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pvp balance at level 60
pallier
Member Posts: 149 Arc User
just like pve the pvp needs to be based on GEAR SCORE at level 60
honestly i'm sick of being grouped with all players with 4k to 7k gear score and pitted against another team where everyone is 22k gear score and just 1 of their team members can kill our whole party without taking any damage...
its so unbalanced it doesnt' matter what you do to the classes or what you try to do to make it fair 1 vs 1 you have to realize a 22k gear score is like a level 75 and a 5k gear score is a level 59 so its way unbalanced.
i mean honestly its my fault that someone else didn't bother to upgrade their gear before they pvp? should I really have to wait 7 hours spamming the Looking For Group channel just to find players with decent gear score that hasn't already finished with their pvp dailies?
its a big part of the game system as important as pve needing the proper gear score to complete so you should have it at level 60 the same as well where it tells you brackets of gear score and you can only join the bracket with yours.
and while I'm at it... penalize the players that leave the pvp early by not allowing them to flag again for an extended amount of time... 1 hour for first leave, 12 hours for second, 24 hours for 3rd, and 3 days for the fourth in a weeks time that resets every week. keep those quiters out of pvp. some may say that "oh what if i have a dissconnect or have to relog?" then it should keep you in party and in the pvp event even if you get logged out or dissconnect. you have to manually leave the party to exit the pvp and then you get the penalty... "what about if half my team leaves and i have no shot at winning anymore?" stick it out.
every time a player leaves on his own the team that the player left should split whatever reward that player had coming, if he was to get 200 glory just for showing up then the other 4 will get 1/4 of it and he gets nothing for leaving.
make it happen people fix the pvp in this game to make it worth doing!
honestly i'm sick of being grouped with all players with 4k to 7k gear score and pitted against another team where everyone is 22k gear score and just 1 of their team members can kill our whole party without taking any damage...
its so unbalanced it doesnt' matter what you do to the classes or what you try to do to make it fair 1 vs 1 you have to realize a 22k gear score is like a level 75 and a 5k gear score is a level 59 so its way unbalanced.
i mean honestly its my fault that someone else didn't bother to upgrade their gear before they pvp? should I really have to wait 7 hours spamming the Looking For Group channel just to find players with decent gear score that hasn't already finished with their pvp dailies?
its a big part of the game system as important as pve needing the proper gear score to complete so you should have it at level 60 the same as well where it tells you brackets of gear score and you can only join the bracket with yours.
and while I'm at it... penalize the players that leave the pvp early by not allowing them to flag again for an extended amount of time... 1 hour for first leave, 12 hours for second, 24 hours for 3rd, and 3 days for the fourth in a weeks time that resets every week. keep those quiters out of pvp. some may say that "oh what if i have a dissconnect or have to relog?" then it should keep you in party and in the pvp event even if you get logged out or dissconnect. you have to manually leave the party to exit the pvp and then you get the penalty... "what about if half my team leaves and i have no shot at winning anymore?" stick it out.
every time a player leaves on his own the team that the player left should split whatever reward that player had coming, if he was to get 200 glory just for showing up then the other 4 will get 1/4 of it and he gets nothing for leaving.
make it happen people fix the pvp in this game to make it worth doing!
Oh Atari how I miss you!
Post edited by pallier on
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And juvenile comments like these never help anything. It's all well and good that you are having "fun" in the current stale PvP environment, pubstomping undergeared or less organized players, but if you are to pretend that PvP as it is is perfectly fine and healthy and requires no tweaks, then you sadly need to re-assess the situation.
not once did i say nerf... i said FIX... honestly how do you expect a 5k gear score to pvp against a 33k gear score? your that stupid? they can't even do damage to the 33k if the 33k stood there and let them attack.
I understand the desire for more balanced PVP matches, but any queue system will have to account for more than just gearscore to make it happen.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If you actually want to *win* at level 60 PVP, then you have three choices:
1. Create a perma-stealth tenebrous TR
2. Create a cookie-cutter executioner TR
3. Create a regen-sentinel GWF
All the rest of the time, you're just going to be outmatched despite whatever gear you have, despite what the rest of your team is doing, despite whatever matchmaking system (or lack thereof) exists at the current moment.
Now of course there are exceptions of oustanding CWs or GFs or DCs in PVP, but they are rare.
So when people say "learn to play", what they really mean is, "learn to play a TR/GWF".
they why bother balancing any classes in the name of pvp? why not just let them all be over powered and have at it all day? what's the point in pvp at all if you have to play a certain class and build to play it? other classes want to enjoy pvp too without being completely useless because of gear and builds that are always the win... no talent involved just have the right skills and high gear score and you win over someone else non stop without the need to ever even try.
no my friend if thats the case take pvp out of the game because its pointless to have it and stop "balancing" the classes like removing the hunter rangers high damage fan shot because its OP in pvp... yeah pointless.
Because balancing takes developer time, and brings about 0 (zero) $$$ profits? Who knows.
What is sure is that PvP is not nearly a top priority in this game. It was just thrown in here and players were left to deal with it how they could.
I'm sure most people try to, and you know what, PvP before lvl.60 actually allows it: You can take it easy, have fun and still do fairly well in PvP, this all due to pre-mades/enchants/GS being far less of an influencial factor before lvl.60. "Fun" and "Desire to win" shouldn't be mutually exclusive, You shouldn't NEED to create pre-made or limit yourself to specific classes and builds in order to have fun in a mode such as this.
Regardless, there is really no easy fix to the enchant/GS issue without undermining players' effort and progress in the game, again, I still don't think GS is THAT big an issue considering, for example, a fresh lvl.40 queued up with lvl.48-49s, sure you are considerably weaker than others, but it does not in any way make you useless, I'm sure most of us have had experiences where our fresh bottom-level-of-the-bracket toon managed fairly well in PvP, and the stats disparity between bottom-of-bracket vs top-of-bracket is really no different to that of a fresh all-blue lvl.60 vs T2 lvl.60. The problem, I feel, lies with enchants. The scary part of that is, with the coming of Module 2, you can disenchant without needing to fork out AD, which will likely mean that more people will start throwing top end enchants on their low-level toons' gears, which means the same issue will likely start oozing to below lvl.60 PvP.
Pre-made issue has a simple solution: Let them be matched with pre-mades.
Horse speed? Another easy fix: Normalize horse speed, in fact, they should simply buff all mounts to max speed in PvP, it'd give players a taste of purple mount speed which may even encourage them in getting one!
Cryptics is not responsible in teaching people how to use their brains, this is simply a player problem and one they will have to learn to remedy the hard way.
The guy is clearly exaggerating out of frustration.
Congratulations, you have just correctly described Level 60 PVP. You win 1 Internetz.
easy... not allowed to take off or put on gear after you enter... so they would have to pvp naked or pvp at a lower level GS with others that have the same GS, prefect balance.
as for the mount thing... not allow mounts in pvp.
make all the enhansments not work in pvp.
totally on pure gear stats alone shall they survive no special power enhanstments or super high ranking ones if there are no special advantages it becomes about stratagy and skill which is fun not about what you can buy as a wallet warrior.
this would also do away with the cries for nerf for those rogues that can do 29k hits and CW with those permanent holds from having just a 1 second cooldown on all their skills.
think about what you want pvp to be and what steps you can take to stop it from being something else. I agree level 1-59 is perfectly balanced pvp because even with the higher enhansments its not about gear because they can't get higher gear than the rest thus its balanced. but at 60 there are more than 6 Tiers worth of gear that can make someone extremely OP due to abilities and stats that just make their physical level higher than 60 so like i said earlier its like level 75's fighting level 59's.
the point of pvp is to have fun... how much fun can a player have if they can't even leave home base at all? what's the point if when you join less than 1 minute your whole party leaves you? why even have an auto queue why not say you must preform a party before you can even enter?
pvp may not be the focus of this game it may not even be a priority to them but DON'T nerf a class in the name of balance for pvp if your not going to fix the rest of pvp as well... give Clerics back full strength heals on themselves, give back hunter rangers strong attacks like storm and split shot, give back the fast stamina regen on rogues, give back all the things you took away from classes in the name of pvp UNTIL you fix the biggest pvp unbalance which is enhansments and gear score miss match as well as players that leave with no penalty.
We do need balanced matchmaking though. Perhaps matchmaking by something like win:loss ratio would be better. This could also make it easier to implement a highscore system if wins and losses were to be tracked.
GS is calculated according to your stats and numbers. Enchantments that provide abilities rather than stat boost don't affect GS.
Reason why you can't base matchmaking in GS.
which again if you make all enchantments invalid and not work in pvp... it would be based totally on the gear and stats alone.
as for a rank system... they would have to seperate it for team and individual then... because players that preform teams and enter with friends that do nothing but pvp will have a higher rating than someone that solos queueing with different groups.
which means if you flag for the queue solo... you get put against others that flag solo. if you flag as a team you get put against others flagged as a team all matched by the rating. If that happens tho some players would lose on purpose to keep in the lower rating to farm glory.
then there is the matter of your rating being lowered by players that leave the party so your solo vs a 5 man team which you can't win.
Rar'rizton Kenana, Level 60 Drow Elf Trickster Rogue
Syrus Greycloak, Level 30 Moon Elf Control Wizard
Lucan Huntinghawk, Level 17 Moon Elf Hunter Ranger
Sacred Silver Blades (www.sacredkeep.com)
Fixing PVP is the ONLY solution to reduce leavers. Can't people finally understand that? Stop this bouldercrap finally with all this "punish the leavers". You should all be happy that people actually play this game. For 500 die-hard PVP players Cryptic won't run their servers. This game would just be shut down!
Instead of making people leave the game you all should ask yourself how to get even more players into PVP to have fun there. Or do you really want to play everyday against the same die-hard PVP players that are not punished? Must be really fun to have everyday the same guys with their TRs and GWFs around to fight.
I don't get it how stubborn some people are...
Actually, no. One-sided match doesn't only happen when there's a gear disparity or pre-made vs PUG, it can happen simply due to players being smarter/dumber or better overall co-ordination. Some people really really hate losing and will leave at the first sign of being outplayed, this isn't something uncommon to PvP online games, we have leavers everywhere, even in games that are well-balanced.
Putting aside the issue of balance, people need to learn to respect their opponents. They, too, are most likely trying to have fun, just like yourself. By simply leaving, you are ruining the fun not only for your opponents, but your fellow teammates as well, it's an extremely selfish thing to do and very much deserving of punishment in order to discourage.
You are taking the word "balance" far too literal, it doesn't mean "perfectly equal" in video game industry.
matchmaking,than add a penalty.
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The problem is in this game there is rock, who beats scissors and paper who beats rock...oh wait, the scissors beat everyone! nothing to see here, go away.
Rock Paper Scissor games bring frustration to those without a chance.
Each class should be completely viable to face any other on its own, without the need to call on anybody else, besides for increased efficiency reasons. Each class should have their own set of PvP utilities - immunities, escapes etc.
Can true balance be achieved? No. It is a never-ending work of balance patches and continuous feedback monitoring.
the problem isn't finding people to play on my team... its we have no choice in who we FIGHT. so unless i never pvp until i have everything I can possibly get from the game... its just no use in pvping. funny how 1-59 pvp was fun and it was great yet 60 is so unbalanced.... can't you see why? it's not people needing to be the same class with no gear or skills... its the fact that 60 may be the physical level cap but you can still keep leveling with gear score and abilities like campains which means there must be a method of seperating the new 60's that haven't had enough time to earn everything from the players that already have everything in the game.
oh and as for the quitters... most of them quit less than 30 seconds in if they don't completely own the other team its not one of those matches where its half way over and your team has no points and the other team has 700 points... no its hey look my team mate just died this team must suck i'm out! 10 seconds into the match. So yeah there needs to be a penalty to reduce the number of players doing that... I can understand if your team has a bot on it and you want to leave or you get players that hide in the home base and never come out or something but if your whole team is honestly trying to win and you leave after the very first fight... you should be out of pvp all day.
Well sure, in about 1% of the cases. The rest of the time, leaving happens when:
1. Your team has a wanna-be general who insists on ordering everyone around, and then when the team stubbornly refuses to obey his orders, he ragequits;
2. Your team has an "elite" PVPer who can't be bothered to play on a team that also has a guy with 6k GS, so he ragequits;
3. Your team is up against a premade who crushes your team within the first 30 seconds by sending a Regen Sent GWF or Perma-Stealth Tene TR to your homebase, killing everyone and making it absolutely hopeless that your team will even get 50 points out of 1000
If the professional PVPers want to cut down on quitters, then don't play like you are facing off against a PVP guild premade! Because you're *not*. You are playing against average players in a casual game.
I can pretty much guarantee that when pro athletes play pickup sports games in the offseason, that they don't behave as if they are playing in a world championship match against other pro athletes. They play casual games. So should you.
If you are pugging, stop trying to play Napoleon. If the rest of your team immediately runs to home base at the start of the match, and not to center point, big deal! It doesn't mean the match is automatically over. Guess what, they are likely running to home base to get 300 points, because with the matchmaking being so imbalanced, those initial 300 points might be the *only way* they will get to 500 points for a glory reward.
If you are pugging and a guy on your team has 6k GS, then play anyway and consider it a challenge to see if you can carry your team to victory despite the obvious handicap. Maybe even toss him a pointer or two.
If you are pugging, try something new. Don't necessarily bring your "A" game because it's not necessary. Besides, who cares if you win or lose? It's a *casual game*.
Those are things that you can do to cut down on quitters right now without any programming changes.
gf and tr's seem very much to be one trick pony's - but I think module2 will fix that.
but seriously though - it would be nice if cryptic spent 7 days doing nothing but figuring out why pvp is so aggravating in this game. I think i'm much more used, as a player, to talking to other game companies that seem to engage their players in more open discussion.
rock paper scissors is balanced because they are akin to weapons and you get to choose which weapon you'll use for each battle. they are not classes that you must keep for every battle. trying to compare classes to rock paper scissors is ridiculous.
The only balancing that can be done is by the players - get the gear you need and get together with groups that work for you. If you don't have that, make some friends, be social, and MAKE it happen for you.
Rar'rizton Kenana, Level 60 Drow Elf Trickster Rogue
Syrus Greycloak, Level 30 Moon Elf Control Wizard
Lucan Huntinghawk, Level 17 Moon Elf Hunter Ranger
Sacred Silver Blades (www.sacredkeep.com)