Well there's your problem. PvP in its current state is not remotely fair on DCs. We have very little CC ourselves, virtually no CC resist, crappy armour, hilarious damage output and an inherent self-heal debuff. Also, you don't get points for healing peeps, and even the devs accept that this is an unfair situation.
A well-geared, PvP specced cleric, played very very well, can just about hold its own against others, but will still melt against a well-geared, well-played...anything else (other than another DC). And to do this you usually have to sacrifice healing for damage.
DCs are incredibly dependent on their group: if the rest of the group is terrible, you're just going to eat dirt over and over again. If the rest of the group isn't bad, and is in fact supportive ("look they're ganking our cleric again: let's combat advantage them"), then a DC can swing the balance.
At worst, if you play your heart out, you can tie up the other team long enough to let the rest of your team do stuff. It's not incredibly satisfying, but hey.
and yet this game doesn't do anything to correct the matter, and its been a very very long time now
Don't you think it's a bit wrong ?
Also I don't know if it's a gear issue (I don't have any enchants yet) but GWF\GF catches up ridiculously fast. My chake/freeze stop them for like a fraction of a second and they run twice as fast. I give up my survivability for CC/range ... but they seem to have counters to all of it and then some. I mean health+def+damage+speed+ignore cc and a self heal on top of it all ... I think it's a bit too much power with no trade off. Or am I missing something?
Well there's your problem. PvP in its current state is not remotely fair on DCs. We have very little CC ourselves, virtually no CC resist, crappy armour, hilarious damage output and an inherent self-heal debuff. Also, you don't get points for healing peeps, and even the devs accept that this is an unfair situation.
Don't you think it's a bit wrong ?
Also I don't know if it's a gear issue (I don't have any enchants yet) but GWF\GF catches up ridiculously fast. My chake/freeze stop them for like a fraction of a second and they run twice as fast. I give up my survivability for CC/range ... but they seem to have counters to all of it and then some. I mean health+def+damage+speed+ignore cc and a self heal on top of it all ... I think it's a bit too much power with no trade off. Or am I missing something?
Your best and only option is to slot all encounters with CC ability, using CC at-will (ray of frost) and plenty of patience. Abilities that only do damage are going to get you killed so very very fast. If you see daggers coming from nowhere teleport until you cannot anymore, mount up, ride to other end of map and leave party.
I think when a game allows a gf+gwf+gwf wrecking ball just roll around a map laughing and not being afraid of anything - something is wrong with the game.
And you didn't answer what they givin up to have all this powers?
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honoraryorangeMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Forget permastealth, why can a TR consistently 25k crit a CW in full T2 with zero prep?
Your best and only option is to slot all encounters with CC ability, using CC at-will (ray of frost) and plenty of patience. Abilities that only do damage are going to get you killed so very very fast. If you see daggers coming from nowhere teleport until you cannot anymore, mount up, ride to other end of map and leave party.
lol, if you see daggers coming from nowhere its already too late, you must anticipate and counter before you see anything at all even if it wastes your powers
I think when a game allows a gf+gwf+gwf wrecking ball just roll around a map laughing and not being afraid of anything - something is wrong with the game.
And you didn't answer what they givin up to have all this powers?
I answered truthfully... they gave up the need of having a cleric. The solution to clerics not using healing potions in the game was to make sure they had to use them by making it so the fighting classes that easily get more kils and drops and in a shorter span of time no longer do.
lol, if you see daggers coming from nowhere its already too late, you must anticipate and counter before you see anything at all even if it wastes your powers
Indeed, this is so very true. And then the rogues claim there is nothing wrong with this.
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bpskibbenheimsMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 210Bounty Hunter
edited June 2013
I love threads like this. It is always humorous to see the aftermath when someone start a discussion and makes it known in the OP that those who disagree are bads.
Game working as intended - PWI needs to make money off Greater Health Stones so if they make Clerics near useless. Groups of GF/GWF/TR can do T2 dungeons with stones and potions. If there are no CWs and DCs to reduce mob damage output, and the other classes can handle it with stones/potions and high end enchants, PWI makes more money.
I should have realized this before I ever posted. Nerf support to the dirt, put out cash shop items that allows the other classes to play without support, and get 45% higher profit margins..... GG PWI
Wait what ... that's not a trade off. That's more power. Where's logic in that. For getting power the trade off is you get more power?
that's the trade they made, well not quite, the trade they made was for getting more power they get healing, damage immunity, and better defense so they can tank the ads that were going after the cleric before (the cleric would have loved to have been able to tank everything that was going after it while also gaining more power)
Not true, GWF's would still be at the top. And what enchants are you referring to? You realize that there are other enchants besides tenebs right? TR armor pen builds are just as strong if not stronger than stacking tenebs for example.
5 man rogue premade enters pvp; instakills whoever they target, takes objectives all over as they cant be seen, then they are focus kill= dead.
TR is so OP its literally a waste of time to play anything else.
Enchants make all the difference. Playing as a CW I can kill a DC, GWF.. bad rogues and not really a GF even the bad ones really. So at current GS of 9.7k I can say the list looks more like:
1-GF
2-TR
3-GWF
4-CW
5-DC
Usually I just kill other CWs..
The difference between fighting a GF, TR & GWF is that a TR will nearly insta gib you out of stealth. A GF can close any gap and knock you prone and kill you before you can stand up. A GWF on the other hand you can kite nearly endlessly. It's a long fight but unless someone else helps them or you miss a dodge they are pretty ineffectual vs a CW.
From the perspective of my GWF CWs are one of the biggest PITA to kill. Can't count how many times they mange to dodge my encounters and leave me with nothing but At wills for 10-12s. I like being the anti-rogue tho.. that is the main advantage to playing my GWF.. Revenge against rogues.
Edit: If I had to make a bet the OP is the player of a rogue and upset there is one class they can't just faceroll.
How are we judging the classes...by k/d ratio, total kills, team contribution, ability to stack with the same class, or ability to hold towers? I can see a different class for pretty much every one of these categories.
5 man rogue premade enters pvp; instakills whoever they target, takes objectives all over as they cant be seen, then they are focus kill= dead.
TR is so OP its literally a waste of time to play anything else.
So Im starting a rogue only guild.
You obviously are clueless about rogues in this game especially with this wild diatribe about all rogue groups. There is only one class they even have a remote chance to insta-kill, that's CW's. Again more misinformation. If people listen to these diatribes about rogues you would think they have 4 dailies, 3 at wills, and 6 Encounter powers.
From the perspective of my GWF CWs are one of the biggest PITA to kill. Can't count how many times they mange to dodge my encounters and leave me with nothing but At wills for 10-12s. I like being the anti-rogue tho.. that is the main advantage to playing my GWF.. Revenge against rogues.
Dodge the encounters of the GF, which has only 2 stuns instead of GWF (3 at all...). Then the GF has nothing more than his at wills for the next 10sec.
The GF isnt immune to CC effects most of the time (GWF:Unstoppable!). The GF doesnt have that same movement speed. The GF is not able to heal himself as GWF (well the GF's daily is a waste of time in PvP for healing).
If you want people to stay for the match end even when you're sitting on a 600-10 score and you've decided to be ***-hats and spawn-camp, you need to give them a reason. Punishing them is not the answer. That's just pouring salt-acid into an already bleeding wound.
Don't you think it's a bit wrong ?
Also I don't know if it's a gear issue (I don't have any enchants yet) but GWF\GF catches up ridiculously fast. My chake/freeze stop them for like a fraction of a second and they run twice as fast. I give up my survivability for CC/range ... but they seem to have counters to all of it and then some. I mean health+def+damage+speed+ignore cc and a self heal on top of it all ... I think it's a bit too much power with no trade off. Or am I missing something?
Well they dont give up much to be honest. As a fellow CW I can give you a few tips: Repel is youre best friend against Rouges and GWFs. TRs are the easiest to kill out of the three, for me at least. Put RoF on tab that will help you to melt rouges down fast, even nerfed its still good. GWFs well even good ones are manageable - just try to hold out until reinforcement from youre team comes, Cw actually can kill a good GWF with great effort on our part but we can do that, with some luck. Of course if enemy support arrives you are toast thats true, seen that happen to me all to often. My personal bane of existence are GFs i have no counter for them only if i see one from afar i can knock down shield with frost ray and may stand a chance if they are less skilled, if not i have 0 chances agains them. I am afraid to face off GF on 1v1 since i know i will end up dead no matter how much effort i put out i cant even stall time with them as i can with GWFs.
Actually if there are any CWs who read this topic; how do you manage GFs? Any and all tips are welcome. I do feel sorry for DCs, i have one myself the only tip i can give move with the team, if you have an actually good CW on team stalk them they have the potential to kill off enemy fast no matter how much you run around, except GF. The once i face off need two or sometimes three people to take them down, some GWFs are the same.
Dodge the encounters of the GF, which has only 2 stuns instead of GWF (3 at all...). Then the GF has nothing more than his at wills for the next 10sec.
The GF isnt immune to CC effects most of the time (GWF:Unstoppable!). The GF doesnt have that same movement speed. The GF is not able to heal himself as GWF (well the GF's daily is a waste of time in PvP for healing).
The reason GWFs are easier for me is due to their telegraphed skills. Once they charge you there is no mistake they will fire off one their encounter skill which i can dodge 80% of the time. Even Unstoppable can be dealt with some running around. It will give me time ether to retreat to my team for support or if they made a mistake after the skill is up shave off a considarable amount off HP before i get away, i may not kill them but that dose not mean i cant make it a goose chase for them. Thats speaking 1v1 of course - 1v2 i am toast.
GFs on the other had are just painful. If its a team fight there is no telling who they will charge once they face you or when they will do it. My so called range is not even that big of a deal for them to close off. They will sacrifice a marginal amount off HP to get to me or some shield. The problem even is not the block ( thou it plays a BIG role). Its how many full rotations of my skills it will take to kill them, I will make a mistake eventually or they will close in or get support and it will take them less then one rotation to finish me off. I am aware that i should not be able to kill a tank easily if at all. But the feeling of sheer hopelessness that i feel at facing even an unskilled GF should not be there, especially for a class that has "Control" in their name.
For rouges i imagine GWF might me tougher to deal with.
Well they dont give up much to be honest. As a fellow CW I can give you a few tips: Repel is youre best friend against Rouges and GWFs. TRs are the easiest to kill out of the three, for me at least. Put RoF on tab that will help you to melt rouges down fast, even nerfed its still good. GWFs well even good ones are manageable - just try to hold out until reinforcement from youre team comes, Cw actually can kill a good GWF with great effort on our part but we can do that, with some luck. Of course if enemy support arrives you are toast thats true, seen that happen to me all to often. My personal bane of existence are GFs i have no counter for them only if i see one from afar i can knock down shield with frost ray and may stand a chance if they are less skilled, if not i have 0 chances agains them. I am afraid to face off GF on 1v1 since i know i will end up dead no matter how much effort i put out i cant even stall time with them as i can with GWFs.
Actually if there are any CWs who read this topic; how do you manage GFs? Any and all tips are welcome. I do feel sorry for DCs, i have one myself the only tip i can give move with the team, if you have an actually good CW on team stalk them they have the potential to kill off enemy fast no matter how much you run around, except GF. The once i face off need two or sometimes three people to take them down, some GWFs are the same.
Hit that GF with EF,repel and then knock him down with ice knife. Proceed to mount up and flee to fetch enforcements.
*edit* Love this bugged forum, making a post and than only the first few words are posted.
Well there's your problem. PvP in its current state is not remotely fair on DCs. We have very little CC ourselves, virtually no CC resist, crappy armour, hilarious damage output and an inherent self-heal debuff. Also, you don't get points for healing peeps, and even the devs accept that this is an unfair situation.
The DC isn't that bad in PvP, it just needs more "thinking" than some other classes. It all depends on what path you choose with your build.
Comments
and yet this game doesn't do anything to correct the matter, and its been a very very long time now
Also I don't know if it's a gear issue (I don't have any enchants yet) but GWF\GF catches up ridiculously fast. My chake/freeze stop them for like a fraction of a second and they run twice as fast. I give up my survivability for CC/range ... but they seem to have counters to all of it and then some. I mean health+def+damage+speed+ignore cc and a self heal on top of it all ... I think it's a bit too much power with no trade off. Or am I missing something?
The joys of playing a DC in PvP...
Your best and only option is to slot all encounters with CC ability, using CC at-will (ray of frost) and plenty of patience. Abilities that only do damage are going to get you killed so very very fast. If you see daggers coming from nowhere teleport until you cannot anymore, mount up, ride to other end of map and leave party.
And you didn't answer what they givin up to have all this powers?
lol, if you see daggers coming from nowhere its already too late, you must anticipate and counter before you see anything at all even if it wastes your powers
I answered truthfully... they gave up the need of having a cleric. The solution to clerics not using healing potions in the game was to make sure they had to use them by making it so the fighting classes that easily get more kils and drops and in a shorter span of time no longer do.
Indeed, this is so very true. And then the rogues claim there is nothing wrong with this.
I should have realized this before I ever posted. Nerf support to the dirt, put out cash shop items that allows the other classes to play without support, and get 45% higher profit margins..... GG PWI
that's the trade they made, well not quite, the trade they made was for getting more power they get healing, damage immunity, and better defense so they can tank the ads that were going after the cleric before (the cleric would have loved to have been able to tank everything that was going after it while also gaining more power)
5 man rogue premade enters pvp; instakills whoever they target, takes objectives all over as they cant be seen, then they are focus kill= dead.
TR is so OP its literally a waste of time to play anything else.
So Im starting a rogue only guild.
1-GF
2-TR
3-GWF
4-CW
5-DC
Usually I just kill other CWs..
The difference between fighting a GF, TR & GWF is that a TR will nearly insta gib you out of stealth. A GF can close any gap and knock you prone and kill you before you can stand up. A GWF on the other hand you can kite nearly endlessly. It's a long fight but unless someone else helps them or you miss a dodge they are pretty ineffectual vs a CW.
From the perspective of my GWF CWs are one of the biggest PITA to kill. Can't count how many times they mange to dodge my encounters and leave me with nothing but At wills for 10-12s. I like being the anti-rogue tho.. that is the main advantage to playing my GWF.. Revenge against rogues.
Edit: If I had to make a bet the OP is the player of a rogue and upset there is one class they can't just faceroll.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
60 GF(14.5GS) Cersei
60 CW(12.4GS) Shadis
60 TR(12.2GS) Dijkstra
60 GWF(12.2GS) Winnowill
45 DC(WIP) Daenerys
You obviously are clueless about rogues in this game especially with this wild diatribe about all rogue groups. There is only one class they even have a remote chance to insta-kill, that's CW's. Again more misinformation. If people listen to these diatribes about rogues you would think they have 4 dailies, 3 at wills, and 6 Encounter powers.
your point is mood
Dodge the encounters of the GF, which has only 2 stuns instead of GWF (3 at all...). Then the GF has nothing more than his at wills for the next 10sec.
The GF isnt immune to CC effects most of the time (GWF:Unstoppable!). The GF doesnt have that same movement speed. The GF is not able to heal himself as GWF (well the GF's daily is a waste of time in PvP for healing).
And here is the reason:
Well they dont give up much to be honest. As a fellow CW I can give you a few tips: Repel is youre best friend against Rouges and GWFs. TRs are the easiest to kill out of the three, for me at least. Put RoF on tab that will help you to melt rouges down fast, even nerfed its still good. GWFs well even good ones are manageable - just try to hold out until reinforcement from youre team comes, Cw actually can kill a good GWF with great effort on our part but we can do that, with some luck. Of course if enemy support arrives you are toast thats true, seen that happen to me all to often. My personal bane of existence are GFs i have no counter for them only if i see one from afar i can knock down shield with frost ray and may stand a chance if they are less skilled, if not i have 0 chances agains them. I am afraid to face off GF on 1v1 since i know i will end up dead no matter how much effort i put out i cant even stall time with them as i can with GWFs.
Actually if there are any CWs who read this topic; how do you manage GFs? Any and all tips are welcome. I do feel sorry for DCs, i have one myself the only tip i can give move with the team, if you have an actually good CW on team stalk them they have the potential to kill off enemy fast no matter how much you run around, except GF. The once i face off need two or sometimes three people to take them down, some GWFs are the same.
The reason GWFs are easier for me is due to their telegraphed skills. Once they charge you there is no mistake they will fire off one their encounter skill which i can dodge 80% of the time. Even Unstoppable can be dealt with some running around. It will give me time ether to retreat to my team for support or if they made a mistake after the skill is up shave off a considarable amount off HP before i get away, i may not kill them but that dose not mean i cant make it a goose chase for them. Thats speaking 1v1 of course - 1v2 i am toast.
GFs on the other had are just painful. If its a team fight there is no telling who they will charge once they face you or when they will do it. My so called range is not even that big of a deal for them to close off. They will sacrifice a marginal amount off HP to get to me or some shield. The problem even is not the block ( thou it plays a BIG role). Its how many full rotations of my skills it will take to kill them, I will make a mistake eventually or they will close in or get support and it will take them less then one rotation to finish me off. I am aware that i should not be able to kill a tank easily if at all. But the feeling of sheer hopelessness that i feel at facing even an unskilled GF should not be there, especially for a class that has "Control" in their name.
For rouges i imagine GWF might me tougher to deal with.
Hit that GF with EF,repel and then knock him down with ice knife. Proceed to mount up and flee to fetch enforcements.
Fixed.
Ok, I know about this don't feed the troll thingy, but yeah, sometimes you have to.
The DC isn't that bad in PvP, it just needs more "thinking" than some other classes. It all depends on what path you choose with your build.
You can make kills and get #1 as Cleric
PvP Cleric lvl 60:
http://vergeten.org/image/DC-PvP.jpg
Damage:
http://vergeten.org/image/DC-HoF.jpg
Doing 25k+ damage (with crit) to a GWF is not bad, I can't call this "hilarious" (well.. except for me to see others getting one shotted lol).
A friend of mine plays DPS cleric too, they're capable of respectable damage but really susceptible to being annihilated by everyone else.
Perfect list but you're missing GWF, either you haven't seen or played with any competent ones, or you're trolling yourself.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
Well I use more a Hybrid build leaning to the DPS side, I find healing with a lot of DPS perfect for PvE and PvP
Now you are trolling, you have DC's on this "OP" list and the GWF isn't? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
to Quote Forrest.
Stupid is as stupid does.