Oh wow suprise the best weapon (for most classes) is really hard to get!! :rolleyes:
All MMO's i ever played had RNG in their dropsystems. Even games that arent free to play like WOW. I dont have any problem at all with that to be honest. What needs to be changed (like mentioned above) is the number and quality of drops bosses drop. Its ridicolous - well its mroe with all that marks and artifacts...
Also i really would wish to have more RNG like random stats and stuff - would create more endgame content
Sometimes it feels that this community is a bit lazy - if they dont get the stuff they want the moment they have the possibility to have it they rage about it.
Mayb next Module they should unlock all the gear and boons within 1 day and grant a 100% garantee to get the new stuff you want...
Sometimes it feels that this community is a bit lazy - if they dont get the stuff they want the moment they have the possibility to have it they rage about it.
Mayb next Module they should unlock all the gear and boons within 1 day and grant a 100% garantee to get the new stuff you want...
If I was a dev I'd end up trolling the players, design an uber item and put it in the collections tab for a dungeon, but not actually put it in the game at all.
A lot of f2p games are not what I would consider casual friendly nowadays. It seems to be part of the business model, if you don't have the time to grind stuff out you're expected to have the money to speed things up. The time and money requirements seem to be going up. Maybe I'm looking at this through rose-tinted glasses but I don't recall things being quite as bad with earlier f2p stuff. It might just be the f2p model maturing with the realisation that not a lot of people pay so they want/need to milk as much from the payers as they can.
Having said all that I'm my position is similar to yours although I can perhaps manage a bit more gaming time per day. I got no drops in IWD and wrote that off as a waste of time. Much to my surprise I got a bit of luck in ToD and I got a gem on my 15th Epic Shores skirmish and then got the artifact weapon that matched my primary at-will. Whether that weapon turns out to be of any use to me due to the refining requirements to upgrade it remains to be seen.
Neverwinter itself was far more ''ópen'' just a year ago but nevermind that. Im not asking for a fun and quality game for free because that is what it comes down to - its not about how hard or easy it is to obtain bis gear, its about the income PWE receives. Im more than happy to support the devs and Ive done so already on several occasions. When I sum it up I think I've pretty much covered what would be an initial game purchase + a monthly fee for every month I played. The thing that puts me off is that what you actually pay for is a bloody gamble in itself ( unless you simply convert 20000 ZEN to AD and clear the AH ). Its like going to the butchers for a fat steak and they give you 3 boxes to pick from, two being empty. Only in Neverwinter the empty boxes are a lot more so to speak.
And that goes for mostly everythnig of real value, not just the actual lockboxes.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
If I was a dev I'd end up trolling the players, design an uber item and put it in the collections tab for a dungeon, but not actually put it in the game at all.
..so? whats ur point? You think the 1 artifact weapon out of 3 YOU want doesnt really exist? Dev's personnally decided to troll you?
Also its not that you get nothing - you might not get what you want which can be frustrating as hell - but you can feed the other weapons during the double refinement event (or cant you? not sure about this)
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
edited September 2014
I dont agree. The mod 4 RNG loot makes new players have lots of opportunities against old players. I would like to have drops so valuable as dragon gems, artifact belts, or the boon books when I was doing pirate king nonstop when I was a newbie.
This system is worse for old players and reduces the gap because is bassed on luck, yeah you need to complete the skimirsh but even in the non epic version you can get the most valuable items.
I am not telling that I like this system, (I didnt have luck with books or belts) I like being rewarded for doing hard dungeons and have good teamplay etc, but this system reduce the gap between new players and old ones, and reward playing the game wich are good things. I wish we could have all, like in respen's game event, lucky players could sell drops and earn ADs, and other players could grind for the rewards (bound). I liked that event for this.
I have no problem with the RNG and loot tables in dungeons because you will always get something. Even if it is a crappy belt, you can get some RAD for it. Also, when gearing up, the Drake and Unicorn seals allow you to get decent gear. What I do have a problem with is the RNG of the HEs. Mod 3 has given me an HRs Hammerstone bracers on my GF. That is it. My GF has nothing to show for Mod3 except an incomplete weapon and armour set. I am fighting increasingly better geared players in PVP and it isn't because I have no skill that I am slipping behind. Players with BI gear and artifact belts and weapons are running train on me and it is not necessarily because I can't play.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Keep the boring dailies grind BUT put the BIS artifact weapons behind a paywall?
No thank you.
You either pay in time or you pay in money. You can either get the artifact weapon as things currently stand now, or, if you don't want to do the boring dailies, just whip out your credit card.
You either pay in time or you pay in money. You can either get the artifact weapon as things currently stand now, or, if you don't want to do the boring dailies, just whip out your credit card.
Your credit card will get you a chance to get a belt. That little detail goes a long way. If I have the time to grind for a drop I just might do it since I like the game. But "grinding" with my money is plain stupid. When RL cash gets involved people have the right to demand real value in return
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
..so? whats ur point? You think the 1 artifact weapon out of 3 YOU want doesnt really exist? Dev's personnally decided to troll you?
Also its not that you get nothing - you might not get what you want which can be frustrating as hell - but you can feed the other weapons during the double refinement event (or cant you? not sure about this)
Sigh, I was agreeing with you..................... I don't know how the dev's do it. I'd turn pure evil.
You either pay in time or you pay in money. You can either get the artifact weapon as things currently stand now, or, if you don't want to do the boring dailies, just whip out your credit card.
I don't want TIME to be the big factor. I want time & skill & effort to all weigh in heavily.
Right now, TIME and dumb-RNG are the biggest gates towards loot. That is an awful design that does not reward smart gameplay, teamwork, coordination and effort.
Right now, I whip out my remote control to watch TV because AFKing on dragons is too OP and I get the same rewards as anyone
I dont agree. The mod 4 RNG loot makes new players have lots of opportunities against old players. I would like to have drops so valuable as dragon gems, artifact belts, or the boon books when I was doing pirate king nonstop when I was a newbie.
This system is worse for old players and reduces the gap because is bassed on luck, yeah you need to complete the skimirsh but even in the non epic version you can get the most valuable items.
I am not telling that I like this system, (I didnt have luck with books or belts) I like being rewarded for doing hard dungeons and have good teamplay etc, but this system reduce the gap between new players and old ones, and reward playing the game wich are good things. I wish we could have all, like in respen's game event, lucky players could sell drops and earn ADs, and other players could grind for the rewards (bound). I liked that event for this.
Nobody in Black Lotus should support the RNG loot system we have here. You're supposed to be an elite PvE guild, right?
You should support tough PvE content that puts your chars to the test.
As for the "opportunities" new players have, you are oh so wrong.
All they get is a green wep/belt. They need to refine it... with WHAT? The biggest problem in the game is the new players have pretty much no AD.
No new player will keep those items. They will desperately sell them so they can get some r8s and epic artifacts or something. Who cares about a belt or weapon when the endgame PvP/PvE is miles away from you.
0
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
Nobody in Black Lotus should support the RNG loot system we have here. You're supposed to be an elite PvE guild, right?
You should support tough PvE content that puts your chars to the test.
As for the "opportunities" new players have, you are oh so wrong.
All they get is a green wep/belt. They need to refine it... with WHAT? The biggest problem in the game is the new players have pretty much no AD.
No new player will keep those items. They will desperately sell them so they can get some r8s and epic artifacts or something. Who cares about a belt or weapon when the endgame PvP/PvE is miles away from you.
First, dont include Black Lotus in this, because it is just a personal opinion, not the guild voice. So dont include my Guild if I dont mention it.
Second, You probably misunderstood me. I dont support this being the default in all the content. If you read other posts and feedback I gave, I want VERY HARD dungeons with BIS GEAR as GUARANTED reward, I even suggested a legendary version of the dungeons with no red areas and mechanisms like the new skimirsh 1-shot-spell of the boss.
But even with that is good that new players have some chances of getting valuable rewards they can sell to get stronger and farm even more by playing the game. What if they sell a green belt for 5M? If they can buy some R9s or a perfect enchant, they improve they characters so they can farm more and harder content. Maybe they dont sell the second belt and keep it for themselves when they can afford the refinement cost.
This is not a bad thing if we have hard dungeons with guaranteed BIS rewards too. The broblem is (and we can agree here) if this become the norm for all the end game content. This is as bad as the opposite.
The new skirmish and Dungeon is a good opportunity not only for new players but for all players that has the time to invest in grinding. It was a long time ago they released anything that could give you so much AD by just farming PvE.
I got:
2x Dext belts
2x Lantern artifact
1x Waters artifact
10-12x Gems
1x Boon book
And all this by farming the normal Skirmish (with ZEN keys). Without the keys its not worth farming it. I only got gems from the normal chest.
BUT. The RNG in the game sucks. I'm at my 6th try to get the correct legendary weapon now. Costed me 5-6m so far and 120hours of waiting. And I still cant unlock the Dungeon because I'm wasted my sigils for the last 6 days on the weapon.
Ive been asking for harder and longer dungeons with good BoE items since they released Malabog and that was a huge disappointment. So was VT and so is the new Dungeon and I'm guessing Mod5 will bring even more disappointment because they don't seem to want what I want.
Yeah, I'm tired of the whole rng thing, especially in TOD. Making the artifact weapon random is incredibly frustrating, since actually getting the ingredients for the (why...?) 18hour dice-roll is repetetive (sick of the sight of dragons of any colour) and involves yet more rng - dragon bone/gem drops...
IWD has equally awful rng, but at least you could choose which kind of gear to craft, and the HEs didn't involve dashing all over the map, they just popped up while you were doing your dailies. It's a pity the dragons aren't like the ones in skyrim, swooping out of the sky and surprising you, they used to scare the HAMSTER out of me and Lydia.
All in all TOD has reduced my will to play pretty drastically. Not a lot out of ten.
I'm curious if module 5 & 6 will bring in PVE endgame that requires skill instead of good RNG/having lots of time to farm dailies over and over and over again
it might be frustrating when you're not lucky with RNG, but nearly all MMORPGs are like this. if all the legendary loot was easily accessible, then there would be nothing to work towards. don't like the grind? maybe MMORPGs are not your bag.
it might be frustrating when you're not lucky with RNG, but nearly all MMORPGs are like this. if all the legendary loot was easily accessible, then there would be nothing to work towards. don't like the grind? maybe MMORPGs are not your bag.
I only suggested that the RNG will be partially replaced by VERY TOUGH BOSSES. We are talking about the top end gear such as the Legendary weapons now.
You might ask why.
Because from my experience in MMOs:
- weak mobs that anybody can kill - bad loot
- raid boss that 0.5% of population can kill - very very good loot.
I cannot fight and win against pure RNG, yet I KNOW I have the skills and the gear and coordination required to kill the raid bosses and get great loot. The tougher they are the better for me. I'll manage to best them.
It's basically asking for better loot, and because we know that loot must be worked for in MMOs, we ask that it is put behind a skill-check - with some (limited) RNG - instead of full casino as it is now - you put in 600K AD every 20 hours to get your chance. We are not asking for freebies and giveaways. Just tough challenges that we can best with lots of work and get sweet gear.
PS: I got my orb in the 2nd try. I still cannot agree with the system in the least. A poster here is on his 6th-7th attempt, and he will need to spend 10 millions more to level the weapon (less ofc during the event).
it might be frustrating when you're not lucky with RNG, but nearly all MMORPGs are like this. if all the legendary loot was easily accessible, then there would be nothing to work towards. don't like the grind? maybe MMORPGs are not your bag.
Considering the design of the artifact weapons and the nature of the way it can be upgraded over time it seems much more fitting to me that they be provided to the player early and upgraded as the player progresses through the content. Similar to the artifacts that are part of a quest line and come with a choice of three.
One obvious downside is that it would probably render much of the current weapons in the game useless but it just seems a weird design to me that the base artifact weapon is likely worse than the weapon you need to be using in order to complete content that gives access to it. Edit: actually since the basic ToD skirmish is only 10,500 GS IIRC, it's possible that it won't be like this for all /edit. I'm currently wondering whether I'll ever get the time to upgrade my artifact weapon to the point where it's a viable replacement for what I currently have. Edit: Base damage is on par but I'll lose a weapon enchant slot and other stats, including a set bonus. Perhaps this is just meant as an alternative weapon rather than the only weapon you'll ever use (until something better comes out ;P) /edit.
IIRC LotRO has legendary weapons that are a level 50ish quest. I only ever got to level 46 so don't know much about these or how they compare to other end game weapons.
Perhaps this is just an experiement to gather player feedback for future changes.
it might be frustrating when you're not lucky with RNG, but nearly all MMORPGs are like this. if all the legendary loot was easily accessible, then there would be nothing to work towards. don't like the grind? maybe MMORPGs are not your bag.
I love MMORPGs. like PVE dungeons, I like to do some PVP as well. What I don't like to do is play the lottery. Never bought a lottery ticket. I love challenging dungeons that rewards players and teams for coordination/skills/effort put into this game. I loved Castle Never back in the day because it was challenging (more) then but it always dropped an ancient weapon.
The new dungeons and heroic encounters are mind-numbing, does not reward effort and just time consuming for the sake of being time consuming. The rewards are a crapshoot. Most people get HAMSTER. Very very few get artifact belts. I don't think that is a good balance. I don't think that rewards players accordingly.
it might be frustrating when you're not lucky with RNG, but nearly all MMORPGs are like this. if all the legendary loot was easily accessible, then there would be nothing to work towards. don't like the grind? maybe MMORPGs are not your bag.
This is well truly beyond grinding, it's getting into the realm of masochism. How often are we supposed to have to run HEs to get the drops? At this point I am well over 500HEs between IWD and ToD, and have yet to get anything beyond some blue crafting materials. This includes soloing or duoing IWD HEs, and 6 manning dragons. Not these weren't good fights, but at some point it needs to be rewarding. I don't mind grinding if at some point there will be a payoff for the effort. I will no longer run IWD as that seems hopeless, ToD is starting to look like the same. If I actually thought I was "working" towards getting the drops that would be one thing, but since your chance resets every time, don't tell me I am "working" towards it.
I don't mind grinding if at some point there will be a payoff for the effort. I will no longer run IWD as that seems hopeless, ToD is starting to look like the same. If I actually thought I was "working" towards getting the drops that would be one thing, but since your chance resets every time, don't tell me I am "working" towards it.
Unfortunately, TOD is more of the same HAMSTER. More dailies to do. More RNG none-sense. You see certain players get 2x more legendary slots in their gear the next day through means that we all are thinking.
No new endgame. I prefer Module 3. I applauded them for trying to do something new and provide endgame with open world PVP. It failed miserably, but its the thought that counts.
Comments
All MMO's i ever played had RNG in their dropsystems. Even games that arent free to play like WOW. I dont have any problem at all with that to be honest. What needs to be changed (like mentioned above) is the number and quality of drops bosses drop. Its ridicolous - well its mroe with all that marks and artifacts...
Also i really would wish to have more RNG like random stats and stuff - would create more endgame content
Sometimes it feels that this community is a bit lazy - if they dont get the stuff they want the moment they have the possibility to have it they rage about it.
Mayb next Module they should unlock all the gear and boons within 1 day and grant a 100% garantee to get the new stuff you want...
Neverwinter itself was far more ''ópen'' just a year ago
And that goes for mostly everythnig of real value, not just the actual lockboxes.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
..so? whats ur point? You think the 1 artifact weapon out of 3 YOU want doesnt really exist? Dev's personnally decided to troll you?
Also its not that you get nothing - you might not get what you want which can be frustrating as hell - but you can feed the other weapons during the double refinement event (or cant you? not sure about this)
This system is worse for old players and reduces the gap because is bassed on luck, yeah you need to complete the skimirsh but even in the non epic version you can get the most valuable items.
I am not telling that I like this system, (I didnt have luck with books or belts) I like being rewarded for doing hard dungeons and have good teamplay etc, but this system reduce the gap between new players and old ones, and reward playing the game wich are good things. I wish we could have all, like in respen's game event, lucky players could sell drops and earn ADs, and other players could grind for the rewards (bound). I liked that event for this.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
You either pay in time or you pay in money. You can either get the artifact weapon as things currently stand now, or, if you don't want to do the boring dailies, just whip out your credit card.
Your credit card will get you a chance to get a belt. That little detail goes a long way. If I have the time to grind for a drop I just might do it since I like the game. But "grinding" with my money is plain stupid. When RL cash gets involved people have the right to demand real value in return
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Ok sry i was not expecting sb in this forum to agree with me
No need for grinding! Just exchange your Zen for AD and buy it (belt) from the AH!
I don't want TIME to be the big factor. I want time & skill & effort to all weigh in heavily.
Right now, TIME and dumb-RNG are the biggest gates towards loot. That is an awful design that does not reward smart gameplay, teamwork, coordination and effort.
Right now, I whip out my remote control to watch TV because AFKing on dragons is too OP and I get the same rewards as anyone
Nobody in Black Lotus should support the RNG loot system we have here. You're supposed to be an elite PvE guild, right?
You should support tough PvE content that puts your chars to the test.
As for the "opportunities" new players have, you are oh so wrong.
All they get is a green wep/belt. They need to refine it... with WHAT? The biggest problem in the game is the new players have pretty much no AD.
No new player will keep those items. They will desperately sell them so they can get some r8s and epic artifacts or something. Who cares about a belt or weapon when the endgame PvP/PvE is miles away from you.
First, dont include Black Lotus in this, because it is just a personal opinion, not the guild voice. So dont include my Guild if I dont mention it.
Second, You probably misunderstood me. I dont support this being the default in all the content. If you read other posts and feedback I gave, I want VERY HARD dungeons with BIS GEAR as GUARANTED reward, I even suggested a legendary version of the dungeons with no red areas and mechanisms like the new skimirsh 1-shot-spell of the boss.
But even with that is good that new players have some chances of getting valuable rewards they can sell to get stronger and farm even more by playing the game. What if they sell a green belt for 5M? If they can buy some R9s or a perfect enchant, they improve they characters so they can farm more and harder content. Maybe they dont sell the second belt and keep it for themselves when they can afford the refinement cost.
This is not a bad thing if we have hard dungeons with guaranteed BIS rewards too. The broblem is (and we can agree here) if this become the norm for all the end game content. This is as bad as the opposite.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
I got:
2x Dext belts
2x Lantern artifact
1x Waters artifact
10-12x Gems
1x Boon book
And all this by farming the normal Skirmish (with ZEN keys). Without the keys its not worth farming it. I only got gems from the normal chest.
BUT. The RNG in the game sucks. I'm at my 6th try to get the correct legendary weapon now. Costed me 5-6m so far and 120hours of waiting. And I still cant unlock the Dungeon because I'm wasted my sigils for the last 6 days on the weapon.
Ive been asking for harder and longer dungeons with good BoE items since they released Malabog and that was a huge disappointment. So was VT and so is the new Dungeon and I'm guessing Mod5 will bring even more disappointment because they don't seem to want what I want.
IWD has equally awful rng, but at least you could choose which kind of gear to craft, and the HEs didn't involve dashing all over the map, they just popped up while you were doing your dailies. It's a pity the dragons aren't like the ones in skyrim, swooping out of the sky and surprising you, they used to scare the HAMSTER out of me and Lydia.
All in all TOD has reduced my will to play pretty drastically. Not a lot out of ten.
I only suggested that the RNG will be partially replaced by VERY TOUGH BOSSES. We are talking about the top end gear such as the Legendary weapons now.
You might ask why.
Because from my experience in MMOs:
- weak mobs that anybody can kill - bad loot
- raid boss that 0.5% of population can kill - very very good loot.
I cannot fight and win against pure RNG, yet I KNOW I have the skills and the gear and coordination required to kill the raid bosses and get great loot. The tougher they are the better for me. I'll manage to best them.
It's basically asking for better loot, and because we know that loot must be worked for in MMOs, we ask that it is put behind a skill-check - with some (limited) RNG - instead of full casino as it is now - you put in 600K AD every 20 hours to get your chance. We are not asking for freebies and giveaways. Just tough challenges that we can best with lots of work and get sweet gear.
PS: I got my orb in the 2nd try. I still cannot agree with the system in the least. A poster here is on his 6th-7th attempt, and he will need to spend 10 millions more to level the weapon (less ofc during the event).
Considering the design of the artifact weapons and the nature of the way it can be upgraded over time it seems much more fitting to me that they be provided to the player early and upgraded as the player progresses through the content. Similar to the artifacts that are part of a quest line and come with a choice of three.
One obvious downside is that it would probably render much of the current weapons in the game useless but it just seems a weird design to me that the base artifact weapon is likely worse than the weapon you need to be using in order to complete content that gives access to it. Edit: actually since the basic ToD skirmish is only 10,500 GS IIRC, it's possible that it won't be like this for all /edit. I'm currently wondering whether I'll ever get the time to upgrade my artifact weapon to the point where it's a viable replacement for what I currently have. Edit: Base damage is on par but I'll lose a weapon enchant slot and other stats, including a set bonus. Perhaps this is just meant as an alternative weapon rather than the only weapon you'll ever use (until something better comes out ;P) /edit.
IIRC LotRO has legendary weapons that are a level 50ish quest. I only ever got to level 46 so don't know much about these or how they compare to other end game weapons.
Perhaps this is just an experiement to gather player feedback for future changes.
I love MMORPGs. like PVE dungeons, I like to do some PVP as well. What I don't like to do is play the lottery. Never bought a lottery ticket. I love challenging dungeons that rewards players and teams for coordination/skills/effort put into this game. I loved Castle Never back in the day because it was challenging (more) then but it always dropped an ancient weapon.
The new dungeons and heroic encounters are mind-numbing, does not reward effort and just time consuming for the sake of being time consuming. The rewards are a crapshoot. Most people get HAMSTER. Very very few get artifact belts. I don't think that is a good balance. I don't think that rewards players accordingly.
Unfortunately, TOD is more of the same HAMSTER. More dailies to do. More RNG none-sense. You see certain players get 2x more legendary slots in their gear the next day through means that we all are thinking.
No new endgame. I prefer Module 3. I applauded them for trying to do something new and provide endgame with open world PVP. It failed miserably, but its the thought that counts.