It is truly a bliss when we STREAM our games (both me & the accused laudon) where you can clearly spot the cheat if it was used, since it requires opening inventory mid game, yet you are still being ignorant about it.
Edit: the day i'll use hacks/cheats to win a pvp game I'll simply quit it, I don't want to take pride in winning a cheated game.
It is truly a bliss when we STREAM our games (both me & the accused laudon) where you can clearly spot the cheat if it was used, since it requires opening inventory mid game, yet you are still being ignorant about it.
So knowingly using a super OP bugged out Perfect Thunderhead for the entire team to constantly Stun melee enemies attacking you isn't cheating?
LOL OK
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nukeyooBanned Users, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
It is truly a bliss when we STREAM our games (both me & the accused laudon) where you can clearly spot the cheat if it was used, since it requires opening inventory mid game, yet you are still being ignorant about it.
Someone would have to be pretty ignorant to use a cheat/exploit while knowingly streaming for any and all to see.
It was on the Test Server so Prototype could have used Perect Thunderheads too if they wanted to. They probably just didn't know about the cooldown so they didn't use them. They asked Lemonade Stand to swap their thunderheads to negation/soulforge and then rematched them and they still lost by ~800 points. Using a bugged item is also not an exploit, there's a huge difference between an exploit, a bug, and just smart gearing.
Frankly I'm tired explaining ignorant people the differences between taking advantage of certain aspects of the game and plain cheating, if you feel the need to accuse because you're too scared to play this game at high lvl be my guest. You're always welcome to challenge us under fair rules (whether its no enchants, one class per team, blue gear only) and see how match up against us.
The only place where CWs can really shine is 20 vs 20. In gauntlgrym, i enjoy more playing my CW (it doesn't mean i'm doing better, don't get me wrong), even if my cleric has a better gear, 2 tenes enchants and a greater thunderhead. It's just a lot of fun to pop ice stom and shard of endless avalanche on enemy wagons. CWs aren't single target hitters, they aren't warlocks either, but their aoes are nasty. All you need is a good amount of red guys in the vicinity. So i do understand the complaint about CWs, but 5 vs 5 is just not the best place to play one. It's a very potent class in 20 vs 20 though, and if a CW isn't doing well there i suggest he make some changes in his spell bar.
I have to agree using bugged items would be considered an expliot. Even if everyone can use em, it can really mess up the ballance of one class totally and in this case it really does. It's not like the game is even remotly close to be ballanced for pvp in the first place. But quit alot of the "special" enchants ****s up the ballance even more. This game just isn't well suited for pvp tournaments and stuff like that. I sugest people chose another games for those stuffs.
Frankly I'm tired explaining ignorant people the differences between taking advantage of certain aspects of the game and plain cheating, if you feel the need to accuse because you're too scared to play this game at high lvl be my guest. You're always welcome to challenge us under fair rules (whether its no enchants, one class per team, blue gear only) and see how match up against us.
YOU are the ignorant one here. You can keep trying to deny the fact that you guys exploit, cheat, and straight up cheese as much as you can. Everyone already knows what you guys do. Your pathetic justification and defense of "everyone can do it" and "it's only taking advantage of bugs" doesn't cut it.
You people knowingly try to exploit whatever bug or OP build/class there is in this game to make your e-peens seem larger and make a name for yourselves in this fail game. Your own definition of cheating and exploiting is more like hacking, using scripts, and using 3rd party programs to gain an unfair advantage over others. But you won't admit that using bugged Enchants, skills, and builds is also considered cheating and exploiting.
Nobody is denying the fact that you guys have skill, but your exploiting and using cheese comps diminish any sense of glory you achieve in this already imbalanced and joke of a game. Have fun stomping on more randies and then posting about it on the forums. I'm sure it makes you seem more significant in real life.
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laudon1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
ppl r 2 serious on the forums. we just wanna have fun
Lemonade Stand.
Dragon Guild
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Frankly I'm tired explaining ignorant people the differences between taking advantage of certain aspects of the game and plain cheating, if you feel the need to accuse because you're too scared to play this game at high lvl be my guest. You're always welcome to challenge us under fair rules (whether its no enchants, one class per team, blue gear only) and see how match up against us.
That's because you're being logically inconsistent. You're drawing a line where taking advantage of an unintended coding flaw in your mind isn't cheating but using a script (or simply opening your inventory) to swap in a new armor piece to avoid the CD is. The effect is the same and both are unintended and BOTH take active steps to enable the unintended effect. Think about it like this, if Thunderhead wasn't bugged would all or most of your team have used it or some other armor enchant?
Now, I have no problem saying that Lemonade Stand is probably the best PvP guild in the game right now, but I can also say that serious PvP is a very small group right and that many guilds (like ours) that normally embrace comp PvP aren't until some of the more glaring issues are worked out. You guys may still be on top of the heap in 6-12 months, but you'd do a lot more for your reputation now by searching out bugs and exploits and reporting them than taking advantage of them while PvP is in its nascent stage.
I'll just say this, before it was us being better geared, then it was the use of tenes on classes which didn't seem ideal to use it, then it went to armor enchants, every time there is some other thing to complain about, the fact is we always try to seek the best guilds to go against. we actually more often help other guilds with builds and share setups, there are plenty of people who copied our builds after crying about them and now happily use them.
Have fun stomping on more randies and then posting about it on the forums. I'm sure it makes you seem more significant in real life.
So you're saying one of beholder's best are "randies", and all the premades we posted thus far? so arrogant.
regarding definition of cheat/exploit/hack whatever it is that you think we're doing, first of all, we show everyone what we're doing in pvp, it's not like we hide some secrets, and do you really think if lemonade would quit the game tomorrow, the QQ threads would stop? the exploiting will stop? are you really that THICK? just because 90% of zone chat doing exploits and we get the heat for it cause your logic is "if they're good, they must be cheating" doesn't make it true.
even the people that complain about spawn camping are clueless, they are so ignorant they just fill in "exploit" where all you have to do is JUMP + DASH FORWARD, WOW SUPER SECRET EXPLOIT! how no one thought of that.
Look I get your frustration with the game, and that you run into full perma stealth rogues and unkillable gwfs, but do you really think that it's all a fault of one guild? if we wanna put things on the table, I know of even more serious exploits out there that if we even dare attempt to use are going to be game breaking.
That's why we agree to 5v5 blue tourny settings and even going on PTR where its equal gear. I don't see any of you doing the same, you're just wasting posts on QQing most of the time.
thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
Look, you guys are pretty much model comp PvP'ers. Your forum posts are respectful in most cases, you're gracious in victory, and you've certainly done your homework on what does and doesn't work and more importantly works better than it should. The only thing I'd criticize you on is that your focus (IMO) ought to be reporting the flaws you find and then not using them. That's it.
PvP meta will not change till there is a server merge and top PvP teams can face each other on a daily basis. Issue is limited pool of top players spread across servers with a broken enchant/feat system.
Even if you play in a fixed 1 each team comp players will find specific builds and specific gear for each build that gives the most advantage and players will QQ.
Recommendation is setup a Premade vs. Premade chat channel on your server as we have on (mindflayer). Before each match agree to team comps, use of consumables (rules) and start your match. This helps reduce the QQ after the match and promotes fair sportsmanship.
Also if your team is not enjoying the match, just leave and do not play vs. those teams again. Keep the chat clean and drama out.
Frankly I'm tired explaining ignorant people the differences between taking advantage of certain aspects of the game and plain cheating, if you feel the need to accuse because you're too scared to play this game at high lvl be my guest. You're always welcome to challenge us under fair rules (whether its no enchants, one class per team, blue gear only) and see how match up against us.
Your reputation precedes you and your guild and your apologetic demeanor,superiority complex,personal taunting tactics ala "come at me braw" and troll insults "you're just wasting posts on QQing most of the time" is not helping your case...just circling around the issue between statements like "everyone does it" and "is the fault of the game" just really cement the obvious....
I'll just say this, before it was us being better geared, then it was the use of tenes on classes which didn't seem ideal to use it, then it went to armor enchants, every time there is some other thing to complain about, the fact is we always try to seek the best guilds to go against. we actually more often help other guilds with builds and share setups, there are plenty of people who copied our builds after crying about them and now happily use them.
Being well-geared is no excuse to whine. People cry about gear all the time. I never do, so don't use that line of logic on me. Everyone knows how broken G.Tenes are and they've been nerfed several times. Cryptic has no clue how to balance G.Tenes, so cheese builds like Sent. GWF, GFs, and permastealth Rogues will continue to abuse those imbalanced Enchants. It is what it is. As for copying your builds, I never did that either. I use my own build. Always have, always will. You guys may be the trend setter for cheese players looking to faceroll, but don't include me in that crowd.
So you're saying one of beholder's best are "randies", and all the premades we posted thus far? so arrogant.
They're randies to me. Never met them, never played against them. Beholder is well known for being the least populated server. They chose it for a reason. Saying they're "Beholder's best" means nothing to me. For all I know or care, they're just not as good as you guys are at using cheese comps and exploiting broken Enchants. Grats for beating them...? Must be really proud of using 3 GWFs and full P.Thunders on them lol.
regarding definition of cheat/exploit/hack whatever it is that you think we're doing, first of all, we show everyone what we're doing in pvp, it's not like we hide some secrets, and do you really think if lemonade would quit the game tomorrow, the QQ threads would stop? the exploiting will stop? are you really that THICK? just because 90% of zone chat doing exploits and we get the heat for it cause your logic is "if they're good, they must be cheating" doesn't make it true.
Just because you show SOME of the exploits you use doesn't make it OK to use them. That's like a professional sports team saying hey, we all take roids and PEDs, you can too! Then bragging about beating other teams that don't use roids. Cheating is cheating.
Exploiting will happen in this bug-ridden game regardless if you guys are around or not. The difference is, you people publicly show off, troll, and broadcast your exploits, thinking it's funny and cool. QQ threads will never stop in any game, not just Neverwinter. Not sure what your point is. Just stating the obvious.
even the people that complain about spawn camping are clueless, they are so ignorant they just fill in "exploit" where all you have to do is JUMP + DASH FORWARD, WOW SUPER SECRET EXPLOIT! how no one thought of that.
Now that you brought up the spawn camping in GG... it's funny that you think queue syncing with multiple premade groups to stomp on bad players with bad gear is perfectly OK. Luskan side can't be spawn camped, but Explorer's side can. How is that fair? How is that amusing? You guys purposely rush to their spawn and ruin the game for everyone involved, including your own team's random players. Griefing is griefing.
Look I get your frustration with the game, and that you run into full perma stealth rogues and unkillable gwfs, but do you really think that it's all a fault of one guild? if we wanna put things on the table, I know of even more serious exploits out there that if we even dare attempt to use are going to be game breaking.
I'm not frustrated at all with cheese builds and players. I do just fine owning them all without having to cheese and exploit. My problem is people like you and your guild bragging, acting all superior, and thinking you're actually amazing at this imbalanced game by using cheese builds, comps, and bugged out Enchants. Do some solo queues without your premades and cheese builds/bugged Enchants, then show your results. Until then, you stomping on randies mean nothing.
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derpaderpistMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
so many jell0 GWF haters in this thread it's not even funny
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Look, you guys are pretty much model comp PvP'ers. Your forum posts are respectful in most cases, you're gracious in victory, and you've certainly done your homework on what does and doesn't work and more importantly works better than it should. The only thing I'd criticize you on is that your focus (IMO) ought to be reporting the flaws you find and then not using them. That's it.
This sums it up pretty much exactly. How good is Lemonade Stand at playing? Nobody knows, because what do we know is they are good at finding out what is _broken_ and using it to their maximum advantage. A perfect example: Everybody knows their armor enchant is bugged, so they put their whole team on it and claim they're just using mechanics.
This sums it up pretty much exactly. How good is Lemonade Stand at playing? Nobody knows, because what do we know is they are good at finding out what is _broken_ and using it to their maximum advantage. A perfect example: Everybody knows their armor enchant is bugged, so they put their whole team on it and claim they're just using mechanics.
Stop the QQ drama please. So many haters. We all know PvP is broken and if you are not happy with the team comp you are vs. or what you think is cheating, just drop the match.
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Stop the QQ drama please. So many haters. We all know PvP is broken and if you are not happy with the team comp you are vs. or what you think is cheating, just drop the match.
No, that's not the point. The question is whether Lemonade Stand (and others) are helping build a successful comp environment or not. Right now they're doing a good job in publicizing high skill level PvP and certainly doing a good job in finding good builds & strats. What they're doing less well is creating a situation where the PvP community gets bigger and PvP in this game gets better overall.
Publicize what's broken and stop using it in matches. Refuse to match with people who insist on using broken ****. I PvP'ed on CoH's test server extensively and I'd love to see Mimic get that kind of participation.
thorizden - Lemonade Stand has been promoting the Blue/Green Gear League and even in this thread brings it up again. As I see it they are doing more for the community than most and why I actually pay attention to their thread. (Besides a good source of forum QQ's to recharge on.)
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thorizdenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
I agree, and I give them props for that. Like I said, the only thing I ding them on is continuing to use known broken stuff (I'm assuming/hoping they're reporting said broken stuff).
They're on the same server as us and in my experience their players are good to game with in PvE and PvP.
Pwn star and his prototype team are very strong. They are good people. We enjoyed our match together. Pwn star is the strongest cw i have ran into to this day. Good game guys. I hope we can play again. The xavory is such a smart man. respect. you cant compare us with Laudon, hes an evil scientist.
Thanks for the compliments bro, we appreciate it. I'm sure we'll meet again, I hope.
As long as the game has no MMR/ELO/Trueskill/Ladder system, there is no "The Best". Even 3rd party tourney's held by players means nothing. The more you PvP the more you learn who the good players are and who the cheaters are. It's the best part of having a small PvP community.
Comments
It is truly a bliss when we STREAM our games (both me & the accused laudon) where you can clearly spot the cheat if it was used, since it requires opening inventory mid game, yet you are still being ignorant about it.
Edit: the day i'll use hacks/cheats to win a pvp game I'll simply quit it, I don't want to take pride in winning a cheated game.
So knowingly using a super OP bugged out Perfect Thunderhead for the entire team to constantly Stun melee enemies attacking you isn't cheating?
LOL OK
Someone would have to be pretty ignorant to use a cheat/exploit while knowingly streaming for any and all to see.
Frankly I'm tired explaining ignorant people the differences between taking advantage of certain aspects of the game and plain cheating, if you feel the need to accuse because you're too scared to play this game at high lvl be my guest. You're always welcome to challenge us under fair rules (whether its no enchants, one class per team, blue gear only) and see how match up against us.
YOU are the ignorant one here. You can keep trying to deny the fact that you guys exploit, cheat, and straight up cheese as much as you can. Everyone already knows what you guys do. Your pathetic justification and defense of "everyone can do it" and "it's only taking advantage of bugs" doesn't cut it.
You people knowingly try to exploit whatever bug or OP build/class there is in this game to make your e-peens seem larger and make a name for yourselves in this fail game. Your own definition of cheating and exploiting is more like hacking, using scripts, and using 3rd party programs to gain an unfair advantage over others. But you won't admit that using bugged Enchants, skills, and builds is also considered cheating and exploiting.
Nobody is denying the fact that you guys have skill, but your exploiting and using cheese comps diminish any sense of glory you achieve in this already imbalanced and joke of a game. Have fun stomping on more randies and then posting about it on the forums. I'm sure it makes you seem more significant in real life.
Dragon Guild
That's because you're being logically inconsistent. You're drawing a line where taking advantage of an unintended coding flaw in your mind isn't cheating but using a script (or simply opening your inventory) to swap in a new armor piece to avoid the CD is. The effect is the same and both are unintended and BOTH take active steps to enable the unintended effect. Think about it like this, if Thunderhead wasn't bugged would all or most of your team have used it or some other armor enchant?
Now, I have no problem saying that Lemonade Stand is probably the best PvP guild in the game right now, but I can also say that serious PvP is a very small group right and that many guilds (like ours) that normally embrace comp PvP aren't until some of the more glaring issues are worked out. You guys may still be on top of the heap in 6-12 months, but you'd do a lot more for your reputation now by searching out bugs and exploits and reporting them than taking advantage of them while PvP is in its nascent stage.
So you're saying one of beholder's best are "randies", and all the premades we posted thus far? so arrogant.
regarding definition of cheat/exploit/hack whatever it is that you think we're doing, first of all, we show everyone what we're doing in pvp, it's not like we hide some secrets, and do you really think if lemonade would quit the game tomorrow, the QQ threads would stop? the exploiting will stop? are you really that THICK? just because 90% of zone chat doing exploits and we get the heat for it cause your logic is "if they're good, they must be cheating" doesn't make it true.
even the people that complain about spawn camping are clueless, they are so ignorant they just fill in "exploit" where all you have to do is JUMP + DASH FORWARD, WOW SUPER SECRET EXPLOIT! how no one thought of that.
Look I get your frustration with the game, and that you run into full perma stealth rogues and unkillable gwfs, but do you really think that it's all a fault of one guild? if we wanna put things on the table, I know of even more serious exploits out there that if we even dare attempt to use are going to be game breaking.
That's why we agree to 5v5 blue tourny settings and even going on PTR where its equal gear. I don't see any of you doing the same, you're just wasting posts on QQing most of the time.
Even if you play in a fixed 1 each team comp players will find specific builds and specific gear for each build that gives the most advantage and players will QQ.
Recommendation is setup a Premade vs. Premade chat channel on your server as we have on (mindflayer). Before each match agree to team comps, use of consumables (rules) and start your match. This helps reduce the QQ after the match and promotes fair sportsmanship.
Also if your team is not enjoying the match, just leave and do not play vs. those teams again. Keep the chat clean and drama out.
Your reputation precedes you and your guild and your apologetic demeanor,superiority complex,personal taunting tactics ala "come at me braw" and troll insults "you're just wasting posts on QQing most of the time" is not helping your case...just circling around the issue between statements like "everyone does it" and "is the fault of the game" just really cement the obvious....
To reiterate:
Your reputation precedes you
Being well-geared is no excuse to whine. People cry about gear all the time. I never do, so don't use that line of logic on me. Everyone knows how broken G.Tenes are and they've been nerfed several times. Cryptic has no clue how to balance G.Tenes, so cheese builds like Sent. GWF, GFs, and permastealth Rogues will continue to abuse those imbalanced Enchants. It is what it is. As for copying your builds, I never did that either. I use my own build. Always have, always will. You guys may be the trend setter for cheese players looking to faceroll, but don't include me in that crowd.
They're randies to me. Never met them, never played against them. Beholder is well known for being the least populated server. They chose it for a reason. Saying they're "Beholder's best" means nothing to me. For all I know or care, they're just not as good as you guys are at using cheese comps and exploiting broken Enchants. Grats for beating them...? Must be really proud of using 3 GWFs and full P.Thunders on them lol.
Just because you show SOME of the exploits you use doesn't make it OK to use them. That's like a professional sports team saying hey, we all take roids and PEDs, you can too! Then bragging about beating other teams that don't use roids. Cheating is cheating.
Exploiting will happen in this bug-ridden game regardless if you guys are around or not. The difference is, you people publicly show off, troll, and broadcast your exploits, thinking it's funny and cool. QQ threads will never stop in any game, not just Neverwinter. Not sure what your point is. Just stating the obvious.
Now that you brought up the spawn camping in GG... it's funny that you think queue syncing with multiple premade groups to stomp on bad players with bad gear is perfectly OK. Luskan side can't be spawn camped, but Explorer's side can. How is that fair? How is that amusing? You guys purposely rush to their spawn and ruin the game for everyone involved, including your own team's random players. Griefing is griefing.
I'm not frustrated at all with cheese builds and players. I do just fine owning them all without having to cheese and exploit. My problem is people like you and your guild bragging, acting all superior, and thinking you're actually amazing at this imbalanced game by using cheese builds, comps, and bugged out Enchants. Do some solo queues without your premades and cheese builds/bugged Enchants, then show your results. Until then, you stomping on randies mean nothing.
This sums it up pretty much exactly. How good is Lemonade Stand at playing? Nobody knows, because what do we know is they are good at finding out what is _broken_ and using it to their maximum advantage. A perfect example: Everybody knows their armor enchant is bugged, so they put their whole team on it and claim they're just using mechanics.
Stop the QQ drama please. So many haters. We all know PvP is broken and if you are not happy with the team comp you are vs. or what you think is cheating, just drop the match.
No, that's not the point. The question is whether Lemonade Stand (and others) are helping build a successful comp environment or not. Right now they're doing a good job in publicizing high skill level PvP and certainly doing a good job in finding good builds & strats. What they're doing less well is creating a situation where the PvP community gets bigger and PvP in this game gets better overall.
Publicize what's broken and stop using it in matches. Refuse to match with people who insist on using broken ****. I PvP'ed on CoH's test server extensively and I'd love to see Mimic get that kind of participation.
They're on the same server as us and in my experience their players are good to game with in PvE and PvP.
Thanks for the compliments bro, we appreciate it. I'm sure we'll meet again, I hope.
Yolandi - Prototype
You're confused, we didn't use any exploits/bugged things.