET THE HELL OUT OF MY PLANE!
P.S I am a SW, my equipment drops is the most expensive atm and I don't mind pressing Greed on it first every time I see it. Even if the party totally made me mad at some point...
WTB Class Reroll please
Point is - most of the needers are noobs, casual players, people playing first toons, etc.
Almost all the veteran players i know strongly prefer all greed.
So this is only going to increase the disconnect between the new population and the experienced population.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
This is very much true. Also, there hasn't been a lot of new hardcore players being nurtured in the community (possibly because they saw the lack of an endgame) and the just flat-out quit the game with all your efforts being wasted.
So again, why shouldn't you get a fair 20% chance at the final loot?
When you see someone in LFG chat asking for a greed run, add them to your ignore list.
If you join a party of players who ask you to vote greed,
start a preemptive vote kick until you get a new player who does not try to force loot rules upon the party.
Kick greeders as soon as possible. If kick vote fails, try kicking again.
Remember to add all greeders to your ignore list.
Don't wait until you are being kicked because then it's too late.
problem solved.
Go ahead and reiterate your self-centered logic. Fairly certain you already made a majority of players' ignore list. Problem solved.
+1 /10 char
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
We all play for our own enjoyment, which may or may not include enjoying the enjoyment of other players.
All animals and plants are "self-centered" because nature forces us to be that way.
I repeated my statement because I am being misquoted.
Enjoy being on ignore lists then
Even "needers" admit that it is self centered and "GREEDY" to need in dungeons.
Do away with it.
+1 for at least being honest.
Wait, so because we did Valindra's and I hit NEED on the item, because I in fact need it, then I got "carried through"? How the hell does that logic even process with you? So I didn't participate at all to be able to earn my gear?
You people tend to forget that this game DOES see an influx of people all the time. I'm still reletively new to the game, and don't have a single set of the dungeon armors. Yet thanks to friends, I've been able to get a GS high enough to let me run Valindra's. Just cause I barely have the GS to run it, doesn't mean you carried me through the **** thing. Your GS means absolutely squat if you don't know how to play your class. You people need to get over your damned selves. God, this topic makes me so angry that so many people apparently fail at one of the simplest things in the world. It's not a hard system. You're going to get pissed cause I got something I needed and you didn't get something that you needed or could sell? Know what? Get wrecked, nerd.
Lets put all this into perspective a bit, shall we?
Mob A will randomly drop 1 of 7 items, each usable only by a single class. You farm this dungeon over and over and over again trying to get the item. You run it 300 times before it finally drops. Are you SERIOUSLY going to choose GREED? I don't think so. Why are you going to risk the chance that someone else will get it? You're going to hit NEED on that thing soon as it pops up. Does this make you selfish? Hell no. It makes you the guy lucky enough to get his item to drop after 300 tries.
You people need to start using the damned system the way it was meant to be used.
I say, ok, I like you. I am going to take my time, which could be spent doing something productive for my character (elol, dailies, etc...) to run something i don't need anymore.
Since you are new, you don't contribute that much, and I carry you. That's fine because I can solo most T2s anyway, but it is still a lot of work and effort on my part.
Then after all that you need on the item, say "thank you" and maybe we don't play together.
So here I did 90% of the work and got 10% of the loot, which is either not worth much or is BOP and what do you know, i'm flooded with RAD.
So not only does this reduce incentive to help people out by running them through dungeons, it's also straight up rude on the needer's part. Do less work, get all loot. GG man. I don't mind helping people, but that level of selfishness is intolerable to me.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It's a convoluted system for sure, but in the end it all evens out. Sell what you don't need, buy what you do. The biggest problem with the 'system,' such that it is, is people whining about it.