How about unlocking assets based on productivity then? That way, rare monsters can still be relatively rare, and everyone would still be playing on the same field.
Numbers are rubbish and used for example purposes only
Create a second/higher tier enemy monster table for rare or more challenging monsters
Provide challenge ratings between 1 and 25
Link monsters to logical environments
After creating 3 Foundry quests that meet 'Daily' eligibility, author has access to one enemy type from this table, from a challenge rating between 1-10, per quest
After creating 5 Foundry quests that meet 'Daily' eligibility, author has access to two enemy types from this table, from a challenge rating between 1-20, per quest
After creating 8 Foundry quests that meet 'Daily' eligibility, author has access to three enemy types from this table, from a challenge rating of 1-25, per quest
Here's my reason: It's Dungeons & DRAGONS! Not Campaigns & Kobolds, or Feywild & Fomorians.
If it was Campaigns & Kobolds, it would be better.
0
apocrs1980Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
I can already see this thread is starting to turn sour. The lead producer of the foundry already iterated this for those who did not watch the live stream: "we are working on bringing group content to the foundry, so I will take the blame for not having dragons available, I want to save them for when we do group content for the foundry."
End of discussion.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
I can already see this thread is starting to turn sour. The lead producer of the foundry already iterated this for those who did not watch the live stream: "we are working on bringing group content to the foundry, so I will take the blame for not having dragons available, I want to save them for when we do group content for the foundry."
End of discussion.
-A fresh off the boat author should still never be given access to something as iconic as dragons. Some things should be restricted to more accomplished authors and that remains true of both group and solo player content This is completely different than cash gating which Craig did say is a bad idea. Some things players should have to prove they deserve to have!*
-A single level four or five level fours. Doesn't matter to me. Level fours should die at the site of a dragon. A real dragon encounter should still require level 30+. There's a difference between dragon illusions and dragon bosses*
Given the utterly thankless task foundry creation is, tell you what -- I'll be happy 'earning' foundry pieces if I also earn visibility for my missions.
Or stipends.
Until then, I have very rude views toward the presumption that we have to prove ourselves worthy of spending hundreds of hours providing NW content. Isn't that what reviews are for?
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
0
apocrs1980Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
-A fresh off the boat author should still never be given access to something as iconic as dragons. Some things should be restricted to more accomplished authors and that remains true of both group and solo player content This is completely different than cash gating which Craig did say is a bad idea. Some things players should have to prove they deserve to have!*
-A single level four or five level fours. Doesn't matter to me. Level fours should die at the site of a dragon. A real dragon encounter should still require level 30+. There's a difference between dragon illusions and dragon bosses*
What sort of system would you suggest?
I thought a lot about this well, basically anyone can publish 2-3 quests and have them eligible in no time, even the exploit authors.
If I were to take a stab at it I would think if your quest was featured it unlocks additional "rare" costumes, but the coding and designing of something like that would be a nightmare on top of the other bugs they are already trying to squash.
Plus, it also kind of goes against what their initial stance was from the beginning, "not to restrict any author from any foundry content" so that they can tell their story how they want.
Yes, there will be quests that come out like SUPER DRAGON GRIND XP IN A BOX 2013!!! But, we just do as we always have, report them and move on.
The true authors that create iconic encounters with the said dragon in their quests will be the ones who stand out and have their audience in awe.
As I see it, there really isn't any room for grey when it comes to the foundry...either it is or it isn't, and this being from an authors perspective, I would much rather have unlimited control over the content I create and just deal with the exploiters as they come.
I personally think gimping the foundry to stop exploiters hurts us worse in the long run and puts severe limitations on what could be otherwise better content then any other MMO has. /rant
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Cragsteep Crypt - BETA Ravenloft Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
To me it's not about outright stopping the farms and the exploits but to ensure some measure of quality.
Badbotlimit said he wanted to save something like dragons for boss fights and group content. I'm going to go off on a limb and say it's because these should be special, interesting and challenging content.
That would mean nothing if every single person had access to dragons as soon as they reach level 15. Sure the exploiters will gain access to them no matter what; that's inevitable. I just don't feel any person should be able to use a dragon in their first 1-3 quests.
It's nothing more than quality control so the one star horrible quest makers don't flood the game with one star horrible dragon quests just because dragons are really cool. I don't want to see the entire foundry filled with quests that read "A dragon attacked the town so go kill it!" and then you transition into a non-decorated single room cave and kill it as the only creature.
I'm not requesting hard core authors only have access to dragons but Cryptic should limit dragons to people who at least have experience in The Foundry.
To me it's not about outright stopping the farms and the exploits but to ensure some measure of quality.
Badbotlimit said he wanted to save something like dragons for boss fights and group content. I'm going to go off on a limb and say it's because these should be special, interesting and challenging content.
That would mean nothing if every single person had access to dragons as soon as they reach level 15. Sure the exploiters will gain access to them no matter what; that's inevitable. I just don't feel any person should be able to use a dragon in their first 1-3 quests.
It's nothing more than quality control so the one star horrible quest makers don't flood the game with one star horrible dragon quests just because dragons are really cool. I don't want to see the entire foundry filled with quests that read "A dragon attacked the town so go kill it!" and then you transition into a non-decorated single room cave and kill it as the only creature.
I'm not requesting hard core authors only have access to dragons but Cryptic should limit dragons to people who at least have experience in The Foundry.
Unlocked on achievement, maybe? If that is possible, of course.
I'm kind of disgusted by the people who say we shouldn't have dragons because of exploiters. This is the same reasoning that has costed us exp and decent Foundry rewards. Exploit quests are sitting on the Best list now, even without dragons. Why do you keep punishing legitimate Foundry authors, and rewarding exploiters?
0
ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited August 2013
If they can make a good mission with a dragon...
They can make a couple of other good ones first.
If hoops prevent any horrible quests then it's mission accomplished IMO. If somebody really wants to make a good quality mission they shouldn't have a problem in making a few good quality missions beforehand. Diving into the foundry and making a dragon quest at level 15 is like trying to run before you can crawl.
If you think there is anything other than the slimmest chance the quest will be anything but horrible the odds are definitely not in your favor.
Unlocked on achievement, maybe? If that is possible, of course.
That's what I said I'd make it. And considering you can earn things other than titles from Foundry Achievements I don't see why it would be too hard to incorporate.
If they can make a good mission with a dragon...
They can make a couple of other good ones first.
If hoops prevent any horrible quests then it's mission accomplished IMO. If somebody really wants to make a good quality mission they shouldn't have a problem in making a few good quality missions beforehand. Diving into the foundry and making a dragon quest at level 15 is like trying to run before you can crawl.
If you think there is anything other than the slimmest chance the quest will be anything but horrible the odds are definitely not in your favor.
That's what I said I'd make it. And considering you can earn things other than titles from Foundry Achievements I don't see why it would be too hard to incorporate.
I disagree with your reasoning completely. You're punishing good authors because some authors are bad. What the heck, man?
To me it's not about outright stopping the farms and the exploits but to ensure some measure of quality.
Badbotlimit said he wanted to save something like dragons for boss fights and group content. I'm going to go off on a limb and say it's because these should be special, interesting and challenging content.
That would mean nothing if every single person had access to dragons as soon as they reach level 15. Sure the exploiters will gain access to them no matter what; that's inevitable. I just don't feel any person should be able to use a dragon in their first 1-3 quests.
It's nothing more than quality control so the one star horrible quest makers don't flood the game with one star horrible dragon quests just because dragons are really cool. I don't want to see the entire foundry filled with quests that read "A dragon attacked the town so go kill it!" and then you transition into a non-decorated single room cave and kill it as the only creature.
I'm not requesting hard core authors only have access to dragons but Cryptic should limit dragons to people who at least have experience in The Foundry.
There are two separate issues that are getting blurred together:
1. Being able to use dragon skins beyond the dragonling, which seems to be of fixed size with zero animation.
2. Being able to put in heavy-duty boss fights ("extra hard" encounter levels).
Frankly, given the number of quests that are stacking or chaining multiple Hard-level encounters, there's a very real demand for boss fights.
I don't think that people will actually treat dragons as a go-to boss unless they're the only boss we get to use. I don't think people will "abuse" dragon costume skins if they're available. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> quests will sink to the bottom, exploit quests will get reported, and if a lot of people don't like gratuitous dragons, then few people who don't deserve it will put dragons in quests that you see.
Foundry Quest: Breaking the Chain NW-DELOGH4IH
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
I'm not punishing good authors.
I'm asking them to prove themselves before they are given something.
If they deserve to use dragons...
They should prove it.
So if you was coaching a softball team, you'd buy ice cream only for the kids who hit a home run, and exclude the others because they don't deserve it?
I'm not punishing good authors.
I'm asking them to prove themselves before they are given something.
If they deserve to use dragons...
They should prove it.
I don't see why. The only way you can prove you know how to write a story involving dragons is by writing a story involving dragons. Catch-22 or go home, in other words.
Foundry Quest: Breaking the Chain NW-DELOGH4IH
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
I don't see why. The only way you can prove you know how to write a story involving dragons is by writing a story involving dragons. Catch-22 or go home, in other words.
He just wants to further promote an elitist attitude and divide the Foundry community into haves and have-nots. I'm disgusted. Every Foundry author should get the same opportunities.
Badbotlimit said he wanted to save something like dragons for boss fights and group content. I'm going to go off on a limb and say it's because these should be special, interesting and challenging content.
Well, so when are we going to be able to put in boss fights and group content in Foundry, then?
Foundry Quest: Breaking the Chain NW-DELOGH4IH
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
I'm not punishing good authors.
I'm asking them to prove they are good authors before they are given something truly iconic.
If they deserve to use dragons...
They should prove it.
That would be a great idea. Moreover, I think all authors should be required to prove themselves before appearing on the Best tab, so we can weed out all those exploits and farms.
Cryptic should hire, oh, 20 or so folks to play missions and vet them for quality. I think it'd improve listings a great deal.
Anything less than that is not going to do anything useful.
Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
That would be a great idea. Moreover, I think all authors should be required to prove themselves before appearing on the Best tab, so we can weed out all those exploits and farms.
Cryptic should hire, oh, 20 or so folks to play missions and vet them for quality. I think it'd improve listings a great deal.
Anything less than that is not going to do anything useful.
That would be a great idea. Moreover, I think all authors should be required to prove themselves before appearing on the Best tab, so we can weed out all those exploits and farms.
Cryptic should hire, oh, 20 or so folks to play missions and vet them for quality. I think it'd improve listings a great deal.
Anything less than that is not going to do anything useful.
So if you was coaching a softball team, you'd buy ice cream only for the kids who hit a home run, and exclude the others because they don't deserve it?
Does everybody on a sports team get paid the same amount?
I don't see why. The only way you can prove you know how to write a story involving dragons is by writing a story involving dragons. Catch-22 or go home, in other words.
You're half right. Each story is different, sure, and being a good author doesn't mean you will use a dragon well but a person's first quest shouldn't be 'look mom people can kill a dragon in my quest!'
Content shouldn't be gated behind cash shops but there's no reason that authors shouldn't be expected to be familiar with the tools before they create more iconic or advanced content. This same concept could expand author detail limits, would you argue that's unfair then?
Sadly if everybody gets the same stuff we end up with what we already have...a Foundry which is sorely lacking in some major areas.
If people prove themselves accomplished there's no reason they shouldn't gain more advanced or exclusive features. I'm by no means saying make it impossible...
But there is absolutely no reason to simply say 'here you go, do your worst' to every single person.
You can call it elitism...
But there's a handful of authors just in this thread I know darn well would do well with more features...features which can not be handed out to just anybody...and to me that includes dragons.
I'd rather have a Foundry which can truly expand the game content rather than holding back good authors.
Comments
Numbers are rubbish and used for example purposes only
Yes, and Neverwinter is not really Dungeons & Dragons either. It's an MMO not a P&P game.
Narayan
Narayan
End of discussion.
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
-A fresh off the boat author should still never be given access to something as iconic as dragons. Some things should be restricted to more accomplished authors and that remains true of both group and solo player content This is completely different than cash gating which Craig did say is a bad idea. Some things players should have to prove they deserve to have!*
-A single level four or five level fours. Doesn't matter to me. Level fours should die at the site of a dragon. A real dragon encounter should still require level 30+. There's a difference between dragon illusions and dragon bosses*
Given the utterly thankless task foundry creation is, tell you what -- I'll be happy 'earning' foundry pieces if I also earn visibility for my missions.
Or stipends.
Until then, I have very rude views toward the presumption that we have to prove ourselves worthy of spending hundreds of hours providing NW content. Isn't that what reviews are for?
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
What sort of system would you suggest?
I thought a lot about this well, basically anyone can publish 2-3 quests and have them eligible in no time, even the exploit authors.
If I were to take a stab at it I would think if your quest was featured it unlocks additional "rare" costumes, but the coding and designing of something like that would be a nightmare on top of the other bugs they are already trying to squash.
Plus, it also kind of goes against what their initial stance was from the beginning, "not to restrict any author from any foundry content" so that they can tell their story how they want.
Yes, there will be quests that come out like SUPER DRAGON GRIND XP IN A BOX 2013!!! But, we just do as we always have, report them and move on.
The true authors that create iconic encounters with the said dragon in their quests will be the ones who stand out and have their audience in awe.
As I see it, there really isn't any room for grey when it comes to the foundry...either it is or it isn't, and this being from an authors perspective, I would much rather have unlimited control over the content I create and just deal with the exploiters as they come.
I personally think gimping the foundry to stop exploiters hurts us worse in the long run and puts severe limitations on what could be otherwise better content then any other MMO has. /rant
Ravenloft
Look for@Apocrs1980 or visit the main page here or Ravenloft here
Badbotlimit said he wanted to save something like dragons for boss fights and group content. I'm going to go off on a limb and say it's because these should be special, interesting and challenging content.
That would mean nothing if every single person had access to dragons as soon as they reach level 15. Sure the exploiters will gain access to them no matter what; that's inevitable. I just don't feel any person should be able to use a dragon in their first 1-3 quests.
It's nothing more than quality control so the one star horrible quest makers don't flood the game with one star horrible dragon quests just because dragons are really cool. I don't want to see the entire foundry filled with quests that read "A dragon attacked the town so go kill it!" and then you transition into a non-decorated single room cave and kill it as the only creature.
I'm not requesting hard core authors only have access to dragons but Cryptic should limit dragons to people who at least have experience in The Foundry.
Unlocked on achievement, maybe? If that is possible, of course.
[SIGPIC]http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=98570189&dateline=1372572330[/SIGPIC]
NW-DCJV53UTU
[Open for play, link to spotlight thread]
Someone who hops through any hoops you set up could make a terrible mission with dragons. A new author could make awesome missions with dragons.
If you don't think the current review system can adequately handle these cases, improve THAT.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
They can make a couple of other good ones first.
If hoops prevent any horrible quests then it's mission accomplished IMO. If somebody really wants to make a good quality mission they shouldn't have a problem in making a few good quality missions beforehand. Diving into the foundry and making a dragon quest at level 15 is like trying to run before you can crawl.
If you think there is anything other than the slimmest chance the quest will be anything but horrible the odds are definitely not in your favor.
That's what I said I'd make it. And considering you can earn things other than titles from Foundry Achievements I don't see why it would be too hard to incorporate.
I disagree with your reasoning completely. You're punishing good authors because some authors are bad. What the heck, man?
Doesn't mean it's a good idea.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I'm asking them to prove they are good authors before they are given something truly iconic.
If they deserve to use dragons...
They should prove it.
1. Being able to use dragon skins beyond the dragonling, which seems to be of fixed size with zero animation.
2. Being able to put in heavy-duty boss fights ("extra hard" encounter levels).
Frankly, given the number of quests that are stacking or chaining multiple Hard-level encounters, there's a very real demand for boss fights.
I don't think that people will actually treat dragons as a go-to boss unless they're the only boss we get to use. I don't think people will "abuse" dragon costume skins if they're available. <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> quests will sink to the bottom, exploit quests will get reported, and if a lot of people don't like gratuitous dragons, then few people who don't deserve it will put dragons in quests that you see.
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
So if you was coaching a softball team, you'd buy ice cream only for the kids who hit a home run, and exclude the others because they don't deserve it?
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
He just wants to further promote an elitist attitude and divide the Foundry community into haves and have-nots. I'm disgusted. Every Foundry author should get the same opportunities.
(Daily eligible! Could use more reviews. Largely complete.)
That would be a great idea. Moreover, I think all authors should be required to prove themselves before appearing on the Best tab, so we can weed out all those exploits and farms.
Cryptic should hire, oh, 20 or so folks to play missions and vet them for quality. I think it'd improve listings a great deal.
Anything less than that is not going to do anything useful.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
+1 to your passive-aggressive win.
Standing ovation.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Does everybody on a sports team get paid the same amount?
You're half right. Each story is different, sure, and being a good author doesn't mean you will use a dragon well but a person's first quest shouldn't be 'look mom people can kill a dragon in my quest!'
Content shouldn't be gated behind cash shops but there's no reason that authors shouldn't be expected to be familiar with the tools before they create more iconic or advanced content. This same concept could expand author detail limits, would you argue that's unfair then?
Sadly if everybody gets the same stuff we end up with what we already have...a Foundry which is sorely lacking in some major areas.
If people prove themselves accomplished there's no reason they shouldn't gain more advanced or exclusive features. I'm by no means saying make it impossible...
But there is absolutely no reason to simply say 'here you go, do your worst' to every single person.
You can call it elitism...
But there's a handful of authors just in this thread I know darn well would do well with more features...features which can not be handed out to just anybody...and to me that includes dragons.
I'd rather have a Foundry which can truly expand the game content rather than holding back good authors.
Don't play them.
Problem solved.