Agreed. That's not a fix and freeze/chill were WAI.
It got adjusted because some people were crying that CW's ability is legitimately more advantageous.
Having a class that is "legitimately more advantageous." is a problem to any decent game. That said they still did this nerf backwards. There is nothing wrong with having a strong control class. In fact that's what a Control Wizard should be. The problem is that they still have high dps, especially with storm spell which is so strong that it's broken. Combine that with bugs such as Icy Rays ignoring CC immunity and you get this problem.
Having a class that is "legitimately more advantageous." is a problem to any decent game. That said they still did this nerf backwards. There is nothing wrong with having a strong control class. In fact that's what a Control Wizard should be. The problem is that they still have high dps, especially with storm spell which is so strong that it's broken. Combine that with bugs such as Icy Rays ignoring CC immunity and you get this problem.
Since CW's main focus is supposed to be on control, I would have agreed that CW's dps should be lower than it currently is. But considering that many of CW's defensive utility powers aren't introduced into the game and the implementation of melee classes is so unacceptably deviating from canon, CWs need presentable dps to protect themselves.
oh no.... 3 whole seconds, thats not really a big deal lol
Its 3 second immunity to chilstacks not just being frozen so assuming that for some reason he decides not to attack you its going to be another 8 before you can get another freeze.
Since CW's main focus is supposed to be on control, I would have agreed that CW's dps should be lower than it currently is. But considering that many of CW's defensive utility powers aren't introduced into the game and the implementation of melee classes is so unacceptably deviating from canon, CWs need presentable dps to protect themselves.
Burn your PHB when it comes to this game. The only thing that this game should be using as far as pnp materials is the campaign setting. Pnp translated to an MMO would make a horrible game.
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jmikezMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited September 2014
the only ones getting affected by this nerf are mid tier cw's.
the high GS/top tier ones still kill most classes in 1 rotation.
personally i dont even know why they have to nerf this chill stacking thing. Might as well take out the Control in Control Wizard.
GWF's have been rolling cw's with just pressing TAB. And, lets not even talk about those annoying GF's that decides to stick to you like a booger.
Jeanne -- 21.8k PvP CW
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
Burn your PHB when it comes to this game. The only thing that this game should be using as far as pnp materials is the campaign setting. Pnp translated to an MMO would make a horrible game.
Personally I cannot agree with that. Any D&D class should keep its class nature no matter in which game it is presented. If a class fails to honor its D&D nature, it should not exist in a D&D game.
Personally I cannot agree with that. Any D&D class should keep its class nature no matter in which game it is presented. If a class fails to honor its D&D nature, it should not exist in a D&D game.
So all Wizard encounters and dailies should have much longer cast times and be instantly interrupted when the Wizard takes any damage at all? Cool.
Look - you keep spamming the forums with your quaint ideas but you should really be spending your time looking for a game that's the PnP emulator you crave. Because NW will never be that game. Thankfully.
So all Wizard encounters and dailies should have much longer cast times and be instantly interrupted when the Wizard takes any damage at all? Cool.
Look - you keep spamming the forums with your quaint ideas but you should really be spending your time looking for a game that's the PnP emulator you crave. Because NW will never be that game. Thankfully.
The way this game translated the mechanism of encounter and daily power is fine. And spell casting cannot be interrupted in 4e.
Man there are just too many people out there with an irrational hate towards CWs...
Mod 3: OMG CWs CAN ROFLSTOMP ALL PVE CONTENT BECAUSE HUGE DPS, CWs SHOULD CONTROL MOBS NOT KILL THEM, NERF NERF NERF
Devs: Okay, we are introducing some changes to CWs that will allow them to control better via chill stacks at the expense of some DPS...
Mod 4: OMG CWs CAN PERMAFREEZE MOBS ALL BY THEMSELVES, THAT'S NOT FAIR, NERF NERF NERF
So what exactly do the haters want CWs to *do*? You don't want them to kill mobs, you don't want them to freeze mobs... you want them to just stand there? Maybe you want CWs as the mod1 singbots who did nothing but spam Arcane Singularity all the time. Is that what you want? Oh, but wait the target cap on Singularity was nerfed too. Because OP CWs.
And don't bother responding with regards to PVP, I *know* what you want CWs to do in PVP, you want them to just stand there and die. That much is evident.
Man there are just too many people out there with an irrational hate towards CWs...
Mod 3: OMG CWs CAN ROFLSTOMP ALL PVE CONTENT BECAUSE HUGE DPS, CWs SHOULD CONTROL MOBS NOT KILL THEM, NERF NERF NERF
Devs: Okay, we are introducing some changes to CWs that will allow them to control better via chill stacks at the expense of some DPS...
Mod 4: OMG CWs CAN PERMAFREEZE MOBS ALL BY THEMSELVES, THAT'S NOT FAIR, NERF NERF NERF
So what exactly do the haters want CWs to *do*? You don't want them to kill mobs, you don't want them to freeze mobs... you want them to just stand there? Maybe you want CWs as the mod1 singbots who did nothing but spam Arcane Singularity all the time. Is that what you want? Oh, but wait the target cap on Singularity was nerfed too. Because OP CWs.
And don't bother responding with regards to PVP, I *know* what you want CWs to do in PVP, you want them to just stand there and die. That much is evident.
While a bit on the extreme side, I think enough people see your point. But has it not been that way for the other classes?
Example(and this is just generalized by the fact ive heard these complaints from CWs):
GWF: OMG WE CANT CONTROL THEM OMG NERF UNSTOPPABLE NOW NOW NOW!
TR: OMG WE CWS CANT SEE THEM, OMG NERF STEALTH AND THEIR DAMAGE NOW NOW NOW!
DC: THEYRE A SUPPORT CLASS, THEY SHOULDNT BE HEALING THEMSELVES AND KILLING NERF THEIR DAMAGE AND HEALS NOW NOW NOW!
HR: THEY DO TOO MUCH DAMAGE, USE ONLY 1 CONTROL POWER TO COMBAT OURS, NERF NOW NOW NOW!
GF: THEY TANK TOO MUCH, WE NEED TO KILL THEM FASTER, KV IS RUINING OUR ABILITY TO INSTA-KILL BLOCK IS BS NERF NOW NOW NOW!(not talking about KV being broken. that was understandable to complain about)
TENACITY: OMG WE CANT KILL IN ONE ROTATION OR 1 ICE KNIFE TENACITY IS BS!
See what I did there? Any CW worth their weight knew that they were a highly prized class throughout the game from start to now. Sure tenacity sucked, sure a well skilled/geared gwf/hr/sw MIGHT be able to beat a CW in dps, but whether doing pvp or pve, I don't see another class wanted more throughout the whole year the game's been open. You cant exactly cry when you've been at the top all this time.
CWs had it all. They did great damage, they could heal to the point of making DCs unnecessary if you stacked 1.5k or so, CC'ed everything.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Man there are just too many people out there with an irrational hate towards CWs...
Mod 3: OMG CWs CAN ROFLSTOMP ALL PVE CONTENT BECAUSE HUGE DPS, CWs SHOULD CONTROL MOBS NOT KILL THEM, NERF NERF NERF
Devs: Okay, we are introducing some changes to CWs that will allow them to control better via chill stacks at the expense of some DPS...
Mod 4: OMG CWs CAN PERMAFREEZE MOBS ALL BY THEMSELVES, THAT'S NOT FAIR, NERF NERF NERF
So what exactly do the haters want CWs to *do*? You don't want them to kill mobs, you don't want them to freeze mobs... you want them to just stand there? Maybe you want CWs as the mod1 singbots who did nothing but spam Arcane Singularity all the time. Is that what you want? Oh, but wait the target cap on Singularity was nerfed too. Because OP CWs.
And don't bother responding with regards to PVP, I *know* what you want CWs to do in PVP, you want them to just stand there and die. That much is evident.
Exactly.I`m fairly new to this game,and I picked a CW not because a little birdie told me it`s the most super uber class to choose,I had no idea about that.I picked it because I always have been and always will be a mage/wizard/sorceror/whatever other magic caster build is available in any game.
And now I don`t get it.I may not be anywhere near the end game sort of wizard,since I only have a bit over 2 months here and didn`t open my wallet either.But I am getting yelled and cursed at in every single one of the few pvps I make for the sole purpose of finishing off those pesky boons,like I`m the ultimate threat this game has to offer.And I know for a fact I`m not.I can take down an opponent failry fast,but I`m also squisy as hell,and I end up mopping the floors just as quick.Not to mention I feel like waving a huge red flag 5 inches away from a bull`s horns the second I step down the safe zone.I have a decent amount of kills and an impressive number of deaths at the end of every PvP session.
In fact,I don`t even like PvP.I do it when I absolutely have to,I don`t whine about it,and I`m grateful when it`s over.But in the past month I`m seriously confused as to what people expect from my class.DPS?NO,HELL NO,TAKE THEM DOWN!Control?NO,HELL NO,NERF IT TO THE GROUND.Defense,dodge,tanking?Pfft,that`s not what a CW it`s about(finaly something I agree with).So what`s left then?What is it I`m supposed to do in a dungeon where my insane aggro drags every add on me like I`m covered in honey?What other way is there for me to be an asset for a party?I`m not even gonna try and go technical to prove how other classes have this,that and then the other,making them viable in the game.To each his own,so all I want to know is:WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM MY CLASS?
PS. To those of you who already have everything,tried everything,did everything,this game is not only about you.It affects the rest of us as well,and we`re not all bored of PvE yet.We can still get trashed by mobs,1 shot by a dragon and so on,because we don`t have perfect enchants,maxed out gear,epic companions and such just yet.And just because you guys can handle anything with only your pinkie,and you have nothing but PvP left to measure who`s toys are bigger,doesn`t mean we shouldn`t get a chance to grow and enjoy the ride while we do as well.And all this ranting that keeps attracting nerf after nerf does affect us.We do need control,and dps,because otherwise we`re sitting ducks for everything and everyone.I know some of you feel like we exist only to breathe your air,but we`re here and would like to play this game as well,if that`s not too much trouble for you.
Patch notes today include some much needed fixes for CWs:
Freeze and Chill: After a target has been Frozen they are immune to new Chill stacks for 3 seconds. This lock out affects all Wizards.
Shatter Strike: After a target has been stunned by Shatter Strike they are immune to new chill stacks for 4 seconds (3 seconds on players). This lockout affects all Wizards.
Master of Flame: Twisting Immolation: This feat will no longer ignore control immunity.
While a bit on the extreme side, I think enough people see your point. But has it not been that way for the other classes?
Okay look. First, I don't give a **** about PVP. It can go away as far as I'm concerned. When it comes to PVE, a CW's job is to control mobs. D&D rules, the game's implementation of CW, and my own common sense tell me as much. CWs control mobs EITHER by (a) positioning them smartly, via moving/stunning/proning/immobilizing them, OR by (b) killing them (a dead mob is a controlled mob). People complained that too many CWs were doing too much control by DPS, and not enough control by position. Okay, fine. And now people complain that too many CWs were doing too much control by position, by "perma-freezing" them. So do you not want CWs to control at all?
All of the CW haters and whiners, what do you want CWs to do? Stand there?
Okay look. First, I don't give a **** about PVP. It can go away as far as I'm concerned. When it comes to PVE, a CW's job is to control mobs. D&D rules, the game's implementation of CW, and my own common sense tell me as much. CWs control mobs EITHER by (a) positioning them smartly, via moving/stunning/proning/immobilizing them, OR by (b) killing them (a dead mob is a controlled mob). People complained that too many CWs were doing too much control by DPS, and not enough control by position. Okay, fine. And now people complain that too many CWs were doing too much control by position, by "perma-freezing" them. So do you not want CWs to control at all?
All of the CW haters and whiners, what do you want CWs to do? Stand there?
Lets get this straight. First, my first class is a CW. Second, I DONT want CWs nerfed to oblivion. Why don't you get on the actual CW haters about that? Third, the people who are complaining are the ones whove seen first hand "perma-freeze". Fourth, I WANT a CW to control by position... but not have the damage associated to make all the other classes unecessary. Fifth, you don't want PvP, that's fine. To be honest most PvE'ers don't like it. Im not always positive about it myself. BUT, you cant just get rid of something just cause YOU want it gone. Sixth, and now lets just talk about pve here, does anybody really need anything else when 1 support class does just about everything better than everyone else?
Lets get this straight. The nerf to sing I think was unnecessary. The nerf to shard, I can go either way with. But lets compare their cc abilities AND damage to everyone else. Oh wait... you cant. No other class can do diddly squat in a dungeon compared to what a CW can do... STILL.
Please tell me, how many CN runs could(pre-mod 4, haven't checked lately) be done without at least 1 CW?
They, like other classes, have been on a seesaw of hate. I get that. But did I not just show you some of the hate(especially by CWs, I might add) to other classes?
How many times have you jumped to HRs defense as a CW? ill tell you. I have... You know WHY they could permafreeze when mod4 opened? Because TOO MANY CWs cried about cc and tenacity.
I was just bringing up the totality of what happens when a class gets its turn on the nerf wagon. You want to QQ? I truly understand the sensible part of it. By why not help by standing up in defense of whats happened to other classes along your own(not to mention that some of those classes got hit harder than you, and also got hit long before you). Maybe that can truly help someone understand balance... when they've been on every side of the nerfbat.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Basically the only complaints I hear in pve is about how easy they are to play now, and pvp complaints are chock full of how OP they are.
Maybe im missing something here?(not sarcastic. I just know that the whole pvp QQing is about how fast and how often chill stacks are applied). And the patch notes sound like its geared towards that.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
GF: THEY TANK TOO MUCH, WE NEED TO KILL THEM FASTER, KV IS RUINING OUR ABILITY TO INSTA-KILL BLOCK IS BS NERF NOW NOW NOW!(not talking about KV being broken. that was understandable to complain about)
D&D fighter's shield should not block magical control effects in the first place. KV is obviously a supernatural ability, which a D&D fighter should not have. Those abilities doesn't honor basic D&D principle.
It's clear. Those melee classes are too removed from D&D and are using blatant cheats, while CW loyally conforms to canon and is using its own legitimate abilities.
I have no offense to players who are playing those classes. I'm just pointing out a truth, which many are unwilling to face and admit.
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lordfuzunMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 54
D&D fighter should not have cc immunity in the first place. Unstoppable and sprint don't honor basic D&D principle.
D&D rogue should not still be in stealth after starting attack in the first place. Perma-stealth doesn't honor basic D&D principle.
D&D fighter's shield should not block magical control effects in the first place. KV is obviously a supernatural ability, which a D&D fighter should not have. Those abilities doesn't honor basic D&D principle.
It's clear. Those melee classes are too removed from D&D and are using blatant cheats, while CW loyally conforms to canon and is using its own legitimate abilities.
I have no offense to players who are playing those classes. I'm just pointing out a truth, which many are unwilling to face and admit.
Neverwinter isn't a D&D MMORPG. It's based upon the Neverwinter IP and the game play is inspired by the D&D 4th Ed rules. Any attempt to cramp Neverwinter in the PnP realm is a useless endeavor,
the problem with this game and CWs is, all the "controls" are stuns, meaning when a stun is happening the enemy does 0 damage and as turned into a non-combatant.
When that happens, there is no need for a tank or healer because it will be inert. freeze, shatter, steal time, prones, daze almost all CW "controls" render the content or enemies redundant, right now its a problem because its just too much of this kind of control.
Chills should just stack to the point it roots them implace. steal time should just buff your cast speeds and slow their attacks/movement to a crawl (since its steal time rather than stop time).
I'm sure there are other ways to give CWs high levels of control without breaking the content. If they turned oppressive force into mass confusion that would be pretty funny.
the chill immunity is just a terrible and most shoddy D.I.Y. hotfix I have seen, it breaks feats and class features. items become more useless (artifact weapons won't be working half the time because target will be immune) probably because it would take too long to code in a frozen ICD?
I used to love this class but right now its such a rough mess, with its encounters all skewed out of balance, magic missile effectively deleted, renegade tree mess, machine gun lightning, over-stun... Don't like assailforce either, feels tacted on and more of a weapon enchant/boon proc that a capstone feat (a extremely powerful one).
[QUOTE=williep30;8999781
How many times have you jumped to HRs defense as a CW? ill tell you. I have... You know WHY they could permafreeze when mod4 opened? Because TOO MANY CWs cried about cc and tenacity.
I was just bringing up the totality of what happens when a class gets its turn on the nerf wagon. You want to QQ? I truly understand the sensible part of it. By why not help by standing up in defense of whats happened to other classes along your own(not to mention that some of those classes got hit harder than you, and also got hit long before you). Maybe that can truly help someone understand balance... when they've been on every side of the nerfbat.[/QUOTE]
I think people forget what tenacity was like before longer freezes, a geared halfling would literally walk straight through entangle like it wasn't even there.
Also a lot of people didn't like the other classes getting nerfed. The gwf bleeds were dumb but they should have just moved the damage further down destroyer like they said they would instead of putting in the flaky dps they have now, healing depression was cruel to clerics and everyone said it and no one in pve thought it was fair what happened to trs but well the way they were in pvp something had to happen but cryptic don't fine tune. I never really played hr so I never commented on them but literally everyone on the forums said gfs needed help and it seems like it came too late. They are pretty rare now, you see some in pvp but doing dungeons is a bit rarer.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited September 2014
CWs got some fixes, eh? I just was in one dragon fight with a CW whose 60% of total damage came from Storm Spell + Assailant.
D&D fighter should not have cc immunity in the first place. Unstoppable and sprint don't honor basic D&D principle.
D&D rogue should not still be in stealth after starting attack in the first place. Perma-stealth doesn't honor basic D&D principle.
D&D fighter's shield should not block magical control effects in the first place. KV is obviously a supernatural ability, which a D&D fighter should not have. Those abilities doesn't honor basic D&D principle.
It's clear. Those melee classes are too removed from D&D and are using blatant cheats, while CW loyally conforms to canon and is using its own legitimate abilities.
I have no offense to players who are playing those classes. I'm just pointing out a truth, which many are unwilling to face and admit.
As someone already said, "Neverwinter isn't a D&D MMORPG". Also, how can you balance a game's pvp section if theres no balance. Tell me how you can balance pvp by allowing 1 single class to have control over everyone with no defenses?
Ill say it before, and ill say it again...If there is a wizard class with ways to keep the other classes at bay, for balance there must be ways for the other classes to reach the wizard.
In truth, wanting everyone to be handicapped to your class is NOT honorable either. Shoot, the CW having all the advantages is why theyre the top PvE class in the first place, and youre demanding the other classes don't have defenses to CWs in PvP too?
If you want to equate this into pnp D&D, we can try that. How many people would roll a GWF? GF? TR? Oh wait, the weak, frail cloth wearing mage incinerates enemies long before anyone else reaches them... Wheres the balance in that?
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
I think people forget what tenacity was like before longer freezes, a geared halfling would literally walk straight through entangle like it wasn't even there.
Also a lot of people didn't like the other classes getting nerfed. The gwf bleeds were dumb but they should have just moved the damage further down destroyer like they said they would instead of putting in the flaky dps they have now, healing depression was cruel to clerics and everyone said it and no one in pve thought it was fair what happened to trs but well the way they were in pvp something had to happen but cryptic don't fine tune. I never really played hr so I never commented on them but literally everyone on the forums said gfs needed help and it seems like it came too late. They are pretty rare now, you see some in pvp but doing dungeons is a bit rarer.
As far as tenacity... it went from one way to another. The CWs control was hit hard, Ive stated that. But it at least made it so the CW became a support class, not a primary killer. Now, they kept their primary killer status, and added uber control to it. Wheres the balance there? Look at the other classes... TR was a sneaky dps'er, now theyre complaining cuz they have more stealth, but hit like pillows. GWF was a striker who could be tanky... now theyre striking, but more vulnerable than ever. DC... they were a healer buffer/debuffer... now their heals are unnecessary due to excessive lifesteal/temp warlock. GF... they were a tank first, striker FAR second... nobody needed/wanted a tank, because the game was dps oriented, and now that they have THEIR spotlight, immediate nerf QQs went up(although KV wasn't WAI, and the glyphs and AP gain(especially if you went tactician) are over the top now).
Now, lets look at the CW:
Great damage? check.
Great lifesteal stacking for healing? check.
Major control now(pve, pvp until they get nerfed enough I guess)?: check.
Can be tanky with shield?: check.
With tenacity pvp, their cc barely worked at all(especially against halflings). Okay, I get that. But theyre damage got hit just like everyone else's, didn't they? Now, they can do MORE damage, and theyre control is at the point where it was more perma control than open beta's perma control builds.
Lets defend the CWs, okay? But at least not to the point of making every other class unnecessary. In my opinion, the CW never should've been a top striker class. But even still today, after a year has passed, they can outdps the other sole striker classes, cant they? Wheres the balance in that when an HR/TR/GWF gets outdamaged and unwanted in comparison to a CW?
P.S. for example, do you know how many CWs *****ed about shard's damage nerf? But not one of them(I haven't seen them anyway) complimented the increased prone time? That's what im dealing with here... They totally overlook its increased cc utility(many wont use it now), but scream about its damage decrease.
I hear "learn to play" all the time, but it seems to me that it should be defined as "my class is balanced, except when others beat it, then THAT class is OP"...
Comments
Having a class that is "legitimately more advantageous." is a problem to any decent game. That said they still did this nerf backwards. There is nothing wrong with having a strong control class. In fact that's what a Control Wizard should be. The problem is that they still have high dps, especially with storm spell which is so strong that it's broken. Combine that with bugs such as Icy Rays ignoring CC immunity and you get this problem.
Its 3 second immunity to chilstacks not just being frozen so assuming that for some reason he decides not to attack you its going to be another 8 before you can get another freeze.
Burn your PHB when it comes to this game. The only thing that this game should be using as far as pnp materials is the campaign setting. Pnp translated to an MMO would make a horrible game.
the high GS/top tier ones still kill most classes in 1 rotation.
personally i dont even know why they have to nerf this chill stacking thing. Might as well take out the Control in Control Wizard.
GWF's have been rolling cw's with just pressing TAB. And, lets not even talk about those annoying GF's that decides to stick to you like a booger.
Michael -- 21.1k PvP Sent GWF
morePewPewlessQQ -- 20k Pvp/PvE HR
Probably someone from pvp QQed to the moon again!
Problem is freezing for pve didn't need a nerf at all!
Look - you keep spamming the forums with your quaint ideas but you should really be spending your time looking for a game that's the PnP emulator you crave. Because NW will never be that game. Thankfully.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Mod 3: OMG CWs CAN ROFLSTOMP ALL PVE CONTENT BECAUSE HUGE DPS, CWs SHOULD CONTROL MOBS NOT KILL THEM, NERF NERF NERF
Devs: Okay, we are introducing some changes to CWs that will allow them to control better via chill stacks at the expense of some DPS...
Mod 4: OMG CWs CAN PERMAFREEZE MOBS ALL BY THEMSELVES, THAT'S NOT FAIR, NERF NERF NERF
So what exactly do the haters want CWs to *do*? You don't want them to kill mobs, you don't want them to freeze mobs... you want them to just stand there? Maybe you want CWs as the mod1 singbots who did nothing but spam Arcane Singularity all the time. Is that what you want? Oh, but wait the target cap on Singularity was nerfed too. Because OP CWs.
And don't bother responding with regards to PVP, I *know* what you want CWs to do in PVP, you want them to just stand there and die. That much is evident.
THese haters have their hands full!
While a bit on the extreme side, I think enough people see your point. But has it not been that way for the other classes?
Example(and this is just generalized by the fact ive heard these complaints from CWs):
GWF: OMG WE CANT CONTROL THEM OMG NERF UNSTOPPABLE NOW NOW NOW!
TR: OMG WE CWS CANT SEE THEM, OMG NERF STEALTH AND THEIR DAMAGE NOW NOW NOW!
DC: THEYRE A SUPPORT CLASS, THEY SHOULDNT BE HEALING THEMSELVES AND KILLING NERF THEIR DAMAGE AND HEALS NOW NOW NOW!
HR: THEY DO TOO MUCH DAMAGE, USE ONLY 1 CONTROL POWER TO COMBAT OURS, NERF NOW NOW NOW!
GF: THEY TANK TOO MUCH, WE NEED TO KILL THEM FASTER, KV IS RUINING OUR ABILITY TO INSTA-KILL BLOCK IS BS NERF NOW NOW NOW!(not talking about KV being broken. that was understandable to complain about)
TENACITY: OMG WE CANT KILL IN ONE ROTATION OR 1 ICE KNIFE TENACITY IS BS!
See what I did there? Any CW worth their weight knew that they were a highly prized class throughout the game from start to now. Sure tenacity sucked, sure a well skilled/geared gwf/hr/sw MIGHT be able to beat a CW in dps, but whether doing pvp or pve, I don't see another class wanted more throughout the whole year the game's been open. You cant exactly cry when you've been at the top all this time.
CWs had it all. They did great damage, they could heal to the point of making DCs unnecessary if you stacked 1.5k or so, CC'ed everything.
Exactly.I`m fairly new to this game,and I picked a CW not because a little birdie told me it`s the most super uber class to choose,I had no idea about that.I picked it because I always have been and always will be a mage/wizard/sorceror/whatever other magic caster build is available in any game.
And now I don`t get it.I may not be anywhere near the end game sort of wizard,since I only have a bit over 2 months here and didn`t open my wallet either.But I am getting yelled and cursed at in every single one of the few pvps I make for the sole purpose of finishing off those pesky boons,like I`m the ultimate threat this game has to offer.And I know for a fact I`m not.I can take down an opponent failry fast,but I`m also squisy as hell,and I end up mopping the floors just as quick.Not to mention I feel like waving a huge red flag 5 inches away from a bull`s horns the second I step down the safe zone.I have a decent amount of kills and an impressive number of deaths at the end of every PvP session.
In fact,I don`t even like PvP.I do it when I absolutely have to,I don`t whine about it,and I`m grateful when it`s over.But in the past month I`m seriously confused as to what people expect from my class.DPS?NO,HELL NO,TAKE THEM DOWN!Control?NO,HELL NO,NERF IT TO THE GROUND.Defense,dodge,tanking?Pfft,that`s not what a CW it`s about(finaly something I agree with).So what`s left then?What is it I`m supposed to do in a dungeon where my insane aggro drags every add on me like I`m covered in honey?What other way is there for me to be an asset for a party?I`m not even gonna try and go technical to prove how other classes have this,that and then the other,making them viable in the game.To each his own,so all I want to know is:WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM MY CLASS?
PS. To those of you who already have everything,tried everything,did everything,this game is not only about you.It affects the rest of us as well,and we`re not all bored of PvE yet.We can still get trashed by mobs,1 shot by a dragon and so on,because we don`t have perfect enchants,maxed out gear,epic companions and such just yet.And just because you guys can handle anything with only your pinkie,and you have nothing but PvP left to measure who`s toys are bigger,doesn`t mean we shouldn`t get a chance to grow and enjoy the ride while we do as well.And all this ranting that keeps attracting nerf after nerf does affect us.We do need control,and dps,because otherwise we`re sitting ducks for everything and everyone.I know some of you feel like we exist only to breathe your air,but we`re here and would like to play this game as well,if that`s not too much trouble for you.
obvious troll is obvious
/flagged
Okay look. First, I don't give a **** about PVP. It can go away as far as I'm concerned. When it comes to PVE, a CW's job is to control mobs. D&D rules, the game's implementation of CW, and my own common sense tell me as much. CWs control mobs EITHER by (a) positioning them smartly, via moving/stunning/proning/immobilizing them, OR by (b) killing them (a dead mob is a controlled mob). People complained that too many CWs were doing too much control by DPS, and not enough control by position. Okay, fine. And now people complain that too many CWs were doing too much control by position, by "perma-freezing" them. So do you not want CWs to control at all?
All of the CW haters and whiners, what do you want CWs to do? Stand there?
Lets get this straight. First, my first class is a CW. Second, I DONT want CWs nerfed to oblivion. Why don't you get on the actual CW haters about that? Third, the people who are complaining are the ones whove seen first hand "perma-freeze". Fourth, I WANT a CW to control by position... but not have the damage associated to make all the other classes unecessary. Fifth, you don't want PvP, that's fine. To be honest most PvE'ers don't like it. Im not always positive about it myself. BUT, you cant just get rid of something just cause YOU want it gone. Sixth, and now lets just talk about pve here, does anybody really need anything else when 1 support class does just about everything better than everyone else?
Lets get this straight. The nerf to sing I think was unnecessary. The nerf to shard, I can go either way with. But lets compare their cc abilities AND damage to everyone else. Oh wait... you cant. No other class can do diddly squat in a dungeon compared to what a CW can do... STILL.
Please tell me, how many CN runs could(pre-mod 4, haven't checked lately) be done without at least 1 CW?
They, like other classes, have been on a seesaw of hate. I get that. But did I not just show you some of the hate(especially by CWs, I might add) to other classes?
How many times have you jumped to HRs defense as a CW? ill tell you. I have... You know WHY they could permafreeze when mod4 opened? Because TOO MANY CWs cried about cc and tenacity.
I was just bringing up the totality of what happens when a class gets its turn on the nerf wagon. You want to QQ? I truly understand the sensible part of it. By why not help by standing up in defense of whats happened to other classes along your own(not to mention that some of those classes got hit harder than you, and also got hit long before you). Maybe that can truly help someone understand balance... when they've been on every side of the nerfbat.
CRAZY MIKE - 14.6k PvE CW
Backbone - 16.7k PvP HR
[SIGPIC]http://i59.tinypic.com/s3hts7.png[/SIGPIC]
And if its not because of pvp, what is the reason? ill tell you that nobody's complaining about permafreeze in pve... and yet:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?742071-i-just-trained-a-dolphin-to-play-cw&highlight=dolphin
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?729851-PvP-is-worse-then-ever&highlight=permafreeze
Basically the only complaints I hear in pve is about how easy they are to play now, and pvp complaints are chock full of how OP they are.
Maybe im missing something here?(not sarcastic. I just know that the whole pvp QQing is about how fast and how often chill stacks are applied). And the patch notes sound like its geared towards that.
D&D rogue should not still be in stealth after starting attack in the first place. Perma-stealth doesn't honor basic D&D principle.
D&D fighter's shield should not block magical control effects in the first place. KV is obviously a supernatural ability, which a D&D fighter should not have. Those abilities doesn't honor basic D&D principle.
It's clear. Those melee classes are too removed from D&D and are using blatant cheats, while CW loyally conforms to canon and is using its own legitimate abilities.
I have no offense to players who are playing those classes. I'm just pointing out a truth, which many are unwilling to face and admit.
Neverwinter isn't a D&D MMORPG. It's based upon the Neverwinter IP and the game play is inspired by the D&D 4th Ed rules. Any attempt to cramp Neverwinter in the PnP realm is a useless endeavor,
Btw. I think missing a free kill of CWs is a good explanation. It's only weird I don't see many GWFs here. Mostly HRs.
When that happens, there is no need for a tank or healer because it will be inert. freeze, shatter, steal time, prones, daze almost all CW "controls" render the content or enemies redundant, right now its a problem because its just too much of this kind of control.
Chills should just stack to the point it roots them implace. steal time should just buff your cast speeds and slow their attacks/movement to a crawl (since its steal time rather than stop time).
I'm sure there are other ways to give CWs high levels of control without breaking the content. If they turned oppressive force into mass confusion that would be pretty funny.
the chill immunity is just a terrible and most shoddy D.I.Y. hotfix I have seen, it breaks feats and class features. items become more useless (artifact weapons won't be working half the time because target will be immune) probably because it would take too long to code in a frozen ICD?
I used to love this class but right now its such a rough mess, with its encounters all skewed out of balance, magic missile effectively deleted, renegade tree mess, machine gun lightning, over-stun... Don't like assailforce either, feels tacted on and more of a weapon enchant/boon proc that a capstone feat (a extremely powerful one).
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
How many times have you jumped to HRs defense as a CW? ill tell you. I have... You know WHY they could permafreeze when mod4 opened? Because TOO MANY CWs cried about cc and tenacity.
I was just bringing up the totality of what happens when a class gets its turn on the nerf wagon. You want to QQ? I truly understand the sensible part of it. By why not help by standing up in defense of whats happened to other classes along your own(not to mention that some of those classes got hit harder than you, and also got hit long before you). Maybe that can truly help someone understand balance... when they've been on every side of the nerfbat.[/QUOTE]
I think people forget what tenacity was like before longer freezes, a geared halfling would literally walk straight through entangle like it wasn't even there.
Also a lot of people didn't like the other classes getting nerfed. The gwf bleeds were dumb but they should have just moved the damage further down destroyer like they said they would instead of putting in the flaky dps they have now, healing depression was cruel to clerics and everyone said it and no one in pve thought it was fair what happened to trs but well the way they were in pvp something had to happen but cryptic don't fine tune. I never really played hr so I never commented on them but literally everyone on the forums said gfs needed help and it seems like it came too late. They are pretty rare now, you see some in pvp but doing dungeons is a bit rarer.
Why can't I hold all this balance?
As someone already said, "Neverwinter isn't a D&D MMORPG". Also, how can you balance a game's pvp section if theres no balance. Tell me how you can balance pvp by allowing 1 single class to have control over everyone with no defenses?
Ill say it before, and ill say it again...If there is a wizard class with ways to keep the other classes at bay, for balance there must be ways for the other classes to reach the wizard.
In truth, wanting everyone to be handicapped to your class is NOT honorable either. Shoot, the CW having all the advantages is why theyre the top PvE class in the first place, and youre demanding the other classes don't have defenses to CWs in PvP too?
If you want to equate this into pnp D&D, we can try that. How many people would roll a GWF? GF? TR? Oh wait, the weak, frail cloth wearing mage incinerates enemies long before anyone else reaches them... Wheres the balance in that?
As far as tenacity... it went from one way to another. The CWs control was hit hard, Ive stated that. But it at least made it so the CW became a support class, not a primary killer. Now, they kept their primary killer status, and added uber control to it. Wheres the balance there? Look at the other classes... TR was a sneaky dps'er, now theyre complaining cuz they have more stealth, but hit like pillows. GWF was a striker who could be tanky... now theyre striking, but more vulnerable than ever. DC... they were a healer buffer/debuffer... now their heals are unnecessary due to excessive lifesteal/temp warlock. GF... they were a tank first, striker FAR second... nobody needed/wanted a tank, because the game was dps oriented, and now that they have THEIR spotlight, immediate nerf QQs went up(although KV wasn't WAI, and the glyphs and AP gain(especially if you went tactician) are over the top now).
Now, lets look at the CW:
Great damage? check.
Great lifesteal stacking for healing? check.
Major control now(pve, pvp until they get nerfed enough I guess)?: check.
Can be tanky with shield?: check.
With tenacity pvp, their cc barely worked at all(especially against halflings). Okay, I get that. But theyre damage got hit just like everyone else's, didn't they? Now, they can do MORE damage, and theyre control is at the point where it was more perma control than open beta's perma control builds.
Lets defend the CWs, okay? But at least not to the point of making every other class unnecessary. In my opinion, the CW never should've been a top striker class. But even still today, after a year has passed, they can outdps the other sole striker classes, cant they? Wheres the balance in that when an HR/TR/GWF gets outdamaged and unwanted in comparison to a CW?
P.S. for example, do you know how many CWs *****ed about shard's damage nerf? But not one of them(I haven't seen them anyway) complimented the increased prone time? That's what im dealing with here... They totally overlook its increased cc utility(many wont use it now), but scream about its damage decrease.