Thing is players have to relog , which I believe was never intended or if it was is extremely bad and unannounced game design feature .
Prove me wrong .
Clearly you didn't read his 2nd post
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
edited June 2013
Let's remember Panderus didn't have to give us that information. He did so out of his own free will and good intentions.
Don't bite the hand that feeds you lest it won't feed you again.
In other words if you disagree with Cryptic's decision on this mechanic let's keep it respectful.
so lets have a look how a "normal" day looks at the moment:
get a group for cn -> what? you don't want to use shortcuts -> kick
get a group for frozen -> hi! ok, we skip the first boss by climbing a certain corner then kill orbs and then run through to the final boss (see cn) -> kick
get a group for pirates -> don't want to use shortcut after second boss? -> kick
get a group for karrundax -> pull boss monsters back and back and even further back (what you don't want to exploit?) -> kick
get a group for spider -> ok, we jump over the door right at the place we spawn (what you don't want to exploit?) -> kick
get a group for spellplague -> hey! there are gates and you have to achieve certain "quests" -> works! (most of the time at least)
so if you want to do dungeons without a premade you have to exploit (so **** sad) or play another game. add walls, checkpoints and that the next boss only spawns when the actual one is dead.
conclusion: pre-clearing isn't an important issue... there are so many others...
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azrael39Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited June 2013
I think you are misinterpreting what the Dev said. He never said that relogging was part of the, "working as intended." I think he was referring to The chest being open if you start the Dungeon after the DD begins only.
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azrael39Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 9Arc User
so lets have a look how a "normal" day looks at the moment:
get a group for cn -> what? you don't want to use shortcuts -> kick
get a group for frozen -> hi! ok, we skip the first boss by climbing a certain corner then kill orbs and then run through to the final boss (see cn) -> kick
get a group for pirates -> don't want to use shortcut after second boss? -> kick
get a group for karrundax -> pull boss monsters back and back and even further back (what you don't want to exploit?) -> kick
get a group for spider -> ok, we jump over the door right at the place we spawn (what you don't want to exploit?) -> kick
get a group for spellplague -> hey! there are gates and you have to achieve certain "quests" -> works! (most of the time at least)
so if you want to do dungeons without a premade you have to exploit (so **** sad) or play another game. add walls, checkpoints and that the next boss only spawns when the actual one is dead.
conclusion: pre-clearing isn't an important issue... there are so many others...
This is so true. And a lot of us don't like to exploit but are being punished by the community because of it and treated as social outcasts because of it. I refuse to exploit.
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
This is so true. And a lot of us don't like to exploit but are being punished by the community because of it and treated as social outcasts because of it. I refuse to exploit.
Perhaps you ought to form a guild of like minded folks, assuming there are enough players on each server that see things like that.
I expect that they will fix it so that if a dungeon is completed withing the first 30 minutes of the dungeon delve it gives no rewards. That would be a simple and easy fix to program.
Are you kidding? This is a stupid idea.
So hey there is a dungeon event going on. Okay well lets go kick it's *** and hey it took us less than 30 minutes to clear it, hmm why don't we get the chest? The dungeon delve is active and I have the chest is unlocked icon, but why no lootz?
As title states, I'm wondering if the dungeon delve "preclear" is considered an exploit?
I think they should get rid of the delve idea all together. It punishes casual players who can't schedule their life around a DD.
Why should it be that only completing a dungeon during a specific time does the party receive a bonus reward but clear it any other time and all they get are final boss drops? It punishes the casual gamer.
If they got rid of the delve idea and you always get the loot regardless of when you run the dungeon then players will run dungeons more often but as it currently sits the only people dungeon running are the ones who can't wait for a DD but miss out on bonus loot.
You wouldn't have to worry about pre-clear exploit.
You wouldn't have to worry about someone flaming you for queuing for a dungeon when there is no DD. Not only that but it would be easier to find groups willing to go at any time.
so lets have a look how a "normal" day looks at the moment:
get a group for cn -> what? you don't want to use shortcuts -> kick
get a group for frozen -> hi! ok, we skip the first boss by climbing a certain corner then kill orbs and then run through to the final boss (see cn) -> kick
get a group for pirates -> don't want to use shortcut after second boss? -> kick
get a group for karrundax -> pull boss monsters back and back and even further back (what you don't want to exploit?) -> kick
get a group for spider -> ok, we jump over the door right at the place we spawn (what you don't want to exploit?) -> kick
get a group for spellplague -> hey! there are gates and you have to achieve certain "quests" -> works! (most of the time at least)
so if you want to do dungeons without a premade you have to exploit (so **** sad) or play another game. add walls, checkpoints and that the next boss only spawns when the actual one is dead.
conclusion: pre-clearing isn't an important issue... there are so many others...
Pretty much this ^
And again if this was intended to work like that , shame on you Cryptic dev team .
keyrock42Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited June 2013
This is such a minor issue in the grand scheme of things, it's not like it's some sort of magic "I win" button. Groups still have to do the work of going through a dungeon and killing the mobs, they just do it at an earlier time than a DD event, then relog to get the extra treasure when DD starts. The net result is that players doing this can get an extra dungeon run in during a DD event and get one extra chest of treasure. They still did the work to get that treasure. There are so many other things that are far more worth the devs' time right now. If anyone here was around for the early days of WoW they can attest to just how minor a bug/exploit this is. All things considered, for a game that's been officially released for less than a week, Neverwinter Online is pretty doggone solid.
I think preclear is ok. Lot of people have litte time to play and it's very hard do log in when you have time (and not when there is DD) and to be lucky that in that time there is DD. Prelclear hepls people to get ther chest. Also... now with gauntlgrim events DD will be more rare.
Preclear is a work around to a bug, which Cryptic is going to fix Period
No need for further discussion
Say they fix this supposed bug? You enter after it begins...clear to boss and get d/ced. You log back in and now you cannot get the chest if the event is over?
Say they fix this supposed bug? You enter after it begins...clear to boss and get d/ced. You log back in and now you cannot get the chest if the event is over?
Yea...discussion is not over.
? The person you quoted said they will fix it. Not that they already have...
Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
See this whole Dungeon Delve is a bad idea imo. How many people run dungeons when it isnt a DD, not many from what I can tell on Dragon server. My guild doesnt even want to run unless its DD, hell half the time people dont even log in until it is DD. Why you ask, cause most of the time if not all of the time you get **** drops from a normal epic run, only 1 item drops so it is 20% chance that a item that drops will even be usable by you, then its the .0000054% chance that it is the item you can use, and actually need cause well PVP gear pretty much can get you thru the entire game and unless your looking to min/max your character you dont really need any gear from any dungeon. I think this whole idea is flawed as a whole. Remove DD and add 1 more drop to loot table for mobs so that dungeons will be run more regularly. I hope my flawed english is understandable :P
What? if you log back in when DD is finished and not getting a chest is a completely different problem. This thread is about preclearing, i.e. before the lass boss relogging to open chest during dungeon delve. I am not trolling you, but you haven't even understood the point of this topic.
Couldn't you just tag a particular instance for DD? This would keep instances that started before DD from spawning chests after people relog. And it wouldn't take chests away when someone d/cs and has to reconnect to the instance. Although there may have to be some time limit established to keep people/bots from "holding" DD instances indefinitely to invite people into. Then again, invitation and post-dungeon queuing is bugged to all hell already so that may not be a problem
2 GWFS, 3 TRs, 2 GFs, 1 HR, 1 CW
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
Preclearing is not an exploit per the dev. That's all any of you need to know, period. Now as far the delves event goes as a game mechanic....I personally think it's a terrible idea. Anytime you complete a hardmode dungeon the chest should be open. I don't know of any other MMO that only rewards hardmode runs at certain times. Soooo many things done well in this game that are just simply over shadowed by the massive amount of ...well...fail...
1) You shouldn't have to relog to get access to the DD chest if you kill the final boss during DD -- it should happen automatically if you're in an unfinished dungeon run when DD starts.
2) You should also be able to get the chest if you START a dungeon during a DD period, but finish it afterwards -- furthermore you should get a "lock in" so that if you're disconnected, you don't lose the chest when you log back in.
3) The tooltip doesn't correctly state how it should work, nor how it does work, and should be completely disregarded as the basis for what is or isn't an exploit.
It seems like there's an either-or system: you get the chest based on when you complete OR when you enter. That was probably the simplest way to write the code. But because dungeons can sometimes exceed the hour window, I think the intended functionality is that if you start OR finish the dungeon during the DD event, you get the chest. This is different from Skirmishes and Foundries, which go totally off completion and always have a chest at the end.
So as I understand it, the relogging works around a bug.
The reason people are running them 3-4 times is because they figure out ways to speed run. There are multiple tricks and shortcuts, and some of them seem intentional while others seem to obviously be glitches. I don't personally know where the line is, but the current attitudes seem to be that, while maybe this isn't exactly how they want us to run these, it's how everyone else is running these, so to stay competitive, we have to run them this way, too. I also think most of the trash clears are tedious and unrewarding, so people do anything they can to avoid them.
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cichardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Preclearing is not an exploit per the dev. That's all any of you need to know, period. Now as far the delves event goes as a game mechanic....I personally think it's a terrible idea. Anytime you complete a hardmode dungeon the chest should be open. I don't know of any other MMO that only rewards hardmode runs at certain times. Soooo many things done well in this game that are just simply over shadowed by the massive amount of ...well...fail...
Think of no dungeon delve event at all..... then you have every other mmo out there. You clear the instance you get your "badges, Marks, Tokens" from each boss kill to buy vendor gear and if you are lucky at the end boss you might get teh chance to roll on a piece of loot you need. I have never played another mmo that Guarantees you an epic piece of loot during a special event. So understanding this playing a t1 t2 is just like every mmo out there. Playing during dungeon delves is a BONUS!
Think of no dungeon delve event at all..... then you have every other mmo out there. You clear the instance you get your "badges, Marks, Tokens" from each boss kill to buy vendor gear and if you are lucky at the end boss you might get teh chance to roll on a piece of loot you need. I have never played another mmo that Guarantees you an epic piece of loot during a special event. So understanding this playing a t1 t2 is just like every mmo out there. Playing during dungeon delves is a BONUS!
That would be fine, if the Mark gear were the same as the dropped stuff, but it isn't: there are no set bonuses on Drake gear. Gotta say, I find that one mystifying.
That would be fine, if the Mark gear were the same as the dropped stuff, but it isn't: there are no set bonuses on Drake gear. Gotta say, I find that one mystifying.
Um if mark gear were the same as dropped stuff everyone would run Pirate over and over until geared no? that makes no sense. Pre-clear is not an exploit as per Cryptic, thread over?
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Um if mark gear were the same as dropped stuff everyone would run Pirate over and over until geared no? that makes no sense. Pre-clear is not an exploit as per Cryptic, thread over?
Think of no dungeon delve event at all..... then you have every other mmo out there. You clear the instance you get your "badges, Marks, Tokens" from each boss kill to buy vendor gear and if you are lucky at the end boss you might get teh chance to roll on a piece of loot you need. I have never played another mmo that Guarantees you an epic piece of loot during a special event. So understanding this playing a t1 t2 is just like every mmo out there. Playing during dungeon delves is a BONUS!
Cichard seems to think that "every other MMO out there" works as Neverwinter would if we didn't have Dungeon Delves. A big part of his argument is the Mark/Seal system. Now I don't know about you, but in the other games that I've played, the Marks/Seals/Tokens you got for high-end content were basically the only reliable route to gearing -- and that was fine.
But in this game, seals are an afterthought, because seal gear is inferior. And not just inferior -- vastly inferior. Sure, in Neverwinter you can buy stuff off the AH; that's another difference. And yeah, in other games there's typically some sort of timer on how fast you can earn tokens/marks/seals.
Point being that Neverwinter without delves is not analogous to other MMOs that lack a dungeon delve mechanic.
And yeah, pre-clear is not an exploit. Wish fewer of the dungeons were exploitable though.
Ah I stand corrected sir, didn't read the previous
However games with seal rewards generally have raids as a means to get the highest tier gear. I would guess that NW did not make the seals as worthwhile as there are no Raid bosses yet, and T2 is the highest form of gear. But as the game progresses, seals may be of greater value.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
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krisst0fMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Dungeons are hard enough that you should get a chest regardless.... Especially T2 dungeons...
Dungeons Delves are not necessary and since finding a good party to finish them is almost impossible, they should go away with DD altogether...
It has been weeks since I got some useful epic gear anyway, with gs>11200, I already have top gear...
Ah I stand corrected sir, didn't read the previous
However games with seal rewards generally have raids as a means to get the highest tier gear. I would guess that NW did not make the seals as worthwhile as there are no Raid bosses yet, and T2 is the highest form of gear. But as the game progresses, seals may be of greater value.
Absolutely right. There are a ton of differences between Neverwinter and the typical MMO, end-game wise. What I probably should have said is that the Dungeon Delve event here is Neverwinter's version of the lockout timer in other games.
All t2 dungeons need a revamp ,everyone has to know the monthly exploit ,too many adds and lame boss fight mechanics.If you are in a t2 its not fun at all clearing a billion adds and I hate exploits so its a catch 22..ill run t1 for enhancers till devs make it worth while!
Comments
Don't bite the hand that feeds you lest it won't feed you again.
In other words if you disagree with Cryptic's decision on this mechanic let's keep it respectful.
so if you want to do dungeons without a premade you have to exploit (so **** sad) or play another game. add walls, checkpoints and that the next boss only spawns when the actual one is dead.
conclusion: pre-clearing isn't an important issue... there are so many others...
This is so true. And a lot of us don't like to exploit but are being punished by the community because of it and treated as social outcasts because of it. I refuse to exploit.
Perhaps you ought to form a guild of like minded folks, assuming there are enough players on each server that see things like that.
Are you kidding? This is a stupid idea.
So hey there is a dungeon event going on. Okay well lets go kick it's *** and hey it took us less than 30 minutes to clear it, hmm why don't we get the chest? The dungeon delve is active and I have the chest is unlocked icon, but why no lootz?
Stupid idea.
I think they should get rid of the delve idea all together. It punishes casual players who can't schedule their life around a DD.
Why should it be that only completing a dungeon during a specific time does the party receive a bonus reward but clear it any other time and all they get are final boss drops? It punishes the casual gamer.
If they got rid of the delve idea and you always get the loot regardless of when you run the dungeon then players will run dungeons more often but as it currently sits the only people dungeon running are the ones who can't wait for a DD but miss out on bonus loot.
You wouldn't have to worry about pre-clear exploit.
You wouldn't have to worry about someone flaming you for queuing for a dungeon when there is no DD. Not only that but it would be easier to find groups willing to go at any time.
Simple solution, get rid of DD concept.
Pretty much this ^
And again if this was intended to work like that , shame on you Cryptic dev team .
No need for further discussion
Say they fix this supposed bug? You enter after it begins...clear to boss and get d/ced. You log back in and now you cannot get the chest if the event is over?
Yea...discussion is not over.
? The person you quoted said they will fix it. Not that they already have...
On DD events we take preclear into consideration and could get a T2 and 2 or 3 T1s done with chest
1) You shouldn't have to relog to get access to the DD chest if you kill the final boss during DD -- it should happen automatically if you're in an unfinished dungeon run when DD starts.
2) You should also be able to get the chest if you START a dungeon during a DD period, but finish it afterwards -- furthermore you should get a "lock in" so that if you're disconnected, you don't lose the chest when you log back in.
3) The tooltip doesn't correctly state how it should work, nor how it does work, and should be completely disregarded as the basis for what is or isn't an exploit.
It seems like there's an either-or system: you get the chest based on when you complete OR when you enter. That was probably the simplest way to write the code. But because dungeons can sometimes exceed the hour window, I think the intended functionality is that if you start OR finish the dungeon during the DD event, you get the chest. This is different from Skirmishes and Foundries, which go totally off completion and always have a chest at the end.
So as I understand it, the relogging works around a bug.
The reason people are running them 3-4 times is because they figure out ways to speed run. There are multiple tricks and shortcuts, and some of them seem intentional while others seem to obviously be glitches. I don't personally know where the line is, but the current attitudes seem to be that, while maybe this isn't exactly how they want us to run these, it's how everyone else is running these, so to stay competitive, we have to run them this way, too. I also think most of the trash clears are tedious and unrewarding, so people do anything they can to avoid them.
Think of no dungeon delve event at all..... then you have every other mmo out there. You clear the instance you get your "badges, Marks, Tokens" from each boss kill to buy vendor gear and if you are lucky at the end boss you might get teh chance to roll on a piece of loot you need. I have never played another mmo that Guarantees you an epic piece of loot during a special event. So understanding this playing a t1 t2 is just like every mmo out there. Playing during dungeon delves is a BONUS!
That would be fine, if the Mark gear were the same as the dropped stuff, but it isn't: there are no set bonuses on Drake gear. Gotta say, I find that one mystifying.
Um if mark gear were the same as dropped stuff everyone would run Pirate over and over until geared no? that makes no sense. Pre-clear is not an exploit as per Cryptic, thread over?
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Keep in mind the context:
Cichard seems to think that "every other MMO out there" works as Neverwinter would if we didn't have Dungeon Delves. A big part of his argument is the Mark/Seal system. Now I don't know about you, but in the other games that I've played, the Marks/Seals/Tokens you got for high-end content were basically the only reliable route to gearing -- and that was fine.
But in this game, seals are an afterthought, because seal gear is inferior. And not just inferior -- vastly inferior. Sure, in Neverwinter you can buy stuff off the AH; that's another difference. And yeah, in other games there's typically some sort of timer on how fast you can earn tokens/marks/seals.
Point being that Neverwinter without delves is not analogous to other MMOs that lack a dungeon delve mechanic.
And yeah, pre-clear is not an exploit. Wish fewer of the dungeons were exploitable though.
However games with seal rewards generally have raids as a means to get the highest tier gear. I would guess that NW did not make the seals as worthwhile as there are no Raid bosses yet, and T2 is the highest form of gear. But as the game progresses, seals may be of greater value.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Dungeons Delves are not necessary and since finding a good party to finish them is almost impossible, they should go away with DD altogether...
It has been weeks since I got some useful epic gear anyway, with gs>11200, I already have top gear...
Absolutely right. There are a ton of differences between Neverwinter and the typical MMO, end-game wise. What I probably should have said is that the Dungeon Delve event here is Neverwinter's version of the lockout timer in other games.