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throughwall
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 34
So, youre banning people for exploiting dungeons, but 9/10 dungeons are being exploited and the 10th one is not completed fully with killing the last boss.. Why dont you fix these things to avoid exploiting? What should I do when at 3rd boss they want to exploit it for example? spent hour and some minutes just to leave?
Sunshine - Trickster Rogue
Gladiator - Control Wizard
Death - Great Weapon Fighter
High Priestess - Devoted Cleric
Gladiator - Control Wizard
Death - Great Weapon Fighter
High Priestess - Devoted Cleric
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. . . . . Please report Exploits and Exploiters the proper way. Doing so on the forums is against the Rules of Conduct and will not only lead to Forum Banning but will also lead to Account Banishment from PWE Games upon one's Accounts. Detailing and Naming Exploits/Exploiters is considered just as bad as Exploiting in itself. The forums are not the place for this. We have detailed how to report such behavior, there is no reason to ignore this and break the Rules of Conduct and Terms of Service just because someone else is.
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They do not exploit. They do not tolerate it.
I highly encourage everyone that wants to run without exploits to join them. You don't have to leave your guild to be able to draw on the people from the custom channels. They run both T1 and T2 DD.
You have choices, they had maybe a handful of us a few weeks ago, now its over 200 and growing. When I pug now I do report the exploiters because I know I have a choice to exploit and risk a ban, or to do the DD legit. I'll take doing them legit over the ban/exploit.
If the complaint and excuse on why the DD get exploited is that it takes too long, the trash is too much etc - they need to see those metrics for the bosses and how often they're being downed with current mechanics before they can really fix it. 'Because it's there and I can' isnt a good reason for exploiting, neither is 'its too hard'.
Very much this! I'd also like to point out that while the fix to any given exploit may seem straight-forward, there may be more involved in getting an actual fix to live. The devs have been addressing the exploits, and hopefully we'll see the NW_Legit_Community channel continue to grow and like-minded people coming together for a better play experience.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Thanks for this
Actually just logged on and tried it, and got a response from a few people in the channel not during DD time so I'll log on for the next DD session and see if I can get a legit group out of it
The sad thing is instead of voicing your anger that nothing has been fixed yet. YOu all make a channel for people whom dont want to exploit. There is something majorly wrong with this game if you need a special channel to get people to not exloit the exploits. Just close all your eyes and pretend all the exploits are fixed and nothing will ever get fixed. If there is no pressure for them to fix anything then nothing will get done.
LOL people like you guys that close your eyes and pretend nothing is wrong make this game worse not better.
We have already recently seen the grym exploits fixed. So they really are working to fix exploits and have already heard our opinions. I am sure they have voiced their opinions on it in the past too. In the time between, I would prefer to earn my gear the proper way, and not take the unnecessary risk of getting banned for being lazy. I'm not sure how earning your way in the game and not exploiting is considered distasteful to you while they fix the issues, but just don't complain if someday you get reported and banned by someone who didn't want to join in exploiting. Yeah, it probably wont happen, but what is the point in taking the risk, especially when the game can be more enjoyable, challenging, and rewarding for simply playing it the right way? To each their own.
There is only so much we as players can do to pressure the devs to fix these holes. In the meantime, instead of dwelling on what's wrong with the game, I'd rather use a work-around, (like NW_Legit_Community), so I can continue to play in a manner I find enjoyable...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Why get mad? Exploits are being fixed, maybe not as fast as people would like but they are getting fixed, and people aren't putting their heads into the sand, in fact I'm willing to bet that the necessity of a chat channel for non-exploit runs has them more concerned than the thousands of threads complaining about the exploits.
As for the speed issue, ever hear this saying -
"Simple solutions cause big problems."
Think about it, we've seen what happens when they don't push thoroughly tested exploit solutions live after all.
Still, you can make it clear. If you play a DC or a tank angry kids willing to rush through the dungeon should suck it up and deal with it. Many people don't enjoy exploiting that much, they're just following the crowds. IMO, only 10% of the playerbase is really a problem. That's just a guess but i'm quite optimistic, as soon as they will start to mass-ban the 90% will stop doing dirty stuff in game.
I myself report exploiters whenever i can. It makes the inner child happy and it helps me to deal with the fact that some dungeons just end with no loot because someone tried to be silly. I know some of the very active people in /lfg chat have been banned and never showed up again after i've done nice report with quotes and stuff. Man if only you knew how happy i was when i got it. Might not be because of me but i'm pretty sure i've caused several bans.
So, yes, exploiters can be reported and can get banned, as long as you provide proofs. They can't even hide it, when they say "you know the shortcut" or just explain the exploit in party chat to make sure you're doing it right, it's likely they get a nice and well deserved ban if you send this to a GM.
It'll take time, and yes I get that people are (and actually should) be looking for exploits - because if the legit community never looks for and finds them they will never get patched out. That said, doing the exploits repeatedly and abusing them to beat a boss rather than testing a theory and reporting it, then moving on is not acceptable.
Threads like this one do two things, one, it lets us draw more of the legit community into the channel. There SHOULD be alarms going off at PWE that the community has had to take this measure.
Two, it lets us tell people hey, we are reporting things we see, if you glitch in a pug and we see you, its your ***.
Third, it lets us voice just how much we hate the exploits so both players and devs know. Bioshrike's signature not only directs people to the legit channel - but every time one of the mods and the like sees it it should remind them that we want the bugs fixed, it's a problem, it is taking people away from the game.
I was on one of the twitch livestreams today and they commented that the exploits and being tired of them is the thing that drove him out of the game.
There is something WRONG when you have players like that that are getting attention from other games and have the potential to draw in more players for it are telling people that they quit because the exploit groups are so common.
Can't wait to see all these problem fixed so people will have to learn to play and not rely on cheats.
Ok lets get this straight. I have a co-worker hes a debugger for whatever program you want. He freelances debugging and programming hes worked on pc games, console games and major energy corps. He is a wizard at programming. He isnt the best in the world what have you but he knows what its like to debug or fix exploits for games. Hes in a group pool of programmers they get contracts urgent ones that need to be fixed asap. Its funny in a way they get a text message blah blah needs to get fix contract 500- 2000 on complete. Some take 5mins some take few days. The more urgent the more money. He laughs at the rate of this games exploits are getting fixed. Like that one with the pillers huge and with some stupid texture map 10 feet whatever it was.
Will I get banned if I'm in grp which exploits, but I don't exploit?
Gladiator - Control Wizard
Death - Great Weapon Fighter
High Priestess - Devoted Cleric
Yep because they will report you as well.
Gladiator - Control Wizard
Death - Great Weapon Fighter
High Priestess - Devoted Cleric
Upon accepting a team invite, but before actually entering the instance, let it be known that you don't exploit or cheat. If the team accepts that and runs the dungeons legitimately, great! If they still make use of exploits or glitches, after you've explicitly stated that you are against them, then leave the dungeon and cut your loses. When someone gets reported, there are details of what transpired in the form of logs. They can easily see that you left the team early on, and you should be alright. If you decide to go ahead w/ using the exploits and such, then you may be reported and it's possible you could get banned. As long as you genuinely didn't do anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Simple 5 minutes work for your average 3dsmax user (geometry measures) (been there done that), as I said to a friend the other day when he was talking about it... I could have all the map files for the collision for each dungeon and probably fix every known exploit and whole within a few hours maximum.
Coding issues could derive a longer process but the essential 3d geometry is the very easy fix for us
Obviously making more companions and the other list of non useful things are more on there Zen priority list
Sure, there are also exploiters and cheaters in PvP. However, not like in PvE where every single move in a dungeon is an exploit.
newbie rogue extraordinaire
Anyhow, I came to say, seriously they banning people now for dungeon exploits? Good thing I no longer have time? The thing is I can finish most dungeons without exploiting if the rest of the team like myself are very good players, but I have been kicked for choosing not to exploit which is why I simply go with the flow.
Am I an exploiter by nature? H-No, when I had a lot of time and before Neverwinter, I was top 100 in CoD MW 3, top 1000 in the others but could not play as much for the laters. Exploiters were aim bot users etc, I didn't use those things or felt like I needed to use exploits. However, in Neverwinter early on I needed to use exploits to get a party! Some of that is changing with this new legit community channel etc, but only time will tell I guess...
For real, they banning people for dungeon exploits? ...Good thing iergo
iirc top 200 magic dotp 2013, don't have time to play 2014 dotp unfortunately, plus i only play sealed, gtg.
I was in a Karru group where our TR spent about 2 hours teaching the cleric how to exploit. The entire run took longer than a legit run would have taken. That was hours of the party's time wasted because our TR refused to actually do the fights and the others went along with it.
When I enter a pug, I tell them straight up I want a legit run. I do not want to exploit. Now, if following this the questions are things like 'do you know the run?/the shortcut' and them trying to teach it to people I will report the person that is trying to teach the exploit. At that point they've taken action to do the exploit/indicated they're willing to.
I'd much rather the person(s) that want to exploit leave, or we do it legit. If you leave without a word there's nothing that can be said or done other than people wondering why.
@Throughwall I do legit runs, I might wait a moment to see if the party is really going to go through with it, but I only report the instigator/those that automatically start to do the exploits. It's a 50/50 chance I might not even do the report and just leave in irritated disgust as well. It really depends on my mood.
Generally, I don't pug from the finder anymore (many reasons for this) - I just fill pt from guild and the legit channel. If you're somehow getting reported by me its because you're in one of those two and still didn't take the hint from me and from simply being recruited from the legit only channel that I wouldn't tolerate exploiting. If you're exploiting after getting pulled from one of those two, you deserve any ban you pull for the exploit.
Some of this with exploits is really like going through an obvious speed trap - the cops have been there for months, they've pulled you over and given you warnings(the TOS etc) and you've ignored it, now they're going from warnings to tickets(bans). The signs are there, the devs made their piece clear on exploiting.
Most of the companions were done prior to game's release. Pics of the owlbear mount have been circulating for a while now and right up until this last box release were not taken seriously. I'm fairly sure there are others that're simple reskins that took only 15min or so for an artist to redo the textures/opacity maps. They definitely need to do something more about the exploits than they have been. Reporting is just one more way for the community to keep telling the devs that there is a problem.
My co worker says 3d geometry can be hard to fix some times depending on the engine the game uses. But the coding part is not hard if you actually know what your doing, and put the effort into it. The exploits for this game have gone on a really long time.
If cryptic needs a freelancer he would be into getting things fixed for the right price. Hes bonded also. He works on much larger companies programs we are talking about billion dollar compainies.
To quote Ghandi: "Be the change that you wish to see in the world."
You don't have to exploit only because your team exploits. You can always say "No exploits" and see how people react or leave a match if they continue to exploit. I did that yesterday, too, after it was just too much exploiting and wiping to trash mobs only to reset them. I am sick of people using the queue system to force 4 other players to exploit dungeons. But you are right in one point: If you search for non-exploiting parties in LFG you most likely won't get lots of invites. This game favors so much exploiting behaviours that hardly anyone wants to play the dungeons normally.
But we are running into problems. CN and ToS being the big ones. We have tried CN alot with different groups and different strats to no avail. And we are very well geared. To the point that no one needs a drop from CN at all. We just rying to down draco. And here is what gets me the most. The guild has decided that to have any Shot of brining down Draco they cannot bring Fighters either GF or GWF and as a GF player I hate this. I will never legitly kill draco.
The current stategies to try are now 2 DC, 2 CW, 1 TR or 3 CW, DC, TR. For the legit kill. And this is why I keep asking for fighter buffs in the Barracks. Even using the CW tactic that has earned CW a bit of flame for being OP cannot work. And it is also why I keep defending the CW as they do not need to be nerfed they work fine and are not OP for the content. We need the fighters to work better to protect the CW's.
Which brings me to the next point ToS. Now ToS is beatable with a good group. The problem we run into is that we always bring 2 or 3 members that need a t2 body for ToS. They are not geared enough to handle that boss. Now Even with me as super GF and our super CW coming along as we both top the damage charts over the other CW, TR. We dont have enough damage to deal with the boss and the adds. And I cannot protect the super CW from the adds. There are too many of them and with webs I just cannot move and get threat. Even Knights valor does not save the CW and sometimes gets us both killed.
We have tried it with a GWF sentinal, top tier GWF player with all the tank moves and DPS gear. He cannot protect the CW's. If the GWF could tank what a GF cannot then they might be more useful in a dungeon.
So ToS usually requires 2 top tier CW's (And yes I mean formorian fabled weapons full T2 set rank 7 or higher enchants) to beat it as they are the only ones that can protect each form the adds and burn them down fast enough meaning the under geared CW's of the guild can't gear up.
All Dungeons should be able to be beat by a group in the 10-11k GS range. Players that are there to gear up and not bring new players through.
A good DC can keep the whole group alive in this fight for a very long time if people stay next to him (what they often don't do) and use their area damage abilities as well. With his Astral Shield, Bastion of Health and Sunburst he has 3 area protection abilities ready (and the knockback from Sunburst helps in keeping adds under control). Also Divine Armor and Hallowed Ground (when you have the healing feat on it) helps to protect. If people stay around him (next to boss) and kill the adds you can basically fight her 30 minutes. The real problem there is not staying alive, but being fast in killing the spiders that heal her AND deal damage to her AND take on the adds. I've never beaten her legit to be honest but had some fights were we actually have beaten her the way I describe until we gave up after 20-25 minutes. The amount she is healing up should be reduced or the mechanic should be changed how she heals up.
Check out Future (also check out the NW_Legit_Community chat channel).
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
The fastest group for this fight includes a GWF. With a full DPS GWF, all adds can be interrupted while healing and the boss dies mega fast.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting