I strongly suggest to make it takes a unanimous decision to vote-kick. So, for a full party, it would take 4 yes votes and for a part of four, it would take three. Abstain should be removed from the process and if a player fails to vote, the process should cancel out. It is absolutely horrible that vote-kicking can be done with only two yes votes.
quite frankly, i think if the person being kicked has no say in the vote at all, then the person initiating the vote should not count as well. 2 pairs of 2 people in the same guild......whoever initiates the vote-kick 1st wins and that is just silly.
Another thing that is related that needs fixed, is to stop the party system from changing the group leader when changing instances and/or loading into the delves/skirmishes/instances. This would help maintain the proper leadership of the group to reduce potential abuse by a pub who's been made leader by this bug.
this is the weird thing about neverwinter. even in games where queues will randomly put a bunch of people together, they are usually given the choice to decide who is leader or if they actually want to join the group. some people don't even join a group but still do just fine as long as they know what to do because the real benefits of being in the same group is for the healers to be able to watch your hp bars.
Four players were left in the dungeon. Number 5 joins, initiates random kick in the mid of battle. 1 of us stupidly presses "yes". Another new player (same guild) joined. That was the end of the party and everyone got kicked.
4 people played through the whole dungeon all alone, 5 completely different people killed the final boss and took the loot.
That is your team´s fault for several reasons:
- You lost one of your initial 5 members of the party. Blame on you!
- You, and 1 other guy from the initial party voted to kick a party member. Blame on you!
- You then agree to continue kicking your own mates. Blame on you!
A vote kick is lost if NO goes 3-2, so if you see yourself in that situation, it is just yourself to blame. That won´t happen if you go with guildies, that won´t happen when you join a party through LFG, and that won´t happen 99.9% of the times in PUGs.
The queue, the party leadership, and the loot options are messed up/broken, but what you cry about is completely nonsensical. Not to menction that the chances of 2 guys from the same guild joining a party that way are close to 0, even if they are a tank-cleric combo.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
- You lost one of your initial 5 members of the party. Blame on you!
- You, and 1 other guy from the initial party voted to kick a party member. Blame on you!
- You then agree to continue kicking your own mates. Blame on you!
A vote kick is lost if NO goes 3-2, so if you see yourself in that situation, it is just yourself to blame. That won´t happen if you go with guildies, that won´t happen when you join a party through LFG, and that won´t happen 99.9% of the times in PUGs.
The queue, the party leadership, and the loot options are messed up/broken, but what you cry about is completely nonsensical. Not to menction that the chances of 2 guys from the same guild joining a party that way are close to 0, even if they are a tank-cleric combo.
I don't think anyone here is "crying." Nay, looks to me like solid feedback and opinions and definitely not nonsensical. Keep it coming folks!
In addition to this happening I have also seen the case where there is the 'sleeper' agent within a PuG. They wait till the end and then work to start kicking members of the party to allow their own guild members to queue in. If they get three it is all over and even two is dangerous as some people will click the yes and not realize what is going on -- only to find themselves kicked sometime after.
I keep a list of guilds that seem to do this exclusively. I have reported them many times but I don't even think that is ever read and is simply a waste of time to do.
People actually go through the trouble of doing this just to get loot? That's the lamest thing I've ever read. How can it possibly be worth it when only a couple people are going to get gear anyway? I guess you get some seals or something but that's just ridiculous. If this is actually a problem, some folks playing this game need to get a life.
ladymythosMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 637Bounty Hunter
edited May 2014
The way I see it, the solution is simple enough. It only requires three steps:
1. Unless you press YES on the vote, it counts as NO. Pressed no? Then no it is. Closed the window without voting anything? No it is. The exception is if you are disconnected, but in this case, the vote is blank. So if a player starts a vote during a boss fight, just tap Esc or something to close the vote, and automatically vote NO.
2. When you vote someone, block the vote-function again for everyone for five minutes. Yes, it'll be annoying if two or more people have disconnected and needs to be voted out, but this again can be solved by auto-kicking people who have disconnected more than five minutes. On the plus side, they can simply auto-join again once they enter the game again, as long as there are enough spots avaliable in the group.
3. When someone joins, block their vote-call for at least five minutes, and preferably ten minutes in epic dungeons. This way anyone can join during a boss fight, but they have to wait five minutes to vote someone out. It should give the rest of us some time to finish up the boss, or at least prevent the newcomer from vote-spamming.
All this means new people in the party won't be able to vote someone directly, hopefully discouraging the group-stealers from voting out everyone. Plus, once someone has started a vote, no one else can start a vote for several minutes, also discouraging people from voting out several people at once.
- You lost one of your initial 5 members of the party. Blame on you!
- You, and 1 other guy from the initial party voted to kick a party member. Blame on you!
- You then agree to continue kicking your own mates. Blame on you!
A vote kick is lost if NO goes 3-2, so if you see yourself in that situation, it is just yourself to blame. That won´t happen if you go with guildies, that won´t happen when you join a party through LFG, and that won´t happen 99.9% of the times in PUGs.
The queue, the party leadership, and the loot options are messed up/broken, but what you cry about is completely nonsensical. Not to menction that the chances of 2 guys from the same guild joining a party that way are close to 0, even if they are a tank-cleric combo.
Sorry but this is not as uncommon as you are trying to say it is.
Likewise, a vote kick in the middle of combat? I have accidentally hit keys very fast during combat (in particular during loot rolls). You can't blame someone for accidentally voting when some dialogue pops up obscuring their screen in the middle of combat. To be honest, vote kicks shouldn't be allowed if anyone is in combat.
There are also some tricks (I don't know how they work) that these folks can use to get people booted. Happened to me one time where I know for a fact my party members voted NO(I was on TS with them) and 1 new guy kept spamming vote kicks while we were in combat. We were voting No when we saw them, yet he still managed to get us popped out of the group. Don't know how he did it as we all voted No but he did.
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grogthemagnifMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,651Arc User
edited May 2014
I second your motion to have a locked Queue
I also propose that the Developers track Vote kicks by initiator and keep a list of the top 100 on the Queue tab (press k)
I further propose that each vote kick is counted for the initiator
I further propose that a new tab - 'Delete top vote-kickers' be added to the leaders tab and be used before locking the queue.
That is not true. There are at least 2 scenarios where that doesnt work.
1 - there are only 2 people left in the group that aren't disconnected. player 1 and playernew
2 - player 3 is afk and doesn't get to vote.
To put it simply, this has been a HUGE problem in the game and I am shocked that it hasn't been addressed yet.
At the simplest level, all they need to do is provide an option for a locked queue. Basically you set the option and you just don't get replacements if people leave.
No matter how "hard" it may be to properly program a queue does anyone find it acceptable that a group can spend time clearing a dungeon but get kicked out by random new entries to the group? I have had this happen EVEN when the existing members all voted no when the vote kick was initiated. No matter how you look at it, it's stealing.
its not a crying few, its many of us, who are sick of this kind of thing going on, just dont say anything as cryptic doesnt listen, nor do they care, or it would be fixed, as this is something that has plagued this game a long time, same as the exploits like cn,, i found out recently how nooby's were all of a sudden showing up with hefty grear, nobody with greens can get through cn,, an yet see lots of players 3/4 green yet wearing the end boss armor,, ya ok, , either way, demon is in a good guild, an he has the right to do on the game as he would like, an to be booted from ur hard earned dungeon is just wrong, an the so called fix, did nothing but make it worse,, as it should be 4 votes to kik, not just the leader, not just one or two, or three, should be minimum 4, an unable to kik leader period, he made the party, it should remain his/hers
Compare to the Games/Server Populace and even the number of players abusing these exploits, the number of players reporting these are few. The same as the number of player using the legit channel are very few compare to overall. I use to be one of the crying few myself but I accepted that nothing will be done before the game runs it's life course. Fatalism? Maybe but that's my decision.
Compare to the Games/Server Populace and even the number of players abusing these exploits, the number of players reporting these are few. The same as the number of player using the legit channel are very few compare to overall. I use to be one of the crying few myself but I accepted that nothing will be done before the game runs it's life course. Fatalism? Maybe but that's my decision.
Ive been dealing with PWE since they took over PWI, they do eventually listen, just so much damage is done before something takes place of positive change.
Quick and simple fix would get rid of the loot roll system all together since that's the sole purpose people are doing this type of behavior... It really wouldn't matter if they increased the amount of votes, people are greedy in this game, they would see the opportunity of odds in their favor and join in.
If you're destined to win with a roll, why not just make that destiny won from a random drop only you see.
- You lost one of your initial 5 members of the party. Blame on you!
- You, and 1 other guy from the initial party voted to kick a party member. Blame on you!
- You then agree to continue kicking your own mates. Blame on you!
A vote kick is lost if NO goes 3-2, so if you see yourself in that situation, it is just yourself to blame. That won´t happen if you go with guildies, that won´t happen when you join a party through LFG, and that won´t happen 99.9% of the times in PUGs.
The queue, the party leadership, and the loot options are messed up/broken, but what you cry about is completely nonsensical. Not to menction that the chances of 2 guys from the same guild joining a party that way are close to 0, even if they are a tank-cleric combo.
Oh gosh, no it happens and it just happened to me 10 mins before maintenace started. As a very new (about 1 month old) player I have absolutely no experience how players here can be unfair/abuse group members, and how to deal with such kind of players.
It was a Temple of spider run and they were 3 players left at boss when I joined in (with delves chest unlocked), this one guy started a vote to kick the healer and gave reason that we cant do it with him, that healer was kicked. The other guy left a minute after, then joined 2 more players from his guild (I dont know what are the chances but well it just happened). I took a screenshot while we were waiting, since I thought that the GF had great stats. Then we went ahead and killed the boss with 4 and as soon as it was dead I got kicked. How is that fair? this guy literally used random players to clear the dungeon and kicked them all at final boss.
Such players should not be allowed to run freely and continue this kind of trickery with others. There should be a good level of fairness maintained in the game.
So far I am not satisfied with the support, and speaking of which, does that GM help option actually do anything? and are these forums posts worth anything to cryptic? sorry for nub questions but yeah as I said I'm not an experienced player.
Edit: I second whoever has suggested that the kick option be disabled after a group starts fighting the boss, I just don't see anyway that it can be abused, its the only solution and introduction of some justice never hurts.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
edited May 2014
Maybe the new patch in a few hours will make it so only party leader can kick!
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I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
One problem with the current system is it can provide incentive for people to join your party and kick everyone in it, simply to close the instance. The reason it is like this is because you can only join a party that has already started a DD through the lfg menu("k" key).
If a guild has someone that DCs or has to leave for some other reason, the only way they can get another guildmember to join their party is through the lfg menu and hope their instance is at the top of the list. If any other party's instance is higher on the list, they have a few options:
1. attempt to 4-man the DD
2. leave the PuG group and wait for it to fill up, so the 5th will join the next instance on the list. But there is no way to know if/when that will happen.
3. attempt to kick everyone in the PuG group and then disband the instance, that way it's eliminated from the list. Hoping their guild's instance is next on the list.
So again, the problem is there is incentive to joining a group and kicking people from it, because that group is preventing their guild from completing a DD. And in this case it isn't even about hijacking, which is another incentive.
Possible solutions?
-allow people that are manually invited to a party to join the dungeon
-provide a list of active groups in a DD to join in the lfg menu.
huh a griefer in pvp???, although pugs in pvp, hard to say how to be allowed to kik em, but i think if there was a way to have those who stand at respawn kiked or what not would be awesome,, also have seen people talk about how uneven pvp is, well maybe it should be that you cant join until you have specific gear level,, as doin a 5 on 5, with those who come with greens, is just a waste of every ones time, thats where i find the imbalance, not in the pvp,, would also like to know when cryptic is going to deal with the hacking/gold sellars
yes gear level restrictions is a perfect idea. I have seen some level 20's with 300 gs and level 40's with 1k gs so the players are the one's making it unbalanced. Gear score minimums are needed.
You are missing one crucial point - in the OP's scenario, it was someone *else* that joined *their* team later, that voted them out. It's not like the OP joined some random PUG and got kicked - they were part of the original team, and later got kicked when some newcomer ousted them...
No I understand but that would also mean her original team agreed to kick and or left them there in the dungeon and were replaced by pugs who then agreed to kick them... you see my point now Why were they kicked?
its a voting system its not like the old days when the leader had all control of the kicks it was democratic vote!
As infuriating as it may have been and I know its happened to me too, but they must have had a reason and if it was with original team members still in attendance it was a good reason.
What do Most people deem a "good reason" to kick a party member? I've been involved in very few situations where a vote was prompted, only one stands out. Three of us picked up 2 random players for a PK greed run. One of the added players picked up a boss drop while we were still fighting tons of mobs, and our CW accidentally hit need. It's not always easy to hit the right keys when you're in the middle of a fight, but one of the added players initiated a vote kick because of it. Of course the CW wasn't kicked, since there were 2 of us that originally joined with him. He offered the item if it was needed. It was only a ring. We try to not pick up loot until the area is clear.
This happened to us me my hubby and sis in law were queueing for a Call to arms me and hubby were 60s sis in law was only level 9. so we get pugged with a level 60 and a level 20 the level 60 got the crown and booted sis in law and the new level 20 right off the bat, we were shocked they could even do this.
so hubby left and was replaced by a level 15 tr also hubby had been a tank and me a cw and he seemed to be getting hr/tr to replace. finally I left smirking that thanks to the guys greed he was probably going to be stuck with no other 60s and all tr/hr. unless he kept booting.
I understand that there is sometimes a need to boot someone.
if the person is idle, or not moving.
if the person is obviously a griefer/spammer
if the person is ignoring carefully planned group strategies and just getting everyone killed.
but if there is a team of 3 or more that enters the queue one of them should have the crown. maybe have a feature if they boot three times the crown changes.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
No I understand but that would also mean her original team agreed to kick and or left them there in the dungeon and were replaced by pugs who then agreed to kick them... you see my point now Why were they kicked?
its a voting system its not like the old days when the leader had all control of the kicks it was democratic vote!
As infuriating as it may have been and I know its happened to me too, but they must have had a reason and if it was with original team members still in attendance it was a good reason.
Let's say 3 of the original party are still on the team. Two random people join from the queue. One of those two people initiate a vote in the middle of a fight. The other of those two people votes yes. The other 3 people close or ignore the vote window, as they are busy fighting. Since there are more "Yes" votes, the people get kicked - that isn't how it should work. In all cases, it should require more than half the team to vote "Yes", to get someone kicked, but all it seems to require now is that there are more "Yes" votes than there are "No" votes. This is a fundamentally flawed system, and needs to be addressed...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Here s the thing i ran a dng, with a group till the final boss. We wiped and many left. Only 2 of us left waiting for others to join. Then, 2 new guys enter and simply kicked us both; so those 2 guys got the chest of the dungeon that we cleaned. I m not saying killing the boss is without merit but, it wasn t their run it was ours.
I don t think smne that just entered an advanced dungeon should even be able to vote kick, i m sorry but it s not your run and if you don t like the group you can always leave.
You can use the performance chart (the one of the X key) to add to the mix in some sort of formula.
If the character that is voted for kick is at least 2nd in one of the diferent lists then it shouldn t be kicked, or at least that should count as an extra "no". It s not perfect but at least it will be less arbitrary.
I run Far delvers crypt when I can. I often have trouble finding a group. I usually form my own group, which can be a challenge, in getting the right mix, and those with a share to run. Then after all the work, we que up, and leadership randomly changes. This is a bug that should be fixed as a high priority.
A fact of life is that honor, morality, and ethics are now treated as a punchline and no longer taught to anyone. This has resulted in a "me first" society. Even when they are taught their is a vast difference between what a person might learn in the east or in west. Bearing that in mind, it is ultimately up to the game owners to decide what they consider "fair & honorable". Then the owners must tell the developers to design the game mechanics to force that style of play. They can choose which way to go as far as vote kicks and loot drops and force that on the players (current system), or they could change it to allow a group leader to decide what system they want for each party.
If the party leader is allowed to decide then it should be decided upon entering the dungeon, and be locked in until the dungeon is completed. If party leader is disconnected for more than five minutes (or leaves the party) then the leadership should be randomly assigned to another member, at which time the new leader can set the settings.
Settings that should be allowed in this scenario.
Allow random to be assigned from que.
Allow invites by leader and/or party members.
Allow vote kicks to be initiated by leader and/or members requiring a 51% or greater yes vote (abstain/pass to count as no) to proceed.
Loot option to be choice of random, round robin, need/greed.
Some other issues that I consider bugs, a vote kick should not be allowed during combat, a loot roll should not be allowed during combat, as it requires combat buttons to properly click those, the player could be trying to click a skill and decide a loot or vote kick without ever actually registering that they were doing that.
I loved the idea of a list of those who initiate vote kicks regularly.
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Comments
quite frankly, i think if the person being kicked has no say in the vote at all, then the person initiating the vote should not count as well. 2 pairs of 2 people in the same guild......whoever initiates the vote-kick 1st wins and that is just silly.
this is the weird thing about neverwinter. even in games where queues will randomly put a bunch of people together, they are usually given the choice to decide who is leader or if they actually want to join the group. some people don't even join a group but still do just fine as long as they know what to do because the real benefits of being in the same group is for the healers to be able to watch your hp bars.
That is your team´s fault for several reasons:
- You lost one of your initial 5 members of the party. Blame on you!
- You, and 1 other guy from the initial party voted to kick a party member. Blame on you!
- You then agree to continue kicking your own mates. Blame on you!
A vote kick is lost if NO goes 3-2, so if you see yourself in that situation, it is just yourself to blame. That won´t happen if you go with guildies, that won´t happen when you join a party through LFG, and that won´t happen 99.9% of the times in PUGs.
The queue, the party leadership, and the loot options are messed up/broken, but what you cry about is completely nonsensical. Not to menction that the chances of 2 guys from the same guild joining a party that way are close to 0, even if they are a tank-cleric combo.
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People actually go through the trouble of doing this just to get loot? That's the lamest thing I've ever read. How can it possibly be worth it when only a couple people are going to get gear anyway? I guess you get some seals or something but that's just ridiculous. If this is actually a problem, some folks playing this game need to get a life.
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1. Unless you press YES on the vote, it counts as NO. Pressed no? Then no it is. Closed the window without voting anything? No it is. The exception is if you are disconnected, but in this case, the vote is blank. So if a player starts a vote during a boss fight, just tap Esc or something to close the vote, and automatically vote NO.
2. When you vote someone, block the vote-function again for everyone for five minutes. Yes, it'll be annoying if two or more people have disconnected and needs to be voted out, but this again can be solved by auto-kicking people who have disconnected more than five minutes. On the plus side, they can simply auto-join again once they enter the game again, as long as there are enough spots avaliable in the group.
3. When someone joins, block their vote-call for at least five minutes, and preferably ten minutes in epic dungeons. This way anyone can join during a boss fight, but they have to wait five minutes to vote someone out. It should give the rest of us some time to finish up the boss, or at least prevent the newcomer from vote-spamming.
All this means new people in the party won't be able to vote someone directly, hopefully discouraging the group-stealers from voting out everyone. Plus, once someone has started a vote, no one else can start a vote for several minutes, also discouraging people from voting out several people at once.
Sorry but this is not as uncommon as you are trying to say it is.
Likewise, a vote kick in the middle of combat? I have accidentally hit keys very fast during combat (in particular during loot rolls). You can't blame someone for accidentally voting when some dialogue pops up obscuring their screen in the middle of combat. To be honest, vote kicks shouldn't be allowed if anyone is in combat.
There are also some tricks (I don't know how they work) that these folks can use to get people booted. Happened to me one time where I know for a fact my party members voted NO(I was on TS with them) and 1 new guy kept spamming vote kicks while we were in combat. We were voting No when we saw them, yet he still managed to get us popped out of the group. Don't know how he did it as we all voted No but he did.
I also propose that the Developers track Vote kicks by initiator and keep a list of the top 100 on the Queue tab (press k)
I further propose that each vote kick is counted for the initiator
I further propose that a new tab - 'Delete top vote-kickers' be added to the leaders tab and be used before locking the queue.
Compare to the Games/Server Populace and even the number of players abusing these exploits, the number of players reporting these are few. The same as the number of player using the legit channel are very few compare to overall. I use to be one of the crying few myself but I accepted that nothing will be done before the game runs it's life course. Fatalism? Maybe but that's my decision.
Ive been dealing with PWE since they took over PWI, they do eventually listen, just so much damage is done before something takes place of positive change.
Quick and simple fix would get rid of the loot roll system all together since that's the sole purpose people are doing this type of behavior... It really wouldn't matter if they increased the amount of votes, people are greedy in this game, they would see the opportunity of odds in their favor and join in.
If you're destined to win with a roll, why not just make that destiny won from a random drop only you see.
It was a Temple of spider run and they were 3 players left at boss when I joined in (with delves chest unlocked), this one guy started a vote to kick the healer and gave reason that we cant do it with him, that healer was kicked. The other guy left a minute after, then joined 2 more players from his guild (I dont know what are the chances but well it just happened). I took a screenshot while we were waiting, since I thought that the GF had great stats. Then we went ahead and killed the boss with 4 and as soon as it was dead I got kicked. How is that fair? this guy literally used random players to clear the dungeon and kicked them all at final boss.
Such players should not be allowed to run freely and continue this kind of trickery with others. There should be a good level of fairness maintained in the game.
So far I am not satisfied with the support, and speaking of which, does that GM help option actually do anything? and are these forums posts worth anything to cryptic? sorry for nub questions but yeah as I said I'm not an experienced player.
Edit: I second whoever has suggested that the kick option be disabled after a group starts fighting the boss, I just don't see anyway that it can be abused, its the only solution and introduction of some justice never hurts.
Aaaaaaand we return to the initial problem of party leader kicking everyone ad letting in his friends for the last boss/chest. Nope, thanks.
If a guild has someone that DCs or has to leave for some other reason, the only way they can get another guildmember to join their party is through the lfg menu and hope their instance is at the top of the list. If any other party's instance is higher on the list, they have a few options:
1. attempt to 4-man the DD
2. leave the PuG group and wait for it to fill up, so the 5th will join the next instance on the list. But there is no way to know if/when that will happen.
3. attempt to kick everyone in the PuG group and then disband the instance, that way it's eliminated from the list. Hoping their guild's instance is next on the list.
So again, the problem is there is incentive to joining a group and kicking people from it, because that group is preventing their guild from completing a DD. And in this case it isn't even about hijacking, which is another incentive.
Possible solutions?
-allow people that are manually invited to a party to join the dungeon
-provide a list of active groups in a DD to join in the lfg menu.
yes gear level restrictions is a perfect idea. I have seen some level 20's with 300 gs and level 40's with 1k gs so the players are the one's making it unbalanced. Gear score minimums are needed.
No I understand but that would also mean her original team agreed to kick and or left them there in the dungeon and were replaced by pugs who then agreed to kick them... you see my point now Why were they kicked?
its a voting system its not like the old days when the leader had all control of the kicks it was democratic vote!
As infuriating as it may have been and I know its happened to me too, but they must have had a reason and if it was with original team members still in attendance it was a good reason.
so hubby left and was replaced by a level 15 tr also hubby had been a tank and me a cw and he seemed to be getting hr/tr to replace. finally I left smirking that thanks to the guys greed he was probably going to be stuck with no other 60s and all tr/hr. unless he kept booting.
I understand that there is sometimes a need to boot someone.
if the person is idle, or not moving.
if the person is obviously a griefer/spammer
if the person is ignoring carefully planned group strategies and just getting everyone killed.
but if there is a team of 3 or more that enters the queue one of them should have the crown. maybe have a feature if they boot three times the crown changes.
Let's say 3 of the original party are still on the team. Two random people join from the queue. One of those two people initiate a vote in the middle of a fight. The other of those two people votes yes. The other 3 people close or ignore the vote window, as they are busy fighting. Since there are more "Yes" votes, the people get kicked - that isn't how it should work. In all cases, it should require more than half the team to vote "Yes", to get someone kicked, but all it seems to require now is that there are more "Yes" votes than there are "No" votes. This is a fundamentally flawed system, and needs to be addressed...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I don t think smne that just entered an advanced dungeon should even be able to vote kick, i m sorry but it s not your run and if you don t like the group you can always leave.
If the character that is voted for kick is at least 2nd in one of the diferent lists then it shouldn t be kicked, or at least that should count as an extra "no". It s not perfect but at least it will be less arbitrary.
I run Far delvers crypt when I can. I often have trouble finding a group. I usually form my own group, which can be a challenge, in getting the right mix, and those with a share to run. Then after all the work, we que up, and leadership randomly changes. This is a bug that should be fixed as a high priority.
A fact of life is that honor, morality, and ethics are now treated as a punchline and no longer taught to anyone. This has resulted in a "me first" society. Even when they are taught their is a vast difference between what a person might learn in the east or in west. Bearing that in mind, it is ultimately up to the game owners to decide what they consider "fair & honorable". Then the owners must tell the developers to design the game mechanics to force that style of play. They can choose which way to go as far as vote kicks and loot drops and force that on the players (current system), or they could change it to allow a group leader to decide what system they want for each party.
If the party leader is allowed to decide then it should be decided upon entering the dungeon, and be locked in until the dungeon is completed. If party leader is disconnected for more than five minutes (or leaves the party) then the leadership should be randomly assigned to another member, at which time the new leader can set the settings.
Settings that should be allowed in this scenario.
Allow random to be assigned from que.
Allow invites by leader and/or party members.
Allow vote kicks to be initiated by leader and/or members requiring a 51% or greater yes vote (abstain/pass to count as no) to proceed.
Loot option to be choice of random, round robin, need/greed.
Some other issues that I consider bugs, a vote kick should not be allowed during combat, a loot roll should not be allowed during combat, as it requires combat buttons to properly click those, the player could be trying to click a skill and decide a loot or vote kick without ever actually registering that they were doing that.
I loved the idea of a list of those who initiate vote kicks regularly.
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This is just plain simply bad design and there is NO excuse for it at all. PERIOD.
If someone thinks there is a good reason for this programming behavior, I'd love to hear it.