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So Scourge warlocks can out-heal Clerics?
shine25
Member Posts: 26 Arc User
just saw a warlock did 3x more healing that a Devote cleric.
Is this natural? someone please explain what im missing on here, how can a different class heal more than the primary healing class of this game.
Is this natural? someone please explain what im missing on here, how can a different class heal more than the primary healing class of this game.
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Heather - Ranger
James - Paladin
Jet - Warlock
Royal - Cleric
Gray - Rogue
Red - Wizard
Ios - Barbarian
Just having a DC around popping minor HoTs or Astral Shield makes your lifesteal and regen kick into overdrive. They help you heal yourself more than they directly boost your hitpoints.
You've had good responses. Also context is important but I wouldn't be surprised if most of that healing was because the Warlock was a self-harmer anyway. DC give mitigation/buffs/debuffs as stated and that stuff just isn't measured by the game.
In other words not everything is a true heal, but ACT does not distinguish the difference.
/Edit the in game damage, healing, most slain etc does not distinguish either
Here is what I mean: If each class were a real thing, the power of the GWF comes from shear strength, the same for a GF; the TR from agility and speed, the HR their tactics and long range projectiles. Where the CW takes it from knowledge (books of magic) the SW from pact with evil magic and whatnot, the Cleric simply takes theirs from the Gods, but is still just like the others: a dealer of wrath.
But people still perceive it this way:
GWF, GF, TR, HR, CW, SW: COMBAT SOLDIER
DC: UNDER-ARMED MEDIC
Because of this all the classes have a clearly defined role, they are either some kind of a tank with high HP and lower DPS or vice-versa.
But the DC has become more ambiguous with a more balanced rate of HP versus DPS, and neither are very good as a result. Additionally, because so many of our powers seem to be 'primarily' focussed on the heal, they feel weaker than they could be, and the heal aspect is rendered moot as described in the OP.
Not to mention if we choose a 'heal' power it feels like we are forgoing a 'real' power, making it seem like we have less arsenal to combat with. All this combines into a wishy-washy class that other players 1) can't seem to define very clearly or define as a healer role that just can't even do their job and 2) don't feel contributes much to party adventures (other than adding the buffing/debuffing aspect, which many can achieve through gear).
FORTUNATELY the Cleric is being heavily rewashed. Feats and Powers are currently being revisited and rehashed, we are finally going to see the major overhaul all the other classes have seen over the last several months. We have been rendered irrelevant, relegating us to the least-played class of all of them according to the most recent public stats released by Cryptic, so this overhaul is painfully overdue.
So the question is: what exactly do we want to be? What exactly should we be? Our healing is nerfed beyond recognition and twice as nerfed as it applies to ourselves. The pitiful fact: We are supposed to "healers" but can barely heal ourselves when a Warlock can out-heal any other class without pots and doubly-so on themselves *accidentally*.
I only hope the current reworking of DC class will be a genuine improvement overall: for all three - Solo, PvE, and PvP.
Why the hell I still love this class and stick with it is beyond me. I must be a subconsciously masochistic individual is all I can think of.
So are you trying to say a Warlock is a better healer than a DC?
A DC can do focused single target burst healing better. A DC can provide better mitigation buffs. A SW blows a DC out of the water for consistent aoe healing to the entire party.
That may be their role now (not by design i think) but if you look at the skill set "Healing" is the most important element in this class.
Devoted Clerics have following posibilites to heal others
Healing Word
Tab Healing
Sunburst
Forgemasters
Bastion of Health
Astral Seal
Astral Shield
Sacred Flame
Guardian of Faith
Hollowed Ground feated
Exaltation
and other feats to boost healing
lets look at what Scourge Warlocks have:
1 Feat
ahh right because of 1 feat they can outheal DC's who spend like dozens of featpoints for healing builds and uses multiple primary healing powers.
This argument "Clerics are supporters and no healers" is annoying me for some time now. I know and im fine with it to a certain extent but it doesnt justify everything.
No-one hates having some healing, as long as it doesn't gimp DPS too much. It's nice, letting you slack a bit on avoiding damage and using fewer pots. However, with the current PvE game as it is, it's a lot less crucial than in many MMOs.
Well then like half of my skills and feats are as usefull as an active companion in dungeons.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anyone shouldn't be experimenting with a Temptation SW- it's a new thing, and we want to know how it works. It's cool and interesting. I'm just a little exasperated at all the "ZOMG OUTHAEL DC" talk. It's like boasting that you can type faster than David Simon.
So carry on, number six.
Please tell me your wrong. Can I get a second opinion? However does this mean that SW is better support than a DC?
I know what you mean. Its probably because you're hoping it will get better because you love the concept of what the Cleric represents. When is this overhaul due?
I don't consider one better than the other. In fact I look at a temptation warlock and a cleric probably the best combination you can muster for dungeon running, as the temptation warlocks healing gives pivotal relief to the devoted cleric who often has to spend their divine power making healing circles instead of just defensive ones. With a temptation warlock, the cleric is now able to spend more of their divine power offensively instead of defensively.
Meh sounds like you're just saying that to be diplomatic.
Actually I am saying it as it is my experience having run multiple dungeons now that a devoted cleric who realizes that I am healing can spend more of their divine power offensively now.
Pretty much, the tempt is going to heal more points overall Because he is blanket healing everyone that is wounded all the time. What he can't do is say, "hey joe just caught a bad spike better focus on him." Also has none of the DC's debuff capacity. Which has me thinking. Soul bonding gives twice the Temp's LS to everyone in the party. So far the dominant meta has been DPS with LS to sustain. But to heal yourself with LS better than the Tempt can you need either twice the DPS or twice the LS the Tempt has. Would it be possible to run a debuff Cleric, I Tempt SW, and 3 DPS that took all their points out of LS and put them into power or Crit? Wouldn't the aggregate DPS be greater than a debuff DC and four DPS who spent all those points in LS? Just considering it.
This is not entirely true as the Temptation Warlock has some very powerful spells and when used properly, will hit a metric butt ton of damage. Not to mention a Temptation Warlock specced correctly is also providing debuffs and buffs to the party. But again I say that having a temptation warlock and a devotion cleric in the party is a lot better than measuring tiny epeens to pretend who is better in the end.
Well no I aggre that a Tempt can still do a ton of dam
age. That's why I find it unlikely that most other classes will be able to do twice the damage which is what they would need to LS for themselves at the same rate the SW can (if they had the same LS as the 'lock). My curiosity is how much more DPS I could get out of my other toons if I did not have to spend on LS for survivability. Which is what most of the player base seems to be doing...
My DPS is quite high. Barring tier 2 geared players, I usually top the number 1 spot, and since I am trying to work towards my tier 2 gear, I should be getting up there soon enough.
I see what you are getting at. The short answer would be something like: 1500 lifesteal traded for 1500 power (at 166 per 1%) would be 9% dps. That's a bit of an over simplification but give you a rough idea of what you might be looking at.
Its and interesting question but personally I would not trade too much of my self sufficiency away unless you have reliable access to a temptation warlock for parties and preferable a consistent group with decent team work to mitigate the limitations of the Temptation Warlocks healing model.
Axios Guild Officer,
Well right you wpould need a regular group. I could do it with my HR of GF because I have multiple full sets for both. But it could become a new definition for 'optimal'. Ok I am not a fanatic for the fastest run posible but I am interested in creating new dynamics.
How about a compromise, when they rework the cleric, they provide one single mega feat that lets clerics out dps warlocks :eek: Then when the warlocks complain about losing the paingiver to clerics most of the time, the stock answer will be: "you are there as healers"
Dude, why don't you try to step away from the computer take some deep breaths and calm down. Your rage suggestions don't help anyone.