So now GWF dps is so embaressing low...

pandapaul · August 2013

Can't hold any threat in CN/MC

What's the point having a GWF when aoe dps and single target dps is so low.. And can't tank cause can't hold the Agro

And the dev said these changes should help GWF in pve dungeons

One word : NubDev

chudovishye · August 2013

They're not even developers, they're cronies.

seisem2 · August 2013

AOE DPS is through the roof. How much power/crit/arm pen do you guys have?

pandapaul · August 2013

seisem2 wrote: »

AOE DPS is through the roof. How much power/crit/arm pen do you guys have?

This is a joke right? Aoe dps at this point is just embaressing
And I run 5.5k power 4k crit and 1.7k armor pen..
Before the last patch I would almost always top the chart.. Now I'm lucky if I get 2nd.. Yesterday in a good party I got 4th only ahead of DC

Right now in terms of pve the class is in crisis

seisem2 · August 2013

pandapaul wrote: »

This is a joke right? Aoe dps at this point is just embaressing
And I run 5.5k power 4k crit and 1.7k armor pen..
Before the last patch I would almost always top the chart.. Now I'm lucky if I get 2nd.. Yesterday in a good party I got 4th only ahead of DC

Right now in terms of pve the class is in crisis

This is a serious question because I see a lot of people on the forums complaining about the GWF. I'm sitting at 6700 power with 31% crit and 2k armor pen. What is your defense at? Your defense will affect your total power based on our feat. Also, are you using an Ioun Stone or a Cat? What is socketed in your weapon for weapon enchantment?

I'm trying to help.

pandapaul · August 2013

My defense is 2.5k
My crit is 37% and I have 140% crit severity using perfect vorpal as weapon enchant.
I'm probably one the more highly geared GWFs around.. After the last patch the different I noticed was massive.. Maybe a 30% dps drop.
Any other class with this gear would be topping all charts

seisem2 · August 2013

pandapaul wrote: »

My defense is 2.5k
My crit is 37% and I have 140% crit severity using perfect vorpal as weapon enchant.
I'm probably one the more highly geared GWFs around.. After the last patch the different I noticed was massive.. Maybe a 30% dps drop.
Any other class with this gear would be topping all charts

Your DPS shouldn't be that low then. I just have a regular lightning and not as much crit. I feel that with all the AOE we do, the high crit chances aren't needed. Crit Severity sure, but crit chance of 30% is good enough considering how many targets we are hitting at once. Power makes my dps go way up, cause every swing counts more. Plus, the lightning enchant procs and causes even more damage. Maybe that is why I seem to do so much damage?

What are your 3 encounters?

Edit: The only real nerf I've noticed is from Slam

pandapaul · August 2013

I did a dungeon as destroyer.. And found it pointless as the dps was alot lower.. So I didn't see why ppl would want a destroyer In party at all.. Stacking another CW or TR brings so much more.. So I respec to sentinel.. Just so that being a tanker build in pve seems like it would be more viable.. But again dps dropped.. And I couldn't hold the Agro at all for the bosses.. Not even for a few seconds.. Which pretty much makes the build pointless.
The AP generation is the main issue ATM.. It's just so slow takes at least a minute to build up a daily.. U didn't notice the nerf in AP to roar or daring shout?? That was massive

I just think they keep making the class worse and I don't see how they can fix it without a major revamp..

The encounters I'm not even sure anymore as nothing seems that great

Yesterday I played with daring shout, IBS and flourish.. But again it seemed flat.
I used to spec destroyer with roar, IBS and flourish.

Most my GWF have already quit in the last week and the lack of reply in this section in the forum is an indication most have done the same

frarii · August 2013

The main problem i notice rewarding on GWFs is the skill levels of players, the good ones (really few) are GIANT contributors to parties, HUGE AoE dps, to the point of melting adds, good survivality, great speed so can revive teammates fast if there are casualities, and they can do TR runs and stuff... But the 90% of the players who run GWFs are... being kind i will call them "subpar" in terms of skill, they try to play either like a TR or like a GF instead of just do what they do better, help with the AoE and take the agro GF misses and goes to the DC/CW... (well with bronzewood there is no missing agro anymore, but still can happen in boss fights), as ive said many times (and ive read recently in other thread) GOOD PLAYERS ARE WELLCOME no matter the class or the gear score!

pandapaul · August 2013

^ that used to be the case.. I consider myself a decent player.. I have played mmo's before at elite levels..
And before the last patch I never had an issue and sometimes I would pug and ppl would comment I was one of the better GWfs going around.. But since that patch it's only felt like a struggle.. Either u go
Dps destroyer with subpar dps or sentinel tank with subpar threat..

Since that patch GWF has lost all its fun.. Just isn't productive anymore

valliv · August 2013

Gwf is fun and fine,
just don't do Dungeons, nor pvp, nor most of the more rewarding things in the game..
stick to maybe the easy foundry quests or low level areas and you should be doing great...

use your slam to slow those low lvl mobs, really it has huge effect..
and all the low lvl players in those area's will admire your greatness... ^.^
it's... really usefull.

valliv · August 2013

Well, in more un'Trolling notes.

in the new area, Gwf works fine, small hp mobs, nothing to big or any big crowd, nor anything that really dishes out any real damage.
but part of what I said above is sadly correct. I don't recommend it in Dungeons, nor PvP. *There are simply better choices out there atm. that are more useful*

Now, I don't even do the daily pvp now with my gwf anymore and I really enjoyed it before even though i wasn't the top scorer, but a good match is fun. (it just isn't a good match for a broken gwf).

chipster · August 2013

Avoid PvP for now, unless you're top geared with rank 10 and such, then you would stand a fair chance against others.

wondras · August 2013

frarii wrote: »

The main problem i notice rewarding on GWFs is the skill levels of players, the good ones (really few) are GIANT contributors to parties, HUGE AoE dps, to the point of melting adds, good survivality, great speed so can revive teammates fast if there are casualities, and they can do TR runs and stuff... But the 90% of the players who run GWFs are... being kind i will call them "subpar" in terms of skill, they try to play either like a TR or like a GF instead of just do what they do better, help with the AoE and take the agro GF misses and goes to the DC/CW... (well with bronzewood there is no missing agro anymore, but still can happen in boss fights), as ive said many times (and ive read recently in other thread) GOOD PLAYERS ARE WELLCOME no matter the class or the gear score!

You re kinda right - its EXTREMLY difficult to bad damager as TR, if they smash random buttons with LB equiped, they still do nice dps. While same skilled GWF is a tragedy.
GWFs dont have tools working themselfves contrary to other classes(DC do at least some healing no matter what, GF got taunts, TRs got LA+LB, CWs got singularity), GWF must know what to do and when to do it because all his abilities are weaker versions of other classes abilities. (for example Not So Fast is weaker, shorter, not stuning, 5-target cap Steal Time or punishing charge is weaker not taunting, not at-will version of threating rush)
Problem of GWF is they by concept doesnt excell in anything(especially not AoE with 5-target rule), SOME GWFs however can make this dull class excel.

skalt112 · August 2013

The problem with GWF's and dungeons, is they get the mercy slot. If the group can't get another CW, or TR then grab a GWF. Just make sure they have at least 3k gear score over what is required to run the dungeon. Anyone who doesn't immediatly see the problem with this needs to see an eye doctor.

Being a jack of all trades, master of none is a detriment to the entire group.

mconosrep · August 2013

frarii wrote: »

The main problem i notice rewarding on GWFs is the skill levels of players, the good ones (really few) are GIANT contributors to parties, HUGE AoE dps, to the point of melting adds, good survivality, great speed

You mean the ones with superb gear - my TR has always out-damaged every single GWF he has run with that had the same or lower gear. It usually takes 2K+ GS advantage for a GWF to have any chance, and after the last patch it is not even a competition any more.

wondras · August 2013

mconosrep wrote: »

You mean the ones with superb gear - my TR has always out-damaged every single GWF he has run with that had the same or lower gear. It usually takes 2K+ GS advantage for a GWF to have any chance, and after the last patch it is not even a competition any more.

+1 to this one.

Current state is like, here you have 1 tonne rock, roll it down the hill - "same" conditions, TR gets perfectly round rock and GWF get rectangular block. And now race!

spicen · August 2013

You guys who bash gwf are either bad gwfs yourself, or run with bad gwfs. Don't know about pvp, but in pve I've ran with 2 gwfs after feywild expansion came out and they have pretty similar overall damage what I have (I'm tr with full swashbuckling, ancient weapons, arp 24%, crit 50%, vorpal on weapon etc). Both of them are destroyers, another is abit behind me but she also doesn't have gear as good as I have. Another has pretty similar gear (t2 set, ancient weapon and knot etc) and he usually has bit better dmg than me. So far I've only done MOTH with them, and I'm pure single target (don't have blitz or other aoe garbage). Anyway point is gwf is fine in terms of damage in pve. (And if you're going to say i suck as a TR, believe me, I don't.) You can run some dungeons with me and see for yourself if you don't believe me

yerune · August 2013

spicen wrote: »

You guys who bash gwf are either bad gwfs yourself, or run with bad gwfs.

<snip>
So far I've only done MOTH with them, and I'm pure single target (don't have blitz or other aoe garbage). Anyway point is gwf is fine in terms of damage in pve.

You've only ran the one Skirmish that doesn't need any kind of gear to 'prove' that GWF's are fine? That doesn't make much sense.

skalt112 · August 2013

spicen wrote: »

You guys who bash gwf are either bad gwfs yourself, or run with bad gwfs. Don't know about pvp, but in pve I've ran with 2 gwfs after feywild expansion came out and they have pretty similar overall damage what I have (I'm tr with full swashbuckling, ancient weapons, arp 24%, crit 50%, vorpal on weapon etc). Both of them are destroyers, another is abit behind me but she also doesn't have gear as good as I have. Another has pretty similar gear (t2 set, ancient weapon and knot etc) and he usually has bit better dmg than me. So far I've only done MOTH with them, and I'm pure single target (don't have blitz or other aoe garbage). Anyway point is gwf is fine in terms of damage in pve. (And if you're going to say i suck as a TR, believe me, I don't.) You can run some dungeons with me and see for yourself if you don't believe me

That skirmish is a joke. We have to tell jokes during it just to keep the healer awake.

seisem2 · August 2013

skalt112 wrote: »

The problem with GWF's and dungeons, is they get the mercy slot. If the group can't get another CW, or TR then grab a GWF. Just make sure they have at least 3k gear score over what is required to run the dungeon. Anyone who doesn't immediatly see the problem with this needs to see an eye doctor.

Being a jack of all trades, master of none is a detriment to the entire group.

This is the problem with the game. I hear this all the time and it is the complete opposite. I would rather have the "extra DPS slot" filled by a player who is good a dps, not another random TR or CW. At 4 AM DD last night my guild had already logged off and I was looking to run a quick T2 before bed... I found a pk party that was looking for another CW but settled for me instead. I got the grief too but they just had no other choice... ended up 3 million damage ahead of 2nd place. People just underestimate a good GWF these days.

seisem2 · August 2013

spicen wrote: »

You guys who bash gwf are either bad gwfs yourself, or run with bad gwfs. Don't know about pvp, but in pve I've ran with 2 gwfs after feywild expansion came out and they have pretty similar overall damage what I have (I'm tr with full swashbuckling, ancient weapons, arp 24%, crit 50%, vorpal on weapon etc). Both of them are destroyers, another is abit behind me but she also doesn't have gear as good as I have. Another has pretty similar gear (t2 set, ancient weapon and knot etc) and he usually has bit better dmg than me. So far I've only done MOTH with them, and I'm pure single target (don't have blitz or other aoe garbage). Anyway point is gwf is fine in terms of damage in pve. (And if you're going to say i suck as a TR, believe me, I don't.) You can run some dungeons with me and see for yourself if you don't believe me

The bold part says it all.

duba11 · August 2013

Gwf is a twitchy class. It requires alertness and thought. Many people aren't on the ball enough to maximize its effectiveness.

tarmalen · August 2013

seisem2 wrote: »

This is the problem with the game. I hear this all the time and it is the complete opposite. I would rather have the "extra DPS slot" filled by a player who is good a dps, not another random TR or CW. At 4 AM DD last night my guild had already logged off and I was looking to run a quick T2 before bed... I found a pk party that was looking for another CW but settled for me instead. I got the grief too but they just had no other choice... ended up 3 million damage ahead of 2nd place. People just underestimate a good GWF these days.

So you ran a pug. Good for you. You came up number 1 on the DPS fantastic. Now do that with the crew I run with and you will have a leg to stand on. Otherwise quit pounding your chest like you are the SUPREME GWF. You want to us to believe that since you took 1st, in a pug no less, that we should listen to what you have to say? Seriously stop talking about the virtues of being first in a pug.

seisem2 · August 2013

tarmalen wrote: »

So you ran a pug. Good for you. You came up number 1 on the DPS fantastic. Now do that with the crew I run with and you will have a leg to stand on. Otherwise quit pounding your chest like you are the SUPREME GWF. You want to us to believe that since you took 1st, in a pug no less, that we should listen to what you have to say? Seriously stop talking about the virtues of being first in a pug.

I only ran the pug because it was 4 am. The reply to somebody who said they would rather pick up a CW or a TR (meaning they would pug one) over a GWF. Hello, are you reading the same forum that I am?

The guild that I run with is just as good if not better than yours in dps. Unless your crew is sitting at 16k GS with top end players, I don't think you are even close. I have offered to help, but you and others keep rejecting it.

tarmalen · August 2013

Remember the following quote?

seisem2 wrote: »

The bold part says it all.

Yeah...you reading the same forums?

seisem2 · August 2013

tarmalen wrote: »

Remember the following quote?

Yeah...you reading the same forums?

Yes. The bold part seems to sum up what I have read on these forums. People are complaining as if the GWF is a curbstomp in this game... but yet it isn't. But the same people who complain say the same thing: 1. they don't really play anymore 2. they don't care to fix their class 3. they are just here to complain. It is all the same. Sometimes, I wonder why I am even offering to help on these forums. I have offered to help... but people I guess would rather just stay upset. Oh well.

tarmalen · August 2013

seisem2 wrote: »

Yes. The bold part seems to sum up what I have read on these forums. People are complaining as if the GWF is a curbstomp in this game... but yet it isn't. But the same people who complain say the same thing: 1. they don't really play anymore 2. they don't care to fix their class 3. they are just here to complain. It is all the same. Sometimes, I wonder why I am even offering to help on these forums. I have offered to help... but people I guess would rather just stay upset. Oh well.

Well I have come to the conclusion that you don't know what the hell you are talking about other than to hear yourself type.

I mentioned numerous times about what is wrong and you gloss over or ignore. I posted timings of AP generation yet you side step that. I posted about how useless the instigator capstone is in relation to solo play. Nope you don't want to hear that. I have done more to try and help this class than you and your lack of understanding.

You remind me of a Jim Jones complex. Everything is ok...have some kool-aid.

copticone · August 2013

tarmalen wrote: »

Well I have come to the conclusion that you don't know what the hell you are talking about other than to hear yourself type.

I mentioned numerous times about what is wrong and you gloss over or ignore. I posted timings of AP generation yet you side step that. I posted about how useless the instigator capstone is in relation to solo play. Nope you don't want to hear that. I have done more to try and help this class than you and your lack of understanding.

You remind me of a Jim Jones complex. Everything is ok...have some kool-aid.

Every class has at least 1 crappy Capstone. Hec DCs have THREE crappy capstones. But most people just play the game and try to make the best of it. You're the one being stubborn by playing the worst tree a GWF has. Dude, freakin switch to Destroyer or even Sentinel until (if/when) they do something about instigator.

I don't understand why you are on a witch hunt against anyone who thinks they are perfectly viable playing their GWF. If I am perfectly happy playing a GWF (while admitting its issues to some extent), perfectly viable, topping damage charts among completely "unskilled" 12k-15kGS players, being welcomed in any group I join, clearing/tanking any and all T2 content, even enjoying PvP, why are you obsessed with changing my perspective of the class? I am not saying you can't have a different opinion about the effectiveness of the class. I am not saying you shouldn't be asking for some tweaks and fixes and a little more viability for the class. Go right ahead. I would love nothing more than to get as many buffs as possible on my GWF. But stop attacking every single person that has a different perspective.

seisem2 wrote: »

Yes. The bold part seems to sum up what I have read on these forums. People are complaining as if the GWF is a curbstomp in this game... but yet it isn't. But the same people who complain say the same thing: 1. they don't really play anymore 2. they don't care to fix their class 3. they are just here to complain. It is all the same. Sometimes, I wonder why I am even offering to help on these forums. I have offered to help... but people I guess would rather just stay upset. Oh well.

You're wasting your breath. The way I see it, the less GWFs in the game the better. Then maybe in time, when all that's left are decent GWFs running the content, the stigma about the class would change or at the very least not be insanely exaggerated. And as a side bonus maybe Cryptic would also thing that there is something seriously wrong and also buff the class while we're at it. It's like hitting 2 birds with 1 stone. lol

tarmalen · August 2013

That is rich coming from you Copticone. **** near spilled my coffee.

Both of you deserve each other.

jornaage · August 2013

It all ended in another pissing competetion grats guys

So now GWF dps is so embaressing low...

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