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Trickster Rogue PvE Executioner Build.
esteena
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1
Hello, my name is Xaldin@esteena from Dragon shard (previously) and i have realized that so many TRs got the wrong idea about how to build their TRs. So i thought to share my experience since open beta, about how to be a competitive TR in PvE content.
Simply because of impossible to catch, Skillful infiltrator and invisible infiltrator which are the core of your rotations and improve your DPS, Survivability and utility by alot.
Link to my build: http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p9z:27d2ww:15yd1o,13j3k3k:100000:150000:1z05z1&h=1&p=min
Note: I'm a human, i have extra 3 heroic feats so don't get confused.
Also i have 2 points in imporved cunning sneak but i'm not sure why the calculator isn't updating it.
Initial Ability score and Race selection
In my honest opinion, i think Human&Half orc are the best races for PvE TR.
Half Orc racial traits
+2 Dexterity
+2 Constitution or +2 Strength
Furious Assault: Your Critical Hits do an additional 5% damage.
Swift Charge: You gain a 10% bonus to Runspeed for 3 seconds when you enter combat. This effect can only occur once every 20 seconds.
Human racial traits
+2 to any Ability Score
Versatile Defense: Increase your Defense by 3%.
Heroic Effort: You gain an additional Heroic Feat point at levels 10, 15, and 20. These three extra feat points cannot be used on the paragon feat table.
You may choose what you prefer, the human seems to be tankier but the orc is more into damage.
Best stat roll in my opinion is: 16 STR 16 DEX 12 CHA. With all level up points into STR and DEX.
Feats
*Updated* 4/12/2013 Action advantage: 0/5: Me and Stox had a discussion , and he tested out the AP % gain from having 5 points in that feat and he realized that you get around 1% AP gain only from it. That's because it seems that it is stacking in multiplicative way ( 10% out of AP %) instead of additive way ( 10%+ current AP %). Thanks again Stox for your tests
.
So you guys can go ahead and add the points wherever you feel like, for me i suggest something like this:
So i suggest that if anyone running human PvE TR, to run something like that for the heroic feats:
For humans:
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13j3k3k:60000:60000:60000&h=1
For non-humans:
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13j3k2i:60000:60000:60000&h=0
Weapon mastery: 3/3: More crit, more DPS.
*Updated* 4/12/2013 Toughness: 3/3. More HP is always good and good for surviveability.
Cunning ambusher: 3/3: This feat is very useful, since you are dealing extra damage everytime you exit stealth. Very good with lashing blade after a stealthed Duelist flurry rotation.
Endless Assault: 3/3: More damage for your encounters, why not?
Disciple of strength: 3/3
Scoundrel Training: 3/3 (2/3): Like i said, over 50% of the time you are in combat advantage aka targets aren't targeting you. It is one of the best heroic feats we have.
Paragon path: Executioner
Please note that this path amazingly increase your out put damage if you perform your attacks while you are in stealth.So make sure you activate stealth before you use Duelist Flurry.
Underhanded tactics (Scoundrel Paragon): 5/5: Since you are in CA more than 50% of the time, this feat is amazing for your DPS.
Dazzling Blades: 5/5: Less Cool downs, why not?
Devastating Shroud: 5/5: You can either choose than or Thrill of the Kill. Since you wont be using Shocking Execution for PvE at all. Thrill of the Kill is more useful in that case.But it is up to you.
Brutal Backstab: 5/5: This is the core of your DPS. since you are stealthed majority of the time, it is the perfect feat for the stealthed-Duelist flurry combo.
Critical TeamWork: 5/5: More crit.
Deadly Momentum: 5/5: More severity= more DPS.
Overrun critical: 1/1:Same as above.
Powers:
Max the following:
Cloud of Steel.: Good for ranging stuck mobs or ones that are far from your reach. but you wont be using it that much.
Sly Flourish.: good for doing sharandar dailies, since mobs there are too weak for Duelist Flurry.
Dazing Strike.:Nice damage, can hit 3 targets + and daze them.
Blood Bath:Points has to go somewhere.
Sneak Attack.:More speed while stealthed.
Deft Strike.: I only added 3 points there, just to unlock more powers. But you wont really be using that in PvE.
Lashing Blade.: Your highest damage dealing encounter.
Lurker Assault.: Your Damage% steroids in boss fights.
Whirlwind of Blades.: That's what you will be using while clearing trash mobs during dungeons, it hits alot of targets, it gives you a power boost for your next attacks and it deals quite alot of damage.
Bait and Switch.: Very good at CN last boss fight. It will give you huge AP and enough stealth and will hold the aggro off you when you are swarmed with adds.
Duelist Flurry. ( your main At-will and your DPS core)
Blitz.: Good AoE encounter for trash clearing.
Tactics.: Can be used at some boss fights. But i usually use Invisible Infiltrator for the instant stealth bar i gain everytime i use a daily. Really depends on your play style
Impossible to Catch.: The reason why everyone hates TRs ^^. Immunity to CC and damage(if used from stealth). However, some dragon attacks can through its CC immunity.
Impact shot.: You wont be using it in PvE at all, but points has to go somewhere..
Skillful Infiltrator.: Have this slotted all the time, more speed and crit is the main reason why it is good.
Wicked Reminder. 25% damage boost. Very good at boss fights, but it doesn't stack with other WRs ( max 5 stacks no matter how many WRs are used). But it has a relatively low up time, so 2 TRs using it will keep the stacks uptime much longer.
Smoke bomb.: I have this slotted all the time, eventhough you don't really need it if you have good CWs in your party. But caution is good.
Invisible infiltrator.: A life saver and a not bad damage boost, i get full stealth bar to hide myself everytime i hit a daily. Good if you are taking damage that prevents you from regenerating stealth.
Shadow Strike.: Put 3 points or 1 point, depends if you want to max Shocking Execution or not. It is merely a stealth re-filler encounter.
Boons
Sharandar Boons
Dark Fey Warden: You gain 250 Defense, which is obviously better than going for 250 power...25 power = 1 damage so 250 is 10 extra damage...yeah..
Fey Elusiveness: You gain 250 Deflect. Since you have way too much crit already, adding more crit wont benefit you that much ( less than 1%) because of diminishing returns while 250 deflect is translated into 1.6% deflect chance which is better stat wise.
Elven Haste: You now gain Action Points 2% faster. Which is a no brainer for PvE.
Elven Ferocity: When striking a foe you have a chance to deal 400 Arcane damage with a 1 min cool down.The 400 arcane damage can be increased by your feats/dailies nothing fancy, but definitely better than 400 healing every time you are hit with 1 m cool down.
Elven Resolve: Your Stamina or Guard Meter regenerate 10% faster in Combat. More dodges, so why not?
Dread Ring Boons
Reliquary Keeper's Strength: 125 Power, 125 Movement.
Evoker's Thrist: You gain 250 Life steal. Life steal os much better for use due to our rate of fire and the amount of damage we deal on single target. We didn't go for regeneration because we don't have the high HP pool that supports it.
Forbidden Piercing: You gain 250 Armor penetration. Take that boon even if your armor pen is capped and then you can replace 2x rank 7 dark enchants with 2x Radiant on your offense slots.
Shadowtouch: When dealing damage you have a chance to deal 1000 Necrotic damage over a few seconds. After this effect ends the target receives 25% less healing from spells for 10 seconds.
Rampaging Madness: When you deal damage you gain a stack of "Madness". When you reach 50 stacks of "Madness" you gain 600 Power, 300 Life Steal, and 300 Regeneration. 10 seconds after gaining this bonus your stacks are reset. You may only gain one stack of "Madness" per second.
Gearing and Stat distribution
Note: I don't own that calculator and i didn't make it either, full credit for the person who made it available for everyone.
Make sure you focus on slotting armor penetration in all your offense slots, power stat doesn't really significantly increase your damage out put, so make sure you put as much as armor penetration as possible until you reach 2.5k which is the amount needed to ignore the damage resistance of the strongest type of monsters . Note that armor penetration isn't a debuff, it applies before any debuffs calculations and it doesn't stack to negative values.
For example: If you have 24% resistance ignored, and the target has 15% damage resistance, your armor pen will only reduce to 0% not to -9%.
In your defense slots that's totally up to you.
About your utility, add dark enchantments for more movement speed.
Weapon Enchantment:
Vorpal is the best one for TR, since your feats gives you alot of critical severity already, so why not more?
Armor enchantment
Use BarkShield, it negates a significant amount of damage and is currently better than soulforged.
*Updated* 4/1/2014 Soulforged is currently better after the rework. Because you get 2 revives instead of 1.
Companion
Stone or Cat. Augment companions are the best companion, since they can give you up to 3k+ more stats.
On your runes put 3x rank 7 Eldtrich Runes tones. And on your item slots focus on as much as recovery as possible. You don't need to slot any critical since you will have alot already.
Special thanks to ximae for bringing my attention to this point.
Ximae and me realized that our swash 4/4 buff is up almost all the time, so you don't really need to slot so much recovery on the stone. The swash buff is around 1k recovery, so keep your base recovery on your character sheet @ 1,800~1,900 so you don't bypass the soft recovery cap.
I suggest using :
Ancient Necromancer's Necklace of Undeath for the necklace slot and Ancient Berserker's Ring of Cleaving for the ring slot. They give nice lifesteal which is one of the best defensive stats you can have on your PvE setup. But you can add whatever you want, life steal is a personal preference, but you can slot anything else you prefer.
Just make sure your recovery on your character sheet @ 1,900 maximum and 24% armor pen. Here are Screen shots of my current stats unbuffed and buffed respectively.
WARNING: These stats are pre Module 2. This means that they have no dread ring boons on them nor any artifacts.
These are my current stats, as you can see, i have reduced my recovery by 1,000 on the stone since swash 4/4 bonus is up most of the time and i have added more power & life steal instead. That way we would have around 2.8k~2.9k recovery with the 4/4 swash bonus, which is about the right amount of soft-capped recovery we can have without being heavily affected by diminishing returns.
Play Style
While fighting normal mobs:
Use Blitz, Lashing blade and smoke bomb ( or dazing strike) as encounters, and Duelist Flurry as your At-Will.
As for dailies, use Whirlwind of blades and Lurker Assault.
Make sure you do your At-wills while you are in stealth, to proc your feats that increases your crit severity while in stealth.
For Boss Fights:
Use the same At-wills and dailies, but switch Blitz with Impossible to Catch.
Stealth + Impossible to catch gives you immunity to damage for around 5 seconds. So make sure you use Impossible to catch when your stealth duration is about to end, for maximum damage efficiency and survive ability.
Note: for some boss fights, like Karrundax and Spell plague Overseer, they have very low damage and slow dodgeable attacks so you wont need to slot immunity for them.
Also make sure you have Wicked Reminder slotted, It is a 25% damage boost for boss fights. Can't go wrong with it.
Shadow strike is also very good for refilling stealth at bosses, more stealth= more severity= more CA= more DPS.
Bait and Switch is also useful for bosses like dragons or Himinir. Because it can take aggro off you, and gives you a large margin of AP when it gets hit,
Use Lurker Assault only on boss fights, or when fighting a big mob, it is very good in these situations.
In normal situations, versus alot of mobs, stick with Whirlwind of Blades.
This build isn't viable for competitive PvP matches.
Master Infiltrator Paragon
Simply because of impossible to catch, Skillful infiltrator and invisible infiltrator which are the core of your rotations and improve your DPS, Survivability and utility by alot.
Link to my build: http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=p9z:27d2ww:15yd1o,13j3k3k:100000:150000:1z05z1&h=1&p=min
Note: I'm a human, i have extra 3 heroic feats so don't get confused.
Also i have 2 points in imporved cunning sneak but i'm not sure why the calculator isn't updating it.
Initial Ability score and Race selection
In my honest opinion, i think Human&Half orc are the best races for PvE TR.
Half Orc racial traits
+2 Dexterity
+2 Constitution or +2 Strength
Furious Assault: Your Critical Hits do an additional 5% damage.
Swift Charge: You gain a 10% bonus to Runspeed for 3 seconds when you enter combat. This effect can only occur once every 20 seconds.
Human racial traits
+2 to any Ability Score
Versatile Defense: Increase your Defense by 3%.
Heroic Effort: You gain an additional Heroic Feat point at levels 10, 15, and 20. These three extra feat points cannot be used on the paragon feat table.
You may choose what you prefer, the human seems to be tankier but the orc is more into damage.
Best stat roll in my opinion is: 16 STR 16 DEX 12 CHA. With all level up points into STR and DEX.
Feats
*Updated* 4/12/2013 Action advantage: 0/5: Me and Stox had a discussion , and he tested out the AP % gain from having 5 points in that feat and he realized that you get around 1% AP gain only from it. That's because it seems that it is stacking in multiplicative way ( 10% out of AP %) instead of additive way ( 10%+ current AP %). Thanks again Stox for your tests
.So you guys can go ahead and add the points wherever you feel like, for me i suggest something like this:
So i suggest that if anyone running human PvE TR, to run something like that for the heroic feats:
For humans:
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13j3k3k:60000:60000:60000&h=1
For non-humans:
http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=cn4:2hwcg:5m9s,13j3k2i:60000:60000:60000&h=0
Weapon mastery: 3/3: More crit, more DPS.
*Updated* 4/12/2013 Toughness: 3/3. More HP is always good and good for surviveability.
Cunning ambusher: 3/3: This feat is very useful, since you are dealing extra damage everytime you exit stealth. Very good with lashing blade after a stealthed Duelist flurry rotation.
Endless Assault: 3/3: More damage for your encounters, why not?
Disciple of strength: 3/3
Scoundrel Training: 3/3 (2/3): Like i said, over 50% of the time you are in combat advantage aka targets aren't targeting you. It is one of the best heroic feats we have.
Paragon path: Executioner
Please note that this path amazingly increase your out put damage if you perform your attacks while you are in stealth.So make sure you activate stealth before you use Duelist Flurry.
Underhanded tactics (Scoundrel Paragon): 5/5: Since you are in CA more than 50% of the time, this feat is amazing for your DPS.
Dazzling Blades: 5/5: Less Cool downs, why not?
Devastating Shroud: 5/5: You can either choose than or Thrill of the Kill. Since you wont be using Shocking Execution for PvE at all. Thrill of the Kill is more useful in that case.But it is up to you.
Brutal Backstab: 5/5: This is the core of your DPS. since you are stealthed majority of the time, it is the perfect feat for the stealthed-Duelist flurry combo.
Critical TeamWork: 5/5: More crit.
Deadly Momentum: 5/5: More severity= more DPS.
Overrun critical: 1/1:Same as above.
Powers:
Max the following:
Cloud of Steel.: Good for ranging stuck mobs or ones that are far from your reach. but you wont be using it that much.
Sly Flourish.: good for doing sharandar dailies, since mobs there are too weak for Duelist Flurry.
Dazing Strike.:Nice damage, can hit 3 targets + and daze them.
Blood Bath:Points has to go somewhere.
Sneak Attack.:More speed while stealthed.
Deft Strike.: I only added 3 points there, just to unlock more powers. But you wont really be using that in PvE.
Lashing Blade.: Your highest damage dealing encounter.
Lurker Assault.: Your Damage% steroids in boss fights.
Whirlwind of Blades.: That's what you will be using while clearing trash mobs during dungeons, it hits alot of targets, it gives you a power boost for your next attacks and it deals quite alot of damage.
Bait and Switch.: Very good at CN last boss fight. It will give you huge AP and enough stealth and will hold the aggro off you when you are swarmed with adds.
Duelist Flurry. ( your main At-will and your DPS core)
Blitz.: Good AoE encounter for trash clearing.
Tactics.: Can be used at some boss fights. But i usually use Invisible Infiltrator for the instant stealth bar i gain everytime i use a daily. Really depends on your play style
Impossible to Catch.: The reason why everyone hates TRs ^^. Immunity to CC and damage(if used from stealth). However, some dragon attacks can through its CC immunity.
Impact shot.: You wont be using it in PvE at all, but points has to go somewhere..
Skillful Infiltrator.: Have this slotted all the time, more speed and crit is the main reason why it is good.
Wicked Reminder. 25% damage boost. Very good at boss fights, but it doesn't stack with other WRs ( max 5 stacks no matter how many WRs are used). But it has a relatively low up time, so 2 TRs using it will keep the stacks uptime much longer.
Smoke bomb.: I have this slotted all the time, eventhough you don't really need it if you have good CWs in your party. But caution is good.
Invisible infiltrator.: A life saver and a not bad damage boost, i get full stealth bar to hide myself everytime i hit a daily. Good if you are taking damage that prevents you from regenerating stealth.
Shadow Strike.: Put 3 points or 1 point, depends if you want to max Shocking Execution or not. It is merely a stealth re-filler encounter.
Boons
Sharandar Boons
Dark Fey Warden: You gain 250 Defense, which is obviously better than going for 250 power...25 power = 1 damage so 250 is 10 extra damage...yeah..
Fey Elusiveness: You gain 250 Deflect. Since you have way too much crit already, adding more crit wont benefit you that much ( less than 1%) because of diminishing returns while 250 deflect is translated into 1.6% deflect chance which is better stat wise.
Elven Haste: You now gain Action Points 2% faster. Which is a no brainer for PvE.
Elven Ferocity: When striking a foe you have a chance to deal 400 Arcane damage with a 1 min cool down.The 400 arcane damage can be increased by your feats/dailies nothing fancy, but definitely better than 400 healing every time you are hit with 1 m cool down.
Elven Resolve: Your Stamina or Guard Meter regenerate 10% faster in Combat. More dodges, so why not?
Dread Ring Boons
Reliquary Keeper's Strength: 125 Power, 125 Movement.
Evoker's Thrist: You gain 250 Life steal. Life steal os much better for use due to our rate of fire and the amount of damage we deal on single target. We didn't go for regeneration because we don't have the high HP pool that supports it.
Forbidden Piercing: You gain 250 Armor penetration. Take that boon even if your armor pen is capped and then you can replace 2x rank 7 dark enchants with 2x Radiant on your offense slots.
Shadowtouch: When dealing damage you have a chance to deal 1000 Necrotic damage over a few seconds. After this effect ends the target receives 25% less healing from spells for 10 seconds.
Rampaging Madness: When you deal damage you gain a stack of "Madness". When you reach 50 stacks of "Madness" you gain 600 Power, 300 Life Steal, and 300 Regeneration. 10 seconds after gaining this bonus your stacks are reset. You may only gain one stack of "Madness" per second.
Gearing and Stat distribution
Make sure to check these useful graphs about different diminishing returns for different stats in NWO
https://www.desmos.com/calculator/3dqpvhuavj
Note: I don't own that calculator and i didn't make it either, full credit for the person who made it available for everyone.
Make sure you focus on slotting armor penetration in all your offense slots, power stat doesn't really significantly increase your damage out put, so make sure you put as much as armor penetration as possible until you reach 2.5k which is the amount needed to ignore the damage resistance of the strongest type of monsters . Note that armor penetration isn't a debuff, it applies before any debuffs calculations and it doesn't stack to negative values.
For example: If you have 24% resistance ignored, and the target has 15% damage resistance, your armor pen will only reduce to 0% not to -9%.
In your defense slots that's totally up to you.
About your utility, add dark enchantments for more movement speed.
Weapon Enchantment:
Vorpal is the best one for TR, since your feats gives you alot of critical severity already, so why not more?
Armor enchantment
Use BarkShield, it negates a significant amount of damage and is currently better than soulforged.
*Updated* 4/1/2014 Soulforged is currently better after the rework. Because you get 2 revives instead of 1.
Companion
Stone or Cat. Augment companions are the best companion, since they can give you up to 3k+ more stats.
On your runes put 3x rank 7 Eldtrich Runes tones. And on your item slots focus on as much as recovery as possible. You don't need to slot any critical since you will have alot already.
Special thanks to ximae for bringing my attention to this point
.Ximae and me realized that our swash 4/4 buff is up almost all the time, so you don't really need to slot so much recovery on the stone. The swash buff is around 1k recovery, so keep your base recovery on your character sheet @ 1,800~1,900 so you don't bypass the soft recovery cap.
I suggest using :
Ancient Necromancer's Necklace of Undeath for the necklace slot and Ancient Berserker's Ring of Cleaving for the ring slot. They give nice lifesteal which is one of the best defensive stats you can have on your PvE setup. But you can add whatever you want, life steal is a personal preference, but you can slot anything else you prefer.
Just make sure your recovery on your character sheet @ 1,900 maximum and 24% armor pen. Here are Screen shots of my current stats unbuffed and buffed respectively.
WARNING: These stats are pre Module 2. This means that they have no dread ring boons on them nor any artifacts.
These are my current stats, as you can see, i have reduced my recovery by 1,000 on the stone since swash 4/4 bonus is up most of the time and i have added more power & life steal instead. That way we would have around 2.8k~2.9k recovery with the 4/4 swash bonus, which is about the right amount of soft-capped recovery we can have without being heavily affected by diminishing returns.
Play Style
While fighting normal mobs:
Use Blitz, Lashing blade and smoke bomb ( or dazing strike) as encounters, and Duelist Flurry as your At-Will.
As for dailies, use Whirlwind of blades and Lurker Assault.
Make sure you do your At-wills while you are in stealth, to proc your feats that increases your crit severity while in stealth.
For Boss Fights:
Use the same At-wills and dailies, but switch Blitz with Impossible to Catch.
Stealth + Impossible to catch gives you immunity to damage for around 5 seconds. So make sure you use Impossible to catch when your stealth duration is about to end, for maximum damage efficiency and survive ability.
Note: for some boss fights, like Karrundax and Spell plague Overseer, they have very low damage and slow dodgeable attacks so you wont need to slot immunity for them.
Also make sure you have Wicked Reminder slotted, It is a 25% damage boost for boss fights. Can't go wrong with it.
Shadow strike is also very good for refilling stealth at bosses, more stealth= more severity= more CA= more DPS.
Bait and Switch is also useful for bosses like dragons or Himinir. Because it can take aggro off you, and gives you a large margin of AP when it gets hit,
Use Lurker Assault only on boss fights, or when fighting a big mob, it is very good in these situations.
In normal situations, versus alot of mobs, stick with Whirlwind of Blades.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Go for full Swashbuckling's Captain. It is the best in slot for TR at the moment for the good amount of recovery and power it gives.
For rings, i'm personally using Ancient Slavemaster's Rings of Control, Power/crit/recovery. ( If it is too expensive for you, you can use Grand Slavemaster's Ring of Control).
You can also use Pyrotechnic Bands but i prefer the other ones, since we don't need the extra armor penetration from Pyrotechnic Bands as we will hit the cap on armor pen without them already, but it is up to you.
For necklace, i'm using Ancient Excorcist's Necklace of Blessings ( If it is too expensive for you, you can use the Grand Excorcist's Necklace of Blessings, slightly less stats but still viable).
For weapons, best ones for you are the legendary fomorian ones. But since it would take you long time to craft the main hand through Weapon Smiting , try getting the Ancient ones from Castle Never first.
*Update* 7/1/2014 Valindra's tower weapons seems to be easier to get, and they give better stats than CN weapons.
So i would go for the Valindra's Tower weapons before i make the Fomorian daggers.
Artifacts
*Update 12/12/2013* Ximae has found an alternative way to increase your stats, using dread boons and lantern artifact, while not crossing the armor pen cap. ( click his name for more details)
These are the artifacts i recommend using on your 2nd and 3rd slots after lantern, take any two of those:
Blood Crystal Raven Skull
Emblem of the Seldarine
Eye of Lathander
Shard of Valindra's Crown
Here is a link to Ximae's post about what building path he took. He has used different equipment and achieved around the same stats ( he seems to be tankier though) so i recommend taking a look at his suggestions
I have never, and i will not, claimed that i'm the best TR on the server. Your build might be better or you might have better options and feat selections that suits your play style. This guide is just my experience on TR which is my main class since open beta. If you have any questions i will be glad to answer them.
Does that stack multiplicatively or additively?
For reference T1 Heroic feats for AP gain on DC and CW don't work at all, is it the same with TR?
I don't know, i have never tested it as the parser doesn't measure your AP gain. Maybe someone can answer that better than me.
Armor pen > Crit > Power. We slot armor penetration because our gear naturally gives us way more than enough crit strike and because power is almost worthless to your damage output.
Defense> Deflection IMO. I have defense on my defense slots..some others prefer to slot deflection / HP..some slots life steal..thats why i said it is up to you. But as a PvE TR, you should dodge incoming attacks or tank them with immunity because you are very squishy no matter how much defensive stats you get.
I am gonna agree to disagree with your assumption that power is not viable. I actually am testing out now slotting power mostly on my armor, and only armor pen on my stone. And i have only met one rogue to do more damage then I (i am sure there are some out there and i hope to group with them to test further).
however you will do way more damage using sly flourish then you will with duelists flurry (i know it sounds all wrong but it isnt) go do two pirate king runs. first one do your normal duelist flurry etc.... second one only use sly flourish and see the difference. i am guessing about a 1-3 mil difference using sly flourish. with the lurkers nerf duelist flurry just isnt doing the damage anymore, it takes too long to activate
and forget about smoke bomb lol (unless you are pvp or in a very low dps party) the only time i use smoke bomb is on final boss of spider
i am by no means saying everyone should do what i do, but dont discount power... it has no cap and my dps is the highest its been in a long time since the nerf
i slot blitz/impossible to catch, dazing strike, and lashing blade (or i put path of blades instead of dazing strike if lots of trash like pirates) you will switch out some powers depending on the boss fights
deft strike is also something you will use on boss fights ocassionaly if you are the one on the boss... second/4th boss in cn comes to mind,
I tend to disagree here if ur not human i think 3/3 for disciple of str and 2/3 scoundrel training is better simply because the str bonus u get always not 50% of the time. But it shouldnt make too much of a difference.
Actually u need something like 2540 arp to hit the 24% dr ignored cap, mind the number is not exact its some points less as i have 2538 to hit 24.0% dr ignored.
This is personal preference but i prefer dazing strike over lashing blade not only because of the stun but because overall i think it is more dps output simply because it has almost half the cd (meaning i can cast around 2 dazings per every one lashing) and with all the cw mob grouping (specially the as and ef) u make good use of its small aoe so if u time it right u can hit plenty mobs with it.
honestly u should only compare to other rogues if the weapon enchantment is at the same level as its the biggest factor to dps. I have met many rogues where i had way better overall stats (stone to non stone) and better weapon and they out dpsed me simply coz they had a better weapon enchant.... it was pretty ovious last night when we took in a rougue with planty rank 5 enchantns and a perfect vorpal.
Luna's guide is focused on adding more CHA ( which isn't an additive stat it is multiplicative, so you are looking at ~0.5% increase in your CA damage) and it is very outdated , because the power ratios on many encounters have been changed numerous time in the last balance patches. Besides, the executioner tree is the best DPS tree for PvE TRs and we don't have that much of a feat selection varities ( unlike CWs DCs and GWFs). So it is very common to find similarities between executioner TRs.
Slotting power while having your armor pen capped is ok, but slotting recovery while your armor pen is capped is much better.
Since you will have much more AP gain which means you will have a chance to use more dailies ( WhirlWind of blades which also boosts your power or lurkers which is 25% more damage). More dailies= more DPS. Don't forget that the Swash gives you around 1k power & recovery boost from the 4/4 set bonus and the stacks are always there due to Duelist Flurry. So over all, slotting recovery and armor pen is better imo and more beneficial to your DPS than adding power.
Honestly i don't know what to say, Duelist flurry gives you bleed stacks + deadly momentum bonus ( +15% more severity). So i honestly don't know what to compare here. We are comparing an At-Will that doesn't apply damage over time, with an At-Will that applies damage over time + adds 15% more severity to all your attacks and you can keep the severity buff up all the time because DF hits very fast to keep 5 stacks up 90% of the time.
Like i said it is a preference, i find it very useful in spell plague while i'm killing the spawn pits when i get swarmed with adds.
Path of the blade doesn't even crit, so it doesn't benefit from my vorpal nor my enchantments so i find it worthless for a build based on crit severity. But if it works out for you, then why not
Lurkers assault does the teleporting job perfectly
Thanks, i will edit that.
Thanks, i will edit that aswell.
But dazing strike doesn't have a 100% chance to crit from stealth, i use lashing when my stealth is about to end after using Duelist flurry, to benefit from the 100% crit chance and the Brutal backstab feat ( +25% more severity) so it can deal up to 34k damage if you use it correctly while dazing strike would barely hit 3 targets ( can hit more, but hard to land it on all mobs with CWs around) . But it is a personal preference like you said.
well its not like u only have one at will u use both sly and df, sly on the masses of squishies and df on the sturdier mobs.
also i wouldnt count on the gf being there helping u, our job in dungeons is actually to tank the boss ( get his agro) while we murder him so the rest of the team can deal with the adds comfortably so if the team has a gf he will be there protecting the cws and dc or just plain kiting them when its not worth to kill them.
yeah on bosses i do switch it around lb for ds as im not benefiting from the area or the stun.... if i dont feel bns is better, ill get back to this later.
using dazing on the dungeon crawling makes more sense for my playstyle i run a pretty defensive rotation as i tend to be the only one in the frontline with the current meta. So i rotate dazing/itc/smoke bomb and just batter away constantly ccd mobs and ill have either itc or stealth up for when ever mobs are not stuned or lifted. most of the time ill have either smoke bomb or dazing ready for when arcane singularity packs them up tightly on the way up or down just before or after they go into the ball. I specially like dazing as i can hit tons of mobs with it (6-10 mobs easily), thats why i think its more dps than lashing, even if it doesnt crit, plus they will be stunned a few secs afterwards so i can continue the onslaught. Also this rotation allows me to easily solo the questing or some of the harder (not cc inmune) dungeon mobs as long as i dont get flanked or they are too spread out.
on bosses/minibosses I tend to use wicked reminder/itc/lashing but it usually depends on the boss mechanics/strategy. If i have to be alternating with the boss and adds i might switch smokebomb for lashing for a bit more of control or on bosses where i really need to keep the aggro on me so it doesnt flood the rest of the team with aoe like dracolich or beholder i like to use bait and switch as without it anytime i go into stealth ill loose his agro and he will throw an aoe on the rest of them. Also i just love the ap gains of bait n switch as if u use its dodge roll when ur under an aoe it will practically fill ur ap bar. That sort of goes on par with a previous answer u gave about recovery = ap generation, i love to get my daily up asap too so its one of the reasons i tend to favour bns over lashing where its more beneficial, that and always using the tactics feat unless very special situations.
The only way you are going to know if you are doing the right thing is where you are on the dps chart at the end of the dungeon. If you are doing 5mil dps in pirates then (providing all the players with you are good players) you are doing fine. If you are only at 2mil you need to rebuild LOL, and there is a significant drop in my dps when i use duelists flurry, i dont know why that is, but i have tested it a million times against sly flourish, and sly wins everytime.
Well, you are indeed running a very defensive rotation here. Dazing + smoke bomb for trash, you must have been running with terrible CWs i would say..but caution is good in such situations.
I usually run with blitz/ LB/Dazing strike for trash clearing, sometimes i go with Smoke bomb instead of dazing strike if the CWs are abit slobby with the steal time and control. And how did you manage to hit 6-10 targets with dazing strike? my best was 5 targets ( barely) with all of them gathered around me. Average is 2 targets when i'm lucky due to its incredibly small range.
I can understand if you are using it instead of the LB for the dazing effect it gives, but for the DPS? i doubt it deals more damage. It is simply because it has a very low AoE range ( and i mean veeeerryyyyy low) that you would only hit more than 2 targets with it ONLY if the mobs are perfectly stacked in front of you ( incase of singularities as you mentioned) which isn't something i would rely on in terms of DPS. While we have another encounter that you can abuse it's crit by using it after a stealthed rotation of DF ( just when your stealth is about to end) and crit with over 30k+ with it. That's why i use them both.
On bosses however, our rotation seems similar, i do love BnS for the AP gain. I can spam Lurkers Assault with it..it is just great. I use Wicked Reminder/ BnS/ ItC on bosses like dracolich..i do agree the BnS is a very good aggro holder/ stealth refiller and an AP factory, what is not to like about it!.
However, for bosses like Spell plague overseer, bait and switch is very useless due to the low and slow DPS the boss has, it is so low that i don't even need the immunity and it would barely touch the BnS clone. I usually slot Wicked reminder/ lashing blade and dazing strike there ( or shadow strike for more stealth).
Lol, you can die at the spell plague over seer due to DF 3rd animation? how is that even possible? The DF 3rd animation makes you follow the object i understand...but if the object isn't even moving, how can i follow it to the acid around it?
And about mobs not staying alive long enough, what about the spawn pits in spell plague? what about the red wizards on CN?
You are clearly DPSing the wrong mobs, your role as a TR is single target DPS, so you go search for the sturdiest and strongest trash mob there and DPS it while the CWs are killing the trash. They are more than capable to 2 shot a group of weak mobs while you are DPSing the big ones.
Big trash mobs can be like"
Battle Wright in CN
Red Wizard in CN
Maws in SP
And many more... besides, like i mentioned, Dulist Flurry applies deadly momentum buff ( +15% crit severity buff to all your attacks @ 5 stacks) and i have that buff stacked up all the time due so lets make a simple math here:
I'm always activate my stealth before i use DF so i get ( 25% From brutal backstab feat + 15% from deadly momentum + % of crit severity depending on your rank of vorpal). And after stealth ends, my cunning ambusher will activate (+ 6% more damage after leaving stealth) so that's even more DPS especially that i will have my deadly momentum buff up which will increase all my next attacks severity by 15% aswell. All this ignoring the bleed stacks it gives.
Now if i use sly floursih while stelathed, i will get ( +25% from brutal feat + % from vorpal rank) and when i exit stealth i will get + 6% more damage from cunning feat. So i gave up 15% of crit severity for no reason since deadly momentum doesn't work with sly flourish. How can i give up more severity buff + bleed stacks and claim i'm having more DPS when i use sly?
Try using combat parser and see how much DF % of your total DPS, when i parse mine, it is 70% of my over all DPS in dungeons. So i don't really know what are you trying to prove here.
You got 2 dodges and ItC, what else do you need to dodge the boss aoe? The CWs can perfectly keep the adds off you if you face the boss away from them.
You don't need to be a pro/experienced to learn how to avoid a red circle with your shift key and one of your encounters keys. It is a child's play.
You don't even need to use stealth + ItC to absorb the damage from the AoEs, just using ItC while not stealthing is more than enough to tank the boss AoE since ItC gives you 100% deflect chance so the AoE will barely damage you.
Try doing dungeons other than pirate to test your DPS at, it is even easier than T1s and you will never encounter a T2 dungeon that is easier than it.
In competitive dungeons like CNs and SP, Sly flourish would give you a very hard time. I don't know how are you going to DPS a spawn pit there with Sly faster than a TR who is using DF and benefiting from bleed stacks + more crit severity.
Before the HV nerf, CWs were far less likely to be using good control powers, so it was necessary to use smoke to at least nullify the wights and wizards. Now, post HV nerf, they're going to be using Sing/Shard, so while smoke is no longer necessary with good CWs, Dazing Strike and Wicked Reminder are much much better since they'll hit nearly every target in a Sing, not even Lashing from stealth can compete with the damage.
^ This. I could slot the encounters that deal no damage - ITC, B&S, and Shadow Strike and smoke any TR using Sly Flourish over Duelist Flurry. Sly is good for PvP and daily quests and there's no reason to be targeting trash like the skeles summoned by gatekeepers in SP. I don't think I've ever used Deft in CN/MC except to escape from being trapped due to using Duelist.
And Path of the Blade is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> because it's not a true AoE, it does the exact same total damage to 3 targets as it does to 1. If you're fighting normal mobs and have CWs that know to use Sing, Dazing, Blitz, Wicked are your best encounters
That is very weird but definitely not worth slotting Sly over DF for.
I use Blitz / Dazing/ and lashing blade for trash. Dazing has incredible low AoE range so you will hit maximum 4 targets ( 5 if you are lucky) with it with an average of 2 targets per use.IMO it isn't something to rely on in terms of DPS since i will need to go to a pile of mobs and literally stand in the middle of them to use it which isn't beneficial for you nor the party since you should be focusing on the strongest mobs and DPS them down, while the CWs are killing trash.
Blitz is very helpful with killing trash and it has a good AoE damage ( i do (16k~20k+) x5 with it) so it is certainly better than Dazing strike. That's why i slot Dazing/blitz/lashing blade because they are the only damaging encounters viable for trash clearing.
Wicked reminder is good if you are going to stack it, but for trash clearing, you would kill any mobs with 2 DF rotations + an encounter so i don't think it is very efficient to use it for trash clearing. Except for Maw's in SP maybe, but even with those i just pop lurkers assault and they are already melting.
I think Wicked Reminder is best at bosses, since you would stack it long enough and actually benefit from the Damage boost it gives.
Exactly,Sly is just too weak for PvE content.
Path of the blade doesn't even crit..and it doesn't benefit from weapon enchantment. It is a trash encounter to be honest.
well alot of my guildies tend to be too dps focused (using chill strike instead of entangling in spell mastery) and things get crazy at times but yeah i agree that if things are going smooth so much cc on my part tends to be overkill... but really no one complains about mobs being permanently stunned. Should give a go at dropping smoke bomb for a more dps focus skill and see how it pans out.
Thing is i left out blitz coz i built the tr a bit pve/pvp hybrid taking some pvp oriented skills instead of the aoes.
agreed! spellplague boss is so easy on us, the hardest part is not falling asleep and falling to the fudge when the platform drops lol.
dazing as u say will usually hit from 1-5 targets depending on how bunched up they are but if u time it right with arcane singularity it will hit every single mob that got sucked in, which can be alot. When ur using flurry on the beffier mobs, not the cc inmune ones, u will follow them to the suction point, so u can be battering the stronger ones till when the final lift occurs and then just pop dazing when they are about to get thrown into the blackhole and hit everything with it
That's interesting, i will try that out
That was what I was trying to say about Wicked Reminder as well. On the larger CN pulls where there's no bridge (between 1st and 2nd boss) CWs will generally do multiple Sings and you can do WR-Dazing-Blitz-WR on nearly all the enemies in a single Sing. Ignoring your own damage (which is considerable, regardless) the enemies are dazed and at a substantial defense penalty making it far easier for the CWs to drop them.
The CWs high vizier is more than enough to give the defense penalty. I'm more efficient DPSing sturdy mobs than running around debuffing every trash mob in a singularity. IMO.
Wicked reminder isn't an AoE but it can hit multiple targets if they are perfectly stacked i agree, but i'm a single target class, i'm not sure how am i efficient if i focus on doing AoE other than DPSing healthy/sturdy mobs down while CWs clear the rest. Not to mention that mobs can still attack you while they are getting sucked in the black ball, so it is kind of a suicide for me if i get that close to 10 mobs gathered at one area just to do 2 encounters.
However, it is a perspective of play style.
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That would be nice
For trash clearing, i only get the chance to DPS the big mobs only since anything else is dead within seconds.
So i'm not sure how my WR is helping with trash clearing, if CWs can kill everything in no time..i would rather be more useful DPSing Battle Wrights or Red wizard and even those die very quick, it usually takes me 1 DF 1 LB 1 Dazing and the target is dead. WR is useless on trash clearing IMO because of CW's high vizier ( i know it doesn't stack, but they can have 3 stacks on each mob which is more than enough to melt it down) but that's what i do. Probably WR is better with your party's composition since i run with 3 CWs 1 DC and me as a TR.
Anyhow, you are in CN parties for your single target damage on bosses. Since with or without you, the trash clearing at CN runs with the same speed because of CWs but when it comes to bosses this is where TR damage shines.
^
I've been playing with esteena for a while now, but we dont even need control on trash since it dies in like 3sec shard exploding for so much dropping its health to 0. No time for esteena to even do anything!!
PvP GWF - BizzyBedBug
PvE GF (salvaged)
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GWF PvP/CW PvE @ http://www.twitch.tv/bizzyplusplus/