Gear Score Gating, out of hand?

morsitans · April 2014

I don't really see people "LFG 15k GS" as a problem, because

A) I can't run with those people, and

I don't WANT to run with those people even if I could.

Parties spamming LFG with requests for tremendously overgeared peeps are not going to magically turn into a nice, steady legit runs: they are speedruns that will do absolutely anything and everything required to farm the maximum amount of content in the minimum time. Unless you're also planning on speedrunning everything, these parties will be miserable experiences.

Just...ignore them.

rashylewizz · April 2014

Plaguefire was not working back in the day which is why Greater Plaguefire cost 1.6mil back then.

Before Stalwart was nerfed, the norm was 10k GS

Tenes was mostly a PVP enchant. Didn't see to many people using it in dungeons. And I was actually on the server during that time

As for shortcuts, there are still several out there but the high dps output enables groups to just plow down the mobs instead of spending 30min in arguments and confusion

damnataanimus · April 2014

pointsman wrote: »

The groups wanting 13k+ players for FC and 15k+ players for T2 dungeons are the speed-running groups. They are not gearing up, they are just interested in running the dungeons lots of times, as fast as they can, to get loot.

In my experience, the Legit channel (which is awesome, BTW) and my guild are the only places that are amenable to helping people get through T2 dungeons for the purpose of gearing up rather than acquiring lots of loot.

I Agree. And I have 1 cw @ 14.5k, she uses a 4 set so i d ont get extgra stats. I also have 15.3k DC and 15.4k GWF, a 16k GF and rogue and hunter at 60 too.

The reason i say this is because ive seen people with gear 16k plus that are getting beaten by people with gear who is much lower. Personally I am willing to take most people, even newer 60s to runs I make. Took a person whod never done VT there today explained fight, wiped once and went on do do it twice more after that, that delve. This person was also only 13.5k. They also came in 2nd on dps after my GWF, beating out the other 2 CW. The 5th was DC who are not expected to do awesome damage anyway

So, with some patience even new players can be an asset to your groups if you give them a chance.

And one more thing - what is this Legit channel? I have never heard of it before.

Oh and if you (you being a friendly, patient, english speaking player

) are newer but want to do t2s as long as your 11k plus feel free to friend me in game if you wish - @damnataanimus, Just message me when I login/accept the invite so i know that you are from here. I get a few random requests sometimes is all

kingjon555 · April 2014

Look at it from my perspective:

I am a 20k GF. I busted my *** using the queue system to gear up and make money with whatever groups I could find. I was kicked often because people believe a GF is useless , despite the fact that I topped dps charts rather often in the groups that kept me.

I DO NOT actually do this, as I don't really run dungeons anymore, but, IF I WANTED TO, I should be allowed to exclude 10k green artifact morons from my PRIVATE PARTY, because I do not want to carry him/her and risk losing loot rolls to him/her.

I am NOT claiming that higher gear score always equates to more skill, but I am saying that no amount of skill can really make a 9k more helpful than a 15k. It's sad but true.

My political views in real life are nothing like this, because not everyone in the world begins with truly equal opportunities. In an MMO, everyone's opportunities are exactly the same and therefore the outcomes of their actions are based almost 100% purely on effort and dedication, NOT circumstance.

EDIT: LFG is NOT elitist, unless those participating have purchased their gear with real world money. They have simply made the decision that, after grinding endlessly for their gear, they save tons of time doing dungeons by spending a bit of time looking for other like-minded high-gear players.

Whether this assertion is actually true is up for debate, and I would personally say that they're probably wasting more time looking for people than they are saving in-dungeon. However, there should never be any rules implemented to force them to change their minds. MMOs are not communist societies, they are essentially anarchies.

pointsman · April 2014

These arguments about "I cleared T2 dungeons in the past when my GS was only 12k, you should be able to do it now when your GS is 15k!" are in part baloney, because in the past, ALL of the T2 dungeons had exploits that made it easy for people to gear up regardless of GS. For example, in the past pretty much nobody completed Karrundax legit; using a combination of terrain exploits and campfire dying exploits (both of which have now been fixed), the first two bosses were dispatched easily, and the final boss there is so easy that no exploit is needed. No gear or even skill is needed for these types of dungeon runs.

kingjon555 · April 2014

pointsman wrote: »

These arguments about "I cleared T2 dungeons in the past when my GS was only 12k, you should be able to do it now when your GS is 15k!" are in part baloney, because in the past, ALL of the T2 dungeons had exploits that made it easy for people to gear up regardless of GS. For example, in the past pretty much nobody completed Karrundax legit; using a combination of terrain exploits and campfire dying exploits (both of which have now been fixed), the first two bosses were dispatched easily, and the final boss there is so easy that no exploit is needed. No gear or even skill is needed for these types of dungeon runs.

Having been there, I agree, somewhat, although they really aren't that hard... However, having posted that in a thread about private parties of players gating off sub 13-14k players, I am under the assumption that your solution would be to force those players to carry you. (I apologize sincerely if that is not the case)

That is sheer ignorance. I would stop playing dungeons forever if I had to carry 7k GWFs who have rank 1 green artifacts. Then what would you do, without 15k+ players to carry you?

In case you can't see it yet, the problem at hand is not GS gating in private groups; the debate you want to have is about dungeon difficulty. I think you'd lose, but regardless, you shouldn't be in this thread. Go to one about dungeons being too hard/easy.

darkstarcrash · April 2014

damnataanimus wrote: »

And one more thing - what is this Legit channel? I have never heard of it before.

The channel everyone is talking about is NW_Legit_Community. For the most part you will find friendly, helpful people, no exploiting, little to no requirement of GS, and willingness to take characters new to a given dungeon.

Join it by typing /channel_join NW_Legit_Community. See the thread about the channel here.

damnataanimus · April 2014

darkstarcrash wrote: »

The channel everyone is talking about is NW_Legit_Community. For the most part you will find friendly, helpful people, no exploiting, little to no requirement of GS, and willingness to take characters new to a given dungeon.

Join it by typing /channel_join NW_Legit_Community. See the thread about the channel here.

Ah nice

I'll join when I login in the morning

pitshade · April 2014

The Legit Chanel predates the gear score inflation of Mod2. The original incarnation actually predates the Shard merger. People used it then to run and beat the dungeons without cheating and without the ridiculously inflated GSs being talked about. Then people cheated their way through dungeons because they want to speed farm them or more often because the players themselves didn't know how to work together and play their classes. Now they just try to overgear the dungeons as much as they can, because tactics are hard apparently.

diogene0 · April 2014

So what? 15k+ players have no content to play so they're kind of stuck with the very old and dusty T2 content. That's why you see people requiring 15k+ for ToS or Spellplague. Some people just want to farm diamonds, and that's ok to me because even if i can be helpful, I'm in the same boat. 15k and nothing to do but old 8300 gs content. But if you take an honnest look at the public channels, there are many 11-12k people and they do get invites to T2s, provided they don't obnoxiously expect people to make 3 ranger's groups. If you play a desired class your GS isn't an issue.

Side note: i'm on legit too. :cool:

silverquick · April 2014

pointsman wrote: »

These arguments about "I cleared T2 dungeons in the past when my GS was only 12k, you should be able to do it now when your GS is 15k!" are in part baloney, because in the past, ALL of the T2 dungeons had exploits that made it easy for people to gear up regardless of GS. For example, in the past pretty much nobody completed Karrundax legit; using a combination of terrain exploits and campfire dying exploits (both of which have now been fixed), the first two bosses were dispatched easily, and the final boss there is so easy that no exploit is needed. No gear or even skill is needed for these types of dungeon runs.

Well actually previously they were cleared at the minimum gear scores and without exploits,

I can personally attest to that. Yeah it was hard as hell and took a lot of patience, but it was actually doable. And admittedly everyone has suffered major nerfs since then, even us as CWs since I know you are one too. We do not have the same abillities for control we used to back then.

Still... at the very least for things like Karra and Frozen, those really can be cleared at the 11-12k GS range as to where before it was clearable at the 8-9k range... So asking for a 15k party for that?

It doesn't tell me you're some Elitist or that you're even good... it actually tells me you suck like there's no tomorrow and have to be carried...... (not you specifically Pointsman, I mean in general).

Yeah honestly for VT, even though its not necessary it will make things smoother. Same with a 13k+ GS party in Malabog's Castle.

But really 15k for... Karra and Frozen?

LOL its a joke.

diogene0 · April 2014

silverquick wrote: »

Well actually previously they were cleared at the minimum gear scores and without exploits,

I can personally attest to that. Yeah it was hard as hell and took a lot of patience, but it was actually doable. And admittedly everyone has suffered major nerfs since then, even us as CWs since I know you are one too. We do not have the same abillities for control we used to back then.

Still... at the very least for things like Karra and Frozen, those really can be cleared at the 11-12k GS range as to where before it was clearable at the 8-9k range... So asking for a 15k party for that?

It doesn't tell me you're some Elitist or that you're even good... it actually tells me you suck like there's no tomorrow and have to be carried...... (not you specifically Pointsman, I mean in general).

Yeah honestly for VT, even though its not necessary it will make things smoother. Same with a 13k+ GS party in Malabog's Castle.

But really 15k for... Karra and Frozen?

LOL its a joke.

I'm currently levelling a GWF. I remember doing T2 runs as a 10k GWF with other 9-10k people. Sure they need advices, they're using the wrong spells, but once they understand that no, a 9k CW can't facetank the spider queen and that the cleric using divine mode sunburst isn't a help at all, then things start working well and the fights are a lot easier. All you need is fresh 60s who played the game for two weeks and don't think they're pro game masters, ie people accepting critique and advices.

rashylewizz · April 2014

diogene0 wrote: »

I'm currently levelling a GWF. I remember doing T2 runs as a 10k GWF with other 9-10k people. Sure they need advices, they're using the wrong spells, but once they understand that no, a 9k CW can't facetank the spider queen and that the cleric using divine mode sunburst isn't a help at all, then things start working well and the fights are a lot easier. All you need is fresh 60s who played the game for two weeks and don't think they're pro game masters, ie people accepting critique and advices.

Who said anything about 9k? Even back then most people didn't clear Tier2 dungeons with 9k.

10.5k was the norm and also everyone knew that CW wasn't the best class for the spider boss

diogene0 · April 2014

rashylewizz wrote: »

Who said anything about 9k? Even back then most people didn't clear Tier2 dungeons with 9k.

10.5k was the norm and also everyone knew that CW wasn't the best class for the spider boss

10k is when you just reach lvl 60 and buy some purple T2/CN jewelry sold under salvage price. 12k is a week after reaching lvl 60, having a green artifact, maybe blue, and having unlocked the first two campaign boons for each campaign. That's today's standard, I know. There's really no reason to be less than 12k GS unless you really want it. But that was just an example, I had a great opportunity to test the so called "impossibility" to play T2 content near min GS and found out that it was merely players being clueless. Once they know about the boss mechanics and start using adequate spells there's no more issue.

damnataanimus · April 2014

diogene0 wrote: »

10k is when you just reach lvl 60 and buy some purple T2/CN jewelry sold under salvage price. 12k is a week after reaching lvl 60, having a green artifact, maybe blue, and having unlocked the first two campaign boons for each campaign. That's today's standard, I know. There's really no reason to be less than 12k GS unless you really want it. But that was just an example, I had a great opportunity to test the so called "impossibility" to play T2 content near min GS and found out that it was merely players being clueless. Once they know about the boss mechanics and start using adequate spells there's no more issue.

I do have to agree here - even with cheap AH blues you can EASILY get to 9.5k+ There is no reason to be under 11k, when you take into account artifact (even one blue) and chants. That to me says you are not willing to put any effort at all into your character and want to be carried and get easy loot

Just my 2 cents there. Others may have diff opinions. But - I have geared my GWF in full t2, ancient jewellery, dread legion sword, form sword knot (stupid CT wont give me OH), in less than 2 weeks of running dungeons. My CW and DC took a similar amount of time.

damnataanimus · April 2014

pitshade wrote: »

The Legit Chanel predates the gear score inflation of Mod2. The original incarnation actually predates the Shard merger. People used it then to run and beat the dungeons without cheating and without the ridiculously inflated GSs being talked about. Then people cheated their way through dungeons because they want to speed farm them or more often because the players themselves didn't know how to work together and play their classes. Now they just try to overgear the dungeons as much as they can, because tactics are hard apparently.

Speak for yourself.

I have NEVER exploited. I will usually tell a group that wants to to go ahead but I will leave.

They usually change their minds.

rashylewizz · April 2014

diogene0 wrote: »

10k is when you just reach lvl 60 and buy some purple T2/CN jewelry sold under salvage price. 12k is a week after reaching lvl 60, having a green artifact, maybe blue, and having unlocked the first two campaign boons for each campaign. That's today's standard, I know. There's really no reason to be less than 12k GS unless you really want it. But that was just an example, I had a great opportunity to test the so called "impossibility" to play T2 content near min GS and found out that it was merely players being clueless. Once they know about the boss mechanics and start using adequate spells there's no more issue.

I thought you were referring to 9 months ago

savrai · April 2014

Word of advice for finding a party on the Legit channel. Don't post your gear score or your companions because we don't care and be honest about your level of experience so we know what kind of run it's going to be.

Other than that, enjoy

pitshade · April 2014

damnataanimus wrote: »

Speak for yourself.

I have NEVER exploited. I will usually tell a group that wants to to go ahead but I will leave.

They usually change their minds.

I'm not sure why you seem to think I'm accusing you of anything, especially as we've never spoken before. I'm pretty sure I've seen you posting in Legit, so I wouldn't think you were an exploiter even if I commonly made that assumption about anyone else.

Gear Score Gating, out of hand?

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