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how are GWFs in mod4?
rotatorkuf
Member Posts: 537 Arc User
has anyone tested them out?
is the end nigh?
is the end nigh?
Post edited by rotatorkuf on
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Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
PS: Let us enter some dungeons for more testing :mad:
GWF's have had some adjustments, but overall will not change all that much. They haven't had any changes that will affect their DPS output. Mainly, their survivability and PvP chain-proning has been addressed. It's CW's that have been taken out behind the nerfing shed and been beaten to a pulp.
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
The unstoppable nerf has killed the class period. I used to be able to take my 19k GS GWF into IWD and solo a pack from a heroic encounter with ease. Which makes sense since you only need 10k GS to enter IWD and I'm sitting their with double that and full BI Gear with perfect enchants. Now when I do the same fight on the preview server I die in under 45 sec while living in unstoppable and potting health stones (not pots, but health stones for full hp) like their chicklets.
All these changes because people fail to comprehend what's going on around them...
You're joking right? You will be a DPS and its been reverted twice now to a ridiculous amount! 15%-30% DR whilst giving you the rest of unstoppables extras, on a DPS class! Stop whining... You want to be a Tank Spec for it!
gentlemancrush
Hey all, we have a few more changes hopefully hitting this week.
Unstoppable: Now grants 15~30% DR when activated (up from 10~20%).
Sprint: Stamina cost of Sprint reduced by roughly 40%.
Thank you all for your continued feedback!
Chris "Gentleman Crush" Meyer
Unstoppable should have remained 10% -20% this 30% BS is ridiculous! catering to the Overlord class AGAIN!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
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~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Please note how I DIDN't ask for a single neft to your class with my post. I actually was asking for buffs all around...
If that stays Sprints DR needs to be removed!
We will be right back to where we are now, GWFs beating a GF in every catergory AGAIN!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
As for not needing defence as a dps class, that's insane. When the big red circle comes up around the boss what does every other class do? TR, DC, CW, HR all just dodge and lose 1 sec off their dpsing. GF's just put their shield up. Without unstoppable where it is now, GWF's will have to run all the way out of the circle. Wait for the PBAOE to actually go off while standing there like a door ornament because they have no range skills. Then charge back in there once the boss's attack has gone off. Lord help them clearing trash mobs on the way to the boss as well as there's multiple red circles that will need to be run away from.
We are the TANK dude! Our new Stamina Guard cannot be lifted when ever we want as it diminishes very fast, you want to have better damage mitigation Spec for a TANK ALSO... You wanna destroy everything and be master of disaster thats fine, but you should not have better damage mitigation then a Tank specced as a tank. We only have immunity if we choose to not heal ourselves and it costs our AP! Whilst you just kill things and spam it! GWf should need to control his own aggro and allow the TANK to assist him. Or this whole idea will be moot!
We will be right back to where we are today! DPS GWF have already 32-35% dr then add unstoppable 30%? then a sprint which gives another immunity and another 40% DR? GTFO ridiculous!
Hrs are way tankier, might as well give CWs immunity bubble and call it a day! Hell why have any weakness at all? When DPS classes can survive without a Tank the game turns into what we have now!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Its 30%, not 40%, and sprint is still a pretty crappy as a dodging mechanic for PvE. The only place sprint is remotely useful is in PvP where you want to be highly mobile and stick to your opponent like glue or get out of the area as fast as possible to get a healing potion.
an overwhelming majority of a Destroyer GWF's damage come from going unstoppable early and often. that means that an OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of the time, Destro GWF's hit that Tab button as soon as they can.
so for the majority of DPS GWF's, 15% is all they'll see most of the time.
(BTW, you would know this if you actually played a DPS GWF)
You guys already have 30 -35% DR with 30% deflection when is enough enough? Then Swordmaster GF should be given 35% crit, 40% armor penetration a sweeping Cleave that does 300% damage then, screw game mechanics if DPS can be tank then Tank can be DPS!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
...what? How does that make sense? Unstoppable has NEVER used stamina. Also, if sprint is so good, why don't you never use unstoppable and only use sprint as a survival tool in Preview and see how well that works in a dungeon/PvP match (once queues are active).
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Spring. Is. HAMSTER. For. A. Stamina. Ability. For. PvE. Get. That. In. Your. Head.
The ONLY place it can be good is in PvP where all of the Q.Q is mainly from. A LOT of GWF would trade sprint for immunity frames through a dodge; its the most unreliable piece of HAMSTER dodge for avoiding red.
Edit: I don't know which came first (Warlock Sprint effect or the new GWF sprint effect). If it was the Warlock Sprint effect, then the devs literally just did copy+paste and set it up for GWF to save time and try and stop the complaints about survivability from GWF.
Also, Unstoppable is a CORE mechanic for GWF. So, any nerf to it doesn't only effect end game BiS players. It also effects players simply leveling up their new character and they don't have the choice to boost the DR until lvl 50 (or 51, can't remember where that capstone point comes in). You're HAMSTER over new people for a vendetta against BiS and high geared players, congratulations.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
That's partially because in end game, since everyone is so overgeared for the content, no tanks are needed at all. The only farmable dungeon has the gear score requirement of 9200 while people who farm it are 15-16k+ gear score. No tanks needed there because everything is burned to the ground in under 10 seconds.
Strange. If no tanks are needed, then why do DPS need such high survivability as they claim? I know it is not quite that simplistic but if you read the exaggerations that people naturally make from a personal bias you will see both points being argued by the same person within a a page or two apart (i.e. "I need the excess survivability or I die in a few hits" followed by "from my parses I can't see much of a difference so it doesn't hurt if you keep it so high as it doesn't help much (but don't remove it or I would die)"
You're supposed to die! Thats why the game made Tanks to hold threat for you, and oh ya a healing class to heal the party! Go figure.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Princess Amber - DC
Shieldmaiden Amber - GF
Valkyrie Amber - GWF
Huntress Amber - HR
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
As far as GWF goes (not going to comment on other dps classes because all of them have methods to get out of danger in PvE decently easily) they end up taking damage to the face whether they like it or not. Sprint is not reliable enough to avoid the damage from enemies, so Unstoppable is used to make up for the difference. The problem with nerfing Unstoppable to unreasonable levels (like the initial 5-10%) is that it makes leveling up and playing a non BiS GWF a hell in an of itself and you have no way of choosing otherwise until level 50.
An easier and more sensible way to go about the unstoppable change so that it won't affect new players would have been to simply leave Unstoppable alone and decrease it to the 15-30%, 12.5-25%, 10-20% (whatever) IF the player takes the Destroyer capstone. That would at least save the Instigator tree from getting neglected even more by forcing you to choose between ONLY Destroyer or Sentinel since only those 2 trees are worth anything.
The funny thing about the 30% upper limit is that it will almost never happen unless you get hit for half of your hp at once and your Determination bar skyrockets. Most people just go unstoppable the moment its available so that they can keep their Destroyer's Purpose stacks.
Turn sprint back to normal for all I care. Not a single GWF asked for this; it just looks like the devs threw it in there because the code was already available in the Warlock.
- The OP asked feedback by GWFs who actually tested end game content with GWF toons on preview. So GFs/ CWs/ TRs/ HRs/ DCs tipying angrily out of their own frustration about stuff they DID NOT TEST, is absolutely useless.
- From someone who tested the changes: Determination gain is much slower than before. Not fluctuating anymore, but way slower than on live. Which means, your usual GWF will be able to go unstoppable less in PvE and lose more HP before being able to go Unstoppable in PvP. Along with the DR reduction which is still noticeable (15-30% in place of 25-50% of the live version).
- Sprint is now defensive too, BUT sprint is a gap closing ability too. GWFs are a non-stealth melee class. Which means, they are constantly being hit and before being able to hit the enemy they need to actually reach it and catch it in between the blocks/ immunity moves all other classes have. Sprint gives DR but does not grant damage immunity like the moves for all the other classes. Which means it's still less effective as a defensive ability, and must still be done a choice if you want to actually use it for defense or to reach the enemy. Even more now that threat rush has been nerfed to 3 charges with 9 seconds cooldown.
- GWFs prones are gone. In place of the prones, now we have 2 secs of stun that are further reduced by tenacity. With these, the GWF must land its IBS. Flourish is still slow and easily dodged in PvP. Same for takedown. Frontline is now low damage AND 17 seconds cooldown with no prone. Takedown damage nerfed a ton too. Threat rush damage nerfed a lot too AND put on 3 charges+ cooldown as written above. Roar got not just fixed. It got fixed AND NERFED, since the base power from game release description was able to at least root the enemy, while right now it's at best a PvE ability to gain determination. Plus, damage was nerfed. Which was not really needed since the damage of Roar was already low...
Now, IF you actually play a GWF and you actually tested it (unlike some angry folks here) you pretty much know that OVERALL it's a noticeable nerf. With new changes to stamina and Unstoppable going from 10-20% to 15-30%, these nerfs hit less hard, but the strenght of the class is still heavily reduced in PvP, and a lot will change for PvE.
I think the changes are overall not as bad since they make the class probably more fun to play and give more options to build your toon. Nerfs on IV are probably a bit too much btw. In any case, if someone who does not even know the class still needs to whine and call GWFs OP, then please just go learn to play and learn the class. Just so that you can speak of something you actually know and tested, instead of tipying some angry, uninformed nonsense...
My overall opinion: threat rush still good to close the gap, just now it must be used wisely and is not OP anymore on GWFs. Same for Frontline. Base "passive" survivability still good for sentinels, lower for destroyers. Requires actually a good use of your mobility and footwork to be strong and survive. Which is good. Will probably need to be good to be effective, else you'll end up being kited by permastealth, HRs and CWs easily.
Expecially the lack of prones for PvP will make GWFs probably the hardest class to actually land a hit. It's actually harder to reach the enemy, plus roar does not even root and the only other ranged ability stuns for 2 seconds. This means you can stun, then you've to reach the enemy and by the time your takedown animation is over, the enemy will already be blocking/ dodging/ teleporting/ shifting immune. IBS can be landed only with the enemy being forced to do not move. Else it can be dodged easily.
Can be done with a fast takedown+ IBS combo, but then you need to actually chase a Perma/ pathfinder/ CW through all their dodges and immunities with sprint and may be threat rush+ punishing charge. Which means your damage will come from IBS alone, pretty much.
Frontline, as said, has long cooldown and now chip damage plus a too short stun...have yet to test if it's possible to frontline-threat rush-takedown-IBS. Anyone tasted it in PvP?
For the OP: i think GWFs are still viable for both PvE and PvP, but noticeably weaker than they are now on live. Both sentinels and destroyers.