Conclusion: Fixing the set (its actually not a nerf but a fix) is a good thing. It already reduces the effectiveness of the set per definition of about 50%. The fix that it doesnt trigger from dots and stuff is also very welcomed.
But dont lower the chance and FOR TYMORAS SAKE dont install an ICD because it renders the healing effect useless. See the calculation.
If u really implement this just delete the heal effect. Because its underpowered as hell but many players wont even get it because they dont know how ICDs work with additional RNGs. For them it sounds good but its actually very bad.
I wonder about the nerf if its overkill. But what I would say is compare it to other sets as well, Because comparing it against what it was it will seem like a MASSIVE nerf as you explained.
GWF Profound Set: Gives 7.5% deflect (around 3.25% DR) and Encounters slow opponents. Thats kinda meh, TBH Id rather take a heal off a deflect even if its only 400 (after HD) thats still alot.
Even compare it to the T1 thats broken ATM: It heals 5-10% determined by unstoppable bar. Most times I pop unstoppable its around the 50% so (5%) mark. Well How many times do I get to heal 5%? Not as much as the HR set that heals 2%... Id wager the Profound HR set post change if you ACT it will still be pretty amazing healing...
a GF just gets 30% more block meter and run speed... Id rather take the heal LOL! I mean in perspective its really still not a bad set or "worthless".
With DOTs affecting it, id almost bet that if some1 is attacking you, youll probably have a proc about every 2-3 seconds anyways... So think of it like adding an extra 400 regen tick for your 4 pc when being attacked... Thats pretty good IMO...
I wonder about the nerf if its overkill. But what I would say is compare it to other sets as well, Because comparing it against what it was it will seem like a MASSIVE nerf as you explained.
GWF Profound Set: Gives 7.5% deflect (around 3.25% DR) and Encounters slow opponents. Thats kinda meh, TBH Id rather take a heal off a deflect even if its only 400 (after HD) thats still alot.
Even compare it to the T1 thats broken ATM: It heals 5-10% determined by unstoppable bar. Most times I pop unstoppable its around the 50% so (5%) mark. Well How many times do I get to heal 5%? Not as much as the HR set that heals 2%... Id wager the Profound HR set post change if you ACT it will still be pretty amazing healing...
a GF just gets 30% more block meter and run speed... Id rather take the heal LOL! I mean in perspective its really still not a bad set or "worthless".
With DOTs affecting it, id almost bet that if some1 is attacking you, youll probably have a proc about every 2-3 seconds anyways... So think of it like adding an extra 400 regen tick for your 4 pc when being attacked... Thats pretty good IMO...
Other classes don't depend on their sets for their strength like HR does. Basically the whole reason HRs are considered contenders with GWFs and TRs is because of the set bonus working as it does now.
Other classes don't depend on their sets for their strength like HR does. Basically the whole reason HRs are considered contenders with GWFs and TRs is because of the set bonus working as it does now.
Well GWFs are getting a damage nerf, their T1 set is nerfed, unstoppable recovery will be nerfed (affected by HD now too) and Roar is getting a fix soon too.
I think this fix, along with GWF fixes will make some of the other classes a little stronger, with GWF/HRs doing much less self healing a DC now has more value to the group and if GWFs damage and tankyness are toned down a tad, a good CW can lay waste under the right situations to both classes.
If you mean contender due to their ability to node hold 1v1 then I guess I would ask, do you think an HR should be the best node holder? Who should it be?
IN my opinion I think Fighter class specced tanky (like a GF) or a DC mechanically should be the best holders 1v1. Not a damage dealing class, however in this game its ended up that the damage dealers (TR/HR/GWF) have been the best. Thats where I think pvp fails.
You know, if they just removed contesting from PVP that would make the game SO much more fun. Then it would be a much bigger teamwork game over just a class comp META game. Since you couldnt just stick a TR or w.e onto a node to prevent points, youd actually have to cap the node to do that.
Well GWFs are getting a damage nerf, their T1 set is nerfed, unstoppable recovery will be nerfed (affected by HD now too) and Roar is getting a fix soon too.
I think this fix, along with GWF fixes will make some of the other classes a little stronger, with GWF/HRs doing much less self healing a DC now has more value to the group and if GWFs damage and tankyness are toned down a tad, a good CW can lay waste under the right situations to both classes.
If you mean contender due to their ability to node hold 1v1 then I guess I would ask, do you think an HR should be the best node holder? Who should it be?
IN my opinion I think Fighter class specced tanky (like a GF) or a DC mechanically should be the best holders 1v1. Not a damage dealing class, however in this game its ended up that the damage dealers (TR/HR/GWF) have been the best. Thats where I think pvp fails.
You know, if they just removed contesting from PVP that would make the game SO much more fun. Then it would be a much bigger teamwork game over just a class comp META game. Since you couldnt just stick a TR or w.e onto a node to prevent points, youd actually have to cap the node to do that.
We'll see about the GWF damage nerf. Mostly likely it will be insufficient so basically for PVP it's back to either GWF or TR, so instead of 3 powerful classes we'll have 2. Not really a move towards balance IMO.
Your ideas about cap-holding is all well and good but they're unlikely to change the mechanics of domination.
Btw, you know that your OP isn't even true right now, right? Meditation doesn't heal an HR to full, especially if you're doing decent damage to him.
wonder about the nerf if its overkill. But what I would say is compare it to other sets as well, Because comparing it against what it was it will seem like a MASSIVE nerf as you explained
My calculations show that this nerf makes the healing set bonus UTTERLY bad. I would rather not have it and just the 20% run speed because for someone who understands ICDs and rng, with the quoted nerf the bonus is a joke. Even with bis-gear, super high hp pvp build and the profound bonus.
Now imagine an average HR with the heroic set bonus and 26k hp. Look at the numbers. You cannot honestly say this is useful at all. I would take ANY set bonus from ANY class specific gear instead if this new crappy healing bonus.
Pls, be honest and maybe read my post again where I calculated the numbers. PLS be honest, forgetting one sec the hard time u GFs have in pve and pvp at the moment.
U cant deny that with this nerf the healing bonus IS HAMSTER!
No one will use this set again . Just find a new solution to play with. It s not hard to find. Example... with the new 650 tenacity ring you can basically use the royal guard set and get a 30 per cent CDR on encounters.
No one will use this set again . Just find a new solution to play with. It s not hard to find. Example... with the new 650 tenacity ring you can basically use the royal guard set and get a 30 per cent CDR on encounters.
Welcome to the world of GF.. (hint we have had two sets turfed)
0
futuunMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Good catch. That fix should also go in the same patch as the HR set changes. I will just make that obey Healing Depression and see how that feels first.
EDIT: Also found Unstoppable Recovery wasn't obeying healing depression. FIX'D!
The Hunter Ranger PVP sets are currently providing far too much healing and some changes are coming to them.
1. They will now correctly obey Healing Depression.
2. They will now have a 2 second ICD
3. They will now have a 50% chance to trigger on a successful deflect (down from 75%).
I will also look at effects triggering it that are not damage, but that is a much deeper issue that will require more work. I do not have a direct timeline for this hitting live at this time, but keep your eyes peeled on preview for upcoming balance changes.
Fixing Healing Depression on the set bonus is a good thing. But please reconsider the 2s ICD at least. That's a long time in PvP combat and basically renders the set bonus healing useless when coupled with the drop in chance from 75% to 50% per deflected attack. Especially as only Combat HRs run with really high deflect.
Fixing Healing Depression on the set bonus is a good thing. But please reconsider the 2s ICD at least. That's a long time in PvP combat and basically renders the set bonus healing useless when coupled with the drop in chance from 75% to 50% per deflected attack. Especially as only Combat HRs run with really high deflect.
im suprised the ICD ill be only 2 sec i do rather make it 5-10sec.
The issue is that this procs off of DoTs and even at 50% you can be easily hit 5-6 times at once with all the damage DOTs classes have + boons today. The screens above showing Ferocious Reation proccing like 4/5 times shows this)
So if your hit 5x at once, @ 35k HP, well lets just say only 2 of those are deflected... and one of them procs the set, thats 420 healing (post depression) So I hit you once and you get 420 HP? My regen ticks are about 1100-1200 ish at half life every three seconds! Thats absurd.
What I think would be the IDEAL is that it didnt proc off DoTs but they said that was more complicated, so I think they are trying to make it more inline with the actual intention... Its supposed to be a CHANCE proc in the big scheme of things.
Realistically you will get a proc about every 2-3 seconds if your being attacked. The nature of all the DOTs in this game people have like TR/GWF (the two classes most ppl play) are HUGE. Your going to be getting hit easily close to 4-5 times per second, and your going to deflect atleast 2 of those hits meaning like I said almost every 3 seconds youll get the heal for 420 HP. Thats an amount thats pretty large still in comparison to your regen.
If you regen 1200-1300 every 3 seconds this adds 420 every three seconds all the time, not just at 50% HP. Think of the EHP this is adding.
Compare this to a Legendary Emblem.... It heals what 450 every second for 15 seconds within 2 minutes? the 4/4 is better... I bet youll get more than 15 procs within 2 minutes. With a potential for up to 60 procs within 2 mins.
Compare that to Waters which is currently bugged and heals call it 9k over 2 minutes? That = 21 procs of your 4/4 so its almost inline with waters.
Once waters is fixed the 4/4 will blow it away as well...
Im not saying the nerf is harsh, but inlight of everything else similar... its actually pretty inline...
GWF profound gives 7.5% deflect... Id take your deflect/heal over that.
Thats an amount thats pretty large still in comparison to your regen.
What you're not understanding is this set is keeping us in line with the top 2 RIGHT NOW (GWF is a little stronger, TR is a little weaker). Any nerf at all is going to disrupt that balance. HRs have zero CC-escape moves and zero Godmode moves like Unstoppable or stealth. This set was the key to their survivability.
Fixing the healing depression alone would be one thing, cutting the healing in half. That's huge. Most people would be ok with it though since everything should obey healing depression.
But adding the 2 second ICD and 50% chance to proc (on deflects which are already only 20-30% to begin with in most deflect builds HRs run with), and you're looking at a totally useless set, and adding another class to the subpar classes in PVP.
Realistically you're looking at this thing proccing once every 10 attacks or so. Let's say over 100 attacks you get 10 procs for 450 each, that's 4,500 healing.
Compared to what we're getting now which is like 30 procs for 900 (I don't get that much but let's say it is). So that's 27,000 healing.
That's quite significant.
And you need to stop eyeing up the nerfed set for your GWF. Your OP GWF doesn't need the set to be competitive, HR does. Of course your GWF would take it- your class is OP as hell and can wear anything and still be tanky and kill everyone.
Basically it's akin to a set giving your GWF the ability to use unstoppable, and then nerfing it to where it only worked once every 5 minutes, and then a GF coming in and saying he would still use the set. Come on!
Also, still waiting for you to admit this thread is BS. Forest meditation doesn't heal you to full, even with a small dot on you.
The ONLY time it gives significant heals is if you do the absolute worst things possible, like hitting him with low hitting at-wills and Dot enchants, like those GFs in that video.
Forest meditation is useful now basically to buy some time and not much more. The nerf totally takes it out of the equation.
So let's just destroy any counterplay the game has. Good job. You may proceed to spam your at-wills and abilities whenever they're off cooldown and kill every other class in the game on your GWF.
Enjoy your game with only 2 classes in the top 100 instead of 3. Way to improve PVP. Get rid of node-contesting in your sig and then TR's are out and you'll have achieved your goal of having the only good class in PVP.
I would really hate to be a Dev for this game. They can't catch a break, especially on the PvP side. Until everyone realizes that their particular class should not be the uber class, the back and forth nerfs (a.k.a. adjustments) will never stop. TRs complain about stealth, people want Roar to be "fixed", DCs have to deal with less self- healing and now this.
Remember - not everyone plays PvP. Changes in PvP are necessarily carried over to PvE. Remember PvE? I'd guess that the vast majority of people play PvE but the vast majority of forum users are PvP.
No one is getting paid to play this game so why do we all spend so much time worrying that one class or another has an unfair advantage? Play or QQ - the choice is yours.
FYI - I play an HR, GF and a GWF. Each class has it's own issues.
This is good data.
So if your hit 5x at once, @ 35k HP, well lets just say only 2 of those are deflected... and one of them procs the set, thats 420 healing (post depression) So I hit you once and you get 420 HP? My regen ticks are about 1100-1200 ish at half life every three seconds! Thats absurd.
Don't compare deflect heal and regen directly. Deflect heal needs to get hit while regen doesn't. Yes, deflected dots proc it even if they are 1 damage. But, why you use dots? For GWFs, to gain Destroyer's Purpose stacks faster? Yeah, 40% damage buff is nice and you get it almost instantly with your dot enchant and/or Deep Gash under Unstoppable.
Comments
I wonder about the nerf if its overkill. But what I would say is compare it to other sets as well, Because comparing it against what it was it will seem like a MASSIVE nerf as you explained.
GWF Profound Set: Gives 7.5% deflect (around 3.25% DR) and Encounters slow opponents. Thats kinda meh, TBH Id rather take a heal off a deflect even if its only 400 (after HD) thats still alot.
Even compare it to the T1 thats broken ATM: It heals 5-10% determined by unstoppable bar. Most times I pop unstoppable its around the 50% so (5%) mark. Well How many times do I get to heal 5%? Not as much as the HR set that heals 2%... Id wager the Profound HR set post change if you ACT it will still be pretty amazing healing...
a GF just gets 30% more block meter and run speed... Id rather take the heal LOL! I mean in perspective its really still not a bad set or "worthless".
With DOTs affecting it, id almost bet that if some1 is attacking you, youll probably have a proc about every 2-3 seconds anyways... So think of it like adding an extra 400 regen tick for your 4 pc when being attacked... Thats pretty good IMO...
Other classes don't depend on their sets for their strength like HR does. Basically the whole reason HRs are considered contenders with GWFs and TRs is because of the set bonus working as it does now.
Well GWFs are getting a damage nerf, their T1 set is nerfed, unstoppable recovery will be nerfed (affected by HD now too) and Roar is getting a fix soon too.
I think this fix, along with GWF fixes will make some of the other classes a little stronger, with GWF/HRs doing much less self healing a DC now has more value to the group and if GWFs damage and tankyness are toned down a tad, a good CW can lay waste under the right situations to both classes.
If you mean contender due to their ability to node hold 1v1 then I guess I would ask, do you think an HR should be the best node holder? Who should it be?
IN my opinion I think Fighter class specced tanky (like a GF) or a DC mechanically should be the best holders 1v1. Not a damage dealing class, however in this game its ended up that the damage dealers (TR/HR/GWF) have been the best. Thats where I think pvp fails.
You know, if they just removed contesting from PVP that would make the game SO much more fun. Then it would be a much bigger teamwork game over just a class comp META game. Since you couldnt just stick a TR or w.e onto a node to prevent points, youd actually have to cap the node to do that.
We'll see about the GWF damage nerf. Mostly likely it will be insufficient so basically for PVP it's back to either GWF or TR, so instead of 3 powerful classes we'll have 2. Not really a move towards balance IMO.
Your ideas about cap-holding is all well and good but they're unlikely to change the mechanics of domination.
Btw, you know that your OP isn't even true right now, right? Meditation doesn't heal an HR to full, especially if you're doing decent damage to him.
My calculations show that this nerf makes the healing set bonus UTTERLY bad. I would rather not have it and just the 20% run speed because for someone who understands ICDs and rng, with the quoted nerf the bonus is a joke. Even with bis-gear, super high hp pvp build and the profound bonus.
Now imagine an average HR with the heroic set bonus and 26k hp. Look at the numbers. You cannot honestly say this is useful at all. I would take ANY set bonus from ANY class specific gear instead if this new crappy healing bonus.
Pls, be honest and maybe read my post again where I calculated the numbers. PLS be honest, forgetting one sec the hard time u GFs have in pve and pvp at the moment.
U cant deny that with this nerf the healing bonus IS HAMSTER!
Before Mod3, HR PvP set bonus was actually under the effect of Healing Depression.
Mod3 broke it.
Data from PvP domination match:
pre Mod3(with Nature's Blessing feat)
http://i.imgur.com/WKh4hqE.jpg
post Mod3(same but higher max HP)
http://i.imgur.com/8sA8NBb.jpg
Welcome to the world of GF.. (hint we have had two sets turfed)
Waters of Elah'zad also ignores healing depression.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Also... no idea why it proced 6 times in that screenshot.. but that's definitely not a consistent bug, never happened for me.
It only procs once for me.
One could actually make a case that since it removes all negative effects, it could remove healing depression before procc'ing.
Probably not intentional though.
Lots of things seem to be able to process multiple times because of GPF.
This is good data.
The issue is that this procs off of DoTs and even at 50% you can be easily hit 5-6 times at once with all the damage DOTs classes have + boons today. The screens above showing Ferocious Reation proccing like 4/5 times shows this)
So if your hit 5x at once, @ 35k HP, well lets just say only 2 of those are deflected... and one of them procs the set, thats 420 healing (post depression) So I hit you once and you get 420 HP? My regen ticks are about 1100-1200 ish at half life every three seconds! Thats absurd.
What I think would be the IDEAL is that it didnt proc off DoTs but they said that was more complicated, so I think they are trying to make it more inline with the actual intention... Its supposed to be a CHANCE proc in the big scheme of things.
Realistically you will get a proc about every 2-3 seconds if your being attacked. The nature of all the DOTs in this game people have like TR/GWF (the two classes most ppl play) are HUGE. Your going to be getting hit easily close to 4-5 times per second, and your going to deflect atleast 2 of those hits meaning like I said almost every 3 seconds youll get the heal for 420 HP. Thats an amount thats pretty large still in comparison to your regen.
If you regen 1200-1300 every 3 seconds this adds 420 every three seconds all the time, not just at 50% HP. Think of the EHP this is adding.
Compare this to a Legendary Emblem.... It heals what 450 every second for 15 seconds within 2 minutes? the 4/4 is better... I bet youll get more than 15 procs within 2 minutes. With a potential for up to 60 procs within 2 mins.
Compare that to Waters which is currently bugged and heals call it 9k over 2 minutes? That = 21 procs of your 4/4 so its almost inline with waters.
Once waters is fixed the 4/4 will blow it away as well...
Im not saying the nerf is harsh, but inlight of everything else similar... its actually pretty inline...
GWF profound gives 7.5% deflect... Id take your deflect/heal over that.
What you're not understanding is this set is keeping us in line with the top 2 RIGHT NOW (GWF is a little stronger, TR is a little weaker). Any nerf at all is going to disrupt that balance. HRs have zero CC-escape moves and zero Godmode moves like Unstoppable or stealth. This set was the key to their survivability.
Fixing the healing depression alone would be one thing, cutting the healing in half. That's huge. Most people would be ok with it though since everything should obey healing depression.
But adding the 2 second ICD and 50% chance to proc (on deflects which are already only 20-30% to begin with in most deflect builds HRs run with), and you're looking at a totally useless set, and adding another class to the subpar classes in PVP.
Realistically you're looking at this thing proccing once every 10 attacks or so. Let's say over 100 attacks you get 10 procs for 450 each, that's 4,500 healing.
Compared to what we're getting now which is like 30 procs for 900 (I don't get that much but let's say it is). So that's 27,000 healing.
That's quite significant.
And you need to stop eyeing up the nerfed set for your GWF. Your OP GWF doesn't need the set to be competitive, HR does. Of course your GWF would take it- your class is OP as hell and can wear anything and still be tanky and kill everyone.
Basically it's akin to a set giving your GWF the ability to use unstoppable, and then nerfing it to where it only worked once every 5 minutes, and then a GF coming in and saying he would still use the set. Come on!
Also, still waiting for you to admit this thread is BS. Forest meditation doesn't heal you to full, even with a small dot on you.
The ONLY time it gives significant heals is if you do the absolute worst things possible, like hitting him with low hitting at-wills and Dot enchants, like those GFs in that video.
Forest meditation is useful now basically to buy some time and not much more. The nerf totally takes it out of the equation.
So let's just destroy any counterplay the game has. Good job. You may proceed to spam your at-wills and abilities whenever they're off cooldown and kill every other class in the game on your GWF.
Enjoy your game with only 2 classes in the top 100 instead of 3. Way to improve PVP. Get rid of node-contesting in your sig and then TR's are out and you'll have achieved your goal of having the only good class in PVP.
Remember - not everyone plays PvP. Changes in PvP are necessarily carried over to PvE. Remember PvE? I'd guess that the vast majority of people play PvE but the vast majority of forum users are PvP.
No one is getting paid to play this game so why do we all spend so much time worrying that one class or another has an unfair advantage? Play or QQ - the choice is yours.
FYI - I play an HR, GF and a GWF. Each class has it's own issues.
Yeah I remember it from when I played my CW and GWF. Nobody wants an HR for a group.
After this nerf goes through there will be basically no reason to play the class at all.
Now will someone please pass the bubble wrap. Or at least some Tylenol...
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
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