It's quite simple: CWs are not supposed to be the "kings of AoE damage", as they call themselves. But they are. And they are the kings of cc too. It's all cause the devs, instead of making the GWF the kings of AoE damage in PvE, like the say they want to do, preferred to do it this way.
cw's are the ONLY mage type class in the game, 99% of ALL mage type players, plays mages for the DMG!!! nothing else. forcing these players even further away from this VERY basic and ALWAYS used aspect of a MAGE would be wildly hurtfull to the playerbase amount...
the issue is to have both gwf and gf's, since they are supposedly filling the same role CLOSE COMBAT TANKS, while TR is CLOSE COMBAT DPS.
clerics, healing as always, and Cw's Ranged dps AS IN EVERY MMO out there (and for good reasons, people wanting to play mage type classes does it 99% of the time for the effects,feel and dmg numbers.. even in D&D (not familier with 4rd) the wizard/sorc got huge dmg potential in comparison to other classes you might play)
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
1st, this is a necro,
and 2nd, the topic title is misleading, (good) GWFs are awesome to have EVERYWHERE in this game: PvP, MC, CN, T2s... everywhere having a GWF is almost always better than having a GF or a TR.
And if you played Module 2, you'd know that GWFs will do even better and it's possible that they will outdps CWs or at least do just as well.
So only dumb groups exclude GWFs from gameplay, groups that never met GWFs that are able to play the class properly.
and 2nd, the topic title is misleading, (good) GWFs are awesome to have EVERYWHERE in this game: PvP, MC, CN, T2s... everywhere having a GWF is almost always better than having a GF or a TR.
And if you played Module 2, you'd know that GWFs will do even better and it's possible that they will outdps CWs or at least do just as well.
So only dumb groups exclude GWFs from gameplay, groups that never met GWFs that are able to play the class properly.
Honest question: have you seen a GWF that could do what the TR normally does in, say, the final boss in Spellplague? Because there I think the fight demands a TR over a GWF. But maybe I just haven't seen it enough to know.
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nwnghostMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2013
My destroyer GWF does that regularly.
Nevertheless, it just seems that there is a lot of hate for GWFs from some players. When you get a group via random queue (GG dungeons), people will outright kick you for being a GWF, regardless of your GS.
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Honest question: have you seen a GWF that could do what the TR normally does in, say, the final boss in Spellplague? Because there I think the fight demands a TR over a GWF. But maybe I just haven't seen it enough to know.
First, a TR is not even necessary... at all. For some reason, me&friends had to do SP over and over again until our eyes bled to get chars geared. I cannot count the times when I "tanked" the boss as a CW because it just happens we have very good single target as well, also our teleports and high DPS allow us to "tank" bosses such as in SP and even Draco, if the other CWs take adds of you in time. However our SP strategy is quite a bit different, i.e. we AoE adds near boss and kite a bit only when they spawn and they are many.
So yes, I played with GWFs in SP and they do an awesome job from start to finish. GWF is a very good class if played by a decent player and it's a pleasure to have them with you in all dungeons.
People that feel they lack at GWF play should go to their forums and ask for advice. I'm sure many experienced GWFs will like to help their fellows
I play MC and CN with my sent GWF all the time. Np getting a group and I rarely if every drop unless I'm the last man standing and get overwhelmed by boss adds
The reason is, an exp'd CW (even with not so high gear score) has better control and often better dps than glass-cannon GWF builds.
As for tanky builds, I see them regularily going with me to the MC. It's just noone wants a gwf that will die in a second...
I see pve speced Gwfs in experienced players hand during CN/MC runs which can be very comparable to my CWs damage.
Gwf requires the singus to his head and doing devastating aoe attacks...
Cw+Gwf combo can be a killer there.
Typical Gwf player bringing their pvp speced Gwf to dungeons and start QQing because they are nowhere near to cws/trs...
As for the matter at hand I would totally bring experienced Gwf to MC run. They kill or disrupt Valindra very fast.
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beastiegboysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited November 2013
Unfortunatly there is no room for gwf in dd party and no matter how good gwf is. GWF is a king of second place. So why take someone who is always second. When gwf is taken to dd party, it's because people are kind and I really appreciate it. But there is no hope to make gwf better so he might be needed in dd. I'm playing gwf and it's pretty much fun and I'll still do.
Greetings,
Twisted Transistor
Yep my gwf got included in a CN group and once at Dracolich it became clear that the group would have won the fight with basically any other class instead of me. With a second TR the boss would have got permastealth killed while other ppl waiting at campfire. With a second CW the adds would have been kept away, or with a second GF they would have been kited.
Yep my gwf got included in a CN group and once at Dracolich it became clear that the group would have won the fight with basically any other class instead of me. With a second TR the boss would have got permastealth killed while other ppl waiting at campfire. With a second CW the adds would have been kept away, or with a second GF they would have been kited.
draco can see through stealth
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Unfortunatly there is no room for gwf in dd party and no matter how good gwf is. GWF is a king of second place. So why take someone who is always second. When gwf is taken to dd party, it's because people are kind and I really appreciate it. But there is no hope to make gwf better so he might be needed in dd. I'm playing gwf and it's pretty much fun and I'll still do.
Greetings,
Twisted Transistor
Falsex100. If you're a good GWF, there's always place for you in ALL the PvE this game has to offer. Even PvP specced GWFs are extremely useful in CN, running just as good as a TR and bringing huge pulls to the CWs to AoE. But you have to understand your role, and people around you should understand it as well and not have unrealistic demands such as outdps or outcc the CW. You're however the guy that can take red zones and go awesomely red themselves, roar adds into a stun when necessary for CWs to take them out and I could go on and on.
No. Good GWFs are just good, and players that ignore them for other classes are morons.
I can work all MC and CN bosses np with my GWF. CN Draco is just more time consuming as GWF if most of the party wipes compared to CW. Still certainly doable if you control your placement no more adds come after the first group. Valindra is easier still with GWF as long as she doesn't get a portal up the boss fight is cake for a GWF like mine (Sent spec, heavy defense and regen)
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
edited November 2013
From my experience MC is one of the easiest dungeons to get parties as a GWF.. The first month of module 1 I would have done maybe 70 runs in MC..until my offhand dropped.. Now I won't step in that place due to the lack of profitability.. I had success running MC in 2*gwf and 3*gwf parties.. If they know what to do.. It's easy AF!
Now lets talk to CN. This is alot harder to get groups as a GWF and most find it almost impossible.. My advice here is you need to learn the dungeon and learn it well! Don't give up.. Go into the dungeon with your friends and see what u can learn even if you don't finish it.. Now 3* CW and 1* DC is pretty much set in stone for CN parties.. So that leaves one spot..that spot can be taken by a good GWF.. And it can be done very very well. And here is where I get CN parties. Once you manage to prove yourself and break into some groups.. It is easy to get CN groups after that.. In the last month I have run CN around 80 times.. And get asked to run CN daily now..
Remember don't give up!!
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pers3phoneBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Now lets talk to CN. This is alot harder to get groups as a GWF and most find it almost impossible.. My advice here is you need to learn the dungeon and learn it well! Don't give up.. Go into the dungeon with your friends and see what u can learn even if you don't finish it.. Now 3* CW and 1* DC is pretty much set in stone for CN parties.. So that leaves one spot..that spot can be taken by a good GWF.. And it can be done very very well. And here is where I get CN parties. Once you manage to prove yourself and break into some groups.. It is easy to get CN groups after that.. In the last month I have run CN around 80 times.. And get asked to run CN daily now..
Remember don't give up!!
Just as a related sidenote...
I did CN earlier today with a party of GWF/GF/DC/2xCW. I was a bit reluctant I admit, but I basically promised the GF and DC whom I befriended I will take them in CN. Never PvEed with either of them before, DC was the first time ever in CN. GWF was skilled and did his job 100%.
The result?
We one-shot Draco, with just 2 CWs, and I had HUGE rubberbanding issues, my char was dragged around like a ragdoll all over the place periodically. It was a bit messy with 2 guys seeing the fight the first time, GF died, I died as well to hands once but was ressurected and we killed the dragon quite easily in the end.
Conclusion:
You can do these dungeons in suboptimal configurations quite easily. If you can put up with a 1 hour run instead of 30 mins AoE fiesta, why not, make some people happy.
As for the "runner" role, it is perfectly filled by either TR or GWF. There's no reason to discriminate at all. As for GF, I've played with players able to run the first run, do the required jumps before 3rd boss, but GFs need clearing and running together before Draco, never saw one doing alone - but who cares in the end. They're doing almost as fine as TRs and GWFs.
Again: if groups refuse you for a CN run because you're a GWF, you are not at fault at all, they are ignorants and don't understand your class. In the end some GWF will prove them wrong and their opinion will change.
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beastiegboysMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited November 2013
I know my role in a party and I know what I should do on specific dd. The people who takes gwf on dd runs are the people from guild but whenever I try to simple queue any dd even if everyone accepted and they see that gwf is in a party they simply kicking or quiting because they wanna another cw etc. The problem is that a lot of players are prefering cws because they always playing in that "party style" - without gwf. Excuse me for my English. I'm not blaming them, but It's just sad that gwfs are just ignored. That's my opinion.
PS. Thanks for reply
Greetings and good luck
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pandapaulMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 424Bounty Hunter
I did CN earlier today with a party of GWF/GF/DC/2xCW. I was a bit reluctant I admit, but I basically promised the GF and DC whom I befriended I will take them in CN. Never PvEed with either of them before, DC was the first time ever in CN. GWF was skilled and did his job 100%.
The result?
We one-shot Draco, with just 2 CWs, and I had HUGE rubberbanding issues, my char was dragged around like a ragdoll all over the place periodically. It was a bit messy with 2 guys seeing the fight the first time, GF died, I died as well to hands once but was ressurected and we killed the dragon quite easily in the end.
Conclusion:
You can do these dungeons in suboptimal configurations quite easily. If you can put up with a 1 hour run instead of 30 mins AoE fiesta, why not, make some people happy.
As for the "runner" role, it is perfectly filled by either TR or GWF. There's no reason to discriminate at all. As for GF, I've played with players able to run the first run, do the required jumps before 3rd boss, but GFs need clearing and running together before Draco, never saw one doing alone - but who cares in the end. They're doing almost as fine as TRs and GWFs.
Again: if groups refuse you for a CN run because you're a GWF, you are not at fault at all, they are ignorants and don't understand your class. In the end some GWF will prove them wrong and their opinion will change.
It's good to see some other group comps around the place.. Pretty much any party can do a CN with 2 CWs as long as they know what they are doing.. I did a 4 man last week with 2 CWs 1 GWF and 1 DC.. Draco wasn't easy but we did it..
I'm going to do a CN GWF guide when I get some time.. Might help some ppl out
I would bring a good GWF over a TR to CN any day of the week. Mostly because they do AoE damage and contribute with killing trash/bosses very fast since you group up everything anyways
Comments
the issue is to have both gwf and gf's, since they are supposedly filling the same role CLOSE COMBAT TANKS, while TR is CLOSE COMBAT DPS.
clerics, healing as always, and Cw's Ranged dps AS IN EVERY MMO out there (and for good reasons, people wanting to play mage type classes does it 99% of the time for the effects,feel and dmg numbers.. even in D&D (not familier with 4rd) the wizard/sorc got huge dmg potential in comparison to other classes you might play)
and 2nd, the topic title is misleading, (good) GWFs are awesome to have EVERYWHERE in this game: PvP, MC, CN, T2s... everywhere having a GWF is almost always better than having a GF or a TR.
And if you played Module 2, you'd know that GWFs will do even better and it's possible that they will outdps CWs or at least do just as well.
So only dumb groups exclude GWFs from gameplay, groups that never met GWFs that are able to play the class properly.
Honest question: have you seen a GWF that could do what the TR normally does in, say, the final boss in Spellplague? Because there I think the fight demands a TR over a GWF. But maybe I just haven't seen it enough to know.
Nevertheless, it just seems that there is a lot of hate for GWFs from some players. When you get a group via random queue (GG dungeons), people will outright kick you for being a GWF, regardless of your GS.
First, a TR is not even necessary... at all. For some reason, me&friends had to do SP over and over again until our eyes bled to get chars geared. I cannot count the times when I "tanked" the boss as a CW because it just happens we have very good single target as well, also our teleports and high DPS allow us to "tank" bosses such as in SP and even Draco, if the other CWs take adds of you in time. However our SP strategy is quite a bit different, i.e. we AoE adds near boss and kite a bit only when they spawn and they are many.
So yes, I played with GWFs in SP and they do an awesome job from start to finish. GWF is a very good class if played by a decent player and it's a pleasure to have them with you in all dungeons.
People that feel they lack at GWF play should go to their forums and ask for advice. I'm sure many experienced GWFs will like to help their fellows
As for tanky builds, I see them regularily going with me to the MC. It's just noone wants a gwf that will die in a second...
WTB Class Reroll please
Gwf requires the singus to his head and doing devastating aoe attacks...
Cw+Gwf combo can be a killer there.
Typical Gwf player bringing their pvp speced Gwf to dungeons and start QQing because they are nowhere near to cws/trs...
As for the matter at hand I would totally bring experienced Gwf to MC run. They kill or disrupt Valindra very fast.
Greetings,
Twisted Transistor
draco can see through stealth
Falsex100. If you're a good GWF, there's always place for you in ALL the PvE this game has to offer. Even PvP specced GWFs are extremely useful in CN, running just as good as a TR and bringing huge pulls to the CWs to AoE. But you have to understand your role, and people around you should understand it as well and not have unrealistic demands such as outdps or outcc the CW. You're however the guy that can take red zones and go awesomely red themselves, roar adds into a stun when necessary for CWs to take them out and I could go on and on.
No. Good GWFs are just good, and players that ignore them for other classes are morons.
This is my experience with GWF too , a well played one can smack her down very fast no problem.
Now lets talk to CN. This is alot harder to get groups as a GWF and most find it almost impossible.. My advice here is you need to learn the dungeon and learn it well! Don't give up.. Go into the dungeon with your friends and see what u can learn even if you don't finish it.. Now 3* CW and 1* DC is pretty much set in stone for CN parties.. So that leaves one spot..that spot can be taken by a good GWF.. And it can be done very very well. And here is where I get CN parties. Once you manage to prove yourself and break into some groups.. It is easy to get CN groups after that.. In the last month I have run CN around 80 times.. And get asked to run CN daily now..
Remember don't give up!!
Just as a related sidenote...
I did CN earlier today with a party of GWF/GF/DC/2xCW. I was a bit reluctant I admit, but I basically promised the GF and DC whom I befriended I will take them in CN. Never PvEed with either of them before, DC was the first time ever in CN. GWF was skilled and did his job 100%.
The result?
We one-shot Draco, with just 2 CWs, and I had HUGE rubberbanding issues, my char was dragged around like a ragdoll all over the place periodically. It was a bit messy with 2 guys seeing the fight the first time, GF died, I died as well to hands once but was ressurected and we killed the dragon quite easily in the end.
Conclusion:
You can do these dungeons in suboptimal configurations quite easily. If you can put up with a 1 hour run instead of 30 mins AoE fiesta, why not, make some people happy.
As for the "runner" role, it is perfectly filled by either TR or GWF. There's no reason to discriminate at all. As for GF, I've played with players able to run the first run, do the required jumps before 3rd boss, but GFs need clearing and running together before Draco, never saw one doing alone - but who cares in the end. They're doing almost as fine as TRs and GWFs.
Again: if groups refuse you for a CN run because you're a GWF, you are not at fault at all, they are ignorants and don't understand your class. In the end some GWF will prove them wrong and their opinion will change.
PS. Thanks for reply
Greetings and good luck
It's good to see some other group comps around the place.. Pretty much any party can do a CN with 2 CWs as long as they know what they are doing.. I did a 4 man last week with 2 CWs 1 GWF and 1 DC.. Draco wasn't easy but we did it..
I'm going to do a CN GWF guide when I get some time.. Might help some ppl out