To talk about current trends for Delzoun's issues making it into GG PVP, we have to first understand that this is a symptomatic problem. Pre-merge Dragon server/Post merger, Delzoun had a large amount of players that would participate in the GG event, because they would win. The reason they would win was because a lot of those players had better gear. The reason they had better gear was because they would be able to run the t2 dungeon more often, which was augmented by the patch that stopped Luskans' from leaving the gate early while Delzoun were still able to. This gave them a slight head start that would always seem insurmountable after the first 5 minutes.
Now I'm not here to say that Luskans never won/win.
What I'm saying is that people love to maximize rewards for their efforts. As Delzoun began to become known for having the pvp advantage, guilds started specifically using that as a recruitment tool. People who cared about winning left guilds because of GG allegiances; the rich got richer, and the poor got poorer.
Now I mentioned 5 minutes as a marker earlier, and that's significant. 5 Minutes is the average time to see a clear advantage in points for the pvp event. Because of this, this is usually when people on the Luskan side either go AFK at the spawn point or quit outright. Personally I've commonly seen the Luskans go 17 vs 20 by the end of the 4th minute if the point disadvantage is greater than 100.
To help prove the original posters topic, as a Luskan, I can work on the Catapults, Feed the Giant, and after both of those have finished, I can queue for PVP as an individual (10 mins to spare) and still get into an event. Very different than the "must queue before the 27th minute."
As a caveat, I'd love to see stats on wins/losses, (again I admit that Luskans don't always lose) and I'm sure that it wouldn't take much to find those numbers and post them. Would it become a self-fulfilling prophecy for the future? Who knows. But it would sure be nice to confirm what a lot of people are already talking about.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
No direct in game advantage? So you're saying the fact that one side always being able to farm both a T2 dungeon and a T1 dungeon while the other side can only farm a T1 dungeon isn't an in game advantage.
You must have skim read the post.
There is no in game advantage given to one side over the other due to any direct game mechanics to cause one side to win or lose more or less than the other. Assuming that the claims are true then more of the better equipped or PvP centered guilds are on one side than the other.
There's no simple cause for that. There's nothing within the map itself giving one side an advantage over the other. It's purely because one side is better than the other for whatever reason.
So if a solution is to be found it is in how the community has distributed itself. And as somebody else pointed out this problem is well within the community's power to resolve as this is a community caused problem. Not a mechanically caused problem, at least not directly.
Because that doesn't solve the problem. If there are say, 315 delzoun players and all of them are in 5-mans, but only 120 Luskans, that still leaves 195 Delzouns without a PvP match.
The solution may be in the hands of the community and their good will to re-spread the love of Luskans and Delzouns but if this doesn't happen, then the game is going to lose one of the starting points of gear farming for new players. This is were developers will need to step in. If something is unbalanced in such a degree, you can't expect people to fix it by simply choosing the side that loses the most and support it.
Since it's unacceptable to wait for 30 minutes in each queue in order to PvP and then not even starting the match, I would suggest that sides are selected randomly and probably entirely dropping the allegiance to the two clans. This would mean rescheduling of the GG PVE first phase, but I guess that it's easier than expecting people to change clans just because the other side is losing.
I find it funny that now it's said that pvp guilds join GG just to pvp... Even horrible terrible <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> normal pvp is better than GG one, except if you like gangbanging others. Never quite see any tough and nice fights there, usually it is just 10vs2 etc.
But simple solution is, everyone join Delzoun side.
So if a solution is to be found it is in how the community has distributed itself. And as somebody else pointed out this problem is well within the community's power to resolve as this is a community caused problem. Not a mechanically caused problem, at least not directly.
While I will agree 100% and admit that the community could fix this issue itself if it wanted to. But you also have to admit that this is very unlikely to happen. Lets face it, the community could just choose to not use exploits but they don't (well not all of them) thus forcing the devs to fix them. And sadly this will end up being basically the same thing. Why would the players on the Delzoun side give up their advantage that almost insures that they will be able to run and farm a T2 dungeon?
Its not like we're asking the devs to do something they've never done before. They've made changes to classes that weren't do an exploit or even a case of not WAI but simply because they felt it gave the class an unfair advantage. Permastealth TRs jumping while throwing daggers is a good example. No one cared about TRs jumping while throwing daggers or about permastealths, but add the 2 together and the forums lit up. It was nothing more then a tactic (however annoying) that players didn't like so it got changed. You can still permastealth, can still jump, can still throw daggers, can even still jump while permastealthed.....just cant do all 3.
So again, the server merging created an issue that while the community could fix itself, it wont and so the devs will need to step in and fix it for us. Not too mention that its kind of ridiculous to expect the community to shell out 700k AD per guild to change sides to fix something that cryptic did by merging the servers.....especially when you consider the fact that cryptic continues to limit ways to make AD while adding more AD sinks.
After u do 9000+ 5v5 pvp u gotta spice it up. And plus some people still need skulkers offhand :x. And maybe we could get the guilds to gg when it comes around. We did it a few times this week.
U R 2 E Z- SENT IV GWF undefeated 16k GS
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Comments
Now I'm not here to say that Luskans never won/win.
What I'm saying is that people love to maximize rewards for their efforts. As Delzoun began to become known for having the pvp advantage, guilds started specifically using that as a recruitment tool. People who cared about winning left guilds because of GG allegiances; the rich got richer, and the poor got poorer.
Now I mentioned 5 minutes as a marker earlier, and that's significant. 5 Minutes is the average time to see a clear advantage in points for the pvp event. Because of this, this is usually when people on the Luskan side either go AFK at the spawn point or quit outright. Personally I've commonly seen the Luskans go 17 vs 20 by the end of the 4th minute if the point disadvantage is greater than 100.
To help prove the original posters topic, as a Luskan, I can work on the Catapults, Feed the Giant, and after both of those have finished, I can queue for PVP as an individual (10 mins to spare) and still get into an event. Very different than the "must queue before the 27th minute."
As a caveat, I'd love to see stats on wins/losses, (again I admit that Luskans don't always lose) and I'm sure that it wouldn't take much to find those numbers and post them. Would it become a self-fulfilling prophecy for the future? Who knows. But it would sure be nice to confirm what a lot of people are already talking about.
You must have skim read the post.
There is no in game advantage given to one side over the other due to any direct game mechanics to cause one side to win or lose more or less than the other. Assuming that the claims are true then more of the better equipped or PvP centered guilds are on one side than the other.
There's no simple cause for that. There's nothing within the map itself giving one side an advantage over the other. It's purely because one side is better than the other for whatever reason.
So if a solution is to be found it is in how the community has distributed itself. And as somebody else pointed out this problem is well within the community's power to resolve as this is a community caused problem. Not a mechanically caused problem, at least not directly.
Because that doesn't solve the problem. If there are say, 315 delzoun players and all of them are in 5-mans, but only 120 Luskans, that still leaves 195 Delzouns without a PvP match.
Since it's unacceptable to wait for 30 minutes in each queue in order to PvP and then not even starting the match, I would suggest that sides are selected randomly and probably entirely dropping the allegiance to the two clans. This would mean rescheduling of the GG PVE first phase, but I guess that it's easier than expecting people to change clans just because the other side is losing.
But simple solution is, everyone join Delzoun side.
While I will agree 100% and admit that the community could fix this issue itself if it wanted to. But you also have to admit that this is very unlikely to happen. Lets face it, the community could just choose to not use exploits but they don't (well not all of them) thus forcing the devs to fix them. And sadly this will end up being basically the same thing. Why would the players on the Delzoun side give up their advantage that almost insures that they will be able to run and farm a T2 dungeon?
Its not like we're asking the devs to do something they've never done before. They've made changes to classes that weren't do an exploit or even a case of not WAI but simply because they felt it gave the class an unfair advantage. Permastealth TRs jumping while throwing daggers is a good example. No one cared about TRs jumping while throwing daggers or about permastealths, but add the 2 together and the forums lit up. It was nothing more then a tactic (however annoying) that players didn't like so it got changed. You can still permastealth, can still jump, can still throw daggers, can even still jump while permastealthed.....just cant do all 3.
So again, the server merging created an issue that while the community could fix itself, it wont and so the devs will need to step in and fix it for us. Not too mention that its kind of ridiculous to expect the community to shell out 700k AD per guild to change sides to fix something that cryptic did by merging the servers.....especially when you consider the fact that cryptic continues to limit ways to make AD while adding more AD sinks.
Just something to consider.
FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
(all halfling everything)
Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]