Really? Show me a single GWF that hasn't sacrificed offense with 41k HPs.
Really this is getting stupid. Look at all the GWFs topping the leaderboards, every single one of them give up offense for +hps, every single one. Why don't you see GFs do this? Because all the smart GF players switched to GWF.
Before I give you the proof which is very easy, I just want to ask, do you like to PvP? Because you looked surprise when I mentioned that GWF with 39k-ish (maybe a r'10s) HP can hit like a truck, which is very common.
If what you meant by sacrificing offensive stats is by not having the same amount of power as a PvE GWF, then we're not on the same page. Because in PvP you don't have to have insane amount of power to hit hard.
ITT GF players who don't even know what bonuses their attributes give.
Feel free to stop posting anytime.
I / We know are feats and I bet if looked at you will see I've purchased more retraining tokens then anyone in the last 2 months! I have respecced multiple different ways and the mechanics of the GF cannot, I repeat CANNOT compete in tankiness in comparison to the GWF.
Just trying to get our Deflection in the 20+% is a miracle in and of itself! We are either very low dps with minor extra DR, or Extra DPS with minor less DR! Neither of which helps our survivability!
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
0
lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
I've purchased more retraining tokens then anyone in the last 2 months! I have respecced multiple different ways
Same here... I've wasted SOOOOOO much AD/IRL money on training tokens ALONE! I keep trying to find needle in the hay stack, but I'm starting to think there isn't one lol.
Before I give you the proof which is very easy, I just want to ask, do you like to PvP? Because you looked surprise when I mentioned that GWF with 39k-ish (maybe a r'10s) HP can hit like a truck, which is very common.
If what you meant by sacrificing offensive stats is by not having the same amount of power as a PvE GWF, then we're not on the same page. Because in PvP you don't have to have insane amount of power to hit hard.
You specifically said a GWF didn't have to sacrifice offense in PVP and often go up to 41k HPs, I called you out and told you that you're wrong. And I still stand by it. You aren't going to find any GWFs with 41k hps, even with r10s, that haven't sacrificed some offense for defense, period.
Ah yes, then you said we aren't on the same page. I was just going by what you wrote not by what you were secretly thinking.
It's like I've mentioned on forums before, GFs are IMO weakest class in PVP currently. But if someone is gunna QQ about GFs being weak, don't spout nonsense and bull.
GFs are not the weakest in PvP, by a fairly wide margin. PvP at the moment is all about chaining prones, and GFs have a lot of those. Plus they're pretty tanky. Can't hit anything like as hard as a GWF (who also have a lot of prones and are pretty tanky), but compared to tissuepaper CWs and hilarious DCs suffering under an effective 70-85% self healing reduction, GFs in PvP are not doing too badly.
0
psychaos999Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Again dumb *** out of context. Technically speaking if the GWF wants the actual DR of a tanky GF he will do <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for damage. I never said he needed to as 40% DR is plenty. Quit acting like Fox news and twisting my words.
Diminishing returns and not the OP GWF is what is hurting the GF if you are only looking at stats. He may have alot more defense than the GWF but only 6% more DR. Diminishing returns really starts to kick you in the teeth above 3k defense. Its why I never go past 2500 def on any of my characters. The return to what I get after that just isn't worth it. Plus a 40% DR is really all you need. You take that DR plus the DR you get from unstoppable plus the DR you get from a cleric and you have hit the globla DR cap of 80%. You just don't need anymore than 40% base in my opinion as a GWF.
Which means you are free to put more points into offense related stats.
You gwfs are shameless. You defend a class that hit like a truck, can sustain heavy damage, is immune to cc, can heal herself and more, against a class like gf?!?! The fact that nobody wants or needs a GF in his party don't ring any bell?
You specifically said a GWF didn't have to sacrifice offense in PVP and often go up to 41k HPs, I called you out and told you that you're wrong. And I still stand by it. You aren't going to find any GWFs with 41k hps, even with r10s, that haven't sacrificed some offense for defense, period.
Ah yes, then you said we aren't on the same page. I was just going by what you wrote not by what you were secretly thinking.
It's like I've mentioned on forums before, GFs are IMO weakest class in PVP currently. But if someone is gunna QQ about GFs being weak, don't spout nonsense and bull.
Where did I say that GF is weak? I said GWF can hit hard and being tanky at the same time. And GF can only choose 1, being tanky or hit hard, even tho would still not hit as hard as a tanky GWF and would still not as tanky as a GWF with 12k IBS.
This is from the Gateway so you know he'll have more HP ingame. Maybe around 39k.
Unfortunately, he's using 2 Ring of Greater Repulsion instead of 2 Greater Ring of Health. Using the latter would make him reach 40k-ish, and I can tell from his offensive stats, he hits hard.
Where did I say that GF is weak? I said GWF can hit hard and being tanky at the same time. And GF can only choose 1, being tanky or hit hard, even tho would still not hit as hard as a tanky GWF and would still not as tanky as a GWF with 12k IBS.
This is from the Gateway so you know he'll have more HP ingame. Maybe around 39k.
Unfortunately, he's using 2 Ring of Greater Repulsion instead of 2 Greater Ring of Health. Using the latter would make him reach 40k-ish, and I can tell from his offensive stats, he hits hard.
Going off of my Gateway stats, that guy has;
- 1000 less power than I have and I only achieve that stat thanks to the Conqueror cap stone.
- 900 less defense than my GF, however, at 3500 defense you start moving into diminishing returns, so the difference will be negligible. At the most I will have 3.5% more DR.
- 500 more deflection PLUS a class passive that will give him a sweet 8% deflect chance, so he quite easily has 10%+ more deflect than I have. A far bigger difference than my advantage in defense.
- twice the crit I have.
- 700 more arpen than I have.
TheN he has Unstoppable to further mitigate damage as well as Sprint to flee. He can also pop Unstoppable and use up sprint to get away from a CC-death situation. On the other hand a GF without his shield (which is no match for Unstoppable) is easily controlled and put to death. His offensive stats are also tied to weapons and subsequently powers that hit much harder.
Really, a GWF's offensive sacrifices while achieving survivability are negligible. This guy will also get through a dungeon run faster than my PVP-specced GF.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
- 1000 less power than I have and I only achieve that stat thanks to the Conqueror cap stone.
- 900 less defense than my GF, however, at 3500 defense you start moving into diminishing returns, so the difference will be negligible. At the most I will have 3.5% more DR.
- 500 more deflection PLUS a class passive that will give him a sweet 8% deflect chance, so he quite easily has 10%+ more deflect than I have. A far bigger difference than my advantage in defense.
- twice the crit I have.
- 700 more arpen than I have.
TheN he has Unstoppable to further mitigate damage as well as Sprint to flee. He can also pop Unstoppable and use up sprint to get away from a CC-death situation. On the other hand a GF without his shield (which is no match for Unstoppable) is easily controlled and put to death. His offensive stats are also tied to weapons and subsequently powers that hit much harder.
Really, a GWF's offensive sacrifices while achieving survivability are negligible. This guy will also get through a dungeon run faster than my PVP-specced GF.
You know there was a wide spread delusion that taking crit away from Deep Gash makes Sentinels negligible as far as damage is concerned. People even talked about selling their Vorpal ( and some did change ). The reality today is that some heavily geared Senties equipped with either P.Vorpal or a G.Plaguefire have massive crit chance ( Weapon Master ), massive deflect ( weapon master/bravery/ + another feat ), super run speed ( Bravery/sprint), massive HP, defence capped, more than enought ArmPen and to top it off 4000-5000 power which might seem low but if you count in the frequent Vorpal enhanced crits and the armpen leads to great sustained damage and makes them almost as fearsome in PVP as they used to be.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You know there was a wide spread delusion that taking crit away from Deep Gash makes Sentinels negligible as far as damage is concerned. People even talked about selling their Vorpal ( and some did change ). The reality today is that some heavily geared Senties equipped with either P.Vorpal or a G.Plaguefire have massive crit chance ( Weapon Master ), massive deflect ( weapon master/bravery/ + another feat ), super run speed ( Bravery/sprint), massive HP, defence capped, more than enought ArmPen and to top it off 4000-5000 power which might seem low but if you count in the frequent Vorpal enhanced crits and the armpen leads to great sustained damage and makes them almost as fearsome in PVP as they used to be.
I didn't even factor in Sentinels, but you are correct, a full-blown post-Mod 4 PVP Sentinel will still out DPS a GF while being tankier.
The 'nerfed' SotS and Deep Gash are superior to anything the Conqueror tree offers a GF.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Just wanted to add something. The STATs you see here are what a full DPS Destroyer (in pvp gear ) looks like. As you can tell he does lose defensive capability. Ingame Power goes to ~8500, Crit is at 4000, ArmPen at 2000. If it wasnt for Unstoppable and LifeSteal Id die alot in IWD.. So, true glass cannons are indeed made of glass..
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Someone probably mentioned this before, but its due to unstoppable giving tons of DR. GWF also get superior defensive passives and encounters (not that gwf even need use daring shout). GF skills are generally lackluster.
GF tab skill needs to be buffed alot, give GF DR when the mark is on or something on par with the rest.
The reality today is that some heavily geared Senties equipped with either P.Vorpal or a G.Plaguefire have massive crit chance ( Weapon Master ), massive deflect ( weapon master/bravery/ + another feat ), super run speed ( Bravery/sprint), massive HP, defence capped, more than enought ArmPen and to top it off 4000-5000 power which might seem low but if you count in the frequent Vorpal enhanced crits and the armpen leads to great sustained damage and makes them almost as fearsome in PVP as they used to be.
I've been a proponent that IV/Sent is still very good in PVP and just as viable as Destroyer, despite their damage being nerfed by 20-40% depending on crit change/enchant. But there are other reasons that people go Destroyer even though it isn't necessarily better, at the top of the list most likely being that Sentinel is no longer good in PVE.
Sentinel is better at point holding, backcapping, and contesting than Destroyer. It is just as good as Destroyer is now.
The thing is, Destroyer got buffed, Sentinel got nerfed. GWFs now have two viable PVP specs that are equally as good as each other. Of course, look around the forums, even a bunch of GFs claiming that GWFs got buffed in mod 3. It's illusionary, it's false.
0
guille23mxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
edited June 2014
Only I have to say is this:
CRYPTIC I KNOW YOU HATE GF'S BUT WILL ASK THIS ONCE MORE:
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME RUNNNING SPEED AS THE GWF....
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME TAB ABILITY AS THE GWF...CC INMUNNE AND GOD EASY MODE HEALING UNSTOPABLE
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME WEAPON DAMAGE AS THE GWF 1000 (NOT 600)
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME HITTING SPEED AS THE GWF (EVEN WITH THE LITTLE SPEED BUFF IN UNSTOPABLE U GAVE TO GWF)
-GIVE MY GF A GOD **** REAL SHIELD , NOT A TISSUE PAPER LIKE UR GIVEN US. ONE THAT CAN SUSTAIN 100 HITS GOD DAMMIT!
-GIVE MY GF A INSTANT RAISE SHIELD, NOT A .5 SEC AFTER LIKE WE ARE NOW. INSTANT !!
AND YEAH AFTER ALL THAT.
WHEN U ARE ROLLING YOUR DEVS EXCURSIONS AND OPEN WORLD PVP ...U SHOULD PROBABLY RUN FROM US... AS PROBABLY
YOU ALWAYS USE YOUR VERY MUCH LOVED AND PREFERED CLASES... HR, TR, CW, GWF
AS THINGS ARE NOW... U DONT HAVE THE BALLS WE DO TO RUN A GF IN DWARVEN VALLEY.
ENOUGH SAID
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guille23mxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
edited June 2014
Ohh... And 1 last comment:
Probably that last nerfed on the gf was probably about some good gf thrashing some dev... So he traumatized and go and punish the whole class!! For life apparently!! Would love some devs to run some pvp on a gf vs a high end premade guild ... Lol
0
katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited June 2014
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME WEAPON DAMAGE AS THE GWF 1000 (NOT 600)
Why should a longsword have the same damage as a greatsword? Are you high?
By the way, you had a year to make a new main. And I somehow don't remember there being this many whiners back when GWF was "bad". I wonder why.
AND YEAH AFTER ALL THAT.
WHEN U ARE ROLLING YOUR DEVS EXCURSIONS AND OPEN WORLD PVP ...U SHOULD PROBABLY RUN FROM US... AS PROBABLY
YOU ALWAYS USE YOUR VERY MUCH LOVED AND PREFERED CLASES... HR, TR, CW, GWF
AS THINGS ARE NOW... U DONT HAVE THE BALLS WE DO TO RUN A GF IN DWARVEN VALLEY.
ENOUGH SAID
Before any mod put a ban or however:Consider and think:Does th Op telling lies?have we ever saw a dev video of playing a GF?hell no.
GWFs/Hrs sometimes Cws and Dcs all the way.
guille is frustrated and angry:
if you were a Gf and not a 16k gs GWF ,you would be the same.
Seeing your class getting no love from devs for nearly a year.Instead nerfs nerfs and new nerfs.
0
guille23mxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 340Arc User
Why should a longsword have the same damage as a greatsword? Are you high?
By the way, you had a year to make a new main. And I somehow don't remember there being this many whiners back when GWF was "bad". I wonder why.
This guy thinks hes smart by deviating the Subject and trying to invalidate my Others Points.
Am I High? Maybe u should try a GF buddy and ill wait for u here in the forums to come and QQ with me . Pff
0
katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
edited June 2014
I have and have played with every class, including GF with around 14,5K GS, since I don't play that much and am focusing on one character for IWD.
And by the way my GF has 33% deflect chance, please tell me again how hard it is to get deflect as a GF.
guille is frustrated and angry:
if you were a Gf and not a 16k gs GWF ,you would be the same.
Seeing your class getting no love from devs for nearly a year.Instead nerfs nerfs and new nerfs.
I can see that, and I am not saying he should be content with where GFs are currently. They definitely need some love from the Devs, which the Devs have said they will be looking into.
Seeing your class getting no love from devs for nearly a year.Instead nerfs nerfs and new nerfs.
Once again, not disagreeing that they need some love...
My point is such posts, as the one in question, do nothing for the class in general. Patience, no matter how frustrating, and mature communication will go so much farther! :cool:
GWF wasn't even bad in beta for what PvP concerns, heck the most broken build involved them. Assuming you could afford the PSF, GPF and Greater Tenebrous enchants.
Although enchants being the most OP factor actually made PvP more balanced in a ways. Again, if you could afford it.
And beta isn't relevant, really. What matters is the now, the current state of the game.
Exactly yet they have received the MOST attention and are now the most powerful class in the game whilst GF sit in his room waiting to be picked to play for a team.
Shieldbash60 GF ~ Iron Vanguard19.0k Overpowered60 CW~ Thaumaturge14.5k ==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Comments
If what you meant by sacrificing offensive stats is by not having the same amount of power as a PvE GWF, then we're not on the same page. Because in PvP you don't have to have insane amount of power to hit hard.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Feel free to stop posting anytime.
Also, which GF stat gives tons of tankiness AND tons of arpen?
I'd love to know.
I / We know are feats and I bet if looked at you will see I've purchased more retraining tokens then anyone in the last 2 months! I have respecced multiple different ways and the mechanics of the GF cannot, I repeat CANNOT compete in tankiness in comparison to the GWF.
Just trying to get our Deflection in the 20+% is a miracle in and of itself! We are either very low dps with minor extra DR, or Extra DPS with minor less DR! Neither of which helps our survivability!
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
Same here... I've wasted SOOOOOO much AD/IRL money on training tokens ALONE! I keep trying to find needle in the hay stack, but I'm starting to think there isn't one lol.
You specifically said a GWF didn't have to sacrifice offense in PVP and often go up to 41k HPs, I called you out and told you that you're wrong. And I still stand by it. You aren't going to find any GWFs with 41k hps, even with r10s, that haven't sacrificed some offense for defense, period.
Ah yes, then you said we aren't on the same page. I was just going by what you wrote not by what you were secretly thinking.
It's like I've mentioned on forums before, GFs are IMO weakest class in PVP currently. But if someone is gunna QQ about GFs being weak, don't spout nonsense and bull.
You gwfs are shameless. You defend a class that hit like a truck, can sustain heavy damage, is immune to cc, can heal herself and more, against a class like gf?!?! The fact that nobody wants or needs a GF in his party don't ring any bell?
This is from the Gateway so you know he'll have more HP ingame. Maybe around 39k.
Unfortunately, he's using 2 Ring of Greater Repulsion instead of 2 Greater Ring of Health. Using the latter would make him reach 40k-ish, and I can tell from his offensive stats, he hits hard.
Going off of my Gateway stats, that guy has;
- 1000 less power than I have and I only achieve that stat thanks to the Conqueror cap stone.
- 900 less defense than my GF, however, at 3500 defense you start moving into diminishing returns, so the difference will be negligible. At the most I will have 3.5% more DR.
- 500 more deflection PLUS a class passive that will give him a sweet 8% deflect chance, so he quite easily has 10%+ more deflect than I have. A far bigger difference than my advantage in defense.
- twice the crit I have.
- 700 more arpen than I have.
TheN he has Unstoppable to further mitigate damage as well as Sprint to flee. He can also pop Unstoppable and use up sprint to get away from a CC-death situation. On the other hand a GF without his shield (which is no match for Unstoppable) is easily controlled and put to death. His offensive stats are also tied to weapons and subsequently powers that hit much harder.
Really, a GWF's offensive sacrifices while achieving survivability are negligible. This guy will also get through a dungeon run faster than my PVP-specced GF.
You know there was a wide spread delusion that taking crit away from Deep Gash makes Sentinels negligible as far as damage is concerned. People even talked about selling their Vorpal ( and some did change ). The reality today is that some heavily geared Senties equipped with either P.Vorpal or a G.Plaguefire have massive crit chance ( Weapon Master ), massive deflect ( weapon master/bravery/ + another feat ), super run speed ( Bravery/sprint), massive HP, defence capped, more than enought ArmPen and to top it off 4000-5000 power which might seem low but if you count in the frequent Vorpal enhanced crits and the armpen leads to great sustained damage and makes them almost as fearsome in PVP as they used to be.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
I didn't even factor in Sentinels, but you are correct, a full-blown post-Mod 4 PVP Sentinel will still out DPS a GF while being tankier.
The 'nerfed' SotS and Deep Gash are superior to anything the Conqueror tree offers a GF.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
GF tab skill needs to be buffed alot, give GF DR when the mark is on or something on par with the rest.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I've been a proponent that IV/Sent is still very good in PVP and just as viable as Destroyer, despite their damage being nerfed by 20-40% depending on crit change/enchant. But there are other reasons that people go Destroyer even though it isn't necessarily better, at the top of the list most likely being that Sentinel is no longer good in PVE.
Sentinel is better at point holding, backcapping, and contesting than Destroyer. It is just as good as Destroyer is now.
The thing is, Destroyer got buffed, Sentinel got nerfed. GWFs now have two viable PVP specs that are equally as good as each other. Of course, look around the forums, even a bunch of GFs claiming that GWFs got buffed in mod 3. It's illusionary, it's false.
CRYPTIC I KNOW YOU HATE GF'S BUT WILL ASK THIS ONCE MORE:
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME RUNNNING SPEED AS THE GWF....
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME TAB ABILITY AS THE GWF...CC INMUNNE AND GOD EASY MODE HEALING UNSTOPABLE
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME WEAPON DAMAGE AS THE GWF 1000 (NOT 600)
-GIVE MY GF THE SAME HITTING SPEED AS THE GWF (EVEN WITH THE LITTLE SPEED BUFF IN UNSTOPABLE U GAVE TO GWF)
-GIVE MY GF A GOD **** REAL SHIELD , NOT A TISSUE PAPER LIKE UR GIVEN US. ONE THAT CAN SUSTAIN 100 HITS GOD DAMMIT!
-GIVE MY GF A INSTANT RAISE SHIELD, NOT A .5 SEC AFTER LIKE WE ARE NOW. INSTANT !!
AND YEAH AFTER ALL THAT.
WHEN U ARE ROLLING YOUR DEVS EXCURSIONS AND OPEN WORLD PVP ...U SHOULD PROBABLY RUN FROM US... AS PROBABLY
YOU ALWAYS USE YOUR VERY MUCH LOVED AND PREFERED CLASES... HR, TR, CW, GWF
AS THINGS ARE NOW... U DONT HAVE THE BALLS WE DO TO RUN A GF IN DWARVEN VALLEY.
ENOUGH SAID
Probably that last nerfed on the gf was probably about some good gf thrashing some dev... So he traumatized and go and punish the whole class!! For life apparently!! Would love some devs to run some pvp on a gf vs a high end premade guild ... Lol
By the way, you had a year to make a new main. And I somehow don't remember there being this many whiners back when GWF was "bad". I wonder why.
And he really was bad, no need for qutation marks. I wish GWF and GF were just two paths of the same class.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Before any mod put a ban or however:Consider and think:Does th Op telling lies?have we ever saw a dev video of playing a GF?hell no.
GWFs/Hrs sometimes Cws and Dcs all the way.
lol :cool: lol
PS - I bolded and italicized mine, does that make them better?!?!
if you were a Gf and not a 16k gs GWF ,you would be the same.
Seeing your class getting no love from devs for nearly a year.Instead nerfs nerfs and new nerfs.
This guy thinks hes smart by deviating the Subject and trying to invalidate my Others Points.
Am I High? Maybe u should try a GF buddy and ill wait for u here in the forums to come and QQ with me . Pff
And by the way my GF has 33% deflect chance, please tell me again how hard it is to get deflect as a GF.
How about you list all those supposed nerfs.
Once again, not disagreeing that they need some love...
My point is such posts, as the one in question, do nothing for the class in general. Patience, no matter how frustrating, and mature communication will go so much farther! :cool:
Although enchants being the most OP factor actually made PvP more balanced in a ways. Again, if you could afford it.
And beta isn't relevant, really. What matters is the now, the current state of the game.
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!