Does everybody on a sports team get paid the same amount?
You're half right. Each story is different, sure, and being a good author doesn't mean you will use a dragon well but a person's first quest shouldn't be 'look mom people can kill a dragon in my quest!'
Content shouldn't be gated behind cash shops but there's no reason that authors shouldn't be expected to be familiar with the tools before they create more iconic or advanced content. This same concept could expand author detail limits, would you argue that's unfair then?
Sadly if everybody gets the same stuff we end up with what we already have...a Foundry which is sorely lacking in some major areas.
If people prove themselves accomplished there's no reason they shouldn't gain more advanced or exclusive features. I'm by no means saying make it impossible...
But there is absolutely no reason to simply say 'here you go, do your worst' to every single person.
You can call it elitism...
But there's a handful of authors just in this thread I know darn well would do well with more features...features which can not be handed out to just anybody...and to me that includes dragons.
I'd rather have a Foundry which can truly expand the game content rather than holding back good authors.
If they implement a system such as this, and it proves successful, I would love to see additional options eased up on for that specific account such as use of death volumes, awarded 2 skill nodes for use, and able to assign a loot table ah yes one can dream.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
If they implement a system such as this, and it proves successful, I would love to see additional options eased up on for that specific account such as use of death volumes, awarded 2 skill nodes for use, and able to assign a loot table ah yes one can dream.
That would be my dream.
Not everybody can be trusted with chests, skill nodes, or higher end loot drops or more advanced features.
That would be something you would need to earn IMO.
Could it divide the community? Only if you let it.
You can create lootlists for your quests. You have to be lvl 60 and kill the monsters that you are using over and over again. After a while you will have any possible drop in your inventory and then you can start creating a droplist. This takes some time and is only reasonable at lvl 60 anyway, since the drops from lvl x - xx vary. But it is a start isn't it? That way people know what they "might" get while playing your foundry quest. But make sure to point out that the -drops are random-, to avoid negative reviews about the loot.
That would be my dream.
Not everybody can be trusted with chests, skill nodes, or higher end loot drops or more advanced features.
That would be something you would need to earn IMO.
Could it divide the community? Only if you let it.
You must not read all the numerous forum threads about how to maximize rewards from dungeons etc. That idea would guarantee almost no one spends time on quests that don't have nodes etc, and guarantee the "rich become richer".
chaoscourtesanMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Dragons should be kept extremely rare. But then so many folks shouldn't really be riding around on unicorns (or even tigers) and tossing scooby snacks to their extra-planar companions, either. Not meaning to fuss about that, but really, someone rides by on a unicorn, or even a tiger, and practically everyone there should stop and stare. Just sayin'.. it just strikes me as a little funny that these things are common.
I think dragons should be allowed in foundries. Young ones. The ones who are too young to have the wisdom to know that to be unseen means survival. Dragons are rare for a reason, after all. XD
Maybe every author could get only ONE that can be in one published quest at a time. And maybe it has to be the last quest in a campaign that meets certain criteria. Could come as a perk for generating a respectable library of quests.
Adult dragons on the other hand should have hoards of treasure, and should be reserved for official non-foundry special events, I think.
Well, that's just what I think about it.
Rhyon Cawdorian GWF | Opa Loka TR | Cormac Argentus III DC | Annika Thornblade GF | Aerys Skydark HR | Bartin Findlor TR | Aellia Baalthrall CW | Lucan Hawkmoon CW | Opa Brahk GWF | Korzbyrk DC | Den Kruk GWF | Jherek Skarsin CW |
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
Does everybody on a sports team get paid the same amount?
You're half right. Each story is different, sure, and being a good author doesn't mean you will use a dragon well but a person's first quest shouldn't be 'look mom people can kill a dragon in my quest!'
Content shouldn't be gated behind cash shops but there's no reason that authors shouldn't be expected to be familiar with the tools before they create more iconic or advanced content. This same concept could expand author detail limits, would you argue that's unfair then?
Sadly if everybody gets the same stuff we end up with what we already have...a Foundry which is sorely lacking in some major areas.
If people prove themselves accomplished there's no reason they shouldn't gain more advanced or exclusive features. I'm by no means saying make it impossible...
But there is absolutely no reason to simply say 'here you go, do your worst' to every single person.
You can call it elitism...
But there's a handful of authors just in this thread I know darn well would do well with more features...features which can not be handed out to just anybody...and to me that includes dragons.
I'd rather have a Foundry which can truly expand the game content rather than holding back good authors.
I see one problem here...
New authors will still have a very hard time (probably even a harder time) getting plays/reviews for their quests to "prove" they can handle it. So again, those established authors get the perks while the rest just have to look on from the outside.
Narayan
Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
Narayan
New authors will still have a very hard time (probably even a harder time) getting plays/reviews for their quests to "prove" they can handle it. So again, those established authors get the perks while the rest just have to look on from the outside.
Narayan
Everyone with a trophy gets ice cream, and a bigger salary.
No trophy? No ice cream, minimum wage if you also agree to scrub the toilets.
It seems clear than this issue is not as black and white as some people thought.
I'm all for a reward system though, (not Dragons) but nodes and what not. Also every quest should get one boss fight imo.
I think the best way to dish out rewards would be based on how many stars you get over time. That way someone who gets lots of 4 & 5's would get them quicker than someone who gets 1 and 2's This would need to go hand in hand with a better system for finding quests. I don't see it as punishment to new authors but a reward for when you get them. Something to aim for if you like.
If Dragons were a part of it some silly epic amount like 500000 or something.
Please, lets not turn the foundry into some elitist competition to get access to certain assets. I think you people have lost sight of what the Foundry is all about. Everyone needs to be on the same playing field, same access to assets and the same restrictions. If people want to waste their time on a quest that has only 1 room with a dragon, then they should be allowed to.
Anyways, I don't see why you guys are arguing about this. Cryptic will not turn the Foundry into an unbalanced system for the elitists. While not in those words, Cryptic has said they will not be restricting any authors. Putting in unlockable content, would be restrictive.
Anyways, I don't see why you guys are arguing about this. Cryptic will not turn the Foundry into an unbalanced system for the elitists. While not in those words, Cryptic has said they will not be restricting any authors. Putting in unlockable content, would be restrictive.
Cash gating won't happen.
However the bottom line is there are restrictions on authors because the general public can't be trusted with certain tools.
People who prove themselves deserve the tools. Period.
That's not elitist. Weed out the trash and give the authors who are trying to make good content stuff to make the content the best it can be. If the trash didn't exist we would have a better rewarding foundry to begin with.
I think the best way to dish out rewards would be based on how many stars you get over time. That way someone who gets lots of 4 & 5's would get them quicker than someone who gets 1 and 2's This would need to go hand in hand with a better system for finding quests. I don't see it as punishment to new authors but a reward for when you get them. Something to aim for if you like.
It would not be a punishment if there is a decent way to get quests played/reviewed. Which there is not yet one. The new tagging system has yet to be proven to be that. So without a decent system to get plays/reviews it would be apun ishment for new authors.
However the bottom line is there are restrictions on authors because the general public can't be trusted with certain tools.
People who prove themselves deserve the tools. Period.
That's not elitist. Weed out the trash and give the authors who are trying to make good content stuff to make the content the best it can be. If the trash didn't exist we would have a better rewarding foundry to begin with.
It all depends on how you define "deserve" doesn't it? If you give perks to authors already established and getting lots of plays and don't have a way for new authors to get them, then it is elitist. Period.
Dictionary.com definition of elitist:
noun a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society.
Bold underlined part is my contention.
Narayan
Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
Narayan
I would love a way to vet authors as 'valued creators.'
We don't have such a system. Cryptic is unwilling to make such a system, because it's personnel-heavy and prone to complaints they don't want to deal with.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
0
mrthebozerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
No, I'm fairly certain that last comment is elitist, in this scenario. It wouldn't be elitist if you were using "trash" (and I have to say, that rubbed me the wrong way, even if it is just a word) to describe functionally unplayable quests or quests that deliberately violate terms of service. But you're using it to categorize a tier of creations that don't meet your standard for "good." That only a certain portion of the player base with the correct amount of dedicated time, motivation, and talent deserve...what... dragons?
Can you please explain to me, without falling back on something out of a Realms source book that we are under no obligation as authors to stay faithful to, what makes a dragon a more important storytelling tool than, say, a lich? A pit fiend? A goblin, for that matter? Because they're "special?" That is for the storyteller, the author, to decide.
And can you tell me what, exactly, is wrong with an author wanting to make a simple "a dragon attacked, go kill it" quest? Is that quest "trash," just because that is the extent to which that author cared to go before they were satisfied?
We are hobbyists. Here for our own enjoyment. The burden should not fall on us to only publish things that meet a certain standard of "good" that cannot be universally decided upon. If someone makes something they are happy with, and it's not against the rules, that's all there is to it - even if their dragons are not dragony enough. No one has to like it or approve of it, or even play it. It is ridiculous to think that letting in the casual, untalented masses makes the community undeserving of a set of 3D Models.
I'm done ranting now. I'm not even one of the ones that wants dragons.
However the bottom line is there are restrictions on authors because the general public can't be trusted with certain tools.
People who prove themselves deserve the tools. Period.
That's not elitist. Weed out the trash and give the authors who are trying to make good content stuff to make the content the best it can be. If the trash didn't exist we would have a better rewarding foundry to begin with.
Just to throw out there:
Why don't you people get rid of the Foundry and make more PVE content for this game instead of being so worried about something we would be doing for free(making new quests to YOUR game)? I'd be completely fine with that. I would prefer to have never ending content than having to make my own. The reason I made my quest was only because there was no feywild and no high elves in this game. My favorite race is Eladrin, my favorite race is Sword Mage. I wanted to see it in a D&D 4e game.
Seriously. Most authors complain a whole lot because we just can't do most of what we want with the existing content and just saying we want dragons causes an argument about how you people are supposed to "take out the trash from the Foundry". Good quests come from good writers and good D&D DMs. And it's frustrating to see we're being punished when we're trying to give life to our imagination but, no... The trash is there so screw you guys.
Here's another thought. Hire the Foundry Authors when they're good since the excuse is "they have to earn". Hire a few, put them to read about the Forgotten Realms and bam. Good quests and new content coming all the time. It would be even nicer if they weren't announced so there would be some exploration in this game instead of the linear storyline...
War in the twelve temples - NW-DMXDG5KED (Parody of the anime Saint Seiya!)
The Mysterious Woman - NW-DP6MVIC26 (Venture in the fey wild)
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
I'm a player, not a developer.
A player who doesn't want to play the main storyline ever again. I've done it far too much.
One who feels that the quality Foundry authors are held back by limitations that will never go away as long as every author has access to every feature without having to unlock them by making quality content.
This isn't NWN. If an author does something stupid it doesn't just break his content, it breaks the entire game. If you didn't notice the developers are by no stretch of the imagination limited a fraction as much as players. This is because the public at large can not be trusted to make content which is, for starters, stable or isn't simply a quick means for experience, cash or some other reward.
If everybody could be trusted to make the best content possible and to have the intention to balance the rewards based on content difficulty and time-frame authors would have no much more freedom...
Sadly since everybody can't be trusted to make quality balanced content...nobody gets trusted. And the people who lose out are the best authors the community has.
I'm a player, not a developer.
<snip>
One who feels that the quality Foundry authors are held back by limitations that will never go away as long as every author has access to every feature without having to unlock them by making quality content.
<snip>
Question... Who decides what is quality and what is not?
Narayan
Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
Narayan
0
lolsorhandMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 981Bounty Hunter
A player who doesn't want to play the main storyline ever again. I've done it far too much.
One who feels that the quality Foundry authors are held back by limitations that will never go away as long as every author has access to every feature without having to unlock them by making quality content.
This isn't NWN. If an author does something stupid it doesn't just break his content, it breaks the entire game. If you didn't notice the developers are by no stretch of the imagination limited a fraction as much as players. This is because the public at large can not be trusted to make content which is, for starters, stable or isn't simply a quick means for experience, cash or some other reward.
If everybody could be trusted to make the best content possible and to have the intention to balance the rewards based on content difficulty and time-frame authors would have no much more freedom...
Sadly since everybody can't be trusted to make quality balanced content...nobody gets trusted. And the people who lose out are the best authors the community has.
I actually stand by you in this regard. It cannot be given to everyone, and this is the best way to do it. Thought about it myself from time to time and discussed it as well. It's only elitistic if people see it that way, while I would see something to strive for instead.
I actually stand by you in this regard. It cannot be given to everyone, and this is the best way to do it. Thought about it myself from time to time and discussed it as well. It's only elitistic if people see it that way, while I would see something to strive for instead.
I actually stand by you in this regard. It cannot be given to everyone, and this is the best way to do it. Thought about it myself from time to time and discussed it as well. It's only elitistic if people see it that way, while I would see something to strive for instead.
And I will ask you the question... How would YOU decide who gets it and who doesn't?
Narayan
Sweet Water and Light Laughter Till Next We Meet.
Narayan
What they'll end up doing is just letting Featured authors and Community Mods (who are by default featured soon as they publish a mediocre quest) have access to dragons and real bosses, further sweeping the remainder of the Foundry community under the rug, as they have been doing for so long with the broken rating system.
It's simple! Don't have them. That way there will be no bias and I won't have to fight a Dragon in every other foundry quest.
Although if they were put in they could also put the achievement kill 1000 Dragons and get the title Dragon Slayer to strut around with. (Just an example of why not!)
This isn't NWN. If an author does something stupid it doesn't just break his content, it breaks the entire game. If you didn't notice the developers are by no stretch of the imagination limited a fraction as much as players. This is because the public at large can not be trusted to make content which is, for starters, stable or isn't simply a quick means for experience, cash or some other reward.
What you are referring to is not a reason to restrict the tools given to a foundry author. What you are referring to is a reason to:
1. Tightly restrict the rewards (drops and chests) that people get. This is already in theory being done, and can be done better.
2. Have rules against exploit maps and penalties for violating those rules. This is already in theory being done, and can be done better.
What you're assuming, without any reason whatsoever, is that Foundry bosses will be more exploitable than existing Foundry encounters, and more exploitable than Dungeon Delve bosses. Both of these are highly dubious assumptions and would not have the slightest chance of being true unless Foundry bosses dropped purples.
As matters stand, existing Cryptic dungeons are exploitable (as every group running Karrundax speed runs can tell you); bosses have a number of features which make their effort / drop rate comparatively unprofitable without seals and purple drops; it's highly unlikely that Foundry boss mobs would drop anything more than even a mere random blue unless Cryptic did a complete 180; and it is therefore highly unlikely that introducing bosses would make exploit quests a larger problem.
Foundry Quest: Breaking the Chain NW-DELOGH4IH
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
Simple reason. Because its a game and slaying Dragons is fun. Lets face it the only choice in foundry monsters are Wolves, and humanoids. A large dragon would add something else to fight into the game. In my second quest I used a lizardman skin and elongated the limbs and snout and it looks like a decent dragon minus the clothing.
But given it is the same encounter type almost everyone uses as bosses it is not unique.
So if they want dragons you can have different breath weapons, different attacks like wing buffet knock downs and tail sweeps, claw slashes and bites. Makes for a encounter with lots of variables in he action.
If you want to limit dragons give authors 1 dragon to use in there 10 foundry limit.
Comments
If they implement a system such as this, and it proves successful, I would love to see additional options eased up on for that specific account such as use of death volumes, awarded 2 skill nodes for use, and able to assign a loot table
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
That would be my dream.
Not everybody can be trusted with chests, skill nodes, or higher end loot drops or more advanced features.
That would be something you would need to earn IMO.
Could it divide the community? Only if you let it.
Have fun.
Don't worry, if jfinderdev's advice to Raph's dialogue limit issue is anything to go by, they already have.
I think dragons should be allowed in foundries. Young ones. The ones who are too young to have the wisdom to know that to be unseen means survival. Dragons are rare for a reason, after all. XD
Maybe every author could get only ONE that can be in one published quest at a time. And maybe it has to be the last quest in a campaign that meets certain criteria. Could come as a perk for generating a respectable library of quests.
Adult dragons on the other hand should have hoards of treasure, and should be reserved for official non-foundry special events, I think.
Well, that's just what I think about it.
Roland Mac Sheonin GF | Tarron Direheart SW |
I see one problem here...
New authors will still have a very hard time (probably even a harder time) getting plays/reviews for their quests to "prove" they can handle it. So again, those established authors get the perks while the rest just have to look on from the outside.
Narayan
Narayan
Everyone with a trophy gets ice cream, and a bigger salary.
No trophy? No ice cream, minimum wage if you also agree to scrub the toilets.
I'm all for a reward system though, (not Dragons) but nodes and what not. Also every quest should get one boss fight imo.
I think the best way to dish out rewards would be based on how many stars you get over time. That way someone who gets lots of 4 & 5's would get them quicker than someone who gets 1 and 2's This would need to go hand in hand with a better system for finding quests. I don't see it as punishment to new authors but a reward for when you get them. Something to aim for if you like.
If Dragons were a part of it some silly epic amount like 500000 or something.
Period.
Anyways, I don't see why you guys are arguing about this. Cryptic will not turn the Foundry into an unbalanced system for the elitists. While not in those words, Cryptic has said they will not be restricting any authors. Putting in unlockable content, would be restrictive.
@Moonchips
Cash gating won't happen.
However the bottom line is there are restrictions on authors because the general public can't be trusted with certain tools.
People who prove themselves deserve the tools. Period.
That's not elitist. Weed out the trash and give the authors who are trying to make good content stuff to make the content the best it can be. If the trash didn't exist we would have a better rewarding foundry to begin with.
It would not be a punishment if there is a decent way to get quests played/reviewed. Which there is not yet one. The new tagging system has yet to be proven to be that. So without a decent system to get plays/reviews it would be apun ishment for new authors.
It all depends on how you define "deserve" doesn't it? If you give perks to authors already established and getting lots of plays and don't have a way for new authors to get them, then it is elitist. Period.
Dictionary.com definition of elitist:
noun
a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society.
Bold underlined part is my contention.
Narayan
Narayan
We don't have such a system. Cryptic is unwilling to make such a system, because it's personnel-heavy and prone to complaints they don't want to deal with.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Can you please explain to me, without falling back on something out of a Realms source book that we are under no obligation as authors to stay faithful to, what makes a dragon a more important storytelling tool than, say, a lich? A pit fiend? A goblin, for that matter? Because they're "special?" That is for the storyteller, the author, to decide.
And can you tell me what, exactly, is wrong with an author wanting to make a simple "a dragon attacked, go kill it" quest? Is that quest "trash," just because that is the extent to which that author cared to go before they were satisfied?
We are hobbyists. Here for our own enjoyment. The burden should not fall on us to only publish things that meet a certain standard of "good" that cannot be universally decided upon. If someone makes something they are happy with, and it's not against the rules, that's all there is to it - even if their dragons are not dragony enough. No one has to like it or approve of it, or even play it. It is ridiculous to think that letting in the casual, untalented masses makes the community undeserving of a set of 3D Models.
I'm done ranting now. I'm not even one of the ones that wants dragons.
Just to throw out there:
Why don't you people get rid of the Foundry and make more PVE content for this game instead of being so worried about something we would be doing for free(making new quests to YOUR game)? I'd be completely fine with that. I would prefer to have never ending content than having to make my own. The reason I made my quest was only because there was no feywild and no high elves in this game. My favorite race is Eladrin, my favorite race is Sword Mage. I wanted to see it in a D&D 4e game.
Seriously. Most authors complain a whole lot because we just can't do most of what we want with the existing content and just saying we want dragons causes an argument about how you people are supposed to "take out the trash from the Foundry". Good quests come from good writers and good D&D DMs. And it's frustrating to see we're being punished when we're trying to give life to our imagination but, no... The trash is there so screw you guys.
Here's another thought. Hire the Foundry Authors when they're good since the excuse is "they have to earn". Hire a few, put them to read about the Forgotten Realms and bam. Good quests and new content coming all the time. It would be even nicer if they weren't announced so there would be some exploration in this game instead of the linear storyline...
The Mysterious Woman - NW-DP6MVIC26 (Venture in the fey wild)
[SIGPIC]http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=90213885&dateline=1376666164[/SIGPIC]
Those are high elves, also known as eladrins. The closest beings to the feywild.
They are a core race from D&D 4e. You can find them in "The Mysterious Woman" quest.
A player who doesn't want to play the main storyline ever again. I've done it far too much.
One who feels that the quality Foundry authors are held back by limitations that will never go away as long as every author has access to every feature without having to unlock them by making quality content.
This isn't NWN. If an author does something stupid it doesn't just break his content, it breaks the entire game. If you didn't notice the developers are by no stretch of the imagination limited a fraction as much as players. This is because the public at large can not be trusted to make content which is, for starters, stable or isn't simply a quick means for experience, cash or some other reward.
If everybody could be trusted to make the best content possible and to have the intention to balance the rewards based on content difficulty and time-frame authors would have no much more freedom...
Sadly since everybody can't be trusted to make quality balanced content...nobody gets trusted. And the people who lose out are the best authors the community has.
Question... Who decides what is quality and what is not?
Narayan
Narayan
I actually stand by you in this regard. It cannot be given to everyone, and this is the best way to do it. Thought about it myself from time to time and discussed it as well. It's only elitistic if people see it that way, while I would see something to strive for instead.
Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
Plenty of people see it that way, I'm sure.
Check out my quest a Dwarven Rebellion. It is part of a longer story that has much to do with Eladrin.
And I will ask you the question... How would YOU decide who gets it and who doesn't?
Narayan
Narayan
It's simple! Don't have them. That way there will be no bias and I won't have to fight a Dragon in every other foundry quest.
Although if they were put in they could also put the achievement kill 1000 Dragons and get the title Dragon Slayer to strut around with. (Just an example of why not!)
I'd be all up for a Kobold purge!
1. Tightly restrict the rewards (drops and chests) that people get. This is already in theory being done, and can be done better.
2. Have rules against exploit maps and penalties for violating those rules. This is already in theory being done, and can be done better.
What you're assuming, without any reason whatsoever, is that Foundry bosses will be more exploitable than existing Foundry encounters, and more exploitable than Dungeon Delve bosses. Both of these are highly dubious assumptions and would not have the slightest chance of being true unless Foundry bosses dropped purples.
As matters stand, existing Cryptic dungeons are exploitable (as every group running Karrundax speed runs can tell you); bosses have a number of features which make their effort / drop rate comparatively unprofitable without seals and purple drops; it's highly unlikely that Foundry boss mobs would drop anything more than even a mere random blue unless Cryptic did a complete 180; and it is therefore highly unlikely that introducing bosses would make exploit quests a larger problem.
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
But given it is the same encounter type almost everyone uses as bosses it is not unique.
So if they want dragons you can have different breath weapons, different attacks like wing buffet knock downs and tail sweeps, claw slashes and bites. Makes for a encounter with lots of variables in he action.
If you want to limit dragons give authors 1 dragon to use in there 10 foundry limit.
Fighting a ED-209 would be fun
Now I know what to ask for after we get dragons.