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Address the issue of too many Delzouns vs Luskans for Gauntlgrym
nwnghost
Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
Since the server merge and continuing on from then, it has now become impossible to get into the PvP part of Armories of Moradin unless you queued before the timer passes the 27:10 minute mark.
Even over the weekend on the 7 occassions I was at Gauntlgrym, queuing once the timer goes into the 26th minute mark, you simply do not get into PvP anymore as Delzoun if you are not part of a full 5 man team (priority queue). I usually queue with 1-2 other people and we can get the Armories Share from doing the tasks but we simply never see the PvP queue popup coming unless we queue within the first 3 minutes.
About 2 weeks ago, you could still get in if you queued before the 23rd minute and before the server merge, you could get in if you queued at the 16th minute mark.
There certainly are way too many Delzoun guilds or active level 60 players in Delzoun allied guilds compared to the number of active level 60 Luskan players around and probably this is due to people thinking that:
1. Delzouns always win GG and thus get access to Dwarf King Crypt
2. It costs 750k AD to change allegiance
I would like to suggest the following (any ONE of the below or several) to address this:
A. Disable priority queue for Gauntlgrym PvP for full 5 player teams. Make it first come first serve.
B. Make it free to charge to change guild allegiance to the side with fewer level 60 characters if the imbalance is greater than 1.3:1
C. Allow players to pick which side they want to queue for in PvP and that choice sticks for the dungeon part (only if they actually get into the PvP part to avoid last minute sniping Dwarf King)
D. After a server maintenance, reset the allegiance of all guilds and allow them to pick their side anew. Do not allow choosing a side which already has significantly more level 60 players.
E. Rather than have guilds allied to Gauntlgrym Factions, make it Character-based allegiance. Costs 500k to change allegiance, cannot pick side with significantly fewer level 60 characters.
Even over the weekend on the 7 occassions I was at Gauntlgrym, queuing once the timer goes into the 26th minute mark, you simply do not get into PvP anymore as Delzoun if you are not part of a full 5 man team (priority queue). I usually queue with 1-2 other people and we can get the Armories Share from doing the tasks but we simply never see the PvP queue popup coming unless we queue within the first 3 minutes.
About 2 weeks ago, you could still get in if you queued before the 23rd minute and before the server merge, you could get in if you queued at the 16th minute mark.
There certainly are way too many Delzoun guilds or active level 60 players in Delzoun allied guilds compared to the number of active level 60 Luskan players around and probably this is due to people thinking that:
1. Delzouns always win GG and thus get access to Dwarf King Crypt
2. It costs 750k AD to change allegiance
I would like to suggest the following (any ONE of the below or several) to address this:
A. Disable priority queue for Gauntlgrym PvP for full 5 player teams. Make it first come first serve.
B. Make it free to charge to change guild allegiance to the side with fewer level 60 characters if the imbalance is greater than 1.3:1
C. Allow players to pick which side they want to queue for in PvP and that choice sticks for the dungeon part (only if they actually get into the PvP part to avoid last minute sniping Dwarf King)
D. After a server maintenance, reset the allegiance of all guilds and allow them to pick their side anew. Do not allow choosing a side which already has significantly more level 60 players.
E. Rather than have guilds allied to Gauntlgrym Factions, make it Character-based allegiance. Costs 500k to change allegiance, cannot pick side with significantly fewer level 60 characters.
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Comments
- JailBreak (in development)
I say, I want this game to have at least one evil diety I can worship and kill Delzoun in the name of it.
Also, yes, I find it quite unfair that Luskans can't get an access to the GG T2 dungeon because their side isn't as good equipped with skilled/high gs players as Delzoun. It is a HUGE problem actually. They need to either add limit for the ammount of Delzoun/Luskan guilds or I don't know...add overall GS score for each team?(not sure if it would work though)
WTB Class Reroll please
Contrast with two-faction systems like...say...warhammer online, where the inequality got so bad they started nerfing JUST the evil classes so they wouldn't kerbstomp the outnumbered goodguys every time.
mod note: please focus on the topic at hand. note that guild drama is against the forum rules of conduct so there is no need to bring up guild names in this thread.
do not respond to this mod note. instead, send a PM to the community moderators or the community managers if you have a question about this mod note.
While I think a 3rd faction is also a valid option, I am afraid that at this point you still have to convince people to move to the new faction. I suppose if adding a 3rd faction, they could clear all the guilds allegiance and then everyone would have to choose again.
- JailBreak (in development)
Also, can we not change GG so ALL factions have access to the Dwarf King Crypt if they run Iron Tabernacle and Armories of Moradin? The event only happens once every 6 hours anyway, and I think more people would participate and enjoy the game if they had access to either dungeon as a reward for their participation.
What if you could buy something Artifact/Refinement related with Grym Coins?
Point was missed. OP said there are too many Delzouns, and because of that the Delzouns find it hard to get queued in GG PvP because there is no Luskan counterpart.
Easy fix is that when a guild is created, the system automatically makes it a Delzoun one / Luskan one, according to the current respective population. As long as the choice belongs to the guild leader, obviously they will tend to choose the winning side.
Fun stuff since everyone who plays GG knows that Delzoun wins 95% of GG rounds. I yet haven't seen any wins since I moved to Luskan side ( after server merge ). Before merge I played most of time in Delzoun's and lost few rounds total.
I wonder how lost a moderator must be if he doesn't know the situation at the moment.
After merge:
- 1st match just after merger, some Silent Blade/Lemonade Stand pugged GG PvP so we won quite easily. I stopped doing GG for a few weeks
- I returned to GG, played maybe 10-15 matches, only out of curiosity. Delzoun won all, detached. Delzoun always had at least 6-9 names I recognize from Domination, small PvP guild groups running together quite obviously on voice chat. Luskan? Full of GS 7K-8K people, nobody from any guild I've know to be PvPing
- last 2 matches there were 2 or 3 Enemy Team players with us, we still lost
Conclusion?
You can't win with just 4-5 decent people from 20. Somebody needs to hold some points defend, stall... Luskan side has so many poorly geared people, they have 0 chance of survival outside of big groups, so all Luskan does is ride around the map in as big group as possible, cap a point, go to the other. Some of these matches you barely even see the enemy because of all the cavalcade.
Before patch, on Mindflayer, I used to run T2 half of the GG games I was in. Nowadays I don't even take the GG dungeon daily, I know I won't be seeing T2.
It's easy to tell people in blues with no enchants trying to get a GG set "l2p", when your side has half of their guys in BiS armor with greaters and perfects and most importantly, used to PvP a lot.
I also don't like the PvE part of the game, so for me and more pvp focused guilds, we don't go there for PVP. I was used to go there a lot however when we could sell GGcoins items on Auction House. since they made these items BOP i stopped going, like my friends.
if they give better rewards on GG, be sure these good guilds on Luskan side will go there.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
But, just like the mod (and others) in this thread, the dev's just didn't pay attention.
[read the OPs post. what is complaining about? why are you guys posting about win/loss?]
I think this is more a less an issue that everybody likes to win and stigmas are created. From June 20 until the end of August Delzoun was so consistently losing GG PvP on Mindflayer even if we had the buffs my guild as a whole lost interest in GG. It's quite the shock to have been hearing claims that Delzoun is winning now coming based on my past experiences.
I guess enough of the better guilds on the other shards were in Delzoun to make a huge difference after the merge or enough of the worse guilds switched to Luskan before and/or after the merge.
Whether or not the claim that Delzoun wins all of the games is true or not I can promise you from personal experience that is has absolutely nothing to do with any unfair advantage because the tides were the exact opposite on the Mondflayer server for months.
So the problem isn't for the devs to do something about either side winning all the time because there is no direct in game advantage to one side or the other.
It's for the community and the devs to consider why the community never seems to have a happy mix of power on each side.
In reality, the community could easily fix this itself. It's just the fact that everyone wants to win and be able to do Dwarf King- arguably one of the only solid ways to make AD left in the game (for the next few days).
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
this 100%. Before the merge it wasn't rare to see the luskans win every now and then but since the merge I've seen th luskans win once....im guessing the delzouns were sleeping or too tired of winning lol. But no matter how you look at it, GG allegiance is unbalanced in favor of delzouns at the moment. I can confirm this by the simple fact that as a luskan I can solo queue for the PvP as late as 5 minutes left and still get in.
When I checked my friendlist, a lot of them were also camping out at the Atrium and the highest Armories of Moradin instance number I saw was 16.
Even a few weeks ago I would see the instance number as high as 33 at the very least. IMO this should be addressed with some priority.
No direct in game advantage? So you're saying the fact that one side always being able to farm both a T2 dungeon and a T1 dungeon while the other side can only farm a T1 dungeon isn't an in game advantage. I mean it doesn't take a lot of thinking to realize that having one side being able to make a lot of ADs from farming and selling T2 gear thus allowing them to buy better enchants/runes/mounts/whatever else they want while the other side is spending their ADs buying the gear they cant farm thus forcing them to take longer to buy the better enchants ect ect. It's a clear advantage.
But come on, its not like cryptic doesn't make changes based on their own opinions of why they're needed. So why not this?
the point ambisinisterr is trying to make (i think) is that with 20v20 being queued for pvp, there is no direct in-game advantage per match... while the OP is stating that there aren't even numbered factions actively involved in GG which prevents some people from getting into GG pvp. and i had previously stated that this is anecdotal and i don't think i've missed the point at all. in order to participate in GG, players have to go to the GG zone and if those numbers are not balanced, then you're likely going to have problems getting into the GG pvp match(es). and this is anecdotal because how many people are participating in GG could vary due to different factors.
i think some changes could alleviate some of the issues. allowing disconnected players the ability to rejoin a match or if not that, let queued players replaced dropped players. this would eliminate an unbalanced match (by attendance anyway) and allow those still waiting in queue to play. they could also allow 5v5, 10v10 and 15v15 matches or Even#vEven# matches instead of a hard 20v20.
The only thing I can really comment on the matter is the following. What is the intended gameplay of pvp in general and Gg in particular? Why did the map set up the capture system the way they did? (other than the players teamed up together, there are no defences for capture points - it's a king of the hill grudge match)
I am not talking about character class balance or gear balance at the moment, I am talking about the intended gameplay by the dev's. Until I understand that than I have no way of encouraging them to alter the map.
Edit: I forgot to mention, probably unnecessary, that my guild, Rising Star is luskan - LONG LIVE THE PIRATES
Not much Dev can do lol
This 100%. There is absolutely no reason for the better pvp guilds to do GG.
They want more participation, give us a reason to go. Allow us to enter the same match with 10-20 of our guildmates against another group of 10-20. make it a true 20 v 20 and maybe that will give us a reason to go.
OR. pay us to attend.
Umm, Dwarf's King Crypt? Isn't that what this whole complaint is about, that the Luskans hardly ever get to go into Dwarf's King Crypt?
PvP guilds don't care about PvE. I won't speak for LS or ET, but I can say that 99% of the time (unless someone is gearing an alt and wants the t2 pvp gear) No one in TSB/FI cares about which dungeon they get to do. It's all about the PvP. We don't even participate in the PvE portion. just join for pvp and leave GG. That is the complaint being addressed. That the OP PvP'ers no longer do GG. and I as well as Gannicus stated why. No reason too. BoP killed it for us.
so complain to Cryptic to separate GG into actual PVE and PVP. all you pve'ers fight the pve part and make THAT decide which PVE dungeon u do. Take out the PvP portion, and make that at least the START at a Guild pvp 20v20 and be done with it.
They screwed up GG from the inception. So it's obvious. Delzon has the better PvE'ers. Luskan has the PvP'ers. PvP'ers no longer participate, soooooooooo.
So why not form a 5-man premade for GG?