If you want to keep these changes it's time to increase AP generation to balance the GWF in overview considering PVP and PVE.
GWFs actually have very good AP generation. You just need some 2800+ Recovery and as icing on the cake, pick up Unstoppable Action Heroic Feat.
As a GWF Destroyer who runs with 3200 Recovery (+1350 from AoW on top), I can use my dailies very often, especially due to the large amount of AP gain from IBS (which incidentally can be used more often with high recovery too)
GWFs actually have very good AP generation. You just need some 2800+ Recovery and as icing on the cake, pick up Unstoppable Action Heroic Feat.
As a GWF Destroyer who runs with 3200 Recovery (+1350 from AoW on top), I can use my dailies very often, especially due to the large amount of AP gain from IBS (which incidentally can be used more often with high recovery too)
How many of you folks that are complaining about Unstoppable have actually tested in on Preview? I have and it is good exactly where it is at the moment with 5-10%, where you need to use potions and step out of red circles rather than facetank them en masse.
Will it require you to adjust your build/items/enchants/companion actives? yes it will, but that is to be expected and a good thing. If you want to continue dealing the insane amount of damage as on live, you will have to sacrifice survivability for it now, rather than be able to have both.
Also, something to keep in mind: the old 25-50% rarely ever gave you as much as 50% in the first place due to the 80% reduction hard cap. Destroyer GWFs (unless complete glass cannons) tend to have around 48% DR already without party buffs, so you only had up to 32% DR boost from Unstoppable before anyway.
With the new Unstoppable, bringing a DC along will keep you at your 80% DR cap just as it does on Live and you won't notice any difference. The only folks noticing a difference are those who run dungeons without DCs (or DCs that heal)
48% unbuffed DR, on a PVE Destroyer? what.. the.. i can't even...
Maybe YOUR very strange low dps build that stacks defense beyond sane amount somehow does. They do NOT "tend" to have it, on any standard PVE build. Are you confusing GWF and GF?
Don't want to whine, these are just the results of my tests on preview with other skillled ppl in PvP.
Ok tested my GWF (Nevermind) against HR, TR, GWF, CW.
Current Gear on Preview: 2xInsigator Grim, 2xSentinel grim, Fomorian set, Regen-HP rings and Belt, Domination Cloack.
Enchantment Rank: all rank 9 Radiant in defense, 2x Rank 9 radiant 2x rank 10 dark in offense Slot.
Armor and Weapon Ench: Greater Barkshield - Greater Plaguefire.
Against HR: tested both builds as Destroyer and Sentinel: Destroyer lasts 10 sec with HR at half life, Sentinel lasts 15 but HR at full life. HRs have an insane self heal feat, if we hit them in unstoppable they refill all the life bar......no words.
Against TR perma stealth: Destroyer build is stll viable against TR but now is really easy to die against them. Sentinel build has no chance of win against a good TR; simply u don't do any significantly dmg to get them down.
Against GWF: not so much to say: both build are goods. Mostly depends of your pvp skill and gear of course.
Against CW: with GWF's stuns nerf u can't catch a good CW, no matter what build you use.
Considerations on stuns nerf: Pratically with a soft cap of 18-19% tenacity our stuns are usless cause they last for 0,3-0,5 sec so we don't have time to use IBS cause 90% of the times ppl can easly avoid it.
Most of the dmg come from Threatning Rush or some fast IBS in Unstoppable.
Considerations on Unstoppable Nerf:for Desteoyer build i could accept this nerf if we might be a kind of "glass cannon", but since the nerf on stuns all our dmg go wasted. With Sentinel Build we might have a lot of defense and deflect and normal Unstoppale, but this is not true. Without any kind of prone or at least 1 full sec stun we can't avoid any kind of encounter, daily. etc... so basically Sentinel build is usless: no dmg and wasted def.
I think that for now destroyer with a defense gear is still the way for pvp, but of course all these nerfs need a "little" change or we will have a server full of HR.
Still testing with others players with different builds, hope this post will help DEV in their "pvp balance" research.
P.S. sorry for my terrible english :P
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
Before using potions / Tymora / Pocket Pet / Potion of Heroism
Note that Armor Specialization feat doesn't reflect on Character sheet as well, but increases defense and AC by 15% each.
Something had to give way, and Unstoppable is a logical choice for that, because it steals too much thunder from the GF.
Hate to burst your bubble but with the changes as they are currently, GWF and GF will both be the unwanted classes in PVP.
Threatening Rush, Unstoppable, Takedown, Frontline, and Roar all have slated nerfs. If a player has tenacity and/or CC resist racial, IBS can be dodged after Takedown or Frontline. The class as is on the PTR cannot function in PVP. Maybe they are as good as the GF is currently? i.e. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
In PVE there still won't be any reason to bring a GF except in certain dungeons like SP, although other classes can do the job. The changes don't make GFs more valuable in PVE, instead they make DCs more valuable in PVE.
In PVP, GFs are better off than before despite the slated nerfs, but only by proxy because of the GWF nerfs. But it won't make GFs good, if will just become a matter of, pick your fat kid.
You don't have just 5-10% resist. the 5-10% is add on TOP of what you get from base stats and gear. Maybe you'll want to look at how that's set up if you were over-reliant on Unstoppable. In addition, you're not going at it alone; bring a healer or a tank along to help you stay alive while you dish out the damage.
It's a good change because GWFs shouldn't both be tankier than GFs AND do more damage. Now you have to choose one or the other, making more room for other classes.
There is a lot wrong with that...
1) 5-10% is not noticeable. You can measure the difference but you will not notice it.
2) During solo play you don't have a healer.
3) During leveling you don't have a choice you can make.
4) This is the first time the core mechanism of a class is made dependent of the paragon path you choose. That in itself is a bad thing.
5) The weaknesses of other classes should not be overcome by making other classes weaker.
6) As clearly stated by the devs the change was done due to PvP. Once again PvP ruins a class for all PvE players. Cryptic needs to find a solution to separate both. Tenacity is not used to do this as was proclaimed when introduced.
The whole world of PvP builds surrounds GWF right now. HR have high regen builds, TR have high regen builds, everyone is stacking defense because GWF. With the very very welcome Unstoppable nerf, we all can stop doing that and have much more variability.
Oh no, GWF has to go tanky and land 150k crits instead of 160k.
And you totally forget PvE. Once again PVP changes kill a class for PvE. Also you're forgetting that a GWF cannot dodge. Running away is not a real option because you'll get hit anyway often enough.
Look at it this way, the unstoppable nerf is basically like nerfing TR's stealth from 10 seconds to 2 seconds, what world do the devs live in to think that is an acceptable change? you cant take the special ability of a class and divide it by 5 on a whim, the game was very close to being balanced, a damage nerf to GWF was in order, along with a survivability nerf to HR, giving more CC to CW, buffing GF etc, why not try balancing what you have already worked on, instead of rethinking and reworking everything, you guys have no idea how broken the balance will be if these changes go through, why just why?
Exactly. I also don't get it why the core mechanism of the class gets changed. Also this is the first case where it is depending on the choices you make. Very, very bad.
Looking at the leader board the GWF isn't as dominating as claimed by the devs. Now it will be either easy to kill or will not be able to kill others.
So, yes there are definitely some GWF's with god-mode complexes who seem to think they are supposed to just be standing still...
They may be able to, especially after Mod 3, but they are not supposed to be able to face tank everything...
Well, it is not about being able to stand still all the time. You have to know when you can do it and when you'd better run.
You need to get a feel for the amount of damage you can take to get unstoppable and you'll be able to heal while being unstoppable and doing damage. This is part of the fun playing the GWF (this is my subjective opinion). If I'd prefer to always run from any red area I'd play a TR/CW/DC/HR... which btw. I also do.
With the chances you'd either have to run far too often for being efficient (you can't deal damage while running) or you'll deal way too less damage to be able to heal yourself (when choosing the Sentinel path). Also running is not always an option because you may somehow get "stuck". May be a bug. Doesn't matter though, the problem exists. Thing is you try to run away, the system doesn't let you get away. You get hit.
IMHO a GWF with a GS of 17k and more and Life Steal of 14% should be able to easily do most of the solo content. He also shouldn't get easily in trouble in dungeons, especially if the dungeon is rated for a much lower GS.
A bit? You must be kidding! 10% is not noticeable. It may be measured but you will not be able to notice it. Thus unstoppable was actually taken away from all GWFs of level 50 and lower who do not want to go Sentinel (I might be wrong with the level).
While unstoppable still gives CC immunity it doesn't help. It's damage that gets you killed. Not any prones, stuns, roots, etc.
The GF is worse than the GWF. I play both and don't deny that. But it is the wrong approach trying to fix a class by nerfing other classes.
It does not help anyone playing a GF in PvE or PvP when the GWF's Unstoppable gets nerfed. In solo PvE play other classes just do not matter. In group PvE it hurts the Group. Everything will just take longer. In PvP the GF is just to weak against most of the classes. Therefore nerfing one class will not make much of a difference for him.
Look, the dude in scale shouldent be as squishy as the TR. We have. No. Other. Option. Like all other's have said. We have no dodge, we have no stuns, we have. This. And this is being nerfed to near no effectiveness. Once again, as all other's have said, 15-30 is reasonable. 5-10 is not. Even at high levels, you have to have an answer to all those big circles. The TR has stealth, the GF has a block, we have this, and no matter how you slice it, deminishing it hurt's us. Badly.
Absolutely. The bonus from Unstoppable must be high enough to be noticeable. You cannot notice a difference of 10%. There's just too much randomness when damage is calculated. Therefore the bonus must be large. I even doubt that 30% is enough and would suggest 40% - if lowering it at all.
As said GWFs die in dungeons with the current system. The change will make it worse. I tried it.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2014
yeah these changes are counter intuitive to what a fighter is. A fighter isnt one to play rogue tactics in combat. they are on the front lines for a reason. At this rate. GWF's will spend more time running after people, missing attacks and trying not to get hit than a rogue without stealth.
Thats what GWF's are going to become now. rogues with big weapons that cant dodge or stealth.
GWF's dont just die in dungeons with these changes. They die in everything. Unstoppable is thier only sort of mitigation they have.
I like how Unstoppable SUDDENLY became a problem now, even though it was the same way for a year. If I wanted to play a squishy melee I would've picked TR.
I couldn't agree more. I also doubt that the differences in PvP (and this is a PvP change) are that huge to justify removing Unstoppable for all but Sentinel builds (10% doesn't make a noticeable difference and is like not having it at all). The leader board clearly shows that GWFs are not dominating. It is just not true. They are on par with HRs and TRs.
Those rants synthesizes in few lines as bad are mentality now the majority of GWF players and the God mode of a idiot proof class.
The remark on red areas and unstoppable is hilarius.
Well, seems like you don't understand the differences between the classes and how they can avoid damage.
CWs, DCs, HRs, and TRs can dodge attacks and take no damage. GFs can block and take no damage. GWFs cannot do this. They need to rely on unstoppable to do it. Also, they still take damage when unstoppable. Running away doesn't help because more often than not you get stuck and can't get away, or you take damage nevertheless.
My guess is you never played a GWF and don't know what you're talking about. There are lots of GWFs dying like flies during dungeon runs. I've been there and have seen it.
they why can I get out of red areas with my GWF with sprint? am I a mage or something?
of course if I take too long I can't do it, same with any dodge mechanic. If I take too long then I get hit.
Sometimes it just doesn't work. The GWF somehow gets stuck and can't get away. It may be a bug. Also sometimes you still get damaged after leaving a red zone.
Doesn't Change one thing though. Sprint is no dodge.
Like u wrote, most of the ppl didnt even test it, its just based on asumption. I have a 17k gwf destroyer and its fine, its great to be honest with daring shout i soloed those full party encounters in IWD. + i pvped against a equal destroyer when i was on my GF and he almost 2 shoted me (16k gf, with 45k life and caped def). Unstopable is ok, nobody is gona attack and get trough ur unstopable buff cuz ur still CC immune. The only problem is that when ur outnumbered ur gona fall much faster than before, and thats great. We are all tired of gwfs holding against of pack and even killing a whole pack of players.
Well they did it. They went and "improved" the lagging class(es) by nerfing the working class(es). There should be a benchmark, any class above certain power level ( lets say 15-16k GS for example ) should be able to perform a certain way in PVE, lets say solo a Totem in the Pass. Getting to such GS is by no means easy nor it is cheap so its not unreasonable to expect great things from a toon I invested so much in (time/money)
Lets go to the Pass then. I've been there with my two characters, both fighters. My GWF who is a 17K Destroyer can solo a Totem on live with good footwork, Avalance of Steel and some pots. My 15.2K GF cannot. On Preview the GF fails much harder then on Live so the only outcome from the dev's "rebalancing" is that the GWF now also fails.
But wait I get your message devs. You're telling me "spend more of your precious time and money, grind away and get your GWF to 18-19K, then you'll be able to do what you can do now even with the scrapped unstoppable". I have my answer to that but since your forums are PG-13 I'll stick to visual aid..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Good job, guys. I especially like the change to Unstoppable.
Currently destroyers run ahead of everybody else in dungeons, aggroing everything and can still survive while dealing massive amounts of damage and with no risk of dying at all. This basically makes GFs useless and makes their life terribly difficult in doing their job if they are present.
The best way to run dungeons at the moment is aggroing everything in one place and nuking it, that's why CW and GWF are the best classes in dungeon runs. With the changes you made this will be more difficult and more cooperation between classes will be needed.
Thumbs up (both of them)!
Nonsense. You may be able to do this with a high end GWF having 18k GS and massive amounts of Life Steal - and only in some dungeons.
IMHO it is ok that a high end GWF can do this (in some dungeons). If there was hardly any difference between a 18k GWF and a 10k GWF in a 9k GS dungeon where's the point in increasing stats?
Also think about the low GS GWF players. They will have a hard time doing any dungeons because they will die more often and will get frustrated.
I feel that the Unstoppable change will hurt leveling GWFs and low GS GWFs to a point where they might not want to play the class (or the game) any longer. I'm playing a GWF for a year now and know how it feels to constantly die in dungeons. Has this been considered by the devs?
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fr3akout3Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 72
edited June 2014
Tested on Preview Shard with H3adache, Unstoppable is a joke now.
It does not reduce any damage at all, can't even notice. It seems like the DESTROYER should be renamed to Big Chicken from now on.
Devs, if you listen. Please change Unstoppable back to where it was for PVE or at least 15-35% minimum. You can have it at 5-10% for PVP is you wish.
You have simply killed the class, as the GWF is not going to be useful as he has. He will be running and hiding where the TR's will perform a better job by the looks of it now. Unstoppable needs to be reworked and the damage should not be changed in any way for the GWF as you need to build it anyway which makes it now so much harder as you need to maintain it and build it by having petty much no Unstoppable at all. Just a Big Balloon GWF
The changes on the PTR and previewshard forums are way over the top. Unstoppable should be getting a buff of increased damage resistance increase to something around 75-95% damage reduction.
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The changes on the PTR and previewshard forums are way over the top. Unstoppable should be getting a buff of increased damage resistance increase to something around 75-95% damage reduction.
Now thats just ridiculous on the other end of the ridiculous scale.
GWF changes. This is what needs to happen. Roll back everything, and apply this.
Roar stopped from going through CC immunity.
Prones should respect CC resist and tenacity
Sentinel gwf's instead should get increased damage resistances in unstoppable but a decrease in damage by at most 15% while in unstoppable
Takedown's damage was fine, always has been. Having prone respect cc resist and tenacity is enough.
Mark changes are fine.
Threatening rush should fully recharge after 9 seconds regardless of how many charges are left.
GWF's have been fine and balanced up until they got iron vanguard.It was in the most balanced state GWF's have ever been (minutes the bug feats at the time) before that they were fine, and the reason being is because prone locking. But this wouldnt even be an issue if prones respected CC resist like every other CC effect in the game.
Thats all. Its really not that hard to figure that out for this class. Its simple, to the point, and doesnt rearrange the entire class and keeps them relevant and barely much different than how people play them now, leaving all the options and playstyles and builds still open without making GWF's non-stealth, non dodging rogues.
Edit: I cant get on preview right now, but can someone check on Roar. Does it just put a skill on cooldown when interrupted or does it just daze targets like interrupting shot does?
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gabrieldourdenMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,212Arc User
Nonsense. You may be able to do this with a high end GWF having 18k GS and massive amounts of Life Steal - and only in some dungeons.
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Nope. One of my guildies is a 17k GWF with 1300 Life Steal and I see him doing it regularly in dungeons like Spellplague and Karrundax.
If you think 1300 is massive then you´re right, but I don´t think it is (I have a similar amount on my HR, 1260 actually, and are not obsessively stacking it).
Le-Shan: HR level 80 (main)
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I hope you can do CN, MC, VT, Kessel, etc with a rainbow party. I encourage you, if you even try this, to make a video, upload it to youtube and paste here the link, surely, most of us will be impressed about such feat .
Isnt it great that some dungeons will be very hard to complete and only the most skilled will be able to do it? Thats what this game is missing. Every dungeon can be walked trough with current setup (cws, gwfs).. Current way is just pure farming, and where is fun in farm? The most epic moments i had in PVE is whn i was ungeared newbie when every t2 dung was a big challenge..
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reagenlionel1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Isnt it great that some dungeons will be very hard to complete and only the most skilled will be able to do it? Thats what this game is missing. Every dungeon can be walked trough with current setup (cws, gwfs).. Current way is just pure farming, and where is fun in farm? The most epic moments i had in PVE is whn i was ungeared newbie when every t2 dung was a big challenge..
These GWF's whose gearscores are in 15k+ dont even NEED to do these dungeons. They're far passed the dungeon requirements already. These dungeons are the same ones from a year ago when the highest gearscores were just pushing 12k. If a GWF at GS 15k cant farm a these dungeons and breeze through them in a party. Thats a prime fundamental problem.
Comments
GWFs actually have very good AP generation. You just need some 2800+ Recovery and as icing on the cake, pick up Unstoppable Action Heroic Feat.
As a GWF Destroyer who runs with 3200 Recovery (+1350 from AoW on top), I can use my dailies very often, especially due to the large amount of AP gain from IBS (which incidentally can be used more often with high recovery too)
hell yeah JUST 2800+ recovery
/inserts facepalm
48% unbuffed DR, on a PVE Destroyer? what.. the.. i can't even...
Maybe YOUR very strange low dps build that stacks defense beyond sane amount somehow does. They do NOT "tend" to have it, on any standard PVE build. Are you confusing GWF and GF?
apparently he also has 2.8k+ recovery, and states 3.2k + aow is a common occurance on top of that.
Just a troll apparently.
Ok tested my GWF (Nevermind) against HR, TR, GWF, CW.
Current Gear on Preview: 2xInsigator Grim, 2xSentinel grim, Fomorian set, Regen-HP rings and Belt, Domination Cloack.
Enchantment Rank: all rank 9 Radiant in defense, 2x Rank 9 radiant 2x rank 10 dark in offense Slot.
Armor and Weapon Ench: Greater Barkshield - Greater Plaguefire.
Against HR: tested both builds as Destroyer and Sentinel: Destroyer lasts 10 sec with HR at half life, Sentinel lasts 15 but HR at full life. HRs have an insane self heal feat, if we hit them in unstoppable they refill all the life bar......no words.
Against TR perma stealth: Destroyer build is stll viable against TR but now is really easy to die against them. Sentinel build has no chance of win against a good TR; simply u don't do any significantly dmg to get them down.
Against GWF: not so much to say: both build are goods. Mostly depends of your pvp skill and gear of course.
Against CW: with GWF's stuns nerf u can't catch a good CW, no matter what build you use.
Considerations on stuns nerf: Pratically with a soft cap of 18-19% tenacity our stuns are usless cause they last for 0,3-0,5 sec so we don't have time to use IBS cause 90% of the times ppl can easly avoid it.
Most of the dmg come from Threatning Rush or some fast IBS in Unstoppable.
Considerations on Unstoppable Nerf:for Desteoyer build i could accept this nerf if we might be a kind of "glass cannon", but since the nerf on stuns all our dmg go wasted. With Sentinel Build we might have a lot of defense and deflect and normal Unstoppale, but this is not true. Without any kind of prone or at least 1 full sec stun we can't avoid any kind of encounter, daily. etc... so basically Sentinel build is usless: no dmg and wasted def.
I think that for now destroyer with a defense gear is still the way for pvp, but of course all these nerfs need a "little" change or we will have a server full of HR.
Still testing with others players with different builds, hope this post will help DEV in their "pvp balance" research.
P.S. sorry for my terrible english :P
Before using potions / Tymora / Pocket Pet / Potion of Heroism
Note that Armor Specialization feat doesn't reflect on Character sheet as well, but increases defense and AC by 15% each.
can u pm me ur GWF ign?
Excuse me.Could you tell me your deflect come from what equipment piece by piece please.I just want to collect info to overcome the unstopppable nerf.
Hate to burst your bubble but with the changes as they are currently, GWF and GF will both be the unwanted classes in PVP.
Threatening Rush, Unstoppable, Takedown, Frontline, and Roar all have slated nerfs. If a player has tenacity and/or CC resist racial, IBS can be dodged after Takedown or Frontline. The class as is on the PTR cannot function in PVP. Maybe they are as good as the GF is currently? i.e. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>
In PVE there still won't be any reason to bring a GF except in certain dungeons like SP, although other classes can do the job. The changes don't make GFs more valuable in PVE, instead they make DCs more valuable in PVE.
In PVP, GFs are better off than before despite the slated nerfs, but only by proxy because of the GWF nerfs. But it won't make GFs good, if will just become a matter of, pick your fat kid.
There is a lot wrong with that...
1) 5-10% is not noticeable. You can measure the difference but you will not notice it.
2) During solo play you don't have a healer.
3) During leveling you don't have a choice you can make.
4) This is the first time the core mechanism of a class is made dependent of the paragon path you choose. That in itself is a bad thing.
5) The weaknesses of other classes should not be overcome by making other classes weaker.
6) As clearly stated by the devs the change was done due to PvP. Once again PvP ruins a class for all PvE players. Cryptic needs to find a solution to separate both. Tenacity is not used to do this as was proclaimed when introduced.
Absolutely. The only classes not being able to dodge IBS are the GF and GWF. The GF may or may not be able to block, the GWF may be able to run away.
IBS just takes too long to hit. It is easily dodged. Without prone it'll be wasted more than often.
And you totally forget PvE. Once again PVP changes kill a class for PvE. Also you're forgetting that a GWF cannot dodge. Running away is not a real option because you'll get hit anyway often enough.
Exactly. I also don't get it why the core mechanism of the class gets changed. Also this is the first case where it is depending on the choices you make. Very, very bad.
Looking at the leader board the GWF isn't as dominating as claimed by the devs. Now it will be either easy to kill or will not be able to kill others.
Well, it is not about being able to stand still all the time. You have to know when you can do it and when you'd better run.
You need to get a feel for the amount of damage you can take to get unstoppable and you'll be able to heal while being unstoppable and doing damage. This is part of the fun playing the GWF (this is my subjective opinion). If I'd prefer to always run from any red area I'd play a TR/CW/DC/HR... which btw. I also do.
With the chances you'd either have to run far too often for being efficient (you can't deal damage while running) or you'll deal way too less damage to be able to heal yourself (when choosing the Sentinel path). Also running is not always an option because you may somehow get "stuck". May be a bug. Doesn't matter though, the problem exists. Thing is you try to run away, the system doesn't let you get away. You get hit.
IMHO a GWF with a GS of 17k and more and Life Steal of 14% should be able to easily do most of the solo content. He also shouldn't get easily in trouble in dungeons, especially if the dungeon is rated for a much lower GS.
A bit? You must be kidding! 10% is not noticeable. It may be measured but you will not be able to notice it. Thus unstoppable was actually taken away from all GWFs of level 50 and lower who do not want to go Sentinel (I might be wrong with the level).
While unstoppable still gives CC immunity it doesn't help. It's damage that gets you killed. Not any prones, stuns, roots, etc.
The GF is worse than the GWF. I play both and don't deny that. But it is the wrong approach trying to fix a class by nerfing other classes.
It does not help anyone playing a GF in PvE or PvP when the GWF's Unstoppable gets nerfed. In solo PvE play other classes just do not matter. In group PvE it hurts the Group. Everything will just take longer. In PvP the GF is just to weak against most of the classes. Therefore nerfing one class will not make much of a difference for him.
Absolutely. The bonus from Unstoppable must be high enough to be noticeable. You cannot notice a difference of 10%. There's just too much randomness when damage is calculated. Therefore the bonus must be large. I even doubt that 30% is enough and would suggest 40% - if lowering it at all.
As said GWFs die in dungeons with the current system. The change will make it worse. I tried it.
Thats what GWF's are going to become now. rogues with big weapons that cant dodge or stealth.
GWF's dont just die in dungeons with these changes. They die in everything. Unstoppable is thier only sort of mitigation they have.
I couldn't agree more. I also doubt that the differences in PvP (and this is a PvP change) are that huge to justify removing Unstoppable for all but Sentinel builds (10% doesn't make a noticeable difference and is like not having it at all). The leader board clearly shows that GWFs are not dominating. It is just not true. They are on par with HRs and TRs.
Well, seems like you don't understand the differences between the classes and how they can avoid damage.
CWs, DCs, HRs, and TRs can dodge attacks and take no damage. GFs can block and take no damage. GWFs cannot do this. They need to rely on unstoppable to do it. Also, they still take damage when unstoppable. Running away doesn't help because more often than not you get stuck and can't get away, or you take damage nevertheless.
My guess is you never played a GWF and don't know what you're talking about. There are lots of GWFs dying like flies during dungeon runs. I've been there and have seen it.
Sometimes it just doesn't work. The GWF somehow gets stuck and can't get away. It may be a bug. Also sometimes you still get damaged after leaving a red zone.
Doesn't Change one thing though. Sprint is no dodge.
Lets go to the Pass then. I've been there with my two characters, both fighters. My GWF who is a 17K Destroyer can solo a Totem on live with good footwork, Avalance of Steel and some pots. My 15.2K GF cannot. On Preview the GF fails much harder then on Live so the only outcome from the dev's "rebalancing" is that the GWF now also fails.
But wait I get your message devs. You're telling me "spend more of your precious time and money, grind away and get your GWF to 18-19K, then you'll be able to do what you can do now even with the scrapped unstoppable". I have my answer to that but since your forums are PG-13 I'll stick to visual aid..
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Nonsense. You may be able to do this with a high end GWF having 18k GS and massive amounts of Life Steal - and only in some dungeons.
IMHO it is ok that a high end GWF can do this (in some dungeons). If there was hardly any difference between a 18k GWF and a 10k GWF in a 9k GS dungeon where's the point in increasing stats?
Also think about the low GS GWF players. They will have a hard time doing any dungeons because they will die more often and will get frustrated.
I feel that the Unstoppable change will hurt leveling GWFs and low GS GWFs to a point where they might not want to play the class (or the game) any longer. I'm playing a GWF for a year now and know how it feels to constantly die in dungeons. Has this been considered by the devs?
It does not reduce any damage at all, can't even notice. It seems like the DESTROYER should be renamed to Big Chicken from now on.
Devs, if you listen. Please change Unstoppable back to where it was for PVE or at least 15-35% minimum. You can have it at 5-10% for PVP is you wish.
You have simply killed the class, as the GWF is not going to be useful as he has. He will be running and hiding where the TR's will perform a better job by the looks of it now. Unstoppable needs to be reworked and the damage should not be changed in any way for the GWF as you need to build it anyway which makes it now so much harder as you need to maintain it and build it by having petty much no Unstoppable at all. Just a Big Balloon GWF
Now thats just ridiculous on the other end of the ridiculous scale.
GWF changes. This is what needs to happen. Roll back everything, and apply this.
Roar stopped from going through CC immunity.
Prones should respect CC resist and tenacity
Sentinel gwf's instead should get increased damage resistances in unstoppable but a decrease in damage by at most 15% while in unstoppable
Takedown's damage was fine, always has been. Having prone respect cc resist and tenacity is enough.
Mark changes are fine.
Threatening rush should fully recharge after 9 seconds regardless of how many charges are left.
GWF's have been fine and balanced up until they got iron vanguard.It was in the most balanced state GWF's have ever been (minutes the bug feats at the time) before that they were fine, and the reason being is because prone locking. But this wouldnt even be an issue if prones respected CC resist like every other CC effect in the game.
Thats all. Its really not that hard to figure that out for this class. Its simple, to the point, and doesnt rearrange the entire class and keeps them relevant and barely much different than how people play them now, leaving all the options and playstyles and builds still open without making GWF's non-stealth, non dodging rogues.
Edit: I cant get on preview right now, but can someone check on Roar. Does it just put a skill on cooldown when interrupted or does it just daze targets like interrupting shot does?
Nope. One of my guildies is a 17k GWF with 1300 Life Steal and I see him doing it regularly in dungeons like Spellplague and Karrundax.
If you think 1300 is massive then you´re right, but I don´t think it is (I have a similar amount on my HR, 1260 actually, and are not obsessively stacking it).
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Isnt it great that some dungeons will be very hard to complete and only the most skilled will be able to do it? Thats what this game is missing. Every dungeon can be walked trough with current setup (cws, gwfs).. Current way is just pure farming, and where is fun in farm? The most epic moments i had in PVE is whn i was ungeared newbie when every t2 dung was a big challenge..
These GWF's whose gearscores are in 15k+ dont even NEED to do these dungeons. They're far passed the dungeon requirements already. These dungeons are the same ones from a year ago when the highest gearscores were just pushing 12k. If a GWF at GS 15k cant farm a these dungeons and breeze through them in a party. Thats a prime fundamental problem.