An old friend wanted to play this game and I told him to wait tillw update. He asked me pls and advice after update cos he doesnt want to play "chess where all pieces have the same powers and the same movement, u know if all pieces where a Queen the game would be so boring"
Can not be said better than that.
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Roar moves mobs like 3 inches, I tried it on my GWF a bunch of times, just doesn't work unless CW nicely stacks them all right on the edge with one foot over already. A good CW can drop a singu, use tabbed EF at the 1.5-2 second mark, pop shield at the 3 second mark, kill all adds AND have full AP bar for the next group. GWF needs either GF to hold agro, b/c their survivability as DPS spec is too low or they need CW to group up and CC mobs for them. The class needs to stand on it's own merit, I'm not just trying to bash GWF's here, I'm saying this nerf is way over the top and stupid, and they need a more defined role in the group.
I'm not saying that you can't clear everything, All content can be done with 1 of each class I get that. It is simply fact that given equally geared characters other team compositions (notably those without GWF's and sometimes GF's) can clear dungeons faster. I have completed CN twice as the only CW, it sucks, so much easier with 2, no reason to go without 2. FH - GWF can go as main tank, but with GWF AND GF, the GWF is simply worthless, less than worthless b/c the TR that does 4x his single target damage could be in his spot. Karru so much easier by exploiting first 2 bosses, IE only ranged classes attack them, which makes GWF useless... I could go on.
Currently they have no defined team role. So they will continue to be confined to guild runs until they have more to bring to the table.
Well you are doing it by exploiting the dungeons, so I guess we are talking about two different aspects of the game. I am talking about playing the game legitimately, not cheating. If you have a proper Main tank and a proper GWF that are playing their classes right, they can out damage way more than you can think. I have only played with two tanks that bring the Tank + DPS to the table... most tanks can't output the kind of damage that ours does. Survivability on a GWF is not that low, I have plenty of defense and with a good DC you don't have to worry about dying. Plus you have other way to survive, like not standing in red, using pots when needed, dodging berserk attacks, list can go on.
GWF are not confined to a guild run. I play with a guild because I prefer to play with the same group of people every night, a group that is full of good players and doesn't cheat any of the content.
EDIT: I forgot to mention about Roar. Do you know how many mobs I find standing by the edges of maps? Especially in Spider and CN.
1 they aren't trying tto make the classes the same. quite the reverse if you read the changes youll notice all the nerfs are either bug fixes. or lowering of dps/crits.
also almost every one of the majorly "Nerfed" powers is getting some special effect.
slam (gwf) is getting an interrupt+ enemy debuff
lurkers is getting a built in port to enemy.
these aspects would make these powers more unique and useful in pvp than dps.
it has 2 major effects though:
1 it will mean less one shot one kills in pvp,
2 it will make pve harder without more adds
one of the biggest complains is this game is too easy but has to many adds.
this is PWE's solution. its kinda in a weird way what people are asking for.
sure pwe could use a class in economy of scale, equilibrium prices, ect but pwe is taking
into account the AD the packs bring in, the money you can make from dailies and AH
The negativity of people is more so the issue with this game than the cash shop
People threatening to quit at this point is the proverbial cry wolf. Noone really takes
them seriously, even when pwe does really good things like have sales or lower prices
they get yelled at for it. like when they lowered DYE prices.
You can play this game free to can get through all the content with not a cent spent.
so it is free to play, you can play...and any purchase is up to YOU... heck due to this
games reliance on things like reflexes and strategy and the constant tinkering of powers
resulting in needing research and intellect to make sure you have a good build...
even paying a ton for the top gear pets and enchants is no guarantee to win.
this game is ...Pay to Feel Leet... nothing wrong with a P2FL game. More games
Should be P2FL in my opinion. your paying to have maxed out crafts, cool outfits
Rainbow jumping unicorns, neat pets, to play and emo elves.
in this game the 8 year old child with a lot of free time and quick reflexes and
parents to set up their gear and build will probably win every time.
Well you are doing it by exploiting the dungeons, so I guess we are talking about two different aspects of the game. I am talking about playing the game legitimately, not cheating. If you have a proper Main tank and a proper GWF that are playing their classes right, they can out damage way more than you can think. I have only played with two tanks that bring the Tank + DPS to the table... most tanks can't output the kind of damage that ours does. Survivability on a GWF is not that low, I have plenty of defense and with a good DC you don't have to worry about dying. Plus you have other way to survive, like not standing in red, using pots when needed, dodging berserk attacks, list can go on.
Cliffs are there for a reason, the mobs can (and do) throw us off it too, so I'd say making use of the terrain is pretty much intentional.
I do agree that GWF's are underrated, damagewise we're not that bad actually and we do bring some useful utility to the group. We can herde the mobs for the CW to pick up, interrupt and knockdown casters or mobs beating on the CW or DC.
But that's only worth something on trash. During bossfights with endless streams of trash with just too much HP, we do damage but we do not kill. It's the mages that kill.
The whole problem I see with the class is that while we are good at what we do, every other class does it better. There is no need to bring a GWF, a second CW or TR makes life a lot easier and the dungeon faster.
I'm guessing with the nerf to AP generation that mages and clerics won't be able to 'get it up' all that much anymore, so there will be a need for a GWF to hold the mobs in place for a while. I'm just thinking this won't change a thing in bossfights, if the group even gets to the boss after these patches.
in this game the 8 year old child with a lot of free time and quick reflexes and
parents to set up their gear and build will probably win every time.
I don't get it, you first attempt to say this game is free to play, but if an 8 year old in ubergear wins everytime, you've just proven how much it isn't.
I don't get it, you first attempt to say this game is free to play, but if an 8 year old in ubergear wins everytime, you've just proven how much it isn't.
The kid paying didn't kick his own ***. He said the 8 year old WON not PLAYED.
one of the biggest complains is this game is too easy but has to many adds.
this is PWE's solution. its kinda in a weird way what people are asking for.
.
Have they said anywhere that they're going to reduce the number of adds? Because "making pve more difficult" while sticking with their "More adds=More Fun!!" philosophy for..every encounter ever, is going to turn a lot of people off.
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rofehrMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
Have they said anywhere that they're going to reduce the number of adds? Because "making pve more difficult" while sticking with their "More adds=More Fun!!" philosophy for..every encounter ever, is going to turn a lot of people off.
I can only agree
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kantazo1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
Again trying to balance PVP ended <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up PVE.
I don't get it, you first attempt to say this game is free to play, but if an 8 year old in ubergear wins everytime, you've just proven how much it isn't.
I tried to make sense of that comment, then read the whole post, then had to reread the bit about the 8 year old again. If I get it now what was meant is that the 8 year old isn't old enough to work with the interface, gear/stats, and build so the parent sets the game up for them (rather than meaning they buy uber gear), then he uses his twitch skill and time to become good at pvp.
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seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Cliffs are there for a reason, the mobs can (and do) throw us off it too, so I'd say making use of the terrain is pretty much intentional.
I do agree that GWF's are underrated, damagewise we're not that bad actually and we do bring some useful utility to the group. We can herde the mobs for the CW to pick up, interrupt and knockdown casters or mobs beating on the CW or DC.
But that's only worth something on trash. During bossfights with endless streams of trash with just too much HP, we do damage but we do not kill. It's the mages that kill.
The whole problem I see with the class is that while we are good at what we do, every other class does it better. There is no need to bring a GWF, a second CW or TR makes life a lot easier and the dungeon faster.
I'm guessing with the nerf to AP generation that mages and clerics won't be able to 'get it up' all that much anymore, so there will be a need for a GWF to hold the mobs in place for a while. I'm just thinking this won't change a thing in bossfights, if the group even gets to the boss after these patches.
Everything in bold is untrue for the group that I play with. I can see where people who have been cheating and glitching everything will have a hard time getting to a boss fight -- there is no doubt about that.
Everything in bold is untrue for the group that I play with. I can see where people who have been cheating and glitching everything will have a hard time getting to a boss fight -- there is no doubt about that.
I don't think so. The reason they skip the adds is because it's slow and unrewarding to kill them. Not because they aren't capable.
The AP Generation nerf will only make the problem worse, because you will need two CW's and two DC's and a TR to have the uptime on essential abilities. If anything, it hedges out the fighters even more. In fact, I think if you doubled AP generation, fighters would have a better shot. One CW could handle all the adds, and one DC could heal the party with mostly passive abilities while actually getting in on the action rather than just being an astral shield bot. That leaves the other spots open for whoever.
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horizonshardMember, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 29Arc User
Everything in bold is untrue for the group that I play with. I can see where people who have been cheating and glitching everything will have a hard time getting to a boss fight -- there is no doubt about that.
My playgroup likes to actually play the game the way it was intended as well. What's the point of blasting through the dungeons to get the gear? Yeah you have cool gear, but you missed out on the actual game.
I'd rather put my trust in player skill than gear any day. I've looked at the patch notes and though they are changing many things, a good player can adjust their playstyle accordingly. I have never had a problem with out cleric being able to heal everyone, as long as the dps classes stay out of things that seriously hurt them.
0
seisem2Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I don't think so. The reason they skip the adds is because it's slow and unrewarding to kill them. Not because they aren't capable.
The AP Generation nerf will only make the problem worse, because you will need two CW's and two DC's and a TR to have the uptime on essential abilities. If anything, it hedges out the fighters even more. In fact, I think if you doubled AP generation, fighters would have a better shot. One CW could handle all the adds, and one DC could heal the party with mostly passive abilities while actually getting in on the action rather than just being an astral shield bot. That leaves the other spots open for whoever.
My post was in reference to GWF, not skipping ads. But since we are on topic, yes groups are unable to clear a lot of trash. I have seen it first hand, it is hilarious and pathetic at the same time.
You will never need two CWs or two DCs in this game. If you find yourself needing that, you need to reconsider the main healer you brought (are they good enough? quick enough? geared enough?). There is no way I would take another CW over a top geared GWF.
Comments
Can not be said better than that.
Well you are doing it by exploiting the dungeons, so I guess we are talking about two different aspects of the game. I am talking about playing the game legitimately, not cheating. If you have a proper Main tank and a proper GWF that are playing their classes right, they can out damage way more than you can think. I have only played with two tanks that bring the Tank + DPS to the table... most tanks can't output the kind of damage that ours does. Survivability on a GWF is not that low, I have plenty of defense and with a good DC you don't have to worry about dying. Plus you have other way to survive, like not standing in red, using pots when needed, dodging berserk attacks, list can go on.
GWF are not confined to a guild run. I play with a guild because I prefer to play with the same group of people every night, a group that is full of good players and doesn't cheat any of the content.
EDIT: I forgot to mention about Roar. Do you know how many mobs I find standing by the edges of maps? Especially in Spider and CN.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
also almost every one of the majorly "Nerfed" powers is getting some special effect.
slam (gwf) is getting an interrupt+ enemy debuff
lurkers is getting a built in port to enemy.
these aspects would make these powers more unique and useful in pvp than dps.
it has 2 major effects though:
- 1 it will mean less one shot one kills in pvp,
- 2 it will make pve harder without more adds
one of the biggest complains is this game is too easy but has to many adds.this is PWE's solution. its kinda in a weird way what people are asking for.
sure pwe could use a class in economy of scale, equilibrium prices, ect but pwe is taking
into account the AD the packs bring in, the money you can make from dailies and AH
The negativity of people is more so the issue with this game than the cash shop
People threatening to quit at this point is the proverbial cry wolf. Noone really takes
them seriously, even when pwe does really good things like have sales or lower prices
they get yelled at for it. like when they lowered DYE prices.
You can play this game free to can get through all the content with not a cent spent.
so it is free to play, you can play...and any purchase is up to YOU... heck due to this
games reliance on things like reflexes and strategy and the constant tinkering of powers
resulting in needing research and intellect to make sure you have a good build...
even paying a ton for the top gear pets and enchants is no guarantee to win.
this game is ...Pay to Feel Leet... nothing wrong with a P2FL game. More games
Should be P2FL in my opinion. your paying to have maxed out crafts, cool outfits
Rainbow jumping unicorns, neat pets, to play and emo elves.
in this game the 8 year old child with a lot of free time and quick reflexes and
parents to set up their gear and build will probably win every time.
Cliffs are there for a reason, the mobs can (and do) throw us off it too, so I'd say making use of the terrain is pretty much intentional.
I do agree that GWF's are underrated, damagewise we're not that bad actually and we do bring some useful utility to the group. We can herde the mobs for the CW to pick up, interrupt and knockdown casters or mobs beating on the CW or DC.
But that's only worth something on trash. During bossfights with endless streams of trash with just too much HP, we do damage but we do not kill. It's the mages that kill.
The whole problem I see with the class is that while we are good at what we do, every other class does it better. There is no need to bring a GWF, a second CW or TR makes life a lot easier and the dungeon faster.
I'm guessing with the nerf to AP generation that mages and clerics won't be able to 'get it up' all that much anymore, so there will be a need for a GWF to hold the mobs in place for a while. I'm just thinking this won't change a thing in bossfights, if the group even gets to the boss after these patches.
I don't get it, you first attempt to say this game is free to play, but if an 8 year old in ubergear wins everytime, you've just proven how much it isn't.
The kid paying didn't kick his own ***. He said the 8 year old WON not PLAYED.
Have they said anywhere that they're going to reduce the number of adds? Because "making pve more difficult" while sticking with their "More adds=More Fun!!" philosophy for..every encounter ever, is going to turn a lot of people off.
I can only agree
I tried to make sense of that comment, then read the whole post, then had to reread the bit about the 8 year old again. If I get it now what was meant is that the 8 year old isn't old enough to work with the interface, gear/stats, and build so the parent sets the game up for them (rather than meaning they buy uber gear), then he uses his twitch skill and time to become good at pvp.
Everything in bold is untrue for the group that I play with. I can see where people who have been cheating and glitching everything will have a hard time getting to a boss fight -- there is no doubt about that.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
I don't think so. The reason they skip the adds is because it's slow and unrewarding to kill them. Not because they aren't capable.
The AP Generation nerf will only make the problem worse, because you will need two CW's and two DC's and a TR to have the uptime on essential abilities. If anything, it hedges out the fighters even more. In fact, I think if you doubled AP generation, fighters would have a better shot. One CW could handle all the adds, and one DC could heal the party with mostly passive abilities while actually getting in on the action rather than just being an astral shield bot. That leaves the other spots open for whoever.
My playgroup likes to actually play the game the way it was intended as well. What's the point of blasting through the dungeons to get the gear? Yeah you have cool gear, but you missed out on the actual game.
I'd rather put my trust in player skill than gear any day. I've looked at the patch notes and though they are changing many things, a good player can adjust their playstyle accordingly. I have never had a problem with out cleric being able to heal everyone, as long as the dps classes stay out of things that seriously hurt them.
My post was in reference to GWF, not skipping ads. But since we are on topic, yes groups are unable to clear a lot of trash. I have seen it first hand, it is hilarious and pathetic at the same time.
You will never need two CWs or two DCs in this game. If you find yourself needing that, you need to reconsider the main healer you brought (are they good enough? quick enough? geared enough?). There is no way I would take another CW over a top geared GWF.
Catalina Erantzo - GWF 13.9K GS
<Future> Guild on Dragon - Legit Non Exploit Guild (We are always recruiting great players)
Future Guild Recruitment Thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?475381-lt-Future-gt-Legit-Non-Exploit-Guild-Recruiting
Dont you believe it. They full intend to nerf TR in the future... they just have not "found the right solution yet". See the dev comment on that.
And look, back in June they tried to introduce BoP for DD... to much public outcry. They said "we listened"... but what do we have now?