there was a change to dualist flurry on preview and i must say im not impressed at all.
looks realy bad
it feels a bit faster but the jump is shorter and we cant cover so much ground anymore.
all in all its another small nerf.
i realy dont think change was necessary.
its not for the better thats for sure
ouch, I always liked that animation, we should tell the devs, maybe it's a mistake? I know the walking animation of TRs in prview is a bug, we should tell them, just to be sure.
Whilst the animation looks a little bit faster, the second strike seems to sort or stutter and stop halfway through its swing. Ive been able to jump and land a third strike, but this definately seems like a bug rather than intentioned.
It actually feels slower on preview. Like, I was getting a full four count on there, but barely more than three on live. The second hit's animation is definitely messed up, and the third hit doesn't seem to switch enemies as well/at all. On live I DF into a wave of underlevelled trash and each hit smoothly grabs the next mob up and kills it. On preview... It may or may not, it seems. I really hope I'm just imagining it. But I'm not sure I am. Yay, let's screw up TR more!
Yep, confirmed the following observations:
1) First strike is exactly the same as before. Can still move a bit afterward, seems about the same distance to me. Same duration.
2) Second strike has a pause delay at the end, before the flurry. Overall time from start to flurry is now slightly longer than before. Can no longer move any real distance between 2nd strike and flurry strikes, as you could previously, and changing targets or moving any from 2nd hit to flurry is far more difficult than before.
3) Flurry itself is about the same duration as previously, assuming you hit. It is much shorter if the Flurry itself fails to connect/hit anything, however (like walking around in PE), which is why it seems shorter to some. So that's a bit of an improvement, one could say.
Bleed from DF seems a hair more potent, at least to me. Higher values, on average (~+10-15%) than I recall seeing. 9k bleed ticks are possible at full stack on Trade of Blades dummies.
Wicked reminder does less damage to a single target now (-10% to -15%), on average, than before, and doesn't seem to be as affected by power stacking as previously. WR has done more damage than the tooltip suggests since Mod 2 (1?)....not any more. A shame as it has always been on my hotbar since beta. Might have to look at something else now. Of note, the cooldown clock on WR seems slower. Even with +23% recovery rate, it now takes a full "four tick count" (by my analog desk clock) on cooldown. Tooltip still says 3.2 seconds (normally about ~2.6 seconds for me, less if Dazzling Blades procs).
The small DR% debuff may now be for the TR only, rather than party wide, too...not enough testing yet to tell for sure.
My defense is higher, for some odd reason (up ~3%), and my gearscore shot up nearly 300 points vs. live (same build, same gear, etc).
Wicked reminder does less damage to a single target now (-10% to -15%), on average, than before, and doesn't seem to be as affected by power stacking as previously. WR has done more damage than the tooltip suggests since Mod 2 (1?)....not any more.
On a side note... good observation. I'm impressed.
I'm actually surprised to find someone noticed this aspect of WR. Not many TRs really experiment and study their class enough to really know what their skills/powers can do.
You are entirely correct. Currently WR is half about the debuffs and half about the damage itself, which is a lot more potent than one might realize.
With good amount of power and character setting WR can deal 5~7k crits on average. This may not seem impressive at all, but the point is that this is a 4 second encounter. In terms of damage done over set unit of time, WR spamming easily outdamages even the mighty Lashing Blades. Assuming average level of LB crits on mobs doing around 15~18k damage, LB takes around 20secs to recharge.
In that time you can use five WR attacks which;
■ amounts upto actually higher damage than any other encounter the TR has -- in terms of overall DPS
■ more attacks than other encounters = more AP gained
■ offers most numerous, repeated attempts to proc Action Rush = very fast AP gain
■ has no target limit
It's not just a debuff power -- it's actually a very potent attack. The drawback being it relies on "hordes of mediocre hits" rather than "one big hit", which, in some cases that require concentrated spiking damage, might not be desirable.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
On a side note... good observation. I'm impressed.
I'm actually surprised to find someone noticed this aspect of WR. Not many TRs really experiment and study their class enough to really know what their skills/powers can do.
You are entirely correct. Currently WR is half about the debuffs and half about the damage itself, which is a lot more potent than one might realize.
With good amount of power and character setting WR can deal 5~7k crits on average. This may not seem impressive at all, but the point is that this is a 4 second encounter. In terms of damage done over set unit of time, WR spamming easily outdamages even the mighty Lashing Blades. Assuming average level of LB crits on mobs doing around 15~18k damage, LB takes around 20secs to recharge.
In that time you can use five WR attacks which;
■ amounts upto actually higher damage than any other encounter the TR has -- in terms of overall DPS
■ more attacks than other encounters = more AP gained
■ offers most numerous, repeated attempts to proc Action Rush = very fast AP gain
■ has no target limit
It's not just a debuff power -- it's actually a very potent attack. The drawback being it relies on "hordes of mediocre hits" rather than "one big hit", which, in some cases that require concentrated spiking damage, might not be desirable.
Let's not forget they will remove additional AP gain from hitting multiple targets with WR. So now they are also "fixing the hardest applyable At-will move?! Very well, give them cake! Anyone elese wants cake or death?
On the flip side. the lack of longer jump before the flurry might remove this power out of PVP. The second delay is just realy bad... and looks awkward.
On a side note... good observation. I'm impressed.
I'm actually surprised to find someone noticed this aspect of WR. Not many TRs really experiment and study their class enough to really know what their skills/powers can do.
You are entirely correct. Currently WR is half about the debuffs and half about the damage itself, which is a lot more potent than one might realize.
With good amount of power and character setting WR can deal 5~7k crits on average. This may not seem impressive at all, but the point is that this is a 4 second encounter. In terms of damage done over set unit of time, WR spamming easily outdamages even the mighty Lashing Blades. Assuming average level of LB crits on mobs doing around 15~18k damage, LB takes around 20secs to recharge.
In that time you can use five WR attacks which;
■ amounts upto actually higher damage than any other encounter the TR has -- in terms of overall DPS
■ more attacks than other encounters = more AP gained
■ offers most numerous, repeated attempts to proc Action Rush = very fast AP gain
■ has no target limit
It's not just a debuff power -- it's actually a very potent attack. The drawback being it relies on "hordes of mediocre hits" rather than "one big hit", which, in some cases that require concentrated spiking damage, might not be desirable.
i dont know which game u play or in which universe u live in when u say wr has huge potential.
i have no idea why you insist that tr should debuff
cw and dc do that 500% times better
and if 5k crit is good single target dmg what is 20k non crit aoe dmg cw have on 7 sec encounter
but then again you just keep spamming same old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because some tr one shot u back in a day
and you have post traumatic stres disorder from trs.
i dont know which game u play or in which universe u live in when u say wr has huge potential.
i have no idea why you insist that tr should debuff
cw and dc do that 500% times better
and if 5k crit is good single target dmg what is 20k non crit aoe dmg cw have on 7 sec encounter
but then again you just keep spamming same old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because some tr one shot u back in a day
and you have post traumatic stres disorder from trs.
For certain scoundrel builds it have tremendous AP building potential for daily usage. That is IF you have a working build suited for that. The debuff thingy is just an addition, which helps your team. That is all.
For certain scoundrel builds it have tremendous AP building potential for daily usage. That is IF you have a working build suited for that. The debuff thingy is just an addition, which helps your team. That is all.
sure helped me a lot getting a party in last 10 months
some potential lol.
If you have trouble finding groups to run PVE content, I advice you to join the Legit channel. I've never have been turned down in there for being a TR.
If you have trouble finding groups to run PVE content, I advice you to join the Legit channel. I've never have been turned down in there for being a TR.
legit channel is great
but i play this game for fun
and tr doesnt have that feel to it any more
0
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited July 2014
I just tested flurry...
You can still jump around with it at final strike, you just can't change targets between first and second strike so easily anymore.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
I would add that after more testing, mainly me beating up on my old Icewind Dale adversaries the trolls and hammerstone dwarves for a hour, the overall sequence of DF is exactly as long in duration as it was before. (~4.1 seconds). The flurry is a hair shorter, the 2nd stroke (w/delay) a hair longer.
Comments
this is on preview right?
just when hes abouth to jump there is some sort of cramp
and he cant jump as high or long while cramping lol
but it looks worse thats for sure.
Will report back in a few minutes.
It looks so awkward, my char looks like a spastic now when casting it.
I swear there's someone that hates Rogues over at Dev team xDD
Making us into toothpick throwers AND making us look like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> hahaha
In retrospect, I was told that DF looked like a chicken flappin its wings in the early times of BETA
1) First strike is exactly the same as before. Can still move a bit afterward, seems about the same distance to me. Same duration.
2) Second strike has a pause delay at the end, before the flurry. Overall time from start to flurry is now slightly longer than before. Can no longer move any real distance between 2nd strike and flurry strikes, as you could previously, and changing targets or moving any from 2nd hit to flurry is far more difficult than before.
3) Flurry itself is about the same duration as previously, assuming you hit. It is much shorter if the Flurry itself fails to connect/hit anything, however (like walking around in PE), which is why it seems shorter to some. So that's a bit of an improvement, one could say.
Bleed from DF seems a hair more potent, at least to me. Higher values, on average (~+10-15%) than I recall seeing. 9k bleed ticks are possible at full stack on Trade of Blades dummies.
Wicked reminder does less damage to a single target now (-10% to -15%), on average, than before, and doesn't seem to be as affected by power stacking as previously. WR has done more damage than the tooltip suggests since Mod 2 (1?)....not any more. A shame as it has always been on my hotbar since beta. Might have to look at something else now. Of note, the cooldown clock on WR seems slower. Even with +23% recovery rate, it now takes a full "four tick count" (by my analog desk clock) on cooldown. Tooltip still says 3.2 seconds (normally about ~2.6 seconds for me, less if Dazzling Blades procs).
The small DR% debuff may now be for the TR only, rather than party wide, too...not enough testing yet to tell for sure.
My defense is higher, for some odd reason (up ~3%), and my gearscore shot up nearly 300 points vs. live (same build, same gear, etc).
you should link it
On a side note... good observation. I'm impressed.
I'm actually surprised to find someone noticed this aspect of WR. Not many TRs really experiment and study their class enough to really know what their skills/powers can do.
You are entirely correct. Currently WR is half about the debuffs and half about the damage itself, which is a lot more potent than one might realize.
With good amount of power and character setting WR can deal 5~7k crits on average. This may not seem impressive at all, but the point is that this is a 4 second encounter. In terms of damage done over set unit of time, WR spamming easily outdamages even the mighty Lashing Blades. Assuming average level of LB crits on mobs doing around 15~18k damage, LB takes around 20secs to recharge.
In that time you can use five WR attacks which;
■ amounts upto actually higher damage than any other encounter the TR has -- in terms of overall DPS
■ more attacks than other encounters = more AP gained
■ offers most numerous, repeated attempts to proc Action Rush = very fast AP gain
■ has no target limit
It's not just a debuff power -- it's actually a very potent attack. The drawback being it relies on "hordes of mediocre hits" rather than "one big hit", which, in some cases that require concentrated spiking damage, might not be desirable.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Let's not forget they will remove additional AP gain from hitting multiple targets with WR. So now they are also "fixing the hardest applyable At-will move?! Very well, give them cake! Anyone elese wants cake or death?
On the flip side. the lack of longer jump before the flurry might remove this power out of PVP. The second delay is just realy bad... and looks awkward.
i dont know which game u play or in which universe u live in when u say wr has huge potential.
i have no idea why you insist that tr should debuff
cw and dc do that 500% times better
and if 5k crit is good single target dmg what is 20k non crit aoe dmg cw have on 7 sec encounter
but then again you just keep spamming same old <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because some tr one shot u back in a day
and you have post traumatic stres disorder from trs.
For certain scoundrel builds it have tremendous AP building potential for daily usage. That is IF you have a working build suited for that. The debuff thingy is just an addition, which helps your team. That is all.
sure helped me a lot getting a party in last 10 months
some potential lol.
Why so serious? What will be next? A razorblade usage threat? It doesn't matter what car you are driving as long as you are winning the race.
and which race it that
legit channel is great
but i play this game for fun
and tr doesnt have that feel to it any more
You can still jump around with it at final strike, you just can't change targets between first and second strike so easily anymore.