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Pvp is broken. Hr/Gwf are overpowered and tr immunity build is still strong.
isuuck2
Member Posts: 491 Bounty Hunter
Tr: so tr's have only one effective build for pvp which is their immunity/perma stealth combo with duel furry. Now tr's aren't hard for me but its simply the fact that if they continuously manage to land duel furry while in stealth most classes cant do anything about it. Winning this build is completely reliant on catching them in stealth or hitting them when they are dodging away to stealth. Now i am godmode and i am a gf. Tr don't seem overpowered for me as long as they don't connect duel furry. But the immunity build means that i have to rely on luck to fight them. but at the end of the day i think they do need a buff in other builds so they are not forced to play just one for pvp. please do not buff their immunity build. it will just simple make them completely overpowered.
Hr with pathfinder build: I stand no chance against. As in 0% chance to win. With constricting arrow, G plague fire and torn ward i die in about 30secs with my protector spec. This also begs the question as to why there is no skill, weapon/armor enchantment and/or stats that counter deflection chance? because hr's heal when they deflect so I cannot use supremacy or steel and I don't hit hard so when they deflect almost all my attacks because most of them also use barkshield, i heal them. While my strongest stat, defense is near useless in pvp.
Gwf as destroyer are unheard of. They hit me for 15k and above. Just the other day a gwf hit me for 24k with indomitable strength and 20k with ibs. i am protector spec with feytouch and iron guard but that doesn't matter it seems. I am as tanky as a gf can be with 41k hp in pvp. if they use plague fire they build their destroyers purpose so fast and also build rampaging madness in like 4 at-wills. I stand zero chance against them as they are right now. And of course plaguefire debuffs my defense which is what guardian fights have going for them. While deflection remains untouched.
A reasonable buff for guardian fighters would be the ability to use our useless buffs as a tab ability, except knights challenge of course. Mark is completely useless. Like wtf are we suppose do with a skill like "Mark"? Gwf have a tab ability that makes them god. CW can put whatever spell they want as tab and some of their spells give them benefits. Rogues have stealth, Hunter rangers have melee stance which gives them different set encounters that doesn't share cool down with their range encounters, DC have divine stance and Guardian fighters have the useless mark. Are we looking for a treasure or creating a map? Iron warrior can be used to get agro, we don't need "Mark" as a tab ability. All our buffs are too weak to be put as enocunters but would make a great tab ability. We have the weakest tab ability and it makes us incapable now more than ever. But i do realize that cw have it hard in pvp but they are more useful than we are in both pve and pvp.
By the way I still notice that knights challenge is still buggy. sometimes it doesn't allow me to use the skill. it is just shaded in. People can dodge the ability now and the cast isn't instant as it used to be. If you use knights challenge you cant raise your shield in the air anymore because it would just cancel the ability and sometimes it would not go into effect but then start a cool down. Even the npc's in icewindale use knights challenge and the cast is instant and works the way to used to before tenacity patch. The devs broke this skill and don't want to fix it. it was never stated that this change was happening and you people are ruining a class on purpose. I cant believe that the npc's knights challenge works better than the player's knights challenge, the people who give you money. Anyone who doubts this should go to icewindale and fight one of those adventurers or do prospectors encounters and you see what I am stating.
Hr with pathfinder build: I stand no chance against. As in 0% chance to win. With constricting arrow, G plague fire and torn ward i die in about 30secs with my protector spec. This also begs the question as to why there is no skill, weapon/armor enchantment and/or stats that counter deflection chance? because hr's heal when they deflect so I cannot use supremacy or steel and I don't hit hard so when they deflect almost all my attacks because most of them also use barkshield, i heal them. While my strongest stat, defense is near useless in pvp.
Gwf as destroyer are unheard of. They hit me for 15k and above. Just the other day a gwf hit me for 24k with indomitable strength and 20k with ibs. i am protector spec with feytouch and iron guard but that doesn't matter it seems. I am as tanky as a gf can be with 41k hp in pvp. if they use plague fire they build their destroyers purpose so fast and also build rampaging madness in like 4 at-wills. I stand zero chance against them as they are right now. And of course plaguefire debuffs my defense which is what guardian fights have going for them. While deflection remains untouched.
A reasonable buff for guardian fighters would be the ability to use our useless buffs as a tab ability, except knights challenge of course. Mark is completely useless. Like wtf are we suppose do with a skill like "Mark"? Gwf have a tab ability that makes them god. CW can put whatever spell they want as tab and some of their spells give them benefits. Rogues have stealth, Hunter rangers have melee stance which gives them different set encounters that doesn't share cool down with their range encounters, DC have divine stance and Guardian fighters have the useless mark. Are we looking for a treasure or creating a map? Iron warrior can be used to get agro, we don't need "Mark" as a tab ability. All our buffs are too weak to be put as enocunters but would make a great tab ability. We have the weakest tab ability and it makes us incapable now more than ever. But i do realize that cw have it hard in pvp but they are more useful than we are in both pve and pvp.
By the way I still notice that knights challenge is still buggy. sometimes it doesn't allow me to use the skill. it is just shaded in. People can dodge the ability now and the cast isn't instant as it used to be. If you use knights challenge you cant raise your shield in the air anymore because it would just cancel the ability and sometimes it would not go into effect but then start a cool down. Even the npc's in icewindale use knights challenge and the cast is instant and works the way to used to before tenacity patch. The devs broke this skill and don't want to fix it. it was never stated that this change was happening and you people are ruining a class on purpose. I cant believe that the npc's knights challenge works better than the player's knights challenge, the people who give you money. Anyone who doubts this should go to icewindale and fight one of those adventurers or do prospectors encounters and you see what I am stating.
Post edited by isuuck2 on
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HRs got actually buffed with new paragon path. They are deadly indeed, but u cannot nerf them because its not about a power or one feat. HR are strong overall and have many many option depending on playstyle.
Gwfs? Yeah, cookiecutter class. Even stronger than mod2-pretenacity. I play a gwf myself and the only thing I can say about it: PLS balance me! I stopped playing gwf because of this stupid troll-OPness. Smash buttons and everything dies.
And PLS buff GF, even I havent played mine for half a year. But not to much because they are still decent in pvp. The thing is, people missinterpret the role of GF.
Last night I fought <<player name removed>> and withhim a party of 3 more GFs and a healer. He and another dude had no chance killing my HR while I burned them down so they had to rotate the DC in. There was a lot of talk how broken HRs are and how usess GFs are.
I regognize that GFs need some kind of little buff but also they were damned to loose from the beginning going in with 4 GFs and a DC.
Why?
GF is a support class like the DC. Going in with five supporters doesnt work. Five HRs or five GWFs would have worked but not only because they are very strong classes. Even if all classes were perfectly balanced the five supporter method would fail and the five dmg dealer method would work.
Why?
A dmg dealer/high survability class brings the strengh with itself. A support class (as the name suggests) can only be very useful if ur team is good, too.
Pugging with DC, GF and CW can be a real pain if ur teamates are so bad that ur support means little.
Word ^
Party composition is a contributing factor too of how a match will go..
I am with u, dude. I want a buff for GF.
But u would have still lost that match because of ur mistake taking 5 support classes into that match. One of th GFs i fougt had a lightning enchantment (I hope i am correct). Thats not a threatening enchantment for me.
Two GFs of that kind couldnt bring down neither a HR nor a equally geared DC or sentinel GWF.
Why is ur personal definition what a class can be and cant evidence?
GFs are TANKS! U said it. TANKS are not supposed to do much burst dmg. Oh wait. U claim u can burst down a pvp specced 38k hp halfling DC to 1/4 hp? NERF GF, HES DOING TO MUCH DMG OMG OMG OMG...
You see ur lack in logic here?
Next time rotate better or bring one GF and one high skilled CW to my node and I will have a a lot of trouble. I would like to see that video btw., can someone pm me the link?
But what I can recall of the match I have seen several times the GFs hitting me with their at-wills while I was using forest meditation, healing me even more, because with my 39k hp life my deflect healing ticks are higher than the dmg they did to me.
Dude, I just want some balance, because balanced PvP is fun. But our discussion is heading to a negative one, im sorry but lets end it here.
PS and TRs juts need more options, I am currently trying to make WK work and it is downright painful, why? I had full BiS perma perf bile MI spec, and I hated it regardless of how efficient it is. But really, TR needs LOVE not hate. Its that stealth QQ that put them in such a terrible spot that they are forced into this cheesy role. Trust me when I say almost every TR out there would like to play a different playstyle.
I'm not sure what evidence you have that they make BETTER tanks than GFs though. I've come up against some pretty unkillable GFs in PvP. The right build and gear in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing is a pretty decent tank. I've been prone-spammed to death by good GFs.
The fact that GFs need a buff pass does not make other classes OP. It just makes GF a weak class.
Serious suggestion - roll an HR and learn how the class works. It may change your mind on how 'OP' they are and it wouldn't hurt when fighting them either.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
<<Link removed pending community team approval>>
Much QQ based on not actually knowing what was happening.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
And once again, Pathfinder didn't add anything to HR tank builds except two class features which add marginal survivability through temp hitpoints on crit or temp boosted regen when attacked. Forest Meditation is NOT a Pathfinder ability.
The only Pathfinder ability visible in that video is Careful Attack. An At-Will.
Nobody is arguing that GF needs buffing BTW. Even the devs admit it.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
What you MIGHT get, under certain conditions, are 'extra' stacks of Plaguefire as CA procs PF and PF keeps triggering CA. But since in nearly all occasions the target is getting hit by other attacks anyway (Thorn Ward, Aimed Strike bleed) it makes no difference in practise.
I really wish people would stop spreading this urban myth and do some testing to see for themselves.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
He brings up good points.
Also, GFs need a complete rework
Perhaps also removing damage from takedown(this would not affect pve) or at least nerf the damage by half of takedown and ibs, making it a CC only ability kinda like the opposite of ITC(impossible to catch)
As for HR's incoming healing bonus stacked with deflect/regen build + forest med is op for sure, being able to press your daily (not even fully charged) which allows you to sit down with 20 people around you for 4seconds?(not sure on exact time)gain maximum HP back to 37k+, then rotate OP constricting arrows (a broken cc) or shift away with endless dodges is without question OP. As for the class itself, you see fewer very good hr's in general a) because it's a new class and b) It could probably be accepted to play, i'm talking in general to the standard of a good pvp player here; to master any class it takes skill of course, and especially one v one against your fellow gwf's it still comes down to an element of skill.
Yeah I said this basically in the thread that it was proposed. Theres no real useful functionality or need to even keep trying to make plaguefire triggering careful attack. Why would you even? The time wasted could be better used ACTUALLY damaging the target. You can be doing alot more things than worrying about just keeping a very weak elemental enchant dot on.
I play over 400 PvP matchs and I dont see any HRs use Forest Meditation... is a pure defensive skill and give only a little heal, finish the effect u remain sourronded by enemies... not much usefull and a waste of action points and of a daily slots, 95% of HRs have as daily Forest Ghost (alot more flexible and powerfull both as defensive/attack skill) and destructive shot (the remain HRs daily are pure garbage).
HRs are not OP... can kill easy any class, can be killed easy by any class and are the only probable balanced PvP class, very good as pathfinders agaist melee team and more powerfull as general porpose HRs with the standard skills (HR stormwarden path is really underpowered... zero usefull skills).
CW also are good and not really underpowered (lack survival, but if they are smart and for example fight from behing a HR that tank the incoming damage and/or protect them, they are lethal), but there are really few players that play well the class (CW and HR are the 2 most hard classes to master, probable CW are the hardest). CWs have probable after the HRs the 2° best dodge capacity... I see maybe 1 on 10 CW use dodges (my solution for raise up CW... give a skill with a little of autoheal.. (maybe similar to forest meditation... call it "Guru Meditation").
GF: underpower, but also there are really very very few players that play well the class. As HR a nob GF that use the bash shield for throw out here and there the enemies are more harmfull that usefull... in 90% of the cases they put the enemy out my LOS (out of range or behind a corner) and save the life of the enemy or throw the enemy exactly on me. If teh GF play smart... they are the king of 2 vs 1... avoid the 1 vs 1 and attack only enemies togheter with another teammate with ur infinite chain of prones. Lack a bit of damage and mobilty, but at the end are tank (my solution: increase a bit the damage and add mobility with a skill similar to marauder escape for retreat fast when under thread or low HP).
TR: not much to talk, they need to be the king of 1 vs 1... increase the damage and add a malus damage when they hit from stealth. Add a kamikaze bomb skill (with the time countdown over the head of the TR)... the TR die (if he dont stop the timer), but inflict massive AoE damage (call it "IED Meditation").
GWF: the destructor of the funny in PvP... nerf the range of all skills (max 5-10'), remove or toned down they CCs, they are savage barbarians (not wizards in plate armor), they need to be cannon fodder and sparry dummies for all others classes.
HR: bring back the old splitshot for the underpowered stormwarden path as poisoned arrows/poisoned blade... with a 80-85% reduction damage when hit 2 targets, 75-80% when hit 3 targets, 70-75% when hits 4 targets or more.
Yeah actually I've started using it. It wasn't useful before because if you ranked it up, it lost the 100% deflect chance. That was fixed in Mod3 so now it's definitely viable.
Those guys kept hitting him with their mighty GF at-wills though which only gave him set-bonus heals from deflections on top of the heal.
Mostly I find it's best use is to troll people you were already going to kill anyway.
watch the video and see, as i said most hr are bad. It is unquestionably overpowered forest meditation and they can get 100% deflect chance, coupled with sharandar boon returns damage when an attack is deflected again is op.
no, just no
<<PVP video link removed pending approval>> - good video
Still don't see the big deal with that video. You could make one with a TR keeping two GFs busy at a point for a full day. A GWF would just outright kill them and be done with it LOL.
Video shows GFs are underpowered more than anything.
HRs are a pretty good counter to TRs.
One thing not said though is, "Ok, let's send two GFs."
no one use forest meditation in domination matchs...
maybe for laugh for few seconds in GG matchs is usefull, but after u die
You just prove that you got 0 experience in pvp . Gf is the hardest enemy for a tr cause of his several mid range prones . Gfws are just delaying the inevitable with their unstoppable .Gfs even nerfed as they are now if they got experience they can own even the most experienced trs .Now Now if you got a gf and you ain't using your threatening rush along with the surge and the rest of your prones not trs fault that got a fodder gf
Why you doing this to yourself Syn? Just honest question. You play some snipey HR that bothers people from off node and shoots Aimed stuff from Ghost, cool, you got 3K kills, cool. Gratz to you man!
But you really need to understand that domination is NOT about kills that much. It is about point contention and capping.
So tell me. How you gonna cap against a 40K HP Pathfinder with Meditation? 1vs1, on node - because you have to stay on it. You cannot Aimed Shot him because of GPF DoT. Take constant damage from CA and TW. This is how real games go on, instead of pugs that roam for kills.
There are top HRs in this game. They died less than 100 times, and are on page 1. They use meditation as needed and are pathfinders. You cannot even touch them... and my guess is that you will soon meet one of them, who will make a video of you failing hard, and post it.