My opinion about the PVP patch ( Maelstorm/Slam fix )

nathanmehew2435 · February 2014

You see the only problem with Slam and Maelstorm being "fixed" will make dungeons like Malabogs Castle rediculas again. I run a group with almost maxed gear and even for us it is hard to keep up the DPS on valindera every time she comes down from here hill. Not saying it cannot be done but if a group like mine has troubles then how is a group of people with 9,300 GS going to beat the dungeon i can tell you now they cannot and will not ever beat it without that "bug".

Solutions.
- Give valindera alot less health.
- Don't remove the "bug" with Maelstorm/Slam.

Please reply with your opinions because i would love to know what you think.
( Sorry if this is already posted somewhere i couldn't find anywhere to post my opinion )

disssspppp · February 2014

A group of 9,300 isn't going to kill Fulminorax as is. The change sucks, but he doesn't drop much good anyways. All it'll do is make the zone pretty much a permanent 2/3 now, and screw the people who haven't got that 1 good item for their class from the chest.

It probably won't be worth the effort any more, especially with a PuG.

xelliz · February 2014

After this "fix" for something that was ok for months, I feel that MC will be almost completely off limits to PUG's.

imsmithy · February 2014

It's just been confirmed by a member of the QA team that this fix is definitely going through , which is a shame but as they explained ,the bug allows players to circumnavigate certain boss mechanics , heres what they said -

asterdahl wrote: »

In live MMO development there's always a backlog of issues that need to be triaged and fixed in order of priority. However, when a developer is already working on a system, this is often the perfect opportunity to fix any outstanding bugs it might have.

That's the case with the powers in question here. Rest assured that this is not a case of powers being rebalanced for PvP. Slam and Maelstrom's effects were not working as intended and this was allowing players to circumvent a number of boss encounter mechanics.

If you feel that the powers themselves are too weak when working as designed, or that certain encounters have become too difficult as an effect of this change, please continue to provide that feedback!

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?602001-Shadowmantle-PvP-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-14-20140204a-1&p=7237221&viewfull=1#post7237221

chemboy613 · February 2014

Seriously guys, I have done mc without slam or malestorm. I think you can even four man it. Just need good burst and good coordination.

pointsman · February 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

Seriously guys, I have done mc without slam or malestorm. I think you can even four man it. Just need good burst and good coordination.

Well of course you can, if you already have BIS gear. You can probably kill Draco in under 10 minutes too.

But you don't even need T2 gear to have 9.3k GS. Heck, you might not even need T1 gear.

tickdoff · February 2014

Give Valindra the same HP in MC that her "Hand" has in VT. That would make that portion of the last fight mirror part of the VT last fight. The "hand" requires the party to shift focus briefly, which is pretty much the same mechanic as Valindra dropping down in MC, both dungeons are in the same approximate "tier" so a little synergy in the mechanics is not asking too much.

As it is now (with the change), Val had too many HP for a lot of groups, without slam/MoC it is going to be much more difficult.

nathanmehew2435 · February 2014

tickdoff wrote: »

Give Valindra the same HP in MC that her "Hand" has in VT. That would make that portion of the last fight mirror part of the VT last fight. The "hand" requires the party to shift focus briefly, which is pretty much the same mechanic as Valindra dropping down in MC, both dungeons are in the same approximate "tier" so a little synergy in the mechanics is not asking too much.

As it is now (with the change), Val had too many HP for a lot of groups, without slam/MoC it is going to be much more difficult.

Yes i agree changing her HP to the equivalent of VT's hand in Fase 2 would be best because it's not entirely impossible there where MC she has way so much HP for only being temp

frishter · February 2014

chemboy613 wrote: »

Seriously guys, I have done mc without slam or malestorm. I think you can even four man it. Just need good burst and good coordination.

That's great. Now remind me why people who actually have the gear needed for that will kill him? You need a lot of decent gear to make her well manageable, although slam/maelstrom was obviously broken (I recently' put a point in maelstrom :c) i think her health does need to be lowered, and better loot should drop. People who do mc are more likely to be selfish and do 2/3 as most of their OHs drop from those 2 bosses, and you can also get fragments/artifacts from just that too. The whole fact that specific bosses drop specific OHs that are BoP was a really bad idea in the first place, when most classes don't need to struggle to get theirs. If you have the gear, you probably don't want the rewards, if you don't have the gear, you're going to have a really hard time or find it impossible.

vasdamas · February 2014

Don't fix the bug? Well...:D I guess I can only find something like this on NWO!

And I don't remember any succesful group, I accomplished VT with, using mael/slam so no problem :P

mehguy138 · February 2014

My opinion is that fight is a bit different because of that "bug", which requires some tactics and cooperation to properly execute it. After the fix the fight will be common boring DPS fest.

It won't become a lot harder, it'll become a lot more boring in terms of design. The key is dealing as much damage as you can, in every encounter you face with, deal damage and dodge red. Fulminorax fight was different, it required to use something special then just the most damaging abilities, and it was really nice. Now, yeap, do damage and dodge red. How original.

charononus · February 2014

mehguy138 wrote: »

My opinion is that fight is a bit different because of that "bug", which requires some tactics and cooperation to properly execute it. After the fix the fight will be common boring DPS fest.

It won't become a lot harder, it'll become a lot more boring in terms of design. The key is dealing as much damage as you can, in every encounter you face with, deal damage and dodge red. Fulminorax fight was different, it required to use something special then just the most damaging abilities, and it was really nice. Now, yeap, do damage and dodge red. How original.

Yup this change has me contemplating uninstalling. It just highlights that the devs are very far out of touch from anything I find to be good boss fight design.

edit*
I just want to add in case the dev's read this or it gets reported to them.

The last fight of MC gave me hope that the devs understood how to make good pve bosses. Needing different classes to use specific abilities at certain times. That fight made it seem like they were working on improving it in that way, but were fighting time constraints and possibly the engine but that things were going to improve. This "fix" shows that that view was wrong and apparently too optimistic, a phrase that usually doesn't get applied to me, too optimistic. Anyways I hope that gives specific enough feedback about my thoughts on the changes.

kyokinss · February 2014

charononus wrote: »

The last fight of MC gave me hope that the devs understood how to make good pve bosses. Needing different classes to use specific abilities at certain times.

You needed two classes: CW and GWF, arguably the most viable PvE dps classes at the moment. How does that encourage variety in any way whatsoever? People complain about adds being spammed in dungeons but in VT and MC you have proper boss fights that require coordination and then you want it to be easier?

I have done MC a number of times on my GF by now and even I can take her down with just one other person on her (tactician specced, NOT conqueror). It's a fight that requires positioning between the phases so you can get to one of the four different spawns for the portal or simply grouping up (in the sense of being near eachother and not spread around the boss, not necessarily grouped up on top of eachother) and preparing for the choke and making sure that your team doesn't get tail swiped.

You complain about not being able to pug END-game content with an uncoordinated group that hasn't even completed their T2 set or done anything to prepare before entering the dungeon? In my opinion you should NOT be able to do it until you've at least done some work before instead of simply being able to rush into end-game content without any prior work. To me it always seemed like a rather obvious bug as the ability tooltips and how you'd expect the game to work were contradicting that you should be able to stun or interrupt a boss that easily in the first place.

It is a very doable fight. I did it with 3x GWF, a GF and a DC yesterday (obviously without slam) with gearscores in the 12-14k range (which you should be at once you have full T2 and have geared up through T2s before trying out MC). It requires coordination, positioning and proper play but in my opinion that's what an end-game dungeon SHOULD require and I really enjoy overcoming such challenges with a group of people. If you, on the other hand, have a farm mentality and don't like being challenged in any way whatsoever then by all means just do 2/3 and avoid such fights altogether, but I believe that it's very wrong to expect end-game content not to be challenging because you don't feel like playing the game properly (progressing step-by-step through the content and then actually having to play with a coordinated group and use proper strategies for end-game content).

schweifer1982 · February 2014

Too many changes come in the name of pvp.

beckylunatic · February 2014

Per devs, it is a PvE fix that happens to be bundled with a bunch of PvP stuff. Not WAI, getting changed, get over it.

charononus · February 2014

kyokinss wrote: »

You needed two classes: CW and GWF, arguably the most viable PvE dps classes at the moment. How does that encourage variety in any way whatsoever? People complain about adds being spammed in dungeons but in VT and MC you have proper boss fights that require coordination and then you want it to be easier?

I have done MC a number of times on my GF by now and even I can take her down with just one other person on her (tactician specced, NOT conqueror). It's a fight that requires positioning between the phases so you can get to one of the four different spawns for the portal or simply grouping up (in the sense of being near eachother and not spread around the boss, not necessarily grouped up on top of eachother) and preparing for the choke and making sure that your team doesn't get tail swiped.

You complain about not being able to pug END-game content with an uncoordinated group that hasn't even completed their T2 set or done anything to prepare before entering the dungeon? In my opinion you should NOT be able to do it until you've at least done some work before instead of simply being able to rush into end-game content without any prior work. To me it always seemed like a rather obvious bug as the ability tooltips and how you'd expect the game to work were contradicting that you should be able to stun or interrupt a boss that easily in the first place.

It is a very doable fight. I did it with 3x GWF, a GF and a DC yesterday (obviously without slam) with gearscores in the 12-14k range (which you should be at once you have full T2 and have geared up through T2s before trying out MC). It requires coordination, positioning and proper play but in my opinion that's what an end-game dungeon SHOULD require and I really enjoy overcoming such challenges with a group of people. If you, on the other hand, have a farm mentality and don't like being challenged in any way whatsoever then by all means just do 2/3 and avoid such fights altogether, but I believe that it's very wrong to expect end-game content not to be challenging because you don't feel like playing the game properly (progressing step-by-step through the content and then actually having to play with a coordinated group and use proper strategies for end-game content).

Sadly you apparently don't get it either. The change makes it just a dps check. Only dps checks = boring. Shorten the time it takes for her to summon/kill whatever to increase difficulty I don't care. But pure dps checks on every fight equates to unimaginative boring play.

Unknown · February 2014

This content has been removed.

chemboy613 · February 2014

pointsman wrote: »

Well of course you can, if you already have BIS gear. You can probably kill Draco in under 10 minutes too.

But you don't even need T2 gear to have 9.3k GS. Heck, you might not even need T1 gear.

Best draco kill - 2:50 for me, personally

I would say 4-5 minutes is average.

I 3 manned draco in about 9 minutes.

chemboy613 · February 2014

And yeah... i wish we could have more special use powers. I play CW 90% of the time right now and I would only change my bar for single target or PvP. With so many cool powers, why is it that one bar becomes optimal?

Same for other classes too. I like changing gear and skills, but ultimately it's unnecessary now.

My opinion about the PVP patch ( Maelstorm/Slam fix )

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